Hemavo2?? Any word on it

[DarthGainer]

PES love the wordplay

if it wasn't for the nitrates they would have been good stacked as 1 scoop of each =
L- Cit - 4g
Agmatine - 1.5g
nitrates - to many or not?
Betaine - 2.5g
Hydromax - 2g+

That would be good enough for me above but then you get all the extras - Amento (not convinced), Taurine, creatine, Choline.........

But if I was to choose 1 it would be High volume but would prefer all the ingredients amounts listed. I will also say the only 2 powered products I have ever liked is OG hemavol lemon drop and High volume Blue frost.

 

[carmaf]

I personally don't want to turn this into a HV vs Hemavol2 thread or another HV hype thread, we already have one of those. I wasn't kidding when I said I was excited to see what iForce was cooking up, bc they knew what the competitors had brought to the table, so I thought they would up the ante for sure.

Funny thing is I'm not even crazy for pump products. I like HV, but as I have mentioned before I don't seem to respond to pump products as well as others prob bc of carb intake so HV isn't even as staple for me.

This isn't about iForce vs PES or anything, I just feel that the industry should be always moving forward, and I just don't feel Hemavol2 is pushing the pump category forward. I also don't appreciate the rep coming in and blatantly over-selling the product when the label itself should do all the talking, and it(the label), speaks volumes(no pun intended).

I mean a little hype is part of the game, but don't misread the label and tell me I'm wrong, or insult my intelligence with that whole "full dose of creatine" BS.

 

[carmaf]

I will also admit I don't support the 36 scoop/18 serving bit of wordplay by PES or anyone else, and it's a shame it's the name of the game in the industry. Despite what people think, I don't think PES can do no wrong. It's not technically wrong, but it just opens up the door for less informed users to be misled. As long as you still know what you are paying for though, I can live with it.

I will however say this, with both HV and Alphamine, I never needed to use the recommended servings, so the "wordplay" has a bit more substance to it, bc it seems to truly be the maximum dosage, rather than just effective dosage(for me at least). Perhaps an 18-36 serving label would be more accurate in the future?

 

[kbayne]

I will also admit I don't support the 36 scoop/18 serving bit of wordplay by PES or anyone else, and it's a shame it's the name of the game in the industry. Despite what people think, I don't think PES can do no wrong. It's not technically wrong, but it just opens up the door for less informed users to be misled. As long as you still know what you are paying for though, I can live with it. I will however say this, with both HV and Alphamine, I never needed to use the recommended servings, so the "wordplay" has a bit more substance to it, bc it seems to truly be the maximum dosage, rather than just effective dosage(for me at least). Perhaps an 18-36 serving label would be more accurate in the future?

The whole issue of what is stated on the bottle (36 servings) is ridiculous.

There are numerous people only using/needing one scoop which would yield 36 servings per tub. Yes the serving size says 2 scoops which would be 18, but I've yet to see anyone consistently stating they are using 2 scoops.

 

[DarthGainer]

Can the reps just stop with defending the scoop issue, You know full well when someone first see's the scoop amount on the tub they would think (and rightly so) that its referring to servings. As I said wordplay.

Why not write 18 servings on the front of the tub? Then write something about trying half the dose first on the back info?
The thing is i know you reps need to defend these things if you agree or not ok. I have a feeling PES has lost allot of customers lately (forum customers).

 

[luckylefty811]

you really trust giant to meet label claims? I guess if it works for you it works for you but I'd rather support other companies I can trust.

I hear you , got it for free so it doesn't affect my really

 

[LEATHERFACE92]

Damn PES reps are some whining bitches

 

[Bryancap77]

Damn PES reps are some whining bitches

The irony here is your whining about the fact you believe their whining... I believe that's called a moot point my friend. Lol

 

[Chefdeez]

Sometimes it's hard to tell whether this is Anabolic Minds or the PES forum. People need to realize not everyone likes the same products. Alphamine and Norcodrene are great products but there are a lot better products out there too. How about we try V2 before we just assume it's not as good as HV?

 

[LEATHERFACE92]

The irony here is your whining about the fact you believe their whining... I believe that's called a moot point my friend. Lol

Yes I'm whining on every thread about a product scoops content

 

[Jiigzz]

The 36 scoop wording on PES's tub is accurate though, is it not? That wording is literally no different than a supplement saying something to the effect of "180 capsules, 1 capsule = 1 serving" only to disclose on that back that you need 10 servings per day. It is a very common tactic that happens in the food and supplement industry.

Edit: I also want to add that with HV, 1 scoop is enough to reap benefits but 2 scoops is perfect for full doses of each ingredient. IMO PES is ensuring that its consumers get the absolute most out of its products by providing what I see as full doses of each ingredient. They could have easily gotten away with saying 1 scoop = 1 serving and then on the back said, use 1-2 servings but in my mind, it seems as though they would prefer to tell the truth and not give people an under-dosed serving size.

What would annoy me is if a product was extremely under-dosed (lets say 250mg Agmatine, 1g L-Citrulline and 1g Creatine or whatever) then they said 1 scoops = 1 serving and to use 1 serving pre workout, which does happen even if it did contain more scoops per container.

Lets face it, hardly anybody knows what a full dosage of each ingredient should be except for some people in the forum population which represent a small minority of people who actually purchase supplements so for PES to use full disclosure is a plus in my books, even if it is only an 18 serving tub.

 

[AaronJP1]

Wasn't much of a fan of the old Hemavol.
I got some High Volume in recently.
Only tried 1 scoop thus far, may up it to 2 soon.

See folks are liking the NOxygen as well...

 

[Bryancap77]

Wasn't much of a fan of the old Hemavol. I got some High Volume in recently. Only tried 1 scoop thus far, may up it to 2 soon. See folks are liking the NOxygen as well...

I hear a lot about NOxygen but have yet to check it out.

 

[nattydisaster]

doesnt your label have 36scoops on the front of the label?? lol

Yea, because thats how many it has...

I think everyone who is a supplement consumer has the ability to read a label, no?

 

[nattydisaster]

The 36 scoop wording on PES's tub is accurate though, is it not? That wording is literally no different than a supplement saying something to the effect of "180 capsules, 1 capsule = 1 serving" only to disclose on that back that you need 10 servings per day. It is a very common tactic that happens in the food and supplement industry.

Edit: I also want to add that with HV, 1 scoop is enough to reap benefits but 2 scoops is perfect for full doses of each ingredient. IMO PES is ensuring that its consumers get the absolute most out of its products by providing what I see as full doses of each ingredient. They could have easily gotten away with saying 1 scoop = 1 serving and then on the back said, use 1-2 servings but in my mind, it seems as though they would prefer to tell the truth and not give people an under-dosed serving size.

What would annoy me is if a product was extremely under-dosed (lets say 250mg Agmatine, 1g L-Citrulline and 1g Creatine or whatever) then they said 1 scoops = 1 serving and to use 1 serving pre workout, which does happen even if it did contain more scoops per container.

Lets face it, hardly anybody knows what a full dosage of each ingredient should be except for some people in the forum population which represent a small minority of people who actually purchase supplements so for PES to use full disclosure is a plus in my books, even if it is only an 18 serving tub.

Yes it is accurate. Everyone loves to scrutinize, but we welcome it. The whole argument over how many scoops and servings are in High Volume was an amazing thread for us...it brought High Volume into so many peoples eyes. I would have loved for the thread to stay open. No one could argue about the product itself because of the formula and the feedback, so they decided to attack the fact we wrote 36 scoops on the label, and give it a serving size of 2 scoops...

But I still don't understand the argument. Just look at the label, decide how much you want to take and thats how many servings a product has...that goes for any product.

Also, the way our "serving size" is labeled is proper according to FDA guidelines. There are many products who do not follow the labeling guidelines. If the recommended serving size is 1-2 scoops/capsules, your serving size on the supplement facts panel has to represent the maximum recommended scoops/capsules in one serving, not the minimum.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Whats the science behind creatine for acute pump effects out of curiosity?

Bump

 

[mw1]

The 36 scoop wording on PES's tub is accurate though, is it not? That wording is literally no different than a supplement saying something to the effect of "180 capsules, 1 capsule = 1 serving" only to disclose on that back that you need 10 servings per day. It is a very common tactic that happens in the food and supplement industry.

Edit: I also want to add that with HV, 1 scoop is enough to reap benefits but 2 scoops is perfect for full doses of each ingredient. IMO PES is ensuring that its consumers get the absolute most out of its products by providing what I see as full doses of each ingredient. They could have easily gotten away with saying 1 scoop = 1 serving and then on the back said, use 1-2 servings but in my mind, it seems as though they would prefer to tell the truth and not give people an under-dosed serving size.

What would annoy me is if a product was extremely under-dosed (lets say 250mg Agmatine, 1g L-Citrulline and 1g Creatine or whatever) then they said 1 scoops = 1 serving and to use 1 serving pre workout, which does happen even if it did contain more scoops per container.

Lets face it, hardly anybody knows what a full dosage of each ingredient should be except for some people in the forum population which represent a small minority of people who actually purchase supplements so for PES to use full disclosure is a plus in my books, even if it is only an 18 serving tub.

Nailed it

 

[DarthGainer]

Sometimes it's hard to tell whether this is Anabolic Minds or the PES forum.

I thinking of just deleting my account for this reason.

I like PES products as I've said before, I use PES products regularly but the whole dodging questions and wordplay and in general its just a bit shady now. None of the reps or Natty can answer some questions and need to wait until Cooper is available to do so? What kind of company is this?

Natty = But we know people who buy PES are hardcore (CRINGE)

 

[kbayne]

I thinking of just deleting my account for this reason. I like PES products as I've said before, I use PES products regularly but the whole dodging questions and wordplay and in general its just a bit shady now. None of the reps or Natty can answer some questions and need to wait until Cooper is available to do so? What kind of company is this? Natty = But we know people who buy PES are hardcore (CRINGE)

What questions haven't been answered might I ask?

 

[Afi140]

What questions haven't been answered might I ask?

pretty sure he's talking about amento.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/262807-amentoflavone-bunk-why.html

 

[Jiigzz]

Sometimes it's hard to tell whether this is Anabolic Minds or the PES forum. People need to realize not everyone likes the same products. Alphamine and Norcodrene are great products but there are a lot better products out there too. How about we try V2 before we just assume it's not as good as HV?

If a company commands respect on a forum, is that the fault of the company in question? Have you noticed that since arriving at another forum, PES has quickly raised a small gathering and last I checked, they commanded a lot of votes in some forum awards poll. Again, is PES at fault or putting out products people enjoy? To me, that's them doing there job right.

I thinking of just deleting my account for this reason.

I like PES products as I've said before, I use PES products regularly but the whole dodging questions and wordplay and in general its just a bit shady now. None of the reps or Natty can answer some questions and need to wait until Cooper is available to do so? What kind of company is this?

Natty = But we know people who buy PES are hardcore (CRINGE)

I am an SNS rep and have been for a long time and do not often comment in PES specific threads as I have nothing extra to add. But to call PES shady over putting 36 scoops on the front versus saying 18 servings is silly. Both are correct.

Sometimes a question may be put forward that a rep cannot answer. Pharmacokinetic questions are an example. What would you rather as a consumer; an answer from a rep who does know the answer or a rep who doesn't know the answer answering because otherwise PES will be called shady?

Sometimes the answer is well out of our depths of knowledge (interaction issues and other such things) so we leave them and notify our other reps to answer when they can.

 

[DarthGainer]

Got answered but was dodged for a while.

And how many times do people need to wait for coop to answer the questions that no one on PES can?

 

[DarthGainer]

If a company commands respect on a forum, is that the fault of the company in question? Have you noticed that since arriving at another forum, PES has quickly raised a small gathering and last I checked, they commanded a lot of votes in some forum awards poll. Again, is PES at fault or putting out products people enjoy? To me, that's them doing there job right.



I am an SNS rep and have been for a long time and do not often comment in PES specific threads as I have nothing extra to add. But to call PES shady over putting 36 scoops on the front versus saying 18 servings is silly. Both are correct.

Sometimes a question may be put forward that a rep cannot answer. Pharmacokinetic questions are an example. What would you rather as a consumer; an answer from a rep who does know the answer or a rep who doesn't know the answer answering because otherwise PES will be called shady?

And regarding the scoop thing, its not just me thinking this is shady. Look back on posts regarding Amino IV.

Sometimes the answer is well out of our depths of knowledge (interaction issues and other such things) so we leave them and notify our other reps to answer when they can.

Not calling them shady over the 36 scoops thing lol. When did i say in that post it was about the 36 scoops. Allot of this gathering is to do with Coop, As soon as he has a good opinion about something and explains what this supplement could/will do then allot of guys are jumping at the product. Some guys have not even tried the product and recommending it to others telling them what it will do??? As soon as people start questioning these products its like a cult invasion.

I understand most reps can't but Natty?
Of course I wouldn't want a answer just for the sake of it. I do however think there should be more than 1 person to answer these questions. Also If these reps are going to defend these things then they should have answers.

 

[kbayne]

Got answered but was dodged for a while. And how many times do people need to wait for coop to answer the questions that no one on PES can?

Cyrus is one of the main R&D guys for us. Obviously very knowledgable in multiple areas and we at PES do not dodge questions and wait for Cooper to answer. We will try to answer questions to the best of our ability. For the most part the forum members wait for Cooper or Synapsin to answer.

 

[DarthGainer]

Cyrus is one of the main R&D guys for us. Obviously very knowledgable in multiple areas and we at PES do not dodge questions and wait for Cooper to answer. We will try to answer questions to the best of our ability. For the most part the forum members wait for Cooper or Synapsin to answer.

It was all in my imagination. No probs.

 

[bdcc]

To be fair, there is actually a bit more to this than forum members realise.

That thread spanned over at least four forums, included private messages, personal insults and some false allegations towards us.

As a general rule, we tend to avoid arguments on forums so I asked the team to avoid the thread once I had posted in it.

Cooper was receiving a fair amount of abuse from certain forum members so he was welcome to respond if he wished.

We enjoy discussing ingredients and MOAs, Cyrus probably more than anyone. Once it drifts from objective discussion to personal insults it is much less beneficial for all involved so we just avoid it.

So whilst people think we were avoiding the thread, technically they are correct. If they think we were avoiding the thread because we didn't want to discuss the data on amentoflavone, they are incorrect.

I do not wish this thread to be derailed, it was simply something which needed clearing up.

 

[Chefdeez]

If a company commands respect on a forum, is that the fault of the company in question? Have you noticed that since arriving at another forum, PES has quickly raised a small gathering and last I checked, they commanded a lot of votes in some forum awards poll. Again, is PES at fault or putting out products people enjoy? To me, that's them doing there job right. I am an SNS rep and have been for a long time and do not often comment in PES specific threads as I have nothing extra to add. But to call PES shady over putting 36 scoops on the front versus saying 18 servings is silly. Both are correct. Sometimes a question may be put forward that a rep cannot answer. Pharmacokinetic questions are an example. What would you rather as a consumer; an answer from a rep who does know the answer or a rep who doesn't know the answer answering because otherwise PES will be called shady? Sometimes the answer is well out of our depths of knowledge (interaction issues and other such things) so we leave them and notify our other reps to answer when they can.

In no way am I blaming the company.

 

[DarthGainer]

Ben what exactly did that clear up? All i see is excuses for avoiding answers that paying customers would like to hear? Customer service at its best.

I'm past caring now I think, I won't be buying anymore PES products so no need to carry on.

 

[kbayne]

Ben what exactly did that clear up? All i see is excuses for avoiding answers that paying customers would like to hear? Customer service at its best. I'm past caring now I think, I won't be buying anymore PES products so no need to carry on.

You've yet to specify the question(s) you're so concerned with?

 

[bdcc]

Ben what exactly did that clear up? All i see is excuses for avoiding answers that paying customers would like to hear? Customer service at its best.

I'm past caring now I think, I won't be buying anymore PES products so no need to carry on.

They aren't excuses I am pulling out of thin air, I am telling you specifically why our reps didn't respond.

Please keep in mind that this discussion was heavily clouded with personal insults and false allegations.

If someone criticises our products it warrants a discussion. We have these discussions openly on forums all the time and they certainly aren't something we avoid. If someone criticises our products, makes personal insults and slanderous allegations then I think it is more subjective on whether we should respond or not.

There is a lot more behind the scenes that people are unaware of. Please keep this in mind before you decide whether we did the right thing or not.

If you want to discuss this further, please feel free to message or email me. Otherwise it makes sense to let this thread go back on track.

 

[DarthGainer]

It does not matter if they were pulled out of thin air or not, They are still excuses. Because some people get abusive does not mean ignore the questions.
Can you imagine companies outside the supplement industry not answering questions because some people where mean to them?

Let it just go back on track because you are doing exactly what i'm talking about = Wordplay.

I have derailed this thread, Sorry OP.

 

[bdcc]

It does not matter if they were pulled out of thin air or not, They are still excuses. Because some people get abusive does not mean ignore the questions.
Can you imagine companies outside the supplement industry not answering questions because some people where mean to them?

Let it just go back on track because you are doing exactly what i'm talking about = Wordplay.

I have derailed this thread, Sorry OP.

I chimed in because you said consumers were owed an explanation so I explained what happened behind the scenes which most readers of the thread weren't aware of.

I genuinely was trying to be helpful so I do not understand the hostility.

Also, with all due respect, I would imagine if you emailed a company asking a question and included personal insults and slanderous accusations it is actually quite possible they wouldn't answer your question lol.

 

[DarthGainer]

Sorry but what hostility? I am genuinely not being hostile but maybe its coming across like that.

The explanation again is just an excuse.

So everyone asking questions included personal insults and slanderous accusations?

 

[bdcc]

Sorry but what hostility? I am genuinely not being hostile but maybe its coming across like that.

The explanation again is just an excuse.

So everyone asking questions included personal insults and slanderous accusations?

Absolutely not, no. A lot of them were very fair.

I am referring to specific instances on other forums.

This is why I said that there is a lot going on behind the scenes that most people are*unaware of.

 

[DarthGainer]

Then back to my point of just because some people are like that does not mean others shouldn't get answers.

IMO The situation is just being made worse by reps, Its just excuses, Wordplay, defensive..........

Regarding Amento even with the current events I was going to try Amento and caffeine without anything else to see if I notice any changes , I never thought at any point thought Amento was bunk but the questions raised needed answers. As people have said Coop was into it before PES used it so I never thought he just made it up lol. I still might try it, possibly try different different dosages and see what happens. I will wait for a sale though as you know the UK is expensive

 

[hardknock]

I will also admit I don't support the 36 scoop/18 serving bit of wordplay by PES or anyone else, and it's a shame it's the name of the game in the industry. Despite what people think, I don't think PES can do no wrong. It's not technically wrong, but it just opens up the door for less informed users to be misled. As long as you still know what you are paying for though, I can live with it.

I will however say this, with both HV and Alphamine, I never needed to use the recommended servings, so the "wordplay" has a bit more substance to it, bc it seems to truly be the maximum dosage, rather than just effective dosage(for me at least). Perhaps an 18-36 serving label would be more accurate in the future?

It's 36 damn servings or uses....what is it about that can you not understand? It's YOUR decision to use 2, 3 or 1 scoop. Some people only use 1 serving. Some people only need 1 serving.

No one is trying to play you or trick you or pull your c% ck...it is as stated.

 

[mw1]

I only use half a scoop so I get 72 servings. ...you mad. ???

 

[NoAddedHmones]

People will always find something to whinge about, solely for the sake of whinging, how in hell is 36 scoops misleading?? Does HV not contain 36 scoops?

 

[luckylefty811]

This is expected yet always nice to hear.

Which is your favourite HV flavour?

im a blueberry guy same with amino iv dunno why when i mix alphamine RL is like heaven man for me.

 

[Young Gotti]

i like the looks of this, even though i prefer potassium nitrates over any other nitrate product, notropics in a pump product is pretty good for mind muscle connection

 

[mr.cooper69]

DarthGainer, you can email me at [email protected] if you have personal questions about products. The amento thread blew up over the holiday season when I was out of town. The night I posted in it, I was literally driving for 3 hours and using Siri to dictate all of my posts on my iphone, including some of the ones that nattydisaster quoted. When I was settled, I saw a lot of personal attacks, not here but on other forums. Like full on character assassination of myself when I literally had done nothing and was minding my own business/tending to my personal life. Nonetheless, I did reply professionally and have continued to do so, despite open defamation by a few parties.

If anything remains unanswered, please email me.

 

[Force of Green]

High Volume + Thunderbolt + Pump Spray = Can't get the pump to stop.

 

[DarthGainer]

Coop thanks very much and to all the other reps I apologise if i came across as hostile it was not my intention at all.
I don't think in anyway I was being unreasonable and the same for some other posters but some go to far. I also don't think there is any need for posters to be hostile towards PES but discussing things that are a concern to the community that have supported PES is a must IMO.

Also just to make Clear once more I have never said Amento is Bunk and I still want to try it seperate to HV/Norco.

 

[mw1]

DarthGainer, you can email me at [email protected] if you have personal questions about products. The amento thread blew up over the holiday season when I was out of town. The night I posted in it, I was literally driving for 3 hours and using Siri to dictate all of my posts on my iphone, including some of the ones that nattydisaster quoted. When I was settled, I saw a lot of personal attacks, not here but on other forums. Like full on character assassination of myself when I literally had done nothing and was minding my own business/tending to my personal life. Nonetheless, I did reply professionally and have continued to do so, despite open defamation by a few parties.

If anything remains unanswered, please email me.

mr.cooper69 I figured you weren't replying cause she had you whipped already. . Jk

 

[SwolenONE]

High Volume + Thunderbolt + Pump Spray = Can't get the pump to stop.

Im using Thunderbolt now and enjoying it quite a bit.

 

[Afi140]

Im using Thunderbolt now and enjoying it quite a bit.

that's next on my list. Anything to compare it to? I like capsules... sometimes all the liquid is too much

 

[Force of Green]

that's next on my list. Anything to compare it to? I like capsules... sometimes all the liquid is too much

Apparently it has the only available otc pharmaceutical vasodilator. I am aware that different forms of arginine have benefits due to whatever it's bonded to. They provide a dose of 1500mg arginine butyrate per serving. I've used Thunderbolt before and once by itself as far as including anything else for 'pumps'. Roadmap vascularity!