Going to be a swole recovery.... with Lean Gains

DreamWeaver said:
It's the opposite for me, I am much more energetic and happier. I am sleeping better too. Now this is compared to a regular cut. I can't say what will happen when I increase the calories and try to gain back a little weight. Good things I would assume though.
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I think the hardest thing for people to get past is the hunger which I believe is just a conditioned response for the most part. When we have been eating breakfast and lunch for the past 30 years and we happen to miss those morning feedings typically we get the "Im starving" feeling but as we know we really aren't starving and are far from it.

The energetic feelings we get from fasting is our bodies normal response to it. When you are in a fasted state it signals cAMP (cyclic adenosine monophosphate) production which results in the feeling of being alert and energetic. Also by being in a fasted state for the majority of our day the sympathetic nervous system becomes dominant and blood sugar levels remain stable.

It is no surprise that once we overcome the "hunger" feeling we feel energetic, clear-minded and wide awake during the day
 
JudoJosh said:
I think the hardest thing for people to get past is the hunger which I believe is just a conditioned response for the most part. When we have been eating breakfast and lunch for the past 30 years and we happen to miss those morning feedings typically we get the "Im starving" feeling but as we know we really aren't starving and are far from it.

The energetic feelings we get from fasting is our bodies normal response to it. When you are in a fasted state it signals cAMP (cyclic adenosine monophosphate) production which results in the feeling of being alert and energetic. Also by being in a fasted state for the majority of our day the sympathetic nervous system becomes dominant and blood sugar levels remain stable.

It is no surprise that once we overcome the "hunger" feeling we feel energetic, clear-minded and wide awake during the day
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I totally agree with you Josh, every time I start a diet, about 10 days into it when all my sugar/carb cravings subside and my body acclimates to my new way of eating, I start feeling way better, energized, better training sessions, better sleep at night, more clarity and feeling of being awake during the day, etc. Excellent Point!!!
 
SweetLou321 said:
Yea i was bulking when i started and kept the same cal levels. Idk ill try it again in the future when i cut and have recomp goals. Its neat stuff
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Yah bulking is still a black box, I would only ever do a very lean bulk anywiay... I can't imagine how many cals it would take cuz you can eat so much more on this regine...

edwitt said:
Looking good
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Thanks Ed and welcome, hey will start up another big contest log in about 6-8 weeks...

ScottyDoc said:
Love me some Jalapenos.... Look at my last post on BIGLIFTER85's Eating Challenge forum.... Invalid Link Removed
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I can't watch another one of those eating contests, makes me fuggin hungry...

JudoJosh said:
I think the hardest thing for people to get past is the hunger which I believe is just a conditioned response for the most part. When we have been eating breakfast and lunch for the past 30 years and we happen to miss those morning feedings typically we get the "Im starving" feeling but as we know we really aren't starving and are far from it.

The energetic feelings we get from fasting is our bodies normal response to it. When you are in a fasted state it signals cAMP (cyclic adenosine monophosphate) production which results in the feeling of being alert and energetic. Also by being in a fasted state for the majority of our day the sympathetic nervous system becomes dominant and blood sugar levels remain stable.

It is no surprise that once we overcome the "hunger" feeling we feel energetic, clear-minded and wide awake during the day
Click to expand...

Yah I knew the body had to adjust somehow, it feels so natural to me. Again I will use the hunter gatherer scenario, chances are breakfast was not there when you got up.. you had to go out and get it and that was a lot of work on an empty stomach. Fasting is part of our nature, or part of mine...

ScottyDoc said:
I totally agree with you Josh, every time I start a diet, about 10 days into it when all my sugar/carb cravings subside and my body acclimates to my new way of eating, I start feeling way better, energized, better training sessions, better sleep at night, more clarity and feeling of being awake during the day, etc. Excellent Point!!!
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My problem was time constraints forced me into a scenario where I had to go lower in cals and higher in exercise than what I was ready for. If I had used this method I would have avoided most of that...
 
I don't think IF is for everyone but i think it is probably closer to universal than most people would think. For others something like the Warrior Diet where there is not a true fasting period so much as a calorie deprived period probably works better for some.

Some peoples hormonal make up is just not going to do well on a fasting protocol.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I don't think IF is for everyone but i think it is probably closer to universal than most people would think. For others something like the Warrior Diet where there is not a true fasting period so much as a calorie deprived period probably works better for some.

Some peoples hormonal make up is just not going to do well on a fasting protocol.
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Yah people with very high metabolisms who have a hard time eating big, need to eat more frequently... you have to eat for who you are, it's that simple.
 
DreamWeaver said:
Yah people with very high metabolisms who have a hard time eating big, need to eat more frequently... you have to eat for who you are, it's that simple.
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All I know is I'm not in any way knocking it, first off I have not even tried it, looks very interesting to me and I do plan on trying it myself to see if it is right for me and as always I'll start a log and document everything. Second, I totally agree with MRKLEEN, I'll just say it this way... "Different strokes for different Folks!"
 
ScottyDoc said:
All I know is I'm not in any way knocking it, first off I have not even tried it, looks very interesting to me and I do plan on trying it myself to see if it is right for me and as always I'll start a log and document everything. Second, I totally agree with MRKLEEN, I'll just say it this way... "Different strokes for different Folks!"
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yah some people were just built for it. I have been eating for someone elses body type most of my life, especially in bodybuilding. Small meals a) never satisfied me b) I got more insulin spikes giving more cravings. c) Just ran the total up on my calories so if I did fall off the wagon the effect was always substantial and I had no recourse.
 
Hey I know this is slightly off the subject, but on subject as far as diets and dieting goes. Has anyone here had any experience with an older style of dieting called "Eat Right for your Blood Type" ???
 
ScottyDoc said:
Hey I know this is slightly off the subject, but on subject as far as diets and dieting goes. Has anyone here had any experience with an older style of dieting called "Eat Right for your Blood Type" ???
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I have a friend who is doing a holistic thing like that and they have got her on very low protein.
 
DreamWeaver said:
I have a friend who is doing a holistic thing like that and they have got her on very low protein.
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.....the minute you combine the words "low" and "protein" for anyone who is athletic i start doubting...big time.

For a sedentary individual who does NO physical activity then low protein (between 50-70g) can suite most sedentary individuals. Since they arent concerned with muscle mass, strength, anabolism, etc etc...50-70grams is enough to carry out proper biological function.
 
GoHardOrGoHme said:
.....the minute you combine the words "low" and "protein" for anyone who is athletic i start doubting...big time.

For a sedentary individual who does NO physical activity then low protein (between 50-70g) can suite most sedentary individuals. Since they arent concerned with muscle mass, strength, anabolism, etc etc...50-70grams is enough to carry out proper biological function.
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Hey I totally agree, I was just asking because when I was in Chiropractic school, that book was the big rave at the school, supported by most of our Nutrition Professors with different levels of Nutrition degrees. From my memory of reading the book, it basically explained that different blood types share similarities in body chemistries that can function better on different diets. Kind of like how some of us can eat all the carbs, fat & sugar we want and stay lean as can be, while others blow up like balloons, just as one example!
 
ScottyDoc said:
Hey I know this is slightly off the subject, but on subject as far as diets and dieting goes. Has anyone here had any experience with an older style of dieting called "Eat Right for your Blood Type" ???
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I think I read into that a bit but I did not hold on to any of the knowledge which means at the time I deemed it of no importance. Now eat for your hormone type, I would be all about that one. I am not sure if there are tons of traits that people share just simply due to blood type. I think eating towards your traits would be more beneficial than eating towards just a blood type.

Interestingly enough though I do hold some merit to the beleif that the positioning of your incisors tells a lot of how your body is set up for digestion. According to studies those who are better digesting meats and what not, or carnivores primarliy have rear angling teeth made more for tearing flesh off of the bone. Alternatively omnivore and herbivore types have teeth that are straight up and down or even stick out a bit. Better for biting and sheering vegetation off of trees and what not. I know I am a meatasaurus and my teeth angle back. I do much better when I concentrate on mostly meats and some veggies.
 
ScottyDoc said:
Hey I totally agree, I was just asking because when I was in Chiropractic school, that book was the big rave at the school, supported by most of our Nutrition Professors with different levels of Nutrition degrees. From my memory of reading the book, it basically explained that different blood types share similarities in body chemistries that can function better on different diets. Kind of like how some of us can eat all the carbs, fat & sugar we want and stay lean as can be, while others blow up like balloons, just as one example!
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My mother inlaw has the book, I dont know how credible the book is or what it says but she swears by it. I may borrow it from her and give it a read through
 
MrKleen73 said:
I think I read into that a bit but I did not hold on to any of the knowledge which means at the time I deemed it of no importance. Now eat for your hormone type, I would be all about that one. I am not sure if there are tons of traits that people share just simply due to blood type. I think eating towards your traits would be more beneficial than eating towards just a blood type.

Interestingly enough though I do hold some merit to the beleif that the positioning of your incisors tells a lot of how your body is set up for digestion. According to studies those who are better digesting meats and what not, or carnivores primarliy have rear angling teeth made more for tearing flesh off of the bone. Alternatively omnivore and herbivore types have teeth that are straight up and down or even stick out a bit. Better for biting and sheering vegetation off of trees and what not. I know I am a meatasaurus and my teeth angle back. I do much better when I concentrate on mostly meats and some veggies.
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Wow, that makes a ton of sense. So it is sort of an evolutionary process, as in we are all homosapien (human), but some of us have evolved to better digest/process certain foods and actually thrive off of one vs. the other! Me Likey!!! :deal:
 
There is only one tiny problem with basing assumptions off of the positioning of people's teeth is a great many of us have had braces, hell my dentist even filed down my top two canines a little bit to prevent them from hanging down so much lower than my other incisors and molars.
 
ScottyDoc said:
Hey I know this is slightly off the subject, but on subject as far as diets and dieting goes. Has anyone here had any experience with an older style of dieting called "Eat Right for your Blood Type" ???
Click to expand...

I looked at it and thought about it and didn't think it had any merit. I eat like a bodybuilder and it works for me. It changes from time to time as the body continuous change. (hormones, metabolism, etc)
 
MrKleen73 said:
I don't think IF is for everyone but i think it is probably closer to universal than most people would think. For others something like the Warrior Diet where there is not a true fasting period so much as a calorie deprived period probably works better for some.

Some peoples hormonal make up is just not going to do well on a fasting protocol.
Click to expand...

DreamWeaver said:
Yah people with very high metabolisms who have a hard time eating big, need to eat more frequently... you have to eat for who you are, it's that simple.
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Good points. If I do not eat after 4-5 hours I get an anxious feeling. Could be because I have been doing this for nine years now , even before I started eating this way I would feel strange. I possibly I could have hypoglycemia.

keep up the good work big Doug
 
GoHardOrGoHme said:
.....the minute you combine the words "low" and "protein" for anyone who is athletic i start doubting...big time.

For a sedentary individual who does NO physical activity then low protein (between 50-70g) can suite most sedentary individuals. Since they arent concerned with muscle mass, strength, anabolism, etc etc...50-70grams is enough to carry out proper biological function.
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Yah I told her all that but you know these people can be stubborn... like us... :ponder:

ScottyDoc said:
Hey I totally agree, I was just asking because when I was in Chiropractic school, that book was the big rave at the school, supported by most of our Nutrition Professors with different levels of Nutrition degrees. From my memory of reading the book, it basically explained that different blood types share similarities in body chemistries that can function better on different diets. Kind of like how some of us can eat all the carbs, fat & sugar we want and stay lean as can be, while others blow up like balloons, just as one example!
Click to expand...

I bet there is something there, these holistics are just taking the wrong context, a lot of bias against what we do...

MrKleen73 said:
I think I read into that a bit but I did not hold on to any of the knowledge which means at the time I deemed it of no importance. Now eat for your hormone type, I would be all about that one. I am not sure if there are tons of traits that people share just simply due to blood type. I think eating towards your traits would be more beneficial than eating towards just a blood type.

Interestingly enough though I do hold some merit to the beleif that the positioning of your incisors tells a lot of how your body is set up for digestion. According to studies those who are better digesting meats and what not, or carnivores primarliy have rear angling teeth made more for tearing flesh off of the bone. Alternatively omnivore and herbivore types have teeth that are straight up and down or even stick out a bit. Better for biting and sheering vegetation off of trees and what not. I know I am a meatasaurus and my teeth angle back. I do much better when I concentrate on mostly meats and some veggies.
Click to expand...

ScottyDoc said:
Wow, that makes a ton of sense. So it is sort of an evolutionary process, as in we are all homosapien (human), but some of us have evolved to better digest/process certain foods and actually thrive off of one vs. the other! Me Likey!!! :deal:
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Yah it does make some sense, like I said I think I am less evolved (and proud of it!!) and that's why fasting and gorging is food for me...

John Smeton said:
Good points. If I do not eat after 4-5 hours I get an anxious feeling. Could be because I have been doing this for nine years now , even before I started eating this way I would feel strange. I possibly I could have hypoglycemia.

keep up the good work big Doug
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Thanks John, yah it's just not for everyone....
 
I continue to do very well, I am pretty stoked. Did some posing today... shocking difference, even used my smaller trunks and it looks like I can pull it off... Gonna be a very cut summer culminating in a ripped and shredded early fall.. mark my words...
 
DreamWeaver said:
I continue to do very well, I am pretty stoked. Did some posing today... shocking difference, even used my smaller trunks and it looks like I can pull it off... Gonna be a very cut summer culminating in a ripped and shredded early fall.. mark my words...
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Excellent, I am glad Lean Gains is treating you so well. I am officially 200 lbs with abs showing. Now I just need to clean up more but recomping and gaining without putting on fat is so easy I am having a hard time restricting myself too much. I am experiencing muscle growth while not having any fat gain right now. I am also using my lover body days for the highest caloric intake days. I think Sundays I will do maintenance or whatever strikes me until I decide how fast I want to shred up. No need to stop the muscle memory from kicking ass with this method of eating but I am going to get a lot leaner at the same time.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Excellent, I am glad Lean Gains is treating you so well. I am officially 200 lbs with abs showing. Now I just need to clean up more but recomping and gaining without putting on fat is so easy I am having a hard time restricting myself too much. I am experiencing muscle growth while not having any fat gain right now. I am also using my lover body days for the highest caloric intake days. I think Sundays I will do maintenance or whatever strikes me until I decide how fast I want to shred up. No need to stop the muscle memory from kicking ass with this method of eating but I am going to get a lot leaner at the same time.
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Man isn't it nice to be eating the way we were born to after all these years...

200 and abs at 5'8" is awesome your only 9 lbs lighter than me....
 
DreamWeaver said:
Man isn't it nice to be eating the way we were born to after all these years...

200 and abs at 5'8" is awesome your only 9 lbs lighter than me....
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Like coming home!
 
MrKleen73 said:
Like coming home!
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Home sweet home, not to mention how fantastic I feel on the Swole/erase and Osta, what a great stack...

Today's Diet is...

1pm (stretched the fast a bit) 8 egg whites, 6 oz chicken breast
5pm 16 oz sirloin (oh boy), 2 medium baked spuds, 2 cups broccoli, 2 cups frozen yogurt..
7:30pm 1 can of tuna and 2 slices Ezekiel bread...
 
Late but IN!! Looks like I got a crap loading of reading to catch up.
 
freezito said:
Looking kick ass, tomorrow I start my journey
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Good luck, I know your excited about this....

jlinteris said:
Late but IN!! Looks like I got a crap loading of reading to catch up.
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Yah the meat is in the Lean Gains guide, but a lot of other really interesting reading...

freezito said:
Yes alot of reading, I've read and reread and read sum more
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Don't over complicate things, it's really a very simple protocol...
 
Ok pretty food workout, I continue to be conservative with the weight and concentrate on form, working my negatives. I gotta tell you this really works I am pretty damn sore. Up 5 lbs on all my lifts. Slow progression that's the ticket.

I seem to be a bit bigger, I'll weigh in tommorow so that will be interesting...

I continue to feel very good, never felt better.

Sunday's diet was...

12pm 8 egg whites, 6 oz. Chicken breast
2pm workout
3:30pm shake 2 scoops
5pm 3 large lean beef patties, 3 multigram flat bread buns, 2 cups frozen yogurt.
8pm 1 can tunu 2 pieces Ezekiel bread

Today will be...
12pm 12 oz chicken breast, 2 cups salad greens, balsamic vinegar
5pm 16 oz Sirloin, 2 cups brocolli, 2 medium baked potattos
8pm 1 can tuna, 2 pieces ezekiel bread

One thing I noticed again,today I was a bit watery again, and it's definitely a combination of the yogurt and salty foods but I will not use yogurt for a contest carb up... no dairy for me past 8 weeks out or so..
 
DreamWeaver said:
Ok pretty food workout, I continue to be conservative with the weight and concentrate on form, working my negatives. I gotta tell you this really works I am pretty damn sore. Up 5 lbs on all my lifts. Slow progression that's the ticket.

I seem to be a bit bigger, I'll weigh in tommorow so that will be interesting...

I continue to feel very good, never felt better.

Sunday's diet was...

12pm 8 egg whites, 6 oz. Chicken breast
2pm workout
3:30pm shake 2 scoops
5pm 3 large lean beef patties, 3 multigram flat bread buns, 2 cups frozen yogurt.
8pm 1 can tunu 2 pieces Ezekiel bread

Today will be...
12pm 12 oz chicken breast, 2 cups salad greens, balsamic vinegar
5pm 16 oz Sirloin, 2 cups brocolli, 2 medium baked potattos
8pm 1 can tuna, 2 pieces ezekiel bread

One thing I noticed again,today I was a bit watery again, and it's definitely a combination of the yogurt and salty foods but I will not use yogurt for a contest carb up... no dairy for me past 8 weeks out or so..
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The red meat could attribute to this as well. The high creatine content cause a little bit of extra water weight if you eat too much of it. 3Beef patties and a sirloin could have attributed to this. Maybe switch over to turkey burgers wit EVOO??
 
prld2gr8ns said:
The red meat could attribute to this as well. The high creatine content cause a little bit of extra water weight if you eat too much of it. 3Beef patties and a sirloin could have attributed to this. Maybe switch over to turkey burgers wit EVOO??
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Will be eating cleaner during prep yah so this should sort itself out. More fish and chicken...
 
A_I_Sports_Nutrition said:
I just love chicken and also turkey. I can never get enough.:32:
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I am not knocking the Turkey, because I love it as well, but for some reason it doesn't work well with me, not sure if it is the tryptophan or what, but it does not fill the void (hunger pangs) like chicken or fish will when I'm dieting. Maybe that's just me :fool2: I'm just weird like that!
 
A_I_Sports_Nutrition said:
I just love chicken and also turkey. I can never get enough.:32:
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ScottyDoc said:
I am not knocking the Turkey, because I love it as well, but for some reason it doesn't work well with me, not sure if it is the tryptophan or what, but it does not fill the void (hunger pangs) like chicken or fish will when I'm dieting. Maybe that's just me :fool2: I'm just weird like that!
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I am already eating quite a bit of chicken, will have to pick up the fish on prep but will also do some sirloins especially early on.
 
FYI Everyone... doing my trivia @ 3:00pm Eastern Standard Time Invalid Link Removed
 
Oh something I've noticed is an increase muscle volume when taking in meals without carbs. I had never noticed this happening before and I don't know whether it's the diet or Osta... not complaining though...
 
DreamWeaver said:
Oh something I've noticed is an increase muscle volume when taking in meals without carbs. I had never noticed this happening before and I don't know whether it's the diet or Osta... not complaining though...
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That is interesting, are you talking about a "pump" like effect? Because I have dieted down with no carbs during certain meals or even whole days and I personally never noticed a muscle pumping effect with that... curious to know more?
 
ScottyDoc said:
That is interesting, are you talking about a "pump" like effect? Because I have dieted down with no carbs during certain meals or even whole days and I personally never noticed a muscle pumping effect with that... curious to know more?
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Yah bigger tighter muscles both to the feel and to the eye...
 
DreamWeaver said:
Yah bigger tighter muscles both to the feel and to the eye...
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OK... I mean I totally believe you, must be one of your SUPs? But hey, like you said "I'll take it!" sounds like a good thing to me!
 
ScottyDoc said:
OK... I mean I totally believe you, must be one of your SUPs? But hey, like you said "I'll take it!" sounds like a good thing to me!
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Yah the Osta may be causing an increase in protein synthieis I guess... It has happened more than once...
 
DreamWeaver said:
Yah the Osta may be causing an increase in protein synthieis I guess... It has happened more than once...
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Hey... Maybe it's the Chicken... :lol: LoL!!!

Invalid Link Removed​
 
I think it is just the food. Remember that when you take in large amounts of protein whether you take carbs or not there is an insulemic reaction. The body shoots out Glucagen to balance the blood sugar, stimulate an insulin spike to shuttle the nitrients into your muscle. When it is a fast breaking meal that shuttling of nutrients becomes obvious whether carbs are taken in or not. As a matter of fact I get it now whether fasting meal or any other during the day if the meal was big enough.

Lots of protein = Lots of glucagen = Lots of nutrients getting to the muscle.

I think why it wouldn't be noticed in Al's situation was that he was not fasting nor was he taking in as much food at one sitting as you are.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I think it is just the food. Remember that when you take in large amounts of protein whether you take carbs or not there is an insulemic reaction. The body shoots out Glucagen to balance the blood sugar, stimulate an insulin spike to shuttle the nitrients into your muscle. When it is a fast breaking meal that shuttling of nutrients becomes obvious whether carbs are taken in or not. As a matter of fact I get it now whether fasting meal or any other during the day if the meal was big enough.

Lots of protein = Lots of glucagen = Lots of nutrients getting to the muscle.

I think why it wouldn't be noticed in Al's situation was that he was not fasting nor was he taking in as much food at one sitting as you are.
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Sounds like a good explanation...
 
DreamWeaver said:
I am already eating quite a bit of chicken, will have to pick up the fish on prep but will also do some sirloins especially early on.
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That is a good idea. You probally could be red meat all though.

In one of Jay Cutler old videos he says fish things the skin. So eatong fish toward the end may help a good.

No Tilipa for me unless I am broke, its farm raised and they feed them junk. I am convinced tilipa is actually bad for people. Get ocean fish. Cod is a good one. Orange Roughy, its so good and expensive.

Evan Centiponia(spelling) knows his fishes really well
 
John Smeton said:
That is a good idea. You probally could be red meat all though.

In one of Jay Cutler old videos he says fish things the skin. So eatong fish toward the end may help a good.

No Tilipa for me unless I am broke, its farm raised and they feed them junk. I am convinced tilipa is actually bad for people. Get ocean fish. Cod is a good one. Orange Roughy, its so good and expensive.

Evan Centiponia(spelling) knows his fishes really well
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Ocean fish is so toxic though... I tried and I got so sick from eating it... spent a lot of time in the bathroom.. Costco has some nice rainbow trout.
 
So it looks like it was the frozen yogurt making me hold water under my skin so I wil not use it in my carb up. I should have known better anyway. Lots of time though so I will continue to enjoy it. I seem to be a bit leaner and a little bigger. I hope this trend continues cuz I don't need to lose weight fast.
 
DreamWeaver said:
So it looks like it was the frozen yogurt making me hold water under my skin so I wil not use it in my carb up. I should have known better anyway. Lots of time though so I will continue to enjoy it. I seem to be a bit leaner and a little bigger. I hope this trend continues cuz I don't need to lose weight fast.
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Good stuff Doug, and don't worry about losing too fast as long as not losing muscle there is no too fast. Starting your prep at 6-7% is not a bad thing if that is where you are... Hell then it gives you time to play with things for 3-4 months. Maybe even add a lb or two of lbm while perfecting your peak week. Give you enough time to do 2 or 3 runs at it while being extremely lean so you can really tell what to tweak, and what makes the best differences.
 
DreamWeaver said:
Ocean fish is so toxic though... I tried and I got so sick from eating it... spent a lot of time in the bathroom.. Costco has some nice rainbow trout.
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I love rainbow trout!! But I dont get it very often, its mostly Tilapia for me on fish because I usually am a broke a$$ and I like to get my fish in bulk usually getting 5 or 6 lbs to put in the freezer
 
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