FORMERON FAQ
- Thread starter brundel
- Start date
JD261985
Banned
I just remember that one MMA fighter who failed his drug test for 4 hydroxytest. I was confused because I thought it left the system quickly. Idk maybe the guy was just dumb and didn't give it any time to clear his system at all who knows...
mr.cooper69
Legend
That's why you shouldn't just be looking at the metabolites of formestane, but also the metabolites of 4-hydroxytest
brundel
Board Sponsor
Im not even sure what they are but they certainly could also ping on a test.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Just because hes an athlete doesnt mean he knows everything about performance enhancing compounds.
He may have been using Formestane and applied shortly before his competition or he may have actually been using hydroxytest which is a great strength compound. Hard to say. Either way its likely he wasnt thinking hed be tested.
Steroids are as widespread in MMA as they are in any sport where strength and endurance play a huge factor.
There are tons of reports if you google it. Im not gonna link em because many lead to other forums and sites.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Sorry I must have missed this.
I dont have any preference for tongkat.
Give me a few days Ill see if I can set it up so I can sell a limited supply of what we have in stock.
Ill do my very best to keep the price set lower than the market price. Might have to be bags of raw tongkat though.
I just dont feel like capping it all by hand.
Mission1
Well-known member
I'm very interested... In in.
kisaj
Legend
BigGame84
Well-known member
Cap it and I'll buy it, even if the price is higher because it's capped.
Piston Honda
Well-known member
Same here
brundel
Board Sponsor
Ok,
So Ill work on it this week. It will likely take 2 weeks to get things together. I need to order bottles and labels and the like.
Also Ill work on pricing. The first thing to take into consideration is a good % of the tongkat on the market is fake/bunk.
So you see 10$ for 30g...its not something you want to eat. The higher quality stuff is expensive.
Ill need to look at the higher quality products like the well known standardized extracts. Well work on price from there.
Ill make sure ours is lower so we offer the best product for the best price. This will leave no reason to buy anything else.
Second when I make the tongkat Ill start making a batch of the new test/free test product. Once I get the stuff out Ill start talking about the SERM.
Its comparable to tamoxifen at the right doses and is used by cancer patients who only want to put natural substances in their system. VERY good stuff.
In addition we went to great lengths to improve bioavailability. I think youll like it.
So Ill work on it this week. It will likely take 2 weeks to get things together. I need to order bottles and labels and the like.
Also Ill work on pricing. The first thing to take into consideration is a good % of the tongkat on the market is fake/bunk.
So you see 10$ for 30g...its not something you want to eat. The higher quality stuff is expensive.
Ill need to look at the higher quality products like the well known standardized extracts. Well work on price from there.
Ill make sure ours is lower so we offer the best product for the best price. This will leave no reason to buy anything else.
Second when I make the tongkat Ill start making a batch of the new test/free test product. Once I get the stuff out Ill start talking about the SERM.
Its comparable to tamoxifen at the right doses and is used by cancer patients who only want to put natural substances in their system. VERY good stuff.
In addition we went to great lengths to improve bioavailability. I think youll like it.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Standardised water-soluble extract of Eurycoma longifolia, Tongkat ali, as testosterone booster for managing men with late-onset hypogonadism?
Tambi MI, Imran MK, Henkel RR.
Author information
Abstract
In most countries, millions of people are relying on herbal medicines as remedy for numerous ailments. In South-East Asia, Eurycoma longifolia Jack, also known as 'Malaysian ginseng' or Tongkat ali, is used to combat stress and disease and to improve physical strength. Moreover, the compounds of the roots of this plant are reported to have aphrodisiac and testosterone enhancing effects in the rat. Considering that human studies are not available, 76 of 320 patients suffering from late-onset hypogonadism (LOH) were given 200 mg of a standardised water-soluble extract of Tongkat ali for 1 month. The Ageing Males' Symptoms (AMS) according to the standardised rating scale and the serum testosterone concentration were taken. Results show that treatment of LOH patients with this Tongkat ali extract significantly (P < 0.0001) improved the AMS score as well as the serum testosterone concentration. While before treatment only 10.5% of the patients did not show any complaint according to the AMS scale and 35.5% had normal testosterone levels, after the completed treatment 71.7% and 90.8% of the patients showed normal values, respectively. Thus, Tongkat ali extract appears to be useful as a supplement in overcoming the symptoms of LOH and for the management of hypogonadism.
Tambi MI, Imran MK, Henkel RR.
Author information
Abstract
In most countries, millions of people are relying on herbal medicines as remedy for numerous ailments. In South-East Asia, Eurycoma longifolia Jack, also known as 'Malaysian ginseng' or Tongkat ali, is used to combat stress and disease and to improve physical strength. Moreover, the compounds of the roots of this plant are reported to have aphrodisiac and testosterone enhancing effects in the rat. Considering that human studies are not available, 76 of 320 patients suffering from late-onset hypogonadism (LOH) were given 200 mg of a standardised water-soluble extract of Tongkat ali for 1 month. The Ageing Males' Symptoms (AMS) according to the standardised rating scale and the serum testosterone concentration were taken. Results show that treatment of LOH patients with this Tongkat ali extract significantly (P < 0.0001) improved the AMS score as well as the serum testosterone concentration. While before treatment only 10.5% of the patients did not show any complaint according to the AMS scale and 35.5% had normal testosterone levels, after the completed treatment 71.7% and 90.8% of the patients showed normal values, respectively. Thus, Tongkat ali extract appears to be useful as a supplement in overcoming the symptoms of LOH and for the management of hypogonadism.
brundel
Board Sponsor
J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2013 May 26;10(1):28. doi: 10.1186/1550-2783-10-28.
Effect of Tongkat Ali on stress hormones and psychological mood state in moderately stressed subjects.
Talbott SM, Talbott JA, George A, Pugh M.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Eurycoma longifolia is a medicinal plant commonly called tongkat ali (TA) and "Malaysian ginseng." TA roots are a traditional "anti-aging" remedy and modern supplements are intended to improve libido, energy, sports performance and weight loss. Previous studies have shown properly-standardized TA to stimulate release of free testosterone, improve sex drive, reduce fatigue, and improve well-being.
METHODS:
We assessed stress hormones and mood state in 63 subjects (32 men and 31 women) screened for moderate stress and supplemented with a standardized hot-water extract of TA root (TA) or Placebo (PL) for 4 weeks. Analysis of variance (ANOVA) with significance set at p < 0.05 was used to determine differences between groups.
RESULTS:
Significant improvements were found in the TA group for Tension (-11%), Anger (-12%), and Confusion (-15%). Stress hormone profile (salivary cortisol and testosterone) was significantly improved by TA supplementation, with reduced cortisol exposure (-16%) and increased testosterone status (+37%).
CONCLUSION:
These results indicate that daily supplementation with tongkat ali root extract improves stress hormone profile and certain mood state parameters, suggesting that this "ancient" remedy may be an effective approach to shielding the body from the detrimental effects of "modern" chronic stress, which may include general day-to-day stress, as well as the stress of dieting, sleep deprivation, and exercise training.
Invalid Link Removed
Effect of Tongkat Ali on stress hormones and psychological mood state in moderately stressed subjects.
Talbott SM, Talbott JA, George A, Pugh M.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Eurycoma longifolia is a medicinal plant commonly called tongkat ali (TA) and "Malaysian ginseng." TA roots are a traditional "anti-aging" remedy and modern supplements are intended to improve libido, energy, sports performance and weight loss. Previous studies have shown properly-standardized TA to stimulate release of free testosterone, improve sex drive, reduce fatigue, and improve well-being.
METHODS:
We assessed stress hormones and mood state in 63 subjects (32 men and 31 women) screened for moderate stress and supplemented with a standardized hot-water extract of TA root (TA) or Placebo (PL) for 4 weeks. Analysis of variance (ANOVA) with significance set at p < 0.05 was used to determine differences between groups.
RESULTS:
Significant improvements were found in the TA group for Tension (-11%), Anger (-12%), and Confusion (-15%). Stress hormone profile (salivary cortisol and testosterone) was significantly improved by TA supplementation, with reduced cortisol exposure (-16%) and increased testosterone status (+37%).
CONCLUSION:
These results indicate that daily supplementation with tongkat ali root extract improves stress hormone profile and certain mood state parameters, suggesting that this "ancient" remedy may be an effective approach to shielding the body from the detrimental effects of "modern" chronic stress, which may include general day-to-day stress, as well as the stress of dieting, sleep deprivation, and exercise training.
Invalid Link Removed
ahh123
Active member
I like how free T product is evolving into production soon.
Too bad I'm from Europe or else I'd be also in for buying raw tongkat in caps cause caps in a bottle of multivitamin it's so easy to carry when travel with planes (while having raw herb might be suspicious during airport check up).
Hopefully before May 2014 you'll have it at UK distributors or else I might make an exception and order from US and go through hassle of filling out custom forms.
Too bad I'm from Europe or else I'd be also in for buying raw tongkat in caps cause caps in a bottle of multivitamin it's so easy to carry when travel with planes (while having raw herb might be suspicious during airport check up).
Hopefully before May 2014 you'll have it at UK distributors or else I might make an exception and order from US and go through hassle of filling out custom forms.
SquatsAndOats
Active member
Hey brundel I was wondering if you could shed some info as to what's going on here. I got bloods back and nothing in them that I know of would indicate sensitive nipples.
I've been on formeron for just over a week at 1 pump a day and letro 2.5mg for about a week. I haven't even started prolactrone yet as it's still in the mail.
I'm having trouble attaching pics from my phone as it wants me to resize but here are my blood results:
Testosterone Serum: 1069 Ref. range: 348-1197ng/dl
LH: 6.9 Ref. Range: 1.7-8.6 mIU/ml
FSH: 5.4 Ref. Range: 1.5-12.4 mIU/ml
Prolactin: 2.1 Ref. Range: 4.0-15.2 ng/ml
Estradiol: 12.4 Ref. range: 7.6-42.6 pg/ml
I have no clue as to why I'm getting symptoms with these blood test results? Maybe the letro still needs to kick in? I've heard that it takes up to 60 days to reach blood plasma levels but I'm getting sore joints from typing this out...
I've been on formeron for just over a week at 1 pump a day and letro 2.5mg for about a week. I haven't even started prolactrone yet as it's still in the mail.
I'm having trouble attaching pics from my phone as it wants me to resize but here are my blood results:
Testosterone Serum: 1069 Ref. range: 348-1197ng/dl
LH: 6.9 Ref. Range: 1.7-8.6 mIU/ml
FSH: 5.4 Ref. Range: 1.5-12.4 mIU/ml
Prolactin: 2.1 Ref. Range: 4.0-15.2 ng/ml
Estradiol: 12.4 Ref. range: 7.6-42.6 pg/ml
I have no clue as to why I'm getting symptoms with these blood test results? Maybe the letro still needs to kick in? I've heard that it takes up to 60 days to reach blood plasma levels but I'm getting sore joints from typing this out...
brundel
Board Sponsor
Is tongkat illegal in the UK? We do have UK distributors.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Ok so....looks to me like everything is working fine.
estro is low.
prl is low
test is high
LH is relatively high indicating the signal from your brain to the balls is on. As long as estro remains low test will remain high.
My prescription to you. STOP TOUCHING YOUR NIPPLES!
Constantly squeezing and touching them irritates them and causes swelling.
There is no gyno present. Period.
This happens more than you might think. Guys read a bunch of stuff online about gyno symptoms and hypochondria sets in. So they squeeze and pinch the nipples until they ARE sensitive but its you doing it lol.
Gyno feels like glass under the nipples.
You dont even need the Prolactrone. Your PRL is 2.1
I am surprised estro is not lower considering the letro but...it may not be letro. MIght be another AI. EIther way its working well enough to keep estro down and test up.
Everything is fine my friend. Just stop tripping out about it.
Thats like the perfect bloodwork result.
SquatsAndOats
Active member
Haha okay ill stop touching them. Letro is cipla i feel like it would be bunk rather than another AI if anything. With regards to the prolactrone would it be okay to take it for the GH and sleep benefits even though my prolactin is low? I'm 21 so how much do you think formeron is raising my test at 1 pump a day for a week if you were to guess. I would love to keep taking it for as long as possible as well as I keep PRing on squats.
brundel
Board Sponsor
1pump is a very low dose. Absolute min dose.
There was a guy whose total test level was 81 and after 6 days at 1 pump his test level rose to 700. So...if your levels are low it will help to raise them. You levels are relatively high so....im not sure how much help it is. I do know that currently your bloodwork is very favorable so...maybe just keep on the current program for a bit. If you start feeling depressed or achy joints back off the ai supps.
As for the prolactrone you certainly can use it just for mood and sleep and hgh boost. I take some every day amd my prl is 5.
SquatsAndOats
Active member
Awesome brundel thanks for the help brundel
koi1214
Well-known member
I am in for the tongkat caps. Heck I'll even take the powder. ETA on the test product?
BigGame84
Well-known member
Yeah, I'd much prefer caps.
koi1214
Well-known member
hey what are you getting at???
You heard the man.It is very strong and do not over do it!:lmao:
brundel
Board Sponsor
hey what are you getting at???
I sent some kanna extract to a friend of mine recently. For those who dont know Kanna is an SSRI with euphoric properties.
I told him take 50mg. He took a pinch between 3 fingers instead of taking 3 sec to weigh it.
He was hallucinating and vomiting.
Now I dont think the tongkat will do THAT^^ to you but it certainly could crank blood pressure up which is dangerous for some people.
This is why source naturals has 81mg tabs.
Another well known company has 25mg caps.
Ours will be dosed higher but I dont plan on going over 250mg and Ill recommend 1 cap per day.
If you take more its up to you. I take 100mg and feel it alot so...there is likely no need for 500mg.
raiderdude
New member
I would buy a capped version
flightposite
Board Sponsor
You already know I'm in brundel.
brundel
Board Sponsor
The higher end stuff is pretty expensive but Im certain I can beat the price.
Ill do 250mg caps.
We can do 60 or 90 or 120 even but obviously the more caps the more expensive. 120 would give 60x 500mg or 30g tongkat. Thats a TON of product to be in a supp so it makes sense its expensive when its real.
Maybe we should do 60x and keep the price lower?
What do you guys think?
Also as a spoiler. Ive been working on a line of gym gear. Shorts, compression shirts all kinds of stuff.
There is a lack of gear specifically designed for us. So....Im doing it.
Id like your guys opinions on the designs as we get closer.
Ill do 250mg caps.
We can do 60 or 90 or 120 even but obviously the more caps the more expensive. 120 would give 60x 500mg or 30g tongkat. Thats a TON of product to be in a supp so it makes sense its expensive when its real.
Maybe we should do 60x and keep the price lower?
What do you guys think?
Also as a spoiler. Ive been working on a line of gym gear. Shorts, compression shirts all kinds of stuff.
There is a lack of gear specifically designed for us. So....Im doing it.
Id like your guys opinions on the designs as we get closer.
ahh123
Active member
I think 1 cap at 250mg per day should be enough so 5 days on/2 days off regimen for 1 month you'd need 20 caps/month so even 60 caps bottle would last you 3 months.
Even if you'd take 8 weeks on/4 weeks off then for 3 months cycle you'd need 40 caps so I'd actually be interested in you making a 40 caps bottle.
Then price per 1 month of cycle would be 1/3rd of a bottle cost so could be even below $20/month - hard to beat this price by any competitors.
Even test bottles of 20 caps would last you then 4 weeks or for those wanting 2 caps per day a 2 weeks trial run.
And UK and entire EU is OK with tongkat products - like I told you for tongkatfitness site they even have a GMP facility in UK that cap their tongkat that they ship domestically all over EU, US, Canada and Australia.
You can send me PM to tell me how to order tongkat from your distributor in UK since links to non sponsored merchants are not allowed/tolerated on this forum.
koi1214
Well-known member
Great post but why the 5 days on/2 days off?
koi1214
Well-known member
I'm not brundul but is best taken all at once in the morning.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Once in the morn.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Once we get product to the UK I can send you links. THis will likely be months away though. All of our UK distributors are listed on our where to buy page on the BLR website. All of our retailers are not up there but the UK guys are.
I think well likely do 60 caps. This will keep the price relatively low. There are guys selling 120 caps but the bottle is 90-100$
Granted Im not gonna rape you guys on the price like that but itll still be pricey.
raiderdude
New member
what is the ETA? couple weeks?
brundel
Board Sponsor
On the tongkat? Yes. I ordered supplies yesterday.
Ive gotta do labels which takes a bit.
And im waiting on a quote for bulk extract.
Shouldnt be too long though.
horizons
Well-known member
onthemove
New member
So this Tongkat is good to run with Formeron? I just started a solo formeron run last week and looking for something good to add in. Thoughts anyone? Is there a good tongkat product available now? Thanks
And you Brundel do you think applying to chest once a day is what works best? still says on bottle 2x a day and mentions shoulder arms etc but not chest
And you Brundel do you think applying to chest once a day is what works best? still says on bottle 2x a day and mentions shoulder arms etc but not chest
brundel
Board Sponsor
I think its legal in AU but the pack I sent to a tester there never arrived.
We have a retailer in AU so once we get things moving Ill talk to him about carrying the product thus making it available to you guys over there.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Tongkat would be great with Formeron.
As a solo 1 pump is almost useless Im afraid. 3-4. Upper chest, neck delts. IM not sure if you meant 1= once.
I would also split the doses and application sites. So like this:
1 pump left shoulder
1 right shoulder
1 left peck/neck
1 right peck/neck
This way you get better absorption as there is more surface area.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Im super glad to hear it. Im working hard to get this stuff out to you guys.
Probably create labels tonight.
This means I have to decide on:
mg per cap. I only have 500mg approx caps.
filler if any. I like to use compounds that compliment instead of garbage fillers.
Caps per bottle.
Im thinking:
60x 250mg caps
brundel
Board Sponsor
There are compounds in the tongkat that will effect her. Im not sure if she will get as much as you but doesnt hurt to try.
koi1214
Well-known member
How about adding the SERM & boron with it?