How to "pulse" orals

[DR.D]

Has anyone tried pulsing pure androgens, such as MDHT or M5AA. They have an extremely short half-life.

Yes. It works well, better that it looks on paper. I pulsed a lot of short acting stuff back in the early days of phs (like 4AD, nordiol, andro, DHEA) and it worked better than anticipated. That's why I started taking a post-w/o dose too, because the half-lives were so short. You can use the same approach with the short acting methyls like you mentioned. For longer half-life methyls, you can take the whole dose pre-w/o, or at least the bigger portion pre-w/o for medium half-life methyls.

 

[SpargelJanusz]

Dr D is a shield to all the unfortunate ones who trust him.

 

[hman85]

Dr D is a shield to all the unfortunate ones who trust him.

What?

 

[RobInKuwait]

Yes. It works well, better that it looks on paper. I pulsed a lot of short acting stuff back in the early days of phs (like 4AD, nordiol, andro, DHEA) and it worked better than anticipated. That's why I started taking a post-w/o dose too, because the half-lives were so short. You can use the same approach with the short acting methyls like you mentioned. For longer half-life methyls, you can take the whole dose pre-w/o, or at least the bigger portion pre-w/o for medium half-life methyls.

So do you think this would be a good protocol?

Pre- 40mg M5AA/100mg DHEA
Post- 40mg M5AA/100mg DHEA
3-4x per week on WO days.

 

[EasyEJL]

Heres a good one just for the conversation sake, and also because its price is a wee bit high, what about pulsing something like decavol? its NorAndrostene-3b-ol, 17-one - 60mg and 1,4,6 etioallocholan-dione - 3mg, one $40 bottle is enough to dose at 120mg a day for a month, and "decent" dose for full cycle is from 180-360 a day. Any thoughts on dosing it as 3 caps each pre/post workout? that gives 10 workouts out of a bottle, so at 3 workouts a week almost a month.

Main reason i'm asking is cause I was poking around at halflifes, and it looks like straight deca (which this converts to) only has a 45 minute half life. All the talk about deca's long half life is due to what gets sold being undeconate.

 

[Ninjo]

Yes. It works well, better that it looks on paper. I pulsed a lot of short acting stuff back in the early days of phs (like 4AD, nordiol, andro, DHEA) and it worked better than anticipated. That's why I started taking a post-w/o dose too, because the half-lives were so short. You can use the same approach with the short acting methyls like you mentioned. For longer half-life methyls, you can take the whole dose pre-w/o, or at least the bigger portion pre-w/o for medium half-life methyls.

I have a couple of bottles of original Ergopharm 4ad stashed away in my freezer. They're 300mg caps; any idea what the best way to use them in a pulse would be?

 

[suncloud]

i'm seriously considering a pulse of ergomax LMG (close to phera) with havoc, and have heard mixed reviews of pulsing anything resembling phera. some of the earlier posts seem to suggest it would be fine, but here we are on page 80+ and its no longer recommended. i'm talking specifically about post 45 and 50. whats the verdict here?

would it be better to take the ergomax LMG every day and pulse havoc while on (that defeats the purpose of pulsing, doesn't it)? thoughts guys?

 

[nightfly71]

i'm seriously considering a pulse of ergomax LMG (close to phera) with havoc, and have heard mixed reviews of pulsing anything resembling phera. some of the earlier posts seem to suggest it would be fine, but here we are on page 80+ and its no longer recommended. i'm talking specifically about post 45 and 50. whats the verdict here?

would it be better to take the ergomax LMG every day and pulse havoc while on (that defeats the purpose of pulsing, doesn't it)? thoughts guys?

I did an identical pulse about a yr. ago and it went well. Used 1 a day of ergomax lmg and 1, then eventually 2 per day of the epi.

 

[Ninjo]

Send them to me bro, that'd give you the best gains IMO

:toofunny:

 

[wood23]

i'm seriously considering a pulse of ergomax LMG (close to phera) with havoc, and have heard mixed reviews of pulsing anything resembling phera. some of the earlier posts seem to suggest it would be fine, but here we are on page 80+ and its no longer recommended. i'm talking specifically about post 45 and 50. whats the verdict here?

would it be better to take the ergomax LMG every day and pulse havoc while on (that defeats the purpose of pulsing, doesn't it)? thoughts guys?

Idid a p-plex pulse 2months ago for 6 weeks.Went from 15mg first week up to 45mg last 4 weeks. It went well.good strength increases. It seemed to take a while to notice weight gains but they did come. Only used Custom capsule product with 7-keto dhea, lj100, horny goat weed and zinc for 4 weeks after and no strength losses at all. Just started a 2 week pulse with m-drol.

 

[suncloud]

ok. thanks guys. i've designed a total body workout every other day, so 3-4 times per week, depending on the week, hence why pulsing sounds so frikken good. gonna start this within the week. thanks again.

 

[liquid]

Heres a good one just for the conversation sake, and also because its price is a wee bit high, what about pulsing something like decavol? its NorAndrostene-3b-ol, 17-one - 60mg and 1,4,6 etioallocholan-dione - 3mg, one $40 bottle is enough to dose at 120mg a day for a month, and "decent" dose for full cycle is from 180-360 a day. Any thoughts on dosing it as 3 caps each pre/post workout? that gives 10 workouts out of a bottle, so at 3 workouts a week almost a month.

Main reason i'm asking is cause I was poking around at halflifes, and it looks like straight deca (which this converts to) only has a 45 minute half life. All the talk about deca's long half life is due to what gets sold being undeconate.

Would like to know more about this as well.

 

[liquid]

I'd stay away from that shyt. There are numerous gyno threads regarding that compound even with "proper" PCT's.

Really? I have not come across that info yet. Gotta go read up upon it.

 

[liquid]

Don't waste your time bro. I was thinking OMNEvol, not decavol lol.

Its all good.

 

[thundergod]

would it be better to take the ergomax LMG every day and pulse havoc while on (that defeats the purpose of pulsing, doesn't it)? thoughts guys?

I actually think you'd be more satisified and get better gains from doing a straight cycle stacking these 2 compound together for a strong 4 weeker bro. Say LMG @30 mg. and the Havoc @30 mg. You'd love the strength from a stack like that. The "dry" Havoc would help balance out the "wet" LMG! This is just what I would do. But yeah, a pulse is doable, even with LMG or Phera. It just seems to take longer to see the weight gains from it. If doing a pulse, I would suggest a 6 to 8 weeker. Probably the 8 weeks. This is the whole idea behind the pulsing method anyway. To minimize shutdown on the off-days and take the compound longer for slower but steadier gains.

 

[thundergod]

ok. thanks guys. i've designed a total body workout every other day, so 3-4 times per week, depending on the week, hence why pulsing sounds so frikken good. gonna start this within the week. thanks again.

Give us a log there suncloud. We want to enjoy the cycle with you bro!:head:

 

[Mu5tang69]

wud mdrol @20mg MWF for 8 weeks be effective?

mdrol is cheap! compared to others... so im setting up a pulse cycle for someone that is low on cash, for the most dramatic gains & the very least amount of money.

w/ proper diet & training aiming for 15+ pounds when its all done & over. hopefully this can be accomplished w/ this cycle.





also hopefully the sides from mdrol will feel close to non existant @this dose for a MWF 8 week pulse...maybe? or not possible... libido & lethargy is a factor.

 

[hman85]

Mdrol is the best for pulsing,imo. I would run it a little less time though and maybe go up to 30mgs.

 

[RUNNER 67]

Mdrol is the best for pulsing,imo. I would run it a little less time though and maybe go up to 30mgs.

Agreed. SD or EPi are the best. you will not get huge overnite, but with a great diet and workouts, i think you will love the results. plus no side effects at 2-3 days per week, at least for me.

 

[EasyEJL]

Mdrol is the best for pulsing,imo. I would run it a little less time though and maybe go up to 30mgs.

i've gone as high as 40 in a day. if managed appropriately you can avoid the lethargy.... 20 preworkout with 125mg dhea, 20 postworkout with 125mg of formestane from eform

 

[StellaArtois]

Dr D is a shield to all the unfortunate ones who trust him.

how did you come with that name Janusz? polish?

 

[LilJeremy]

Anyone use Activate Xtreme on off days? Seems like a great product for that with I3C and Div.

 

[BULLYBREED66]

1st ? & complete newbie - pulsing question.

Hey Distilled, I still think you're good to go with 5 days training, but you should set it up such that the training day that doesn't get dosed is easier on the recovery. Your easies w/o basically. Off days are all about recovery and increased glycogen stores are observed before androgen induced protein synthesis occurs anyway, so the AP is a good option indeed, especially with pulsing, and is sits well with Epi in particular because of it E2b receptor selectivity, as we discussed earlier.

I would like to do a pulse cycle, this is what I have to use.
Can someone advice me?
EPISTANE
METHANDROL-50
FENOBEST 20mlg.
TOKKYO NUTRITION COMIDEX PCT

If I am doing anything wrong plesae let me know, I'm just learning & Thank you!!!

 

[RobInKuwait]

I posted this on another thread and wanted to see if I get a better response here. Here's what I'm planning:

Week 1 MWF- 40mg M5AA 32mg M4OHN
Week 2 MWF- 40mg M5AA 32mg M4OHN
Week 3 MWF- 40mg M5AA 40mg M4OHN
Week 4 MWF- 40mg M5AA 40mg M4OHN
Week 5 MWF- 40mg M5AA 48mg M4OHN
Week 6 MWF- 40mg M5AA 48mg M4OHN
Week 1 PCT- 40mg Nolva ED
Week 2 PCT- 40mg Nolva ED
Week 3 PCT- 20mg Nolva ED, 2 caps Lean Xtreme ED
Week 4 PCT- 20mg Nolva ED, 2 caps Lean Xtreme ED

I've never tried M4OHN, so I'm not sure about these dosages. I don't think I have enough M4OHN to do real cycle of it (180 caps, 4mg/cap).

Questions I have:
1. Has anyone pulsed M4OHN? I didn't see any logs.
2. What ancillaries would experienced pulsers recommend for non-steroid days?
3. How many more calories (if any), do pulsers take in on pulse days.

 

[Mu5tang69]

I posted this on another thread and wanted to see if I get a better response here. Here's what I'm planning:

Week 1 MWF- 40mg M5AA 32mg M4OHN
Week 2 MWF- 40mg M5AA 32mg M4OHN
Week 3 MWF- 40mg M5AA 40mg M4OHN
Week 4 MWF- 40mg M5AA 40mg M4OHN
Week 5 MWF- 40mg M5AA 48mg M4OHN
Week 6 MWF- 40mg M5AA 48mg M4OHN
Week 1 PCT- 40mg Nolva ED
Week 2 PCT- 40mg Nolva ED
Week 3 PCT- 20mg Nolva ED, 2 caps Lean Xtreme ED
Week 4 PCT- 20mg Nolva ED, 2 caps Lean Xtreme ED


I've never tried M4OHN, so I'm not sure about these dosages. I don't think I have enough M4OHN to do real cycle of it (180 caps, 4mg/cap).

Questions I have:
1. Has anyone pulsed M4OHN? I didn't see any logs.
2. What ancillaries would experienced pulsers recommend for non-steroid days?
3. How many more calories (if any), do pulsers take in on pulse days.

not a log for M4OHN but cud be of sum value for u.....

Methyl-4-Hydroxy-Nandrolone (M4OHN): This seems to be one of Dr. D's favorites. This is great because it's very mild, causes very little suppression, and very clean. Don't let the methyl confuse you, this is very light on liver values. link here : Good Idea, Bad Idea: Compounds for Pulsing - Anabolic Xtreme Forum


sweet i still have a bottle of M5AA. never touched it because it converts to DHT. even tho i shave my head i still want to be able to grow hair and not suffer from hair loss.

question, i wonder if pulsing M5AA hair loss can be avoided? ( i doubt it.)

AI's Cycle support is good for off days. lots of stuff is there & cheaper then buying separately.

DHEA is also good on off days.

calories, depends on goals. bulking or cutting. ether route 1 1/2 - 2 grams of protien per lb of body weight.

 

[RobInKuwait]

sweet i still have a bottle of M5AA. never touched it because it converts to DHT. even tho i shave my head i still want to be able to grow hair and not suffer from hair loss.

question, i wonder if pulsing M5AA hair loss can be avoided? ( i doubt it.)

AI's Cycle support is good for off days. lots of stuff is there & cheaper then buying separately.

DHEA is also good on off days.

calories depends on the individuals goals.

I love M5AA. I never have hair issues so I don't give running it a second thought.

What's a good dosage of DHEA to run?

 

[Mu5tang69]

DHEA (25-50 mg) off days

& also not a log for M4OHN but cud be of sum value for u.....

Methyl-4-Hydroxy-Nandrolone (M4OHN): This seems to be one of Dr. D's favorites. This is great because it's very mild, causes very little suppression, and very clean. Don't let the methyl confuse you, this is very light on liver values. link here : http://forum.anabolicx.com/index.php?showtopic=4061&mode=threaded

 

[RobInKuwait]

DHEA (25-50 mg) off days

& also not a log for M4OHN but cud be of sum value for u.....

Methyl-4-Hydroxy-Nandrolone (M4OHN): This seems to be one of Dr. D's favorites. This is great because it's very mild, causes very little suppression, and very clean. Don't let the methyl confuse you, this is very light on liver values. link here : http://forum.anabolicx.com/index.php?showtopic=4061&mode=threaded

Awesome. Thanks for the link!

 

[mcgeier]

So should I take a test booster like Mass FX or something else together with a cortisol blocker loke 11 Oxo on off days?
Or is the cortisol blocker enough?

 

[EasyEJL]

So should I take a test booster like Mass FX or something else together with a cortisol blocker loke 11 Oxo on off days?
Or is the cortisol blocker enough?

you definitely want a test booster (and massfx doesnt really fit that perfectly) ans 11-oxo is suppressive, so its a bad choice of cortisol reducer for pulsing. the cortisol reducer is more optional

 

[mcgeier]

So something like Hyperdrol or Cissus Drol should be perfect?
Iam also not sure how long I can pulse with a compound like Superdrol@ 30mg?
Can you also do e.g. 8 weeks of SD and than 10 weeks of a non methylated compound (like Tren Xtreme, Furazadrol,...) and than start from the beginning? After 6 month on I would do a proper Post Cycle and than start from the beginning.

 

[hman85]

So something like Hyperdrol or Cissus Drol should be perfect?
Iam also not sure how long I can pulse with a compound like Superdrol@ 30mg?
Can you also do e.g. 8 weeks of SD and than 10 weeks of a non methylated compound (like Tren Xtreme, Furazadrol,...) and than start from the beginning? After 6 month on I would do a proper Post Cycle and than start from the beginning.

6 weeks is the longest i would go with superdrol.imo. I think that setup you have seems a little to long you need breaks to reset your receptors and just breaks on your body in general.

 

[mcgeier]

6 weeks is the longest i would go with superdrol.imo. I think that setup you have seems a little to long you need breaks to reset your receptors and just breaks on your body in general.

Can you also do like 3 times per week for two weeks, than stop two weeks and than continue?

 

[hman85]

Can you also do like 3 times per week for two weeks, than stop two weeks and than continue?

Yeah that would make sure that you wouldn't get shut down for sure. that would need no pct at all imo

 

[London28]

Hello People, just joined here

I read up to page 10 then skipped to page 80 and read until the end, I will be reading the missing 70 pages, but its taking ages as i keep being side tracked looking up all the names of pro hormones i have never heard of!

Any way,

I have looked at various small dosed AAS cycles for some time now, and I think i will try pulsing my Dbol. I have 500 Dbol and the same Tbol. also some Nolva, but i want to use this only if i have to due to its toxicity to the liver.

I have some questions for Dr D and the rest of you

1) it was asked before but i didn't see Dr d reply, would Tbol be ok to pulse in you opinion? maybe in a different manner, eg on twice per week? or every 3 days?

2) I know we are all different but would you think the use of PCT would be needed after a 6 to 8 week Dbol pulse 3 x per week at a dose of 20mg pre wo 10mg post?

3) could you use less like 10mg per & post? or maybe just 20mg pre would be better?

4) if Tbol can't really be pulsed then I may use it in a slightly different way, maybe a normal 4 to 6 week cycle with Nolva pct at the end, if I done this could a small Dbol pulse be used with it?

5) has any one here used any of the above protocols? if so i would love to hear you experiance good & bad.

6) As it is a bit different, are there any other threads on here with other interesting ways of cycling? like 14 days on (small dose first think in the am) and 14 days off?

7) why do you guys mostly go with pro hormones or designer steroids?

I know there is allot there guys, please answer any of the above, I hope to be around here a long while, it's good to find a forum where people have open minds. Most boards seem to be full of people saying "just stop being a pussy and inject!!"

Many thanks

 

[London28]

****! looks like i killed another thread lol, I know there is allot of questions there, but, any one? Dr D, where are you????????????????????????????????????

 

[EasyEJL]

1) it was asked before but i didn't see Dr d reply, would Tbol be ok to pulse in you opinion? maybe in a different manner, eg on twice per week? or every 3 days?

tbol has a long halflife, 16+ hrs, so its not really well suited for a pulse

2) I know we are all different but would you think the use of PCT would be needed after a 6 to 8 week Dbol pulse 3 x per week at a dose of 20mg pre wo 10mg post?

it would probably be a good idea to do a light natural pct, shouldn't need a serm

3) could you use less like 10mg per & post? or maybe just 20mg pre would be better?

really best to try the variations starting lighter and work your way up

4) if Tbol can't really be pulsed then I may use it in a slightly different way, maybe a normal 4 to 6 week cycle with Nolva pct at the end, if I done this could a small Dbol pulse be used with it?

sure that could be done, not really the best choice, or necessary. You've got enough tbol to run it pretty high for 6 weeks if you wanted to.

5) has any one here used any of the above protocols? if so i would love to hear you experiance good & bad.

6) As it is a bit different, are there any other threads on here with other interesting ways of cycling? like 14 days on (small dose first think in the am) and 14 days off?

sure thats another moderately common protocol

7) why do you guys mostly go with pro hormones or designer steroids?

legality. you can't today be arrested for having possession of superdrol or epistane, you can be arrested for tbol or dbol.

 

[London28]

Easy, Thanks allot for taking the time to reply, Very Much apreciated.

I have read lots recently about PCT, opinions and preferences seem to differ massively! What did you mean when you said " a light natural PCT should be used"

many thanks

 

[EasyEJL]

well assuming you do the 2 caps a day of hyperdrolx2 id bump it to 4 caps and add something like post cycle support,diesel test hardcore, drive,

 

[London28]

well assuming you do the 2 caps a day of hyperdrolx2 id bump it to 4 caps and add something like post cycle support,diesel test hardcore, drive,

oh right, I had not heard of hyperdrolx2 before, I'll research

 

[DR.D]

i've gone as high as 40 in a day. if managed appropriately you can avoid the lethargy.... 20 preworkout with 125mg dhea, 20 postworkout with 125mg of formestane from eform

Excellent methodology, and good choice of commercially available compounds and doses as well. 40 is very effective pulsing that one, but I suspect most fellas could do good with 30. A big carb meal post-w/o is needed not only to skip hypo, but also to support max gains and recovery. It's hard not to be happy with the results of a cycle like this.

 

[trend747]

I say go for it. My brother (real brother, not internet bro:hammer: ) is just finishing up 8 weeks. He went from 20mg week 1 to 30mg week 2, to 40mg weeks 3-8. Dr. D recommended the 20,30,40,40 and the up to 8 weeks part was a SS original. My bloodwork on Epi showed it to be very mild on the liver compared to M1t and even superdrol.

Really? My ALT at week 3 was 208... pretty damn elevated.

 

[DR.D]

Really? My ALT at week 3 was 208... pretty damn elevated.

On Epi? That doesn't sound right. Something else is going on I'd bet, if you were otherwise healthy when you started. My doc used to remind me the results were probably skewed artificially high when I tested on w/o days. He said he always saw isozymes elevated with natural athletes. I remember one time I had been using a dextromethorphan based cough syrup (non-acetaminophen formula) for a few days and tested with an ALT in the 400s! I wasn't taking anything else, so be aware that things you use casually and don't think twice about may be contributing. My transaminase remained elevated for 1wk even after discontinuing the cough syrup.

 

[trend747]

On Epi? That doesn't sound right. Something else is going on I'd bet, if you were otherwise healthy when you started. My doc used to remind me the results were probably skewed artificially high when I tested on w/o days. He said he always saw isozymes elevated with natural athletes. I remember one time I had been using a dextromethorphan based cough syrup (non-acetaminophen formula) for a few days and tested with an ALT in the 400s! I wasn't taking anything else, so be aware that things you use casually and don't think twice about may be contributing. My transaminase remained elevated for 1wk even after discontinuing the cough syrup.

Dang... that's crazy. Yeah, tell me about it. I was like, what the heck is going on... well I've been taking Tyler's Liver Support and Milk Thistle like crazy, so we'll see what my values look like here in a week or two.

 

[EasyEJL]

has anyone attempted pulsing Max LMG? not ergomax lmg but the progestin 13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one. I've kinda poked around dont see any

 

[hman85]

has anyone attempted pulsing Max LMG? not ergomax lmg but the progestin 13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one. I've kinda poked around dont see any

Suncloud is doing a log with one
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/106080-sunclouds-8-week.html

 

[LilJeremy]

Anyone use Activate Xtreme on off days? Seems like a great product for that with I3C and Div.

Bump please.

Any other recommendations for off day test boosters. I see DHEA thrown around.

Compound that I want to use is Epistane. Doses 30-40mg with 4 on days and 3 off days.

 

[DR.D]

Bump please.

Any other recommendations for off day test boosters. I see DHEA thrown around.

Compound that I want to use is Epistane. Doses 30-40mg with 4 on days and 3 off days.

ANTI-CATABOLIC
Cortisol antagonist work best for off days. Plain DHEA works well with very few sides. I've been taking <200mg DHEA/day since the mid 90's and never had a problem with HPT suppression. Only significant side is faster growth of body hair. Several DHEA metabolites and various herbs work well also. I just formulated a new anti-cort for AX with pretty fair appetite suppressant qualities as well.

PRO-ANABOLIC
As far as off day test boosters, any AI will do but some are better than others depending on your chemistry.

If you like something that's also mildly androgenic (increases DHT) then 6-oxo comes to mind. This might be better if you're gyno prone or have libido problems. In general it's probably least potent of the commercial test boosters.

If you want something that's mildly anti-androgenic, then ATD works well. This is good if you have problems with balding or enlarged prostate. It's a pretty potent test booster.

If you just want a clean, neutral AI then either 6-Bromo or Formestane can be smart choices. With one of these, you get a strong test booster without the typical sides of the androgenic and anti-androgenic AI's mentioned prior.

 

[DR.D]

... How do the people who end up in the gym later in the day (evening here) work around with pulsing? I probably leave the gym around 6:30- 7pm as a result of work.

You just dose late, there is no way around it sometimes. It's not a huge deal, just sub-ideal. If you're only dosing 3x/wk anyway, then it doesn't add up to much trouble.

I used to work out around midnight.

 

[LilJeremy]

ANTI-CATABOLIC
Cortisol antagonist work best for off days. Plain DHEA works well with very few sides. I've been taking <200mg DHEA/day since the mid 90's and never had a problem with HPT suppression. Only significant side is faster growth of body hair. Several DHEA metabolites and various herbs work well also. I just formulated a new anti-cort for AX with pretty fair appetite suppressant qualities as well.

PRO-ANABOLIC
As far as off day test boosters, any AI will do but some are better than others depending on your chemistry.

If you like something that's also mildly androgenic (increases DHT) then 6-oxo comes to mind. This might be better if you're gyno prone or have libido problems. In general it's probably least potent of the commercial test boosters.

If you want something that's mildly anti-androgenic, then ATD works well. This is good if you have problems with balding or enlarged prostate. It's a pretty potent test booster.

If you just want a clean, neutral AI then either 6-Bromo or Formestane can be smart choices. With one of these, you get a strong test booster without the typical sides of the androgenic and anti-androgenic AI's mentioned prior.

Very nice Dr.D. Thanks alot for the help and this post.