HGHup Sleep Issues: Question?

sapentia

sapentia

Member
I have been on HGHUp for 2 weeks with a 5 pre-bed dosing protocol. With few exceptions I have had an incredibly difficult time falling asleep on this product. Do I need to change my dosing protocol or what? I want to continue using this product but it is maddening :irked: to get two hours of sleep (last night) after a tough workout perhaps canceling out any benefits from the product altogether. I've got another bottle and a half left so I want to make this work. Aside from changing dosing to morning is there something I can supp. with the HGHUp to help the sleep? Thanks in advance.
 
if it's not helping you sleep, like it does with most ppl, i'd play with the dosing, possibly dose some before your workout....i kind of had the same affect with zma...that stuff doesn't help me sleep at all and actually makes my sleep worse
 
hey sapentia,sorry i can't help you out on this one for i have yet tried any hgh product, but as young gotti said try playing what the doses to find that sweet spot. if to no avail and you want to sell some of the left over stash pm me
 
sapentia said:
I have been on HGHUp for 2 weeks with a 5 pre-bed dosing protocol. With few exceptions I have had an incredibly difficult time falling asleep on this product. Do I need to change my dosing protocol or what? I want to continue using this product but it is maddening :irked: to get two hours of sleep (last night) after a tough workout perhaps canceling out any benefits from the product altogether. I've got another bottle and a half left so I want to make this work. Aside from changing dosing to morning is there something I can supp. with the HGHUp to help the sleep? Thanks in advance.
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With some individuals, getting to sleep can be an issue, yes. However, please be aware that the sleep you DO get, no matter how short, is NOT "canceling out any benefits from the product".

If you are having trouble with your sleep, it could be that your adenosine levels are too high, and your dopamine and norepinephrine levels are too low, which could be why a Growth Hormone booster is having the opposite effect on you to what it should. To combat this, you could add in some Rhodiola Rosea.

Otherwise, I recommend changing your dosing to 3 caps first thing and 2 caps pre-training.


~Team APPNUT
 
Rosie Scott said:
With some individuals, getting to sleep can be an issue, yes. However, please be aware that the sleep you DO get, no matter how short, is NOT "canceling out any benefits from the product".

If you are having trouble with your sleep, it could be that your adenosine levels are too high, and your dopamine and norepinephrine levels are too low, which could be why a Growth Hormone booster is having the opposite effect on you to what it should. To combat this, you could add in some Rhodiola Rosea.

Otherwise, I recommend changing your dosing to 3 caps first thing and 2 caps pre-training.


~Team APPNUT
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Thanks for the feedback Rosie. I think I will try the Rhodiola Rosea first and then change up the dosing. I used to take that a few years ago but for other reasons.

What I meant about canceling out benefits was that by only getting a couple hours sleep I might be hurting my body; most people seem to hold that 7-8 hours of sleep per night is an important factor so that if I only get 2-4 hrs. the benefits of the HGHUp may be compromised by the negative impact of less sleep.

Tonight should hopefully be :yawn:. Glad today is a rest day, but I have deads tomorrow so I need a good night of sleep.
 
Rosie Scott said:
With some individuals, getting to sleep can be an issue, yes. However, please be aware that the sleep you DO get, no matter how short, is NOT "canceling out any benefits from the product".

If you are having trouble with your sleep, it could be that your adenosine levels are too high, and your dopamine and norepinephrine levels are too low, which could be why a Growth Hormone booster is having the opposite effect on you to what it should. To combat this, you could add in some Rhodiola Rosea.

Otherwise, I recommend changing your dosing to 3 caps first thing and 2 caps pre-training.


~Team APPNUT
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I always thought it was dopamine levels being too high not too low... thats what i was told about 1-carboxy... but hey its always good to learn something new... so its adenosine levels that are spiking to dramatically and causing interupted sleep patterns?...
 
I thought the reason you don't drink coffee too close to bedtime is that it inhibits adenosine and increases dopamine levels, leading to sleeplessness.
 
Add GABA and Melatonin when taking it on an empty stomach. Glycine is also helpful and all of the above will boost HGHups effectiveness even more.
 
For the first week or so I used it I had trouble falling asleep, but it went away. I always took five caps right before I got in bed, about 30 minutes after having a can of tuna.
 
sapentia said:
Thanks for the feedback Rosie. I think I will try the Rhodiola Rosea first and then change up the dosing. I used to take that a few years ago but for other reasons.

What I meant about canceling out benefits was that by only getting a couple hours sleep I might be hurting my body; most people seem to hold that 7-8 hours of sleep per night is an important factor so that if I only get 2-4 hrs. the benefits of the HGHUp may be compromised by the negative impact of less sleep.

Tonight should hopefully be :yawn:. Glad today is a rest day, but I have deads tomorrow so I need a good night of sleep.
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You're welcome :)

I found out the same thing as you did - then again, my body is so fcuked up from my way of life the last few years and the crazy things I put myself through, that almost no supplement works the way it "should" with me.

Rhodiola Rosea works for me, and I actually prefer IGF-2, because it has it in it, and any Growth Hormone booster BUT IGF-2 does NOT work with my body.

How much sleep one needs for optimal recovery is really up to the individual. Yes, many people say that 7-8 hours is optimal, but it is not true for ALL people. For example, I personally am best at 4-5 hours sleep - if I get MORE than ~5 hours I am not as functional and generally feel like sh*t. 2 hours of sleep per night is definitely not ideal, and certainly not for long periods of time - unless of course, you are making up for it during the day with more sleep.


JaredGalloway said:
I always thought it was dopamine levels being too high not too low... thats what i was told about 1-carboxy... but hey its always good to learn something new... so its adenosine levels that are spiking to dramatically and causing interupted sleep patterns?...
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It's a mix of things. Everyone has a different body chemistry, and some of us work our adrenals too much and stress them out, that we screw things up.

~Team APPNUT
 
Well, I slept much better last night (6-7 hr.) although it still took over an hour to fall asleep. I did take the rhodiola (100mg) and I'm sure the natural exhaustion contributed too. Hopefully, the bad sleep pattern will be broken; I shall see.
 
sapentia said:
Well, I slept much better last night (6-7 hr.) although it still took over an hour to fall asleep. I did take the rhodiola (100mg) and I'm sure the natural exhaustion contributed too. Hopefully, the bad sleep pattern will be broken; I shall see.
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That's an improvement. Please definitely let me know how you go.

~Team APPNUT
 
Rosie Scott said:
That's an improvement. Please definitely let me know how you go.

~Team APPNUT
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:frustrate: Well yesterday was certainly a mixed bag. My max went up 30 lbs. in deadlifts (only do them every 9 days on 5,3,1 routine), but unfortunately I don't think I even got 2 hrs. of sleep last night. I am immediately implementing the 3 daytime, 2 prebed dosing; if that doesn't work I may try 5 day and none prebed. If that doesn't work I quit!

I took 100mg of Rhodiola (6% Rosavins) twice yesterday, in the morning and prebed; is that a good dosing?

I do take Jack3d preworkout; could that be interacting with the HGHUp to cause the sleep disturbance? I take it early afternoon so it has a good bit of time to get out of my system.
 
sapentia said:
:frustrate: Well yesterday was certainly a mixed bag. My max went up 30 lbs. in deadlifts (only do them every 9 days on 5,3,1 routine), but unfortunately I don't think I even got 2 hrs. of sleep last night. I am immediately implementing the 3 daytime, 2 prebed dosing; if that doesn't work I may try 5 day and none prebed. If that doesn't work I quit!

I took 100mg of Rhodiola (6% Rosavins) twice yesterday, in the morning and prebed; is that a good dosing?

I do take Jack3d preworkout; could that be interacting with the HGHUp to cause the sleep disturbance? I take it early afternoon so it has a good bit of time to get out of my system.
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Training quality and sleep quality are not correlated - although you might think they should be.

If you continue having issues re sleep, then I would recommend dosing 3 caps first thing and 1-2 caps pre-training.

Re Rhodiola Rosea, dosing for everyone will be different, so you will need to find what it optimal for YOU. Personally, I have it first thing, pre-training, and pre-bed.

Jack3ed contains Caffeine and Geranium, so if you are dosing that within 8 hours of going to bed, then, yeah, it IS going to affect your sleep, so it may be THIS that is causing your issues.

Unless you have used all of these products before and know how they affect you, then you might not be able to pinpoint which is causing the issue unless you use them standalone for at least a week, and with different dosing/timing schedules, to see which one is affecting your sleeping patterns.


~Team APPNUT
 
Rosie Scott said:
Jack3ed contains Caffeine and Geranium, so if you are dosing that within 8 hours of going to bed, then, yeah, it IS going to affect your sleep, so it may be THIS that is causing your issues.

Unless you have used all of these products before and know how they affect you, then you might not be able to pinpoint which is causing the issue unless you use them standalone for at least a week, and with different dosing/timing schedules, to see which one is affecting your sleeping patterns.


~Team APPNUT
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I have been on the Jack3d for some time now and it hasn't adversely affected my sleep on its own; I take it about 9-10hrs. before "attempted" sleep. I do have friends who can't sleep even taking Jack like that though. I was just thinking it could have potentially interacted in some way with the HGHUp.

Thanks again for the input Rosie; I'll adjust until I figure out what works for me; hopefully that won't take too long. Will post tomorrow about how taking 2 pre-bed works out tonight.
 
For me, rhodiola anytime after 2pm can keep me awake. IF you are supplementing with B vitamins, particularly B6, you may want to stop while on HGH-Up. I learned this the hard way when beta testing it...had me wide awake at 3am. Mostly rested, but annoyed that I couldn't sleep in.
 
bioman said:
For me, rhodiola anytime after 2pm can keep me awake. IF you are supplementing with B vitamins, particularly B6, you may want to stop while on HGH-Up. I learned this the hard way when beta testing it...had me wide awake at 3am. Mostly rested, but annoyed that I couldn't sleep in.
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Yes, we recommend NOT supplementing with more than 10mg of Vitamin B6 whilst using HGHup♂ - although many have wanted to continue using products containing well over 10mg of Vitamin B6, and if they dose them in the morning and HGHup♂ pre-bed, it can be done.

~Team APPNUT
 
bioman said:
Add GABA and Melatonin when taking it on an empty stomach. Glycine is also helpful and all of the above will boost HGHups effectiveness even more.
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Adding melatonin is not your best option. There are numerous studies out there finding that it lowers testosterone and sperm count. Seems to me, that would be counter productive, but that's just my .02 cents.

I had a similar experience while taking x-dreams. I actually slept worse while taking it. I added zma and velerian root to the mix to actually sleep.
 
Well, I was able to get a good 8 hrs. of sleep in last night. Still took 2-3hrs. to fall asleep but I gave myself plenty of extra time as a precaution. I took 2 HGHUp prebed and still felt like it energized me; funny but I think it affects me more way more than caffeine, geranium, or any of the other stims. I took 3 on waking this morning and will take 2 preworkout and I'm thinking I'll experiment with just one prebed tonight. I was surprised I still felt the effects from just two last night.

I am going to take a close look at my supps. today to see how much B6 I am getting. I haven't felt any stim. effects from the Rhodiola, perhaps just a calming effect. I have taken it roughly 30 min. before the HGHUp for prebed and didn't notice anything until after the HGHUp got into my system.

I am curious if this type of reaction to the HGHUp re sleep has any correlation to its effectiveness for my physiology such as increased HGH and testosterone.
 
sapentia said:
Well, I was able to get a good 8 hrs. of sleep in last night. Still took 2-3hrs. to fall asleep but I gave myself plenty of extra time as a precaution. I took 2 HGHUp prebed and still felt like it energized me; funny but I think it affects me more way more than caffeine, geranium, or any of the other stims. I took 3 on waking this morning and will take 2 preworkout and I'm thinking I'll experiment with just one prebed tonight. I was surprised I still felt the effects from just two last night.
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I am going to suggest having your pre-bed dose at least 2 hours BEFORE you go to bed (I had to do this). That way, you're getting in that 2 hours before going to bed, so that you CAN sleep once in bed.

~Team APPNUT
 
if that supplement doesn't work.., use ZMA i've been using it recently and it made me sleep fast.. trust me it works..
 
Rosie Scott said:
I am going to suggest having your pre-bed dose at least 2 hours BEFORE you go to bed (I had to do this). That way, you're getting in that 2 hours before going to bed, so that you CAN sleep once in bed.

~Team APPNUT
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I'll try that but I'm starting to think it may be something other than the HGHUp. I took just 1 cap prebed last night and didn't fall asleep until 7:30am at which point I got 2 1/2 hrs. The HGHUp is the only new supp. though except the Rhodiola. Thing is though I don't feel tired with so little sleep; I didn't even feel tired after lying there for 8 hrs. trying to fall asleep - strange!

EasyEJL said:
Are you taking any other supplements with huperzine-A in them by some chance?
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Nope, nothing else with huperzine-A in it.


I am of a scientific nature and there is a reason and I will find it. Looking back though the first week I took the HGHUp I didn't have sleep issues like this. It sort of crept up on me over time. In fact, I can distinctly remember one great night like so many describe; now if I can just figure out how to recreate that brain/body chemistry every night!
 
I hope you find out whats going on. because i had the same great first 5days and then went all down hill from there.
i remember one night i got not 1 hour sleep.
 
After doing a little more reading I think I may try to cycle of two days then back on 5 and keep that up. It may be that my physiology somehow adapts in a shorter timeframe and needs the break every 5 days. I know for certain the first 5 days on HGHup weren't that bad, in fact they were pretty fantastic compared to this past week.

If wondering why not just drop the supp. altogether, I have been making impressive gains in strength and lean mass. I already had been with the diet and workout routine I was on but the HGHup has kicked that up another notch. I am a bit fearful though that my strength may be off next week after averaging two hours of sleep post workout this last week.
 
sapentia said:
I'll try that but I'm starting to think it may be something other than the HGHUp. I took just 1 cap prebed last night and didn't fall asleep until 7:30am at which point I got 2 1/2 hrs. The HGHUp is the only new supp. though except the Rhodiola. Thing is though I don't feel tired with so little sleep; I didn't even feel tired after lying there for 8 hrs. trying to fall asleep - strange!
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Interesting (although DO remember that just lying there you ARE resting, even if you're not sleeping). We sure do all work differently!


sapentia said:
After doing a little more reading I think I may try to cycle of two days then back on 5 and keep that up. It may be that my physiology somehow adapts in a shorter timeframe and needs the break every 5 days. I know for certain the first 5 days on HGHup weren't that bad, in fact they were pretty fantastic compared to this past week.

If wondering why not just drop the supp. altogether, I have been making impressive gains in strength and lean mass. I already had been with the diet and workout routine I was on but the HGHup has kicked that up another notch. I am a bit fearful though that my strength may be off next week after averaging two hours of sleep post workout this last week.
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Sounds like you have things figured out. I'm glad that you're enjoying the physique and performance effects so much that you don't want to stop using HGHup♂. I really hope that you find a way to eliminate your sleeping issues, so that you can enjoy everything about using it.

~Team APPNUT
 
I figured I would post how things have been going with the HGHup.

Past Weekend:

I cycled off the HGHup completely; I did add some ZMA I picked up at GNC (quickie) hoping it would help with sleep and possibly overcome the HGHup stimulant effect. Over the weekend it did help me get to sleep quicker.

Monday:

Took 3 HGHup upon waking, heavy midday leg workout, took ZMA 30 min. prebed and then 3 HGHup at bedtiime. Started off feeling sleepy but then after a little while I felt the HGHup in my system and that was all she wrote. I think II got 3 hrs. sleep after taking maybe 5 to fall asleep.

Tuesday:

Took 3 HGHup upon waking, rest day, took ZMA 30 min. prebed. Went to sleep withinn 30 min., slept well, woke up rested the next day.

Wednesday:

Took 3 HGHup upon waking, upper body midday workout, did some research and had some Huperzine-A lying around from sometime in the past, so took ZMA 30 min. prebed and 50 mcg Huperzine-A to inhibit somatostatin at bed. Well, this definitely is one of the factors in the sleeplessness, same story different pill. Some of my reading yesterday turned up that 3% of people experience insomnia as a side effect from Huperzine-A. It always feels good to be special :fest30:

(today) Thursday:

Took 3 HGHup upon waking, rest day. Plan on ZMA as usual and I am going to see if I can find any Mucuna Pruriens at a local store as that is the only other ingredient I feel that could be causing the sleep issues. Caffeine has never affected me with sleep in the past and the B6 in ZMA doesn't either.

I can't use HGHup for nocturnal HGH release but I am trying to narrow down the specific ingredient(s) that cause the sleep issue. If I can do that I may be able to customize a personal protocol for HGH prebed.

Rosie, it is interesting that the IGF-2 works for you since it has Mucuna Pruriens but no Huperzine-A. My hope is that the Mucuna doesn't cause a sleep issue in me and that it is exclusively an effect of the Huperzine-A.

I will report back when I have done some further experimenting.
 
I'll post up my initial thoughts of HGHUp on Monday, I'll be starting it then. IGF-2 and LipoTrophin PM make me sleep like a baby so I'm expecting no less from HGHUp :)
 
sapentia said:
I figured I would post how things have been going with the HGHup.

Past Weekend:

I cycled off the HGHup completely; I did add some ZMA I picked up at GNC (quickie) hoping it would help with sleep and possibly overcome the HGHup stimulant effect. Over the weekend it did help me get to sleep quicker.

Monday:

Took 3 HGHup upon waking, heavy midday leg workout, took ZMA 30 min. prebed and then 3 HGHup at bedtiime. Started off feeling sleepy but then after a little while I felt the HGHup in my system and that was all she wrote. I think II got 3 hrs. sleep after taking maybe 5 to fall asleep.

Tuesday:

Took 3 HGHup upon waking, rest day, took ZMA 30 min. prebed. Went to sleep withinn 30 min., slept well, woke up rested the next day.

Wednesday:

Took 3 HGHup upon waking, upper body midday workout, did some research and had some Huperzine-A lying around from sometime in the past, so took ZMA 30 min. prebed and 50 mcg Huperzine-A to inhibit somatostatin at bed. Well, this definitely is one of the factors in the sleeplessness, same story different pill. Some of my reading yesterday turned up that 3% of people experience insomnia as a side effect from Huperzine-A. It always feels good to be special :fest30:

(today) Thursday:

Took 3 HGHup upon waking, rest day. Plan on ZMA as usual and I am going to see if I can find any Mucuna Pruriens at a local store as that is the only other ingredient I feel that could be causing the sleep issues. Caffeine has never affected me with sleep in the past and the B6 in ZMA doesn't either.

I can't use HGHup for nocturnal HGH release but I am trying to narrow down the specific ingredient(s) that cause the sleep issue. If I can do that I may be able to customize a personal protocol for HGH prebed.

Rosie, it is interesting that the IGF-2 works for you since it has Mucuna Pruriens but no Huperzine-A. My hope is that the Mucuna doesn't cause a sleep issue in me and that it is exclusively an effect of the Huperzine-A.

I will report back when I have done some further experimenting.
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Thanks for your feedback so far...Yes, IGF-2 works for me; it is the ONLY Growth Hormone booster that I will use, because it is the ONLY one that does not make me sleep endlessly - and I have used many others, all of which do NOT include Huperzine-A, so this was not the issue.

As I have said before, supplements generally don't have the "expected effect" on me, because my body chemistry is so screwed up.

On a completely random note, I haven't been sleeping well at all since I've been sick, ~2 hours one night and ~15 hours the next, and now, just been awake for almost 3 DAYS! Talk about fcuked up!


UKStrength said:
I'll post up my initial thoughts of HGHUp on Monday, I'll be starting it then. IGF-2 and LipoTrophin PM make me sleep like a baby so I'm expecting no less from HGHUp :)
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Be great to see, Rick :)

~Team APPNUT
 
Hey Sap - great posts. Glad you're sharing your experiences. I've got the same issues but with peptides AND ZMA.

ZMA pre-bed - forget it, no sleep!
GHRP's or CJC = DITTO (while everyone sleeps like a champ WTF!)

USPlabs PowerFULL is the only thing that I can take pre-bed with any success .
 
Rosie Scott said:
On a completely random note, I haven't been sleeping well at all since I've been sick, ~2 hours one night and ~15 hours the next, and now, just been awake for almost 3 DAYS! Talk about fcuked up!

~Team APPNUT
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Wow! sorry to hear that Rosie. I hope you start feeling better soon; that must be driving you crazy and I can't even imagine trying to train during that.

I supp. with iodine (Lugol's solution/Iodoral pills) daily for health benefits one of which is to keep sickness at bay and my immune system stronger. I think I've been sick once in the last two years and that was just head congestion.

___________________

I wasn't able to find any mucuna pruriens locally so I had to order some online. Will report back next week when I see what effect it has on me standalone prebed. I am sleeping fine as long as I don't take HGHup or Huperzine prebed.

My deadlifting strength was a bit down yesterday and I can't help but think my only getting 2 hrs. sleep after my deads workout the week before played a role in that. Oh well, keep moving forward!
 
sapentia said:
I wasn't able to find any mucuna pruriens locally so I had to order some online. Will report back next week when I see what effect it has on me standalone prebed. I am sleeping fine as long as I don't take HGHup or Huperzine prebed.
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Just dose first thing and pre-training then.

~Team APPNUT
 
Hey Sapentia

I just started using HGHup this week on Monday and I totally understand your sleeping predicament. I took my first night time dose this past Monday and I did not feel sleepy at all. In fact, I was wired for a solid hour before resorting to taking vicodin to put me out. Yeah, the l-cartinine and green tea must have a synergistic effect to have a more stimulatory effect. I took 3 caps pre-workout and I thought I was never going to leave the gym. I could have easily trained another hour. Sure, I take some giggers before hitting the gym usually. But, I added the hghup with my normal energy stuff and I thought I was gonna throw up even before stepping into the gym. I'm sure you researched alot of logs and found that most people were reporting good sleep after taking a dose of this stuff but, for me (and you based on this thread) it has the complete opposite effect as far as promoting sleep. So, I had to change my dosing by taking it as Rosie scott recommended which is 3 in the a.m and 2 either pre workout or late afternoon with a protien meal.

I sometimes train in the a.m or late in the evening depending on my work schedule. If I train in the a.m., I take my 2 caps in the late afternoon at least 2 hours after my noon meal and 30-45 mins before my all protein meal ( 1 cup of cottage cheese and a handful of almonds). Last night, I slept really good and I didn't take my 2nd dose before I went to bed. It is too early to really tell you of any results but, I have noticed my strength increase after just one workout and my sleep was better last night. So, that is enough for me to continue with this product.
 
Hey Rosie Scott

I have two questions for you:

1.) Would cottage cheese and a handful of almonds a good protein meal if you were trying to dose around a time when your trying to put in 6 meals a day but, not trying to
let carbohydrates negate the effects of the L-dopa?

2.) Would I hinder my gains if I stuck to a 5 on/2 off regiman? Alot of GH boosters recommend that type of cycle schedule but, since this stuff is a little different, would it matter?
 
brahmabull said:
Hey Rosie Scott

I have two questions for you:

1.) Would cottage cheese and a handful of almonds a good protein meal if you were trying to dose around a time when your trying to put in 6 meals a day but, not trying to
let carbohydrates negate the effects of the L-dopa?

2.) Would I hinder my gains if I stuck to a 5 on/2 off regiman? Alot of GH boosters recommend that type of cycle schedule but, since this stuff is a little different, would it matter?
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1. That's fine - as long as you do not consume carbohydrates or whey protein within 90-120 minutes of your dosing HGHup, you are ok.

2. A 5 on/2 off protocol would be fine.


~Team APPNUT
 
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