DreamWeaver
Legend
Interesting it seems orally there is a different effect... I am thinking maybe switch back and forth between TD and Formex, if nothing else it would give a really good opportunity to compare the two.
IBE Formex - Oral Formestane MCPE
- Thread starter celc5
- Start date
learn
Well-known member
must use a digital scale to compare next time
kidding bro
I like the log and rep you cause you need them not to make good on anything
PS you have more reps
buster0371
Well-known member
i might get me some formex today, run it, than wait a bit than run td form.
celc5
Well-known member
Day 16
DAdams,
Agreed. Over reaction on my part and I don't hold any grudges. At the same time, no matter how eloquently you defended the post, I'm sure you still understand that a "placebo" accusation will instigate a defensive response.
DreamWeaver,
sounds like a good idea brotha. I didn't think your EOD plan would work very well, but you seem to really have it down pat. Looking forward to your feedback.
AZ,
Understood.
Learn,
You make me laugh on every board more than anyone else.... maybe even more than RA used to back when he posted a lot :laugh:
Buster,
as long as you track body comp results, you are going to be happy either way IMO. I highly suggest picking up a very affordable caliper on NP and using Invalid Link Removed for your skinfold calculations. You'll get pretty good at doing the 3point test if you measure weekly or about twice per month.
Day 16
Friday, April 10, 2009
1 Cap Formex 8am
1 Cap Formex Noon
1 Cap Formex 4 or 5 pm
Ham/Core workout was pretty brutal today. I was disappointed with my 5x5 dead results, but not because of strength deficit. Effing grip kept slipping, which is a rarity for me since I have a rediculously dry skin condition. Also, I workout at a fruitcake gym so chalk is a no no. It's all bodybuilding and flexing in the mirror 1/2 way through every set. Otherwise, all the other movements are progressing 5 pounds here, 1 or 2 reps there.
Overall mood has been really good the past 2 or 3 days. I'm sleeping more than the puny 7 hours that I was initially getting... more like 8.5 hrs now and IMO it's a bit better quality sleep with a sleep aide stack. Also, a family member that has been getting a lot of my attention has returned home from the hospital. So I'm a happy camper
No change to note in terms of pump, muscle hardness, libido (normal, not decreased by any means), or vascularity. But, the boys are hanging a bit lower, sort of like they do with consistent dosing of testofen at maybe about 800mg/day.
DAdams,
Agreed. Over reaction on my part and I don't hold any grudges. At the same time, no matter how eloquently you defended the post, I'm sure you still understand that a "placebo" accusation will instigate a defensive response.
DreamWeaver,
sounds like a good idea brotha. I didn't think your EOD plan would work very well, but you seem to really have it down pat. Looking forward to your feedback.
AZ,
Understood.
Learn,
You make me laugh on every board more than anyone else.... maybe even more than RA used to back when he posted a lot :laugh:
Buster,
as long as you track body comp results, you are going to be happy either way IMO. I highly suggest picking up a very affordable caliper on NP and using Invalid Link Removed for your skinfold calculations. You'll get pretty good at doing the 3point test if you measure weekly or about twice per month.
Day 16
Friday, April 10, 2009
1 Cap Formex 8am
1 Cap Formex Noon
1 Cap Formex 4 or 5 pm
Ham/Core workout was pretty brutal today. I was disappointed with my 5x5 dead results, but not because of strength deficit. Effing grip kept slipping, which is a rarity for me since I have a rediculously dry skin condition. Also, I workout at a fruitcake gym so chalk is a no no. It's all bodybuilding and flexing in the mirror 1/2 way through every set. Otherwise, all the other movements are progressing 5 pounds here, 1 or 2 reps there.
Overall mood has been really good the past 2 or 3 days. I'm sleeping more than the puny 7 hours that I was initially getting... more like 8.5 hrs now and IMO it's a bit better quality sleep with a sleep aide stack. Also, a family member that has been getting a lot of my attention has returned home from the hospital. So I'm a happy camper
No change to note in terms of pump, muscle hardness, libido (normal, not decreased by any means), or vascularity. But, the boys are hanging a bit lower, sort of like they do with consistent dosing of testofen at maybe about 800mg/day.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
I don't understand why the defensive position though. If your mind is making things happen in your body that other do not physiologically benefit from.. I don't see the down side. I just think a bit differently than most though. Placebo or not, if your mind says something is working, it is working. Considering your brain controls hormone release, this is not a bad thing.
Adams
celc5
Well-known member
Thanks brotha!
Don't play dumb. You know exactly why I was offended. If someone claimed that strength gains on Epistane were placebo you would get defensive real fast. It was a blatant attack on my credibility and I'm not going to ignore that type of instigation.
Here's what happens with the TD formestane application: within about 1-2 minutes increased vascularity (regardless of whether it's the carrier or formestane), 3-5 minutes muscle hardening and definition slightly increases, 5-10 minutes involuntary unprovoked raging boners. 20-30 minutes, increased aggression and a pissed off attitude. I've caught myself grunting a few times with a hefty dosage (maybe 100mg) and notice a bit of increased heart rate/palpitations. These are the symptoms that proceed TD form application, and I never once claimed an instant hormonal flux as there would be no way for me to support that claim. I don't doubt one bit that it takes time for aromatase inhibition to occur enough to control estrogen and potentially boost test.
The issue is that Natty got defensive when those symptomatic things aren't occuring with Formex. Furthermore, he explained why AI activity doesn't occur rapidly. Then followed up with "euphoric" claims with a 25mg dose. That's double talk, and an exaggerated claim at the same time.
The more you instigate me, the more real I'm gonna get.
I weigh in on an empty first thing in the morning. Then I measure chest, abs, and thigh skinfolds 5 times each with a caliper. I cross off the highest and lowest measure for each area, and then average the 3 remaining measures. I plug in those averages into the website link that I posted above for Buster. At first it's a bit awkward, but gets easier and faster the more you do it.
LakeMountD
Doctor Science
Okay I rarely post here because I am very busy but I have read this entire thread because some people e-mailed me about some commotion. I wanted to get a true take on everything before I really posted. I do feel you have an unusual defensive position towards Formex. Honestly, if you weren't noticing much from Formex I would completely understand. There were people who didn't like Epistane, X-Dream, and the rest of the product line. Heck I don't like a lot of products that others do, not a problem at all. But almost every post you mention transdermal form and almost every post you knock Formex somehow. Others don't seem to be having the same experience as you so I am a bit confused here as well.
The above quote is one of the main reasons I am posting. 3-5 minute muscle hardness?! I am a doctoral candidate and I have worked with transdermal formulations, mainly patches that have fairly quick delivery systems. However, no steroidal compound is going to change vascularity in 3 minutes. If so then we need to contact the Nobel committee ASAP. The calculations we used to have to do involving flux, permeability coeff, and other constants was ridiculous and most of the time merely educational but here is an example of how things absorb using real numbers:
**I don't feel like digging right now but found data on equine skin that gave permeability coefficients and equine skin is much thinner than ours. Kp 1.138e-4 cm/min = 1.138 um/min --> 1 min/1.138 um * 20 um = 17.6 minutes. Maybe you are a horse or are testing it on one? lol
But honestly you can barely get into the skin that fast let alone have it act at its receptor that quickly! I have even found studies in human skin showing 10^-9 delivery without dmso. Obviously dmso can be used to enhance the 1-^-9 value but you shouldn't be using dmso anyways.
IBE
Board Sponsor
0g1
New member
Dude, either you were taking Viagra or putting formestane on your d1ck.celc5 said:
Lost all respect for your log after you said you have sex while on it. No serious body builder is going to be ejaculating while trying to build muscle. What's the point of increasing test and protein intake if you're just going to spooge it out? I know this product is supposed to be a libido increaser. But you're decreasing your libido by having sex.cel5 said:
AZMIDLYF
Legend
Lost all respect for your log after you said you have sex while on it. No serious body builder is going to be ejaculating while trying to build muscle. What's the point of increasing test and protein intake if you're just going to spooge it out? I know this product is supposed to be a libido increaser. But you're decreasing your libido by having sex.
WTF!!
WTF!!
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
Look here Mr. Celc5. You don't know me, and I don't know you, so take a step back there turbo. I do not get defensive if people attack any product in our line. I bring the science of why, or why it is or isn't working for them. I explain reason and subsequent factors playing into the individual situation. Your demeanor in this thread shows a candor that is useless for respect I was not attacking you in any way, neither was Natty. Your defensiveness is reminiscent of adolescence. I will in effect step out of the tread, and wish you the best on the rest of your run of the uplifted claims of Formex.
Adams
celc5
Well-known member
BigMoe,
you're welcome. I found that site through a simple google search. But I'm not the only one, others have recommended it as well.
LakeMount,
Although you disagree with me, you've maintained a neutral position. I appreciate that. Most of my past experience was with TD. So when asked about Formestane, I went to my past experience to offer honest feedback. At this point, I've developed a feel for Formex and can more honestly answer questions regarding that delivery system now.
IBE,
I see your point. My bad.
Og,
No comment.
DAdams,
this issue was essentially handled discretely via pm by one of your colleagues before you decided to reinstigate. Glad you won't be posting any more.
AZ,
I suspect you were being funny... but on a serious note, people frequently stack AI's and cortisol blockers in "nha" stacks and seem to like the results.
Just a side note, I have nothing against any particular company. The only other IBE product that I've used was Xforce. I honestly like that it's a flexible stim that doesn't make me jittery and doesn't have a defined crash. I felt the need to say that since we've been butting heads here. I'm still going to do my best to report on Formex, and not cloud my thoughts with any outside influence.
you're welcome. I found that site through a simple google search. But I'm not the only one, others have recommended it as well.
LakeMount,
Although you disagree with me, you've maintained a neutral position. I appreciate that. Most of my past experience was with TD. So when asked about Formestane, I went to my past experience to offer honest feedback. At this point, I've developed a feel for Formex and can more honestly answer questions regarding that delivery system now.
IBE,
I see your point. My bad.
Og,
No comment.
DAdams,
this issue was essentially handled discretely via pm by one of your colleagues before you decided to reinstigate. Glad you won't be posting any more.
AZ,
I suspect you were being funny... but on a serious note, people frequently stack AI's and cortisol blockers in "nha" stacks and seem to like the results.
Just a side note, I have nothing against any particular company. The only other IBE product that I've used was Xforce. I honestly like that it's a flexible stim that doesn't make me jittery and doesn't have a defined crash. I felt the need to say that since we've been butting heads here. I'm still going to do my best to report on Formex, and not cloud my thoughts with any outside influence.
LakeMountD
Doctor Science
It's cool, I wasn't trying to knock you I am more trying to prove the placebo effect with a lot of these things. Not saying TD Form doesn't work, but I am saying that placebo has it's hands everywhere and applying a TD can get the catechols pumping and can lead to changes in vascularity. I will say this too, that Formestane MCPE (Formex) definitely begins to show greater effects later on because of its high lipophilicity. It gets stored in body fat and has a slow released component to it, especially as you increase lipolysis through whatever means necessary. This has been demonstrated with multiply 17a cyclic ether formulations in estradiol (birth control) and the effect is the same in this respect.
This is what you want, you don't want a large drop in aromatase for a short period of time but a smaller drop for a prolonged period of time
.
celc5
Well-known member
Day 17
LakeMount,
The timetable that you described might make Formex an option for the "post pct" timeframe in a bridge. I was absolutely convinced that rebound gyno was BS, until it happened to me like 6 or 8 weeks after completing a SD pct. Formex might be able to control estrogen in hopes of preventing the rebound effect as an application of your thoery. Hopefully, I've interpretted correctly to draw that conclusion
AZ,
Good timing bro :laugh:
Day 17
Saturday, April 11, 2009
1 cap Formex 8am
1 cap Formex Noon
1 cap Formex 4pm
Today was a nice upper body workout. Nothing spectacular to point out other than I was still able to finish strong at the end. Again, maybe 5 pounds here and 1 or 2 reps there compared before I started the log.
Bedroom performance has been consistantly enhanced and today was no different. Stamina was there, even when my girl had to pee. Fellas, can we get a "no peeing" rule once the clothes are off? :rant: Libido continues to be normal.
Since I'm impressed with the body comp results, I should post a quick sample diet from this week (which is a bit different than the initial plan). Protein and carb approximations are at the end. And since I'm just going from the top of my head, I'm not counting the protein from a carb source such as pasta. The times are approximations as well. My diet varies from day to day with Turkey, Salmon, occasional Steak, etc... but I try to keep the macros close.
8am 1.5 scoops ATW, 1/2 cup Quaker Quick Oats (30/30)
11am 2 slices low carb bread, 1/2 can Tuna (15/20)
2pm 2-3 Lean Pork Chops, 1/2 cup Rice, 1/2 cup Broccoli (40/50)
5pm (preworkout) 1 scoop Twinlab whey, 1/2 scoop Cytogainer (25/10)
6pm (postworkout) 1.5 scoops ON whey, 1 cup Tropicana Fruit Drink (30/30)
7pm 1 Chicken Breast, 1/2 cup Pasta, 1/2 cup green beans (40/50)
10pm 4 egg whites, 1 whole egg, 3 slices turkey breast, 1/2 orange (25/25)
Totals approximately 205 pro (estimated from meat, powder, and eggs only) and 215 carbs as listed above. I'd guess fat is around 50-80g/day including fish oils with a few meals. Fitday would probably put this diet around 240 or 250g protein if I were to guess.
Note: when my day carries out in the appropriate fashion, I get in an 8th meal with about 30g protein and 20g carbs somewhere post workout.
LakeMount,
The timetable that you described might make Formex an option for the "post pct" timeframe in a bridge. I was absolutely convinced that rebound gyno was BS, until it happened to me like 6 or 8 weeks after completing a SD pct. Formex might be able to control estrogen in hopes of preventing the rebound effect as an application of your thoery. Hopefully, I've interpretted correctly to draw that conclusion
AZ,
Good timing bro :laugh:
Day 17
Saturday, April 11, 2009
1 cap Formex 8am
1 cap Formex Noon
1 cap Formex 4pm
Today was a nice upper body workout. Nothing spectacular to point out other than I was still able to finish strong at the end. Again, maybe 5 pounds here and 1 or 2 reps there compared before I started the log.
Bedroom performance has been consistantly enhanced and today was no different. Stamina was there, even when my girl had to pee. Fellas, can we get a "no peeing" rule once the clothes are off? :rant: Libido continues to be normal.
Since I'm impressed with the body comp results, I should post a quick sample diet from this week (which is a bit different than the initial plan). Protein and carb approximations are at the end. And since I'm just going from the top of my head, I'm not counting the protein from a carb source such as pasta. The times are approximations as well. My diet varies from day to day with Turkey, Salmon, occasional Steak, etc... but I try to keep the macros close.
8am 1.5 scoops ATW, 1/2 cup Quaker Quick Oats (30/30)
11am 2 slices low carb bread, 1/2 can Tuna (15/20)
2pm 2-3 Lean Pork Chops, 1/2 cup Rice, 1/2 cup Broccoli (40/50)
5pm (preworkout) 1 scoop Twinlab whey, 1/2 scoop Cytogainer (25/10)
6pm (postworkout) 1.5 scoops ON whey, 1 cup Tropicana Fruit Drink (30/30)
7pm 1 Chicken Breast, 1/2 cup Pasta, 1/2 cup green beans (40/50)
10pm 4 egg whites, 1 whole egg, 3 slices turkey breast, 1/2 orange (25/25)
Totals approximately 205 pro (estimated from meat, powder, and eggs only) and 215 carbs as listed above. I'd guess fat is around 50-80g/day including fish oils with a few meals. Fitday would probably put this diet around 240 or 250g protein if I were to guess.
Note: when my day carries out in the appropriate fashion, I get in an 8th meal with about 30g protein and 20g carbs somewhere post workout.
GotTest
Active member
You must be insinuating I only use premixed carriers (ie Penetrate, PP's Topical, etc).
You've completely forgotten the wonderful world of "Homebrew".
buster0371
Well-known member
CELC5, cytogainer before you workout? doesnt cytogainer have a good amount of fat in it that makes the absorbtion of the protein slow? also, i heard protein ingestion pre workout can inhibit testosterone release. is this true?
celc5
Well-known member
5g fat for a 4 scoop serving. I take 1/2 scoop so that should be 1/8 of 5 g which equals .62 grams fat (yes, I had to use the calcuator
) I'd like to think that's inconsequential but I can't back that up. I just like it for the 10g of complex carbs (1/8 of 80) that I can conveniently throw in a shake at the end of a work day. I sip on it during my drive to the gym from work. I've tried working out with and without preworkout snacks. I couldn't tell you the difference either way bro. Most science says to ingest a preworkout meal to prevent muscle catolism, but your test inhibition theory could be just as credible. I dunno on that one brotha :dunno:
buster0371
Well-known member
celc5
Well-known member
I started at 2 caps and then bumped to 3 after a few days. Since it took some time to show effects, I'm not real sure that bumping to 3 caps made a difference. Most of the way, I think I've dosed 3 caps on workout days and 2 caps on off days. I'm gonna count what's left tomorrow and decide if I have enough to try 4 caps for a few days for experimentation sake.
I've tried both with and without food. IMO I didn't think it made a difference. If my understanding of the delivery system is remotely correct, my opinion is that it won't matter because of the way it's absorbed. If anyone ever came to a conclusion on the with or without question, please feel free to share opinions and suggestions.
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
Formex should be taken with a fatty meal. :burger:
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
According to LMD:
LakeMountD said:
Irish Cannon
Legend
I know you said you had issues with gyno rebound from a Havoc/SD bridge...I used Epidrol back in the day to rid my gyno and it worked wonders. I recently had a flare up due to ATD rebound, about a year after I got rid of my gyno with Epidrol.
I used Havoc the last three weeks, gyno reduced in size about three weeks in, but then came back to normal size a few days later...I'm switching to Epidrol tomorrow. I'll keep you posted on it.
I used Havoc the last three weeks, gyno reduced in size about three weeks in, but then came back to normal size a few days later...I'm switching to Epidrol tomorrow. I'll keep you posted on it.
buster0371
Well-known member
nice
Big3upgrade
Member
Great fcking log Celc5! Great to see some one thats experience with form running this log.
learn
Well-known member
thanks man I will prob start wit 2 and go from there
don't want to waste a good thing if it works for ME at 2 thanks thats what I need to know
thanks for the added info
rocking mine on MONDAY
only on SOM
buster0371
Well-known member
celc5
Well-known member
Day 18
Natty,
thanks for the info. I misunderstood some of the explanations thinking that MCPE absorbs similarly to fat, and not necessarily enhanced with fat. LMD's quote clears it up for me. Thanks bringing that info to my attention.
Big3,
Thank you for the compliment.
Irish,
is gyno not an unpredictable beast? I thought for sure that NovedexXt took care of my gyno as soon as it started and it popped back up afterwards. Same issue occured with Torem/form stacked last winter. And unfortunately, over the past 3 days, sensitivity has actually increased with Formex. I don't think the lump is any worse by any means. I'd guess it's probably some sort of response to a bit of hormonal flux :dunno: Lucky for me, I only have a super mild case and it's only an occasional nuisance.
Day 18
"Mini Update"
I have enough caps to finish at 4/day for the next 3 or 4 days. I suspect that I have a few more caps than I initially thought because of missing evening doses while tending to family issues. So, it should stretch out the log a few more days, and at least give us a brief look at what difference 4 caps would make.
Natty,
thanks for the info. I misunderstood some of the explanations thinking that MCPE absorbs similarly to fat, and not necessarily enhanced with fat. LMD's quote clears it up for me. Thanks bringing that info to my attention.
Big3,
Thank you for the compliment.
Irish,
is gyno not an unpredictable beast? I thought for sure that NovedexXt took care of my gyno as soon as it started and it popped back up afterwards. Same issue occured with Torem/form stacked last winter. And unfortunately, over the past 3 days, sensitivity has actually increased with Formex. I don't think the lump is any worse by any means. I'd guess it's probably some sort of response to a bit of hormonal flux :dunno: Lucky for me, I only have a super mild case and it's only an occasional nuisance.
Day 18
"Mini Update"
I have enough caps to finish at 4/day for the next 3 or 4 days. I suspect that I have a few more caps than I initially thought because of missing evening doses while tending to family issues. So, it should stretch out the log a few more days, and at least give us a brief look at what difference 4 caps would make.
ryaroberts
Active member
im very curious to see your final review of how the capsule form compares to transdermal.
buster0371
Well-known member
^
NICE! looking foward to see the results 4 a day will yield!
NICE! looking foward to see the results 4 a day will yield!
AK32408
IBE/PHF Rep
Sounds good my man ! Put the Formex to the test !
I'm doing 1 in the morning and 2 pre-workout right now and I think that's my sweet spot for the dosing. I'll bump it to 4 caps after this bottle is finished and I'll be starting a new workout.
LakeMountD
Doctor Science
Celc,
I wouldn't really recommend eating before a workout. The higher the insulin the less energy you are going to have. We have gone into this in great detail in many of the classes that I have had in the past. Insulin is very obviously anabolic, there is no doubting that, but it aims at lowering blood sugar, which is the last thing you want when you are working out. You want glucagon levels elevated while lifting. The amount of muscle "lost" from amino acid metabolism is minimal and is much less than what will be days following the workout. Never understood why so many people were worreid about catabolism during a workout, no matter what you do you are going to be catabolic, since the term catabolism merely means breaking down, whether that be glycogen in the liver/kidneys, or gluconeogensis from muscle. Amino acid metabolism makes up ~25% of glucose production from gluconeogenesis, which if I remember correctly gluconeogenesis only makes up 20% or so of glucose production. So 25% of 20% is 5%, a very minimal factor when only working out for an hour.
As for my numbers above on permeability coeff. don't take that to heart, there is so much more that goes into all of this stuff, it was just to prove a point that it takes time for anything to get through the skin. Really flux values are better to use since they take into account a lot of other variables. Maybe one day I will do a full on calculation with all this stuff lol, but it is tough compiling the data
.
PhysiqueFreak
Member
^^ good info on the insulin... I'll definitely be keeping that in mind
LakeMountD
Doctor Science
Yeah as far as staying lean you might as well skip the meals that are really close to your workouts. Glucose is impermeable for the most part to muscle cells without GLUT4 transporters that are upregulated by insulin. So if you have no insulin around, muscle tissue tends to use products that it already has around, usually fat, but no glucose from the outside.
There could be more to it, I will be the first to admit that I do not have a PhD in nutrition, but I am merely stating the details of what I have learned. Insulin may be anabolic but you don't really want anabolism while you are working out, doesn't really make much sense to do this.
celc5
Well-known member
LMD, do you feel that's such an issue with complex carbs or low GI carbs as well? Theoretically, there's supposed to be less insulin spike as opposed to "faster" simpler sources. ...I bet you end up going round and round with this topic every time someone brings it up LOL :laugh:
Day 18
1 Cap Formex 8am
1 Cap Noon
1 Cap 4pm
1 cap 8pm
I took skinfolds and weighed in yesterday morning on an empty stomach. I should have Day 18 (yesterday's) numbers updated this evening to show any body comp changes.
By just estimating, it looks as if there's a small but steady leaning effect. The only thing I'm curious about is that the chest skinfolds are only moving at the same pace as the abs and thigh. For example, abs and thigh usually decrease by about .5-1mm every 10 days or so, while the chest usually drops by 1-2mm per week with an AI.
I wish I had the exact skifolds from past AI runs, but I only have the total bf% in my notebook. So I can't give exact data to give a side by side comparison for each site.
Sleep patterns have improved but are still mildly interrupted.
Gyno lump size is unchanged but sharp pains, that I haven't felt in about 2 months, are occassionally popping back up.
Sexual performance was pretty good all weekend. I was happy to be at the top of my game for 4 or 5 rounds between Saturday and Sunday. Libido was unchanged.
I feel like I have a slight increase in overall hardness today considering that it's been 48 hours since my last workout. That could possibly be a positive effect from Formex.
Day 18
1 Cap Formex 8am
1 Cap Noon
1 Cap 4pm
1 cap 8pm
I took skinfolds and weighed in yesterday morning on an empty stomach. I should have Day 18 (yesterday's) numbers updated this evening to show any body comp changes.
By just estimating, it looks as if there's a small but steady leaning effect. The only thing I'm curious about is that the chest skinfolds are only moving at the same pace as the abs and thigh. For example, abs and thigh usually decrease by about .5-1mm every 10 days or so, while the chest usually drops by 1-2mm per week with an AI.
I wish I had the exact skifolds from past AI runs, but I only have the total bf% in my notebook. So I can't give exact data to give a side by side comparison for each site.
Sleep patterns have improved but are still mildly interrupted.
Gyno lump size is unchanged but sharp pains, that I haven't felt in about 2 months, are occassionally popping back up.
Sexual performance was pretty good all weekend. I was happy to be at the top of my game for 4 or 5 rounds between Saturday and Sunday. Libido was unchanged.
I feel like I have a slight increase in overall hardness today considering that it's been 48 hours since my last workout. That could possibly be a positive effect from Formex.
AK32408
IBE/PHF Rep
I'm going to be trying 1 morning dose, 2 pre-workout and 1 before bed when I bump my doses up.. Have you tried that yet ? 2 caps pre-workout seems to be the best dosing method I've found that works for me the best so far.
LakeMountD
Doctor Science
It is really hard to say honestly. I mean to say that a particular GI or GL number will give a particular response at just the muscle is difficult to quantify. Anytime you have a lower GI carb (and for that matter GL has to be low too) you are going to get a much nicer insulin release than a rapid spike caused by high GI, but you are still running into somewhat of the same problem.
To me it just isn't worth the added benefit of doing so and seems more detrimental than anything else. You are preventing lipolysis (fat breakdown) by having insulin around. Insulin is anabolic to not only muscle but fat as well. They both work through GLUT4 transporters so if you are in an anabolic state at the muscle (with insulin) than you are at an anabolic state with fat too (fat production increasing). See what I mean? So while you are working out you are going to have less energy to perform lifts and you won't be burning as much fat.
AK32408
IBE/PHF Rep
Good post LMD !
M16
IBE Rep
LMD please get at me more about this eating thing before I work out....I work out right after my first meal of the day due to time constraints...So thats after fasting for 8 hours while sleeping...
Also Formex Log from me will start monday. I'll be running 2 per day along side my normal HRT doseage...No stranger to legit AI's so I will be able to tell if this is working or not...My usual AI of choice is up Upjohns Aromasin...So the Formex will be taking Upjohns place for now.
Also Formex Log from me will start monday. I'll be running 2 per day along side my normal HRT doseage...No stranger to legit AI's so I will be able to tell if this is working or not...My usual AI of choice is up Upjohns Aromasin...So the Formex will be taking Upjohns place for now.
celc5
Well-known member
Day 20
AK,
I personally found that dosing specifically for preworkout usage hasn't made a difference. I didn't find a difference when dosing 1 preworkout or 2 caps preworkout either. I haven't tried 3 caps preworkout. I think it's more of a slow steady build up, so IMO spreading out caps worked better for me.
Day 20
brief update
I had a bit of blurred vision/dry eyes with the 4 cap dosage. No other changes to report with the increased dosage. This is a side that I HAVE experienced before with AI's, so it's not unexpected. I expect vision to return to normal within 2-3 days of stopping the AI, as it usually does.
AK,
I personally found that dosing specifically for preworkout usage hasn't made a difference. I didn't find a difference when dosing 1 preworkout or 2 caps preworkout either. I haven't tried 3 caps preworkout. I think it's more of a slow steady build up, so IMO spreading out caps worked better for me.
Day 20
brief update
I had a bit of blurred vision/dry eyes with the 4 cap dosage. No other changes to report with the increased dosage. This is a side that I HAVE experienced before with AI's, so it's not unexpected. I expect vision to return to normal within 2-3 days of stopping the AI, as it usually does.
celc5
Well-known member
Day 20
Learn, agreed. I'm not worried. A lot of the theories that surround the blurred vision phenomena suggest that decreasing estrogen is the cause. That may be true, but I suspect what happens is that chemistry of the enzymes in my tears is what changes.
The reason I say this is that a clean pair contacts almost always gets rid of the haze. Same thing goes if I flush my eyes with drops a few times. It's also less evident on rainy days when moisture in the air is pretty high, like today.
Just a theory
Day 20
1 cap Formex 8am
1 cap Formex Noon
1 cap Formex 5pm
1 cap Formex 6pm
I ran Formex with Xforce today just to see how the combo would work. I took 1 cap of each 1 hour preworkout and 1 cap of each immediately preworkout. I definately got 1-2 more reps than expected on a few lifts. Today is the first day during the log that I suspect Formex may have a played a role in strength increase.
I didn't have any aggression to note today. But drive to get the extra rep was there. And that's after 2 brutal work days to start off the week. I've done a weeks worth of work in 2 days, but still felt motivated to get to the gym. I'm pleased with that for sure.
So side note, Xforce and Formex should stack well IMO.
DHT hasn't been mentioned much at all during this log. I've had no agression, no acne (maybe even clearer than usual), and no shedding. I have some thin spots upstairs and I shed pretty bad with trione or 6oxo... thank goodness I'm blessed with a body that is irresistable to women despite my hairline :laugh:
Joints are fine. Believe when I say I've had joint issues in the past. 1 reconstructed elbow, 1 dislocated shoulder, and no joint pain in 20 days. I even added weight to dips today for the first time in a long time with no elbow or shoulder pain. Formex is not hard on my joints. Novedex XT and 6oxo are extremely hard on my joints in comparison. Hyperdrol, TD form, and AX aPCT don't affect my joints either IIRC.
Learn, agreed. I'm not worried. A lot of the theories that surround the blurred vision phenomena suggest that decreasing estrogen is the cause. That may be true, but I suspect what happens is that chemistry of the enzymes in my tears is what changes.
The reason I say this is that a clean pair contacts almost always gets rid of the haze. Same thing goes if I flush my eyes with drops a few times. It's also less evident on rainy days when moisture in the air is pretty high, like today.
Just a theory
Day 20
1 cap Formex 8am
1 cap Formex Noon
1 cap Formex 5pm
1 cap Formex 6pm
I ran Formex with Xforce today just to see how the combo would work. I took 1 cap of each 1 hour preworkout and 1 cap of each immediately preworkout. I definately got 1-2 more reps than expected on a few lifts. Today is the first day during the log that I suspect Formex may have a played a role in strength increase.
I didn't have any aggression to note today. But drive to get the extra rep was there. And that's after 2 brutal work days to start off the week. I've done a weeks worth of work in 2 days, but still felt motivated to get to the gym. I'm pleased with that for sure.
So side note, Xforce and Formex should stack well IMO.
DHT hasn't been mentioned much at all during this log. I've had no agression, no acne (maybe even clearer than usual), and no shedding. I have some thin spots upstairs and I shed pretty bad with trione or 6oxo... thank goodness I'm blessed with a body that is irresistable to women despite my hairline :laugh:
Joints are fine. Believe when I say I've had joint issues in the past. 1 reconstructed elbow, 1 dislocated shoulder, and no joint pain in 20 days. I even added weight to dips today for the first time in a long time with no elbow or shoulder pain. Formex is not hard on my joints. Novedex XT and 6oxo are extremely hard on my joints in comparison. Hyperdrol, TD form, and AX aPCT don't affect my joints either IIRC.
babywifey
Board Sponsor
Great to hear that X-force and Formex stack well. I absolutely love X-Force. I like to take a couple of caps 1 hour pre workout- my energy and stamina are always through the roof, and I tend to be stronger then. Obviously the strength is psychological, but hey! it works.
Iron Lungz
Banned
Indeed. X-Force is one product that I loved since it hit the market in 2007. I remember thinking it was going to make me jittery, much like all other fat burners/energy pills, but to my surprise, just good clean energy. And the best part - No crash!
:rofl:
That's nasty!