GDA Q and A
- Thread starter RecompMan
- Start date
RawStrength
Member
What is the optimal timing one should take berberine prior to a meal?
And is their a minimum or maximum amount of carbs one should consume for say per 500mg of berberine?
And is their a minimum or maximum amount of carbs one should consume for say per 500mg of berberine?
RecompMan
Well-known member
the best time is 30minutes prior to a meal. This has to due with the time it takes to prevent adipocyte differentiation...
i cant seem to find the figure im looking for (from a scientific article) that shows that time.. but...
Heres a great study
Invalid Link Removed
Along with saying this i would say 100mg berberine per 10g carb... but in all reality its pretty hard to determine those carbohydrate amounts without a blood glucose monitor
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
Seems like overkill to me. Recompadrol + ALA is more than enough in my opinion.
If I were to combine GDAs it would be slin sane, ALA and recompadrol
RecompMan
Well-known member
One of each for a tremendous meal would be ok. I would say its a good safety net.
As for glycobol solo, great product, but I don't want to comment on other the effectiveness on other products. If you want to break down ingredients we can go by ingredients
RawStrength
Member
Can you say how many mg of berberine are in each cap of recompadrol?
Or better yet, is there a maximum/minimum amount of carbs or calories one should shoot for per cap of recompadrol?
RecompMan
Well-known member
1 capsule of recompadrol, based on studies for 1 ingredient... corosolic acid, will control blood glucose for a meal of 75g carbohydrate. This recommendation however does not take into account the other ingredients.
for example... damage control 2 caps per 150 carbs.... for pump 1 cap per 100 carbs 2 hours prior to workout.
as for calories i use 2 caps per 900-1100 calories personally
Last edited:
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
100s? lol.. Quite the exaggeration there
T-Bone
Banned
Well there are a lot. I just want to know what would make this product stand out from the others?.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
Invalid Link Removed
RecompMan
Well-known member
TBone;
"Each ingredient serves a different function to help create a more favorable environment for weight gain or weight loss as well as the possibility of helping the parameters of metabolic syndrome. To say our product is superior to others is does not seem fair. Every body reacts different to each supplement what works for one may not work for another, however we urge you to try it and make a decision for yourself"
its important you look at the different mechanisms of each product and make a decision for yourself.
best way to find out if somethings better is to test against what you feel is the best.
"Each ingredient serves a different function to help create a more favorable environment for weight gain or weight loss as well as the possibility of helping the parameters of metabolic syndrome. To say our product is superior to others is does not seem fair. Every body reacts different to each supplement what works for one may not work for another, however we urge you to try it and make a decision for yourself"
its important you look at the different mechanisms of each product and make a decision for yourself.
best way to find out if somethings better is to test against what you feel is the best.
AaronJP1
Board Sponsor
I have a question...
GDA or Nutritent repartioner (main differences).... I believe SLINshot is consider both. I know some people have different meanings on what one is & I'd like to know examples of each.
SLINshot helps blood glucose clearance as well as facilitating the nutrients into the muscle, hence why I classify it as a GDA & Partioner.
GDA or Nutritent repartioner (main differences).... I believe SLINshot is consider both. I know some people have different meanings on what one is & I'd like to know examples of each.
SLINshot helps blood glucose clearance as well as facilitating the nutrients into the muscle, hence why I classify it as a GDA & Partioner.
RecompMan
Well-known member
Recompadrol was designed to e versatile. With that said many overweight people looking for better glycemic contr and weight loss may be on t4 (synthroid) and here's a study that deterred me from its use.
Invalid Link Removed
Along with ala being cheap and taking up a lot of the capsule spaw I felt it more beneficial without it
Invalid Link Removed
Along with ala being cheap and taking up a lot of the capsule spaw I felt it more beneficial without it
RecompMan
Well-known member
Many products function as both aaron
A GDA acts in glucose disposal as a means of tissue absorption and waste
An insulin mimetic is something that acts like insulin or solely on its pathway (pi3k)
A lot of products have more of one the. They other so they are all classifies in the same category
A GDA acts in glucose disposal as a means of tissue absorption and waste
An insulin mimetic is something that acts like insulin or solely on its pathway (pi3k)
A lot of products have more of one the. They other so they are all classifies in the same category
MAxximal
Well-known member
the versatility of the product.
mr.cooper69
Legend
If you're 450lbs of LBM, feel free to consume 10g leucine
Thoughts on this: Invalid Link Removed
Notice that the "normal" mice also suffered from significant muscle catabolism.
[h=4]CONCLUSIONS:[/h]
Berberine impairs muscle metabolism by two novel mechanisms. It impairs mitochonidrial function stimulating the expression of atrogin-1 without affecting phosphorylation of forkhead transcription factors. The increase in atrogin-1 not only stimulated protein degradation but also suppressed protein synthesis, causing muscle atrophy
mattrag
Legend
mr.cooper69 said:If you're 450lbs of LBM, feel free to consume 10g leucine
Thoughts on this: Invalid Link Removed
Notice that the "normal" mice also suffered from significant muscle catabolism.
[h=4]CONCLUSIONS:[/h]Berberine impairs muscle metabolism by two novel mechanisms. It impairs mitochonidrial function stimulating the expression of atrogin-1 without affecting phosphorylation of forkhead transcription factors. The increase in atrogin-1 not only stimulated protein degradation but also suppressed protein synthesis, causing muscle atrophy
Oh noes!!
I'm not 450 lbs of lbm... I do consume a lot of bcaas though.
Somedays I get 50g of it.
Interesting on the berberine. Makes you smaller. Man....
CJ_Xfit89
Board Sponsor
mr.cooper69 said:If you're 450lbs of LBM, feel free to consume 10g leucine
Thoughts on this: Invalid Link Removed
Notice that the "normal" mice also suffered from significant muscle catabolism.
[h=4]CONCLUSIONS:[/h]Berberine impairs muscle metabolism by two novel mechanisms. It impairs mitochonidrial function stimulating the expression of atrogin-1 without affecting phosphorylation of forkhead transcription factors. The increase in atrogin-1 not only stimulated protein degradation but also suppressed protein synthesis, causing muscle atrophy
Hmmmmm
uvawahoowa
Well-known member
As for berberine, wouldnt it's effects on inhibiting protein synthesis and increasing protein degradation be detrimental to a bluking/lean mass gain plan?
RecompMan
Well-known member
@uva,
Things like this are relative.
you see, ALA increases AMPk as well which reduces mTOR. Whats important is to supplement with additional leucine to kind of counteract that from happening. The body is all give and take, it works on checks and balances. Weight loss, and lifting in essence are catabolic, we need to fine tune our bodies to increase specific pathways favorable to our goals.
If there is something specific to berberine im missing here, please let me know.
Things like this are relative.
you see, ALA increases AMPk as well which reduces mTOR. Whats important is to supplement with additional leucine to kind of counteract that from happening. The body is all give and take, it works on checks and balances. Weight loss, and lifting in essence are catabolic, we need to fine tune our bodies to increase specific pathways favorable to our goals.
If there is something specific to berberine im missing here, please let me know.
mr.cooper69
Legend
I fully agree with the give and take. Downregulation of one pathway often means up-regulation of another. However, could you address the study I posted, as berberine's net effect seems to be muscle catabolism. I post this merely because berberine has a ton of effects that interest me (moreso for general health than activity in the gut).
RecompMan
Well-known member
sorry coop my comps not letting me qoute things.
as far as the atrogin.... i believe USP labs went over this in great detail heres the qoute
MulletSoldier replied with this:
"Great question!
I unfortunately do not have access to this full journal, so my commentary will be mostly speculative at this time. This being said, I will address the comments as best as possible.
As we see from the abstract, it appears that berberine extract-induced decreased muscle protein synthesis and increased muscle protein degradation is dependent on an increased expression of both atrogin-1, a key proteolytic gene present in a variety of catabolic states, and eIF3-f, a key component of the mTOR activation pathway. At first blush, this obviously appears to be indefensibly negative, as the atrogin-1 induction was not dependent upon the Atk/PI3K transcription pathway, and is thus entirely the result of berberine.
With that being said, we need to remember an important fact: these were diabetic mice. Insulin resistance is often associated with an increased in the activity of the ubiquitin-proteasome proteolytic pathway, and in particular, the expression of atrogin-1 to promote muscle atrophy. The mechanisms here are complex, but for a reference, the expression of both atrogin-1 and atrogin-1 transcription promoters have been shown to be increased by 15 fold in insulin resistant states."
as far as the atrogin.... i believe USP labs went over this in great detail heres the qoute
MulletSoldier replied with this:
"Great question!
I unfortunately do not have access to this full journal, so my commentary will be mostly speculative at this time. This being said, I will address the comments as best as possible.
As we see from the abstract, it appears that berberine extract-induced decreased muscle protein synthesis and increased muscle protein degradation is dependent on an increased expression of both atrogin-1, a key proteolytic gene present in a variety of catabolic states, and eIF3-f, a key component of the mTOR activation pathway. At first blush, this obviously appears to be indefensibly negative, as the atrogin-1 induction was not dependent upon the Atk/PI3K transcription pathway, and is thus entirely the result of berberine.
With that being said, we need to remember an important fact: these were diabetic mice. Insulin resistance is often associated with an increased in the activity of the ubiquitin-proteasome proteolytic pathway, and in particular, the expression of atrogin-1 to promote muscle atrophy. The mechanisms here are complex, but for a reference, the expression of both atrogin-1 and atrogin-1 transcription promoters have been shown to be increased by 15 fold in insulin resistant states."
RecompMan
Well-known member
One more thing i have to comment on...
Diabetics have increased expression of a lot more genes than we do. I dont think that atrogin levels in normal, non diabetic humans play a role in this.
Id like to see how other things like ALA, due to increases in AMPk, affect atrogin and muscle protein synthesis. We alreaqdy do know that it affect mTOR.
I will indeed look into this further, and coop, if you can as well on the Atrogin-1 levels of normal vs diabetic humans. Im sure we can collectively come up with an answer
Diabetics have increased expression of a lot more genes than we do. I dont think that atrogin levels in normal, non diabetic humans play a role in this.
Id like to see how other things like ALA, due to increases in AMPk, affect atrogin and muscle protein synthesis. We alreaqdy do know that it affect mTOR.
I will indeed look into this further, and coop, if you can as well on the Atrogin-1 levels of normal vs diabetic humans. Im sure we can collectively come up with an answer
mr.cooper69
Legend
No problem man, thanks for the response.
Unfortunately, this quote is inaccurate because non-diabetic mice also experienced muscle catabolism. Atrogin-1 expression was not the culprit.
I've been looking into it as well because berberine holds a lot of promise as a multi-dimensional ingredient, but it's tough to start using it when this particular study is in direct conflict with the goals of a bodybuilder.
RecompMan
Well-known member
completely agree! however you need to look at it as its effects on mTOR, PGC-1a, and AMPk
These are down regulated with an antagonism of PPARy. This is conducive to weight loss. Its very near impossible in a catabolic state to keep mTOR up, this is due to the effects Akt has on adipogenesis and glucogenesis, and protein synthesis
These are down regulated with an antagonism of PPARy. This is conducive to weight loss. Its very near impossible in a catabolic state to keep mTOR up, this is due to the effects Akt has on adipogenesis and glucogenesis, and protein synthesis
RawStrength
Member
What is the best ingredient (berberine, banaba, vandyl sulfate, ALA, gymnea, etc) for keeping blood sugar level while eating higher GI carbs?
I eat white rice and red potatoes as my stachy carbs (cant stand brown rice or plain oatmeal) so what can I take to prevent my blood sugar from spiking?
I eat white rice and red potatoes as my stachy carbs (cant stand brown rice or plain oatmeal) so what can I take to prevent my blood sugar from spiking?
AaronJP1
Board Sponsor
I'm curious how people feel about high GI vs. Low GI because most people feel different based on the type of carbs they eat. Ultimately I think it would only be an issue if you were diabetic or had a lethargic feeing after a certain type of carb.
I posted this in another thread figured I'd post here.
Is my thought process correct or am I off with the above posting/statement?
I posted this in another thread figured I'd post here.
Is my thought process correct or am I off with the above posting/statement?
RecompMan
Well-known member
AaronJP1 said:
Type ones can usually eat what they want
Type 2 diabetics have more underlying issues like resistance in the liver in which insulin cannot block FOX01. This means the bodies liver will continue to relate glucose
I personally feel high gi. Insulin levels spike and return to normal faster allowing increased fat burning potential.
It can be argued the other way as well
30g carbs equals 30g carbs. Your body will secrete the same amount of Insulin to carry that load just over different periods of time