I did an hdrol cycle without a serm :<

[lolimfkd]

Hi. I did an hdrol cycle for 6 weeks without a serm in around october. I made awesome gains on it and after the cycle i used novedex and forskolin. I kept all of my gains and the majority of my strength. However recently, within the past month it seems as if im losing alot of muscle mass and gaining fat, my strength is still acceptable though. Basically I'm worried as to whether or not I ****ed myself by not taking a serm. I had bloodwork done around a month ago for another issue and my liver was 100%, and cholesterol was only at 137 or so. I stupidly forgot to check test levels though, I plan on getting more blood work done within the week.

Question is, if my test is low, should I do a serm now?

Btw, I'm only 21 (turning 22 in july), did I **** myself? :worried:

 

[bigpapa]

no. you'll be fine dude. i've run h-drol and epi plenty of times without a SERM. have you changed your diet or training at all?

 

[lolimfkd]

I consume alot less protein than I used to (i used to do around 200-250g around 4k calories a day). Now I probably only get around 100g at around 3500 cals a day and I haven't trained as hard, I never really gain weight from eating food though, so that's why I'm worried. I'm going to go bakc onto a legit diet and train hard and I'll see what happens in a month.


Thanks dude.

 

[mixedup]

i'd venture the fat gain may be fron increased cortisol and the mass loss is probablly all diet. if you don't eat like you did on cycle you can expect to keep the weight gained your just not giving your body the amount of calories it needs to keep up

 

[bigpapa]

well the problem with getting off an anabolic is that to keep the gains you did make, even in your case after a couple of months, you have to eat and train the same way for IMO at least 2 months after the cycle.

 

[lolimfkd]

It could be cortisol, I have been pretty stressed with school/females.

I took some comparison pics, but I can't post them due to my post count. Needless to say I look like complete garbage and my arms/traps have wasted away.

 

[bendin1140]

what did your cycle look like?
I'm about to do a cycle of h-drol myself any suggestions

 

[bigpapa]

dude...don't stress over females...lol seriously i used to do that and then inspiration came from an unlikely source, The Situation for Jersey Shore. lol

he said, if a girl doesnt like me its called **** you. cuz there are so many more people in the world.

 

[lolimfkd]

dude...don't stress over females...lol seriously i used to do that and then inspiration came from an unlikely source, The Situation for Jersey Shore. lol

he said, if a girl doesnt like me its called **** you. cuz there are so many more people in the world.

hahaha it's not about them liking me, it's about juggling them :>

and for my cycle iirc, i did 50mg the first four weeks then 75mg the last 2 weeks. I went from about 190-205. Protein was about 200-250g a day iirc, calories was about 4000+.

 

[bigpapa]

hahaha it's not about them liking me, it's about juggling them :>

QUOTE]

thats y u have one for everyday of the week dude.lol

 

[justeat]

I would only take a serm at this point if you were having gyno issues. No offense but any loss in shape was probly just due to slacking off on diet or routine. U gotta remember, after doing a ph you cant just revert back to old training and eating habbits, or you will revert back to your old body.

if your worried about test pick up some zma or a natty test booster, the placebo affect alone will probly make you feel better. Other then that go back to how you trained during cycle, and your body will return too.

 

[bendin1140]

what did you take for your pct?

 

[Mike Sav]

i just started an h drol cycle yesterday and im also goin to use novadex and pct assist for my post cycle.IMO you do not need a SERM for h drol. this is only my first ph cycle so im not an expert but i been researchin a lot and IMO everyone who gets ****ed up with there liver or gets gyno its because they do not follow the directions..everyone is always doing more than the required dosage and for a longer period of time..then people wonder why they get messed up.

 

[WhatsaRoid?]

I would only take a serm at this point if you were having gyno issues. No offense but any loss in shape was probly just due to slacking off on diet or routine. U gotta remember, after doing a ph you cant just revert back to old training and eating habbits, or you will revert back to your old body.

if your worried about test pick up some zma or a natty test booster, the placebo affect alone will probly make you feel better. Other then that go back to how you trained during cycle, and your body will return too.

Reps :damnit1:

I can hear the voice But I don't want to listen
Strap me down and tell me I'll be alright
I can feel the subliminal need To be one with the voice
And make everything alright

What song is that haha

 

[dre alvarez]

Hi. I did an hdrol cycle for 6 weeks without a serm in around october. I made awesome gains on it and after the cycle i used novedex and forskolin. I kept all of my gains and the majority of my strength. However recently, within the past month it seems as if im losing alot of muscle mass and gaining fat, my strength is still acceptable though. Basically I'm worried as to whether or not I ****ed myself by not taking a serm. I had bloodwork done around a month ago for another issue and my liver was 100%, and cholesterol was only at 137 or so. I stupidly forgot to check test levels though, I plan on getting more blood work done within the week.

Question is, if my test is low, should I do a serm now?

Btw, I'm only 21 (turning 22 in july), did I **** myself? :worried:

I'm running a 6 wk cycle of h-drol myself. And I'm going with otc for this one but if you going to otc, you should have a COMPLETE otc pct for proper recovery. Novedex-xt and forkslin is PART of the complete pct. You should always run a all-in-one like : CA pct assist, AI post cycle, I force reversitol, or purus labs recycle (highly recommended) you already had novedex xt for your anti-estrogen, and a cortisol control: like ds lean xtreme, sns reduce xt, CA supress-c. And you can afford to, add a natty test booster of your choice but in my opinion, ill go with ds activate xtreme or usplabs prime. It is otc, so is best to have everything you need.

 

[justeat]

i just started an h drol cycle yesterday and im also goin to use novadex and pct assist for my post cycle.IMO you do not need a SERM for h drol. this is only my first ph cycle so im not an expert but i been researchin a lot and IMO everyone who gets ****ed up with there liver or gets gyno its because they do not follow the directions..everyone is always doing more than the required dosage and for a longer period of time..then people wonder why they get messed up.

its not about deff needing a serm, gyno can flare up with any pro-anabolic. Its about having it in case you need it. better safe then sorry BROOO

 

[juice3320]

First off dudes he is running a designer steroid not a ph! Sorry about that guys I just hate when everyone calls everything a prohormone because there is such a big difference in a prohormone and a prosteroid. Anyway dude, get your diet and training back in perfect check! The old saying fits perfectly here: "No pain, no gain!" Once you get off of a cycle you will not feel as good as you did on (obviously) and a lot of people use that as an excuse to slack off. Don't be one of those guys! Just keep yourself dedicated and keep in mind that you are trying to solidify all of the gains that you just made and it will keep you on track. And before you know it you will be cycling again and building on to the gains that you previously made . Def get the bloodwork done and see where you stand, but until then bust your a** in the gym and do work!

 

[bendin1140]

dre alvarez: so reveristol, novedext xt and a cortisol blocker how do you recomend dosing those after a 6 week cycle of h-drol
i know reversitol is 3/2/2/1

 

[justeat]

there is no reason to run reversitrol and novedex xt together... they are both essentially the same thing- aromatase inhibitors.

ALSO any estrogen blocker or AI is usually a test booster as well! read the bottle before you buy it! there is no reason to run different brand supps when they contain the same active ingredients... plus its a waste of money. You only need one product that blocks est and increases test. other then then grab a cortisol control if you are worried about bf%.

 

[GeekPoop]

you'll be fine w/o a serm for hdrol, assuming you did normal dosing and time

 

[bigpapa]

What song is that haha

that is Voices by Disturbed

 

[Mike Sav]

its not about deff needing a serm, gyno can flare up with any pro-anabolic. Its about having it in case you need it. better safe then sorry BROOO

yess you are right it deff is better safe then sorry 100%...im about to order nolva

 

[Violator4200]

what is a good cortisol blocker???

 

[bigpapa]

what is a good cortisol blocker???

reduce XT or lean fx r the best IMO

 

[jamez45]

suppress-c by cel is solid if u can stand the smell.lol

 

[GeekPoop]

suppress-c by cel is solid if u can stand the smell.lol

you didnt like it?

Ill admit its smells like orange peels + alcohol but I kinda liked it.

 

[lolimfkd]

So I got the results back from my bloodtest and my test is 354. Nurse said that's completely normal (normal is 240-800 i believe). Is 354 normal for a 21 year old? seems on the low end of the spectrum.

 

[lolimfkd]

After doing some research it seems that 354 is normal for a 70 year old man, so I ordered some nolva, will post updates.

 

[eXcLuSiVe]

im two weeks in my halovar cycle would i be fine by just taking purus labs recycle ?

 

[Sad_que]

After doing some research it seems that 354 is normal for a 70 year old man, so I ordered some nolva, will post updates.

This is an old thread, but just to let you know I had lower test than that at age 19 and I'd never touched hormones or anything else. It varies a lot between people and your total test levels are only one part of the story.

With nothing to compare it to pre-cycle you shouldn't assume your test has now become lower.

And how are you getting on these days?

 

[no reason]

i just started an h drol cycle yesterday and im also goin to use novadex and pct assist for my post cycle.IMO you do not need a SERM for h drol. this is only my first ph cycle so im not an expert but i been researchin a lot and IMO everyone who gets ****ed up with there liver or gets gyno its because they do not follow the directions..everyone is always doing more than the required dosage and for a longer period of time..then people wonder why they get messed up.

ok..heres the deal imo... none of us should say you dont need a serm for pct when doing h-drol..have a serm on hand always..better safe then sorry..now heres what i experienced..if your gonna do h-drol at the low recommended dosage then yes you can get away with using an OTC pct such as novedex xt,inhibit-e, adavnced pct, ect..ect. using an ATD imo is ok as long as you use a low dosage and taper down..dont wanna kill all estrogen because then your body will have to reproduce it and it will at a higher rate..my choice would be advanced pct which is a 6-bromo and not a 3,17 keto-etiochol-triene(ATD)suicide inhibitor like novedex xt and inhibit-e . Now..if your gonna dose h-drol alot higher like me and alot of us have to do to get better results then this increases the risks of sides alot more and i would use a serm for pct for sure. just my opinion.

 

[bristol]

ok..heres the deal imo... none of us should say you dont need a serm for pct when doing h-drol..have a serm on hand always..better safe then sorry..now heres what i experienced..if your gonna do h-drol at the low recommended dosage then yes you can get away with using an OTC pct such as novedex xt,inhibit-e, adavnced pct, ect..ect. using an ATD imo is ok as long as you use a low dosage and taper down..dont wanna kill all estrogen because then your body will have to reproduce it and it will at a higher rate..my choice would be advanced pct which is a 6-bromo and not a 3,17 keto-etiochol-triene(ATD)suicide inhibitor like novedex xt and inhibit-e . Now..if your gonna dose h-drol alot higher like me and alot of us have to do to get better results then this increases the risks of sides alot more and i would use a serm for pct for sure. just my opinion.

I respectfully disagree with what you just said about "none of us can tell you to have a SERM for H-drol." I am straight up telling you that you need a SERM for any halodrol-50 clone, from personal experience, mass precedence on the topic, and the physiology of what occurs in your body after your cycle. From personal experience, I ran a halodrol-50 clone for my first "cycle" a few years ago and went from 195-210, and I lost 1% bodyfat (from 9%-8%). I ran it 50, 75, 75, 75, 75, 75. After the cycle I STUPIDLY did not a take a SERM, and instead opted for an OTC-PCT. My diet and training did not change whatsoever, but within 8 weeks of the end of my cycle I was back down to exactly 195 from 210.

The second time I ran a h-drol cycle, I dosed it the same way, except this time I used a SERM (tamoxifen citrate) and nothing else for PCT. I went from 195-210 again, except this time I kept it all, and even got more "cut up" looking through the PCT. I am 8 months removed from that cycle, and I have not lost one pound and my bf % is sitting around 7%.

Those are my personal experiences. But the physiology should trump any personal experience you read on the internet, and the physiology states that you are SHUT DOWN after a cycle. When you are shut down, you need something to get your test back up. This is where the SERM comes in. Get it?

 

[swollen87]

go get bloodwork, this is exactly why i tell people to use a serm.... HDROL IS VERY SUPRESSIVE!!! reguardless of how you FEEL ... thats what drives me crazy... people say i used otc and i FEEL like i recovered...... let me tell u something, you can walk around feeling great, without gyno, with a good libido, no depression, and good wood... and STILL be shut down... IMO anyone who recomends an otc pct for ANY steroid is irresponsible and a douchebag...

 

[Sad_que]

personal experience

This can be relevant, but is always coloured by biases and loyalties to products or "sides" in a debate.

mass precedence on the topic

this is not. "Most people" think that weightlifting makes your **** shrink and whey will make you sterile.

and the physiology of what occurs in your body after your cycle.

This is again open to interpretation, unfortunately :/

After the cycle I STUPIDLY did not a take a SERM, and instead opted for an OTC-PCT. My diet and training did not change whatsoever, but within 8 weeks of the end of my cycle I was back down to exactly 195 from 210.

Well which product(s) was it, and how did you dose it? That's important to know, not all OTC sold-as-PCT products are the same.

The second time I ran a h-drol cycle, I dosed it the same way, except this time I used a SERM (tamoxifen citrate) and nothing else for PCT. I went from 195-210 again, except this time I kept it all, and even got more "cut up" looking through the PCT. I am 8 months removed from that cycle, and I have not lost one pound and my bf % is sitting around 7%.

Strong results

Those are my personal experiences. But the physiology should trump any personal experience you read on the internet, and the physiology states that you are SHUT DOWN after a cycle. When you are shut down, you need something to get your test back up. This is where the SERM comes in. Get it?

Again, "the physiology", by which I imagine you might mean whatever has been looked at in formal studies, shows barely any more agreement than most forum threads. It would indeed seem that a typical SERM regime is likely to work pretty well - but the concern, aside from acquiring the drug, are the supposed side-effects and risks.

go get bloodwork, this is exactly why i tell people to use a serm.... HDROL IS VERY SUPRESSIVE!!! reguardless of how you FEEL ... thats what drives me crazy... people say i used otc and i FEEL like i recovered...... let me tell u something, you can walk around feeling great, without gyno, with a good libido, no depression, and good wood... and STILL be shut down... IMO anyone who recomends an otc pct for ANY steroid is irresponsible and a douchebag...

Have you ever seen a case of someone feeling great after OTC PCT and having the symptoms of healthy hormone balance, but then actually being shut down still? If so, can you remember where?

 

[leet2010]

I just began an Hdrol cycle (running 75/75/75/75/100) and was planning on doing my pct with

nolva 20/20/10/10
recycle
DAA
lean xtreme
liver juice

is that a complete enough pct? The recycle is supposed to be a AI plus natty boost and I also added the DAA in there for more natty boost. Any thoughts about the completeness of this? Thanks

 

[swollen87]

Have you ever seen a case of someone feeling great after OTC PCT and having the symptoms of healthy hormone balance but then actually being shut down still? If so, can you remember where?[/QUOTE]

yes, ive seen it a few times, i will look for it later and edit it into this post.... not always from an otc pct.... because generally people who use otc pct DONT get bloodwork so they never realize how shut down they are....


http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/71773-halodrol-h-drol.html

theres an example of how suppressive hdrol can be... ^ although it isnt a case where he felt everything was fine, he did not expect to be that shut down...

 

[aSKINNYkid]

Im going to start a hdrol cycle too, and all I had planned was reloading life support for a week and running it throughout the entire cycle. The running nova 20/20/10/10 for pct. This will be my first 0& cycle and I keep seeing the term "SERM" everywhere. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS MEANS. Enlighten me? And should I include this in my pct? Everywhere I look people seem to say its completely necessary... Also what test booster do you guys recommend?

Oh yeah, sorry for not starting my own thread for my own questions but maybe it will help someone else out who goggles the questions I've been goggling... since this was the number one result

 

[no reason]

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator, which means that it has the ability to act as an anti-estrogen with regard to certain genes, yet also acting as an estrogen with respect to others.......