First time running superdrol

[Matthersby]

My experience, all aromatizing compounds (Dbol not included) carbs low, no extra sodium, plenty of water, strong AI,= Zero bloat.

Last time I ran Dbol was 2014 and I was eating carbs and salty foods like it was my job, so this time around I’d like to apply my method.

 

[Newth]

So... I have decided to drop the SD, day 9 and im still sick... and the SD dehydration, occasional stomach discomfort, and headaches clearly arent helping... feel worse than absolute ****.
Ill be just continuing on with Tren and adding my Dbol when I feel better... really hoping for the Dbol gives me that sense of “well being”

This isn't convincing me to buy SD, lol.

 

[MrKleen73]

10mg tabs. My last cycle was 80mg tbol and 60mg winstrol (alongside test and deca), I dont know why this is so intolerable... ive run adrol and M1T as well and never had these issues.... its just f***ed

It is not as safe as those that is why. There is a reason that research was halted on SD and it was decided not to make it a medicine... The ones you are referring to made it through all of the safety protocols. Well the M1T that one is brutal but you were just also sick too right?

Hell ya. Almost the same results- half the side effects. If you’re one of the lucky ones that can run it at 20mg, go for it. I struggle to eat at all though even on 10. Still seen ridiculous body composition changes more than any other drug with low dose SD. To this day, I’ve run almost everything out there, Trest and SD at low doses was the most jaw dropping transformation I’ve ever experienced.

Yeah 10 works nice, 10 on off days and 20 on lifting days also works well and staves off how quickly some of the sides get you if you are someone who gets a lot of sides.

Im running my trt alongside 350mg of tren e and currently 10mg of superdrol until I feel better (dont want to waste it). When do your 10mg to ensure your best results? I read its half life is only 8-9 hours...

Lots of beliefs but I always feel like having the gear closest to training and when you will be consuming the most food is the most beneficial. It's bro logic, but it is sound enough if you are going to limit the dosing. It only makes sense that you want the SD higher in your system to take advantage of the neurological benefits to help with strength. It also only makes sense to have the most nutrients available while the SD is highest in your system.

Not saying that you wouldn't make plenty gains taking it at any time during the day but the laws of specificity apply to gear the same as they do to anything else. Just like nutrient timing, it matters... Do you think you can make better use of a large portion of food right after training, or just whenever you decided to eat regardless of training? Same premise here.

I am currently taking 10mg a day and 20 on training days. I do IF right now and I take my SD an hour before training then start sipping my intra drink before my warm up, and then eat big the rest of the night. Then fall asleep when most of the recovery happens and I still have high levels of SD in my system. It's working well for my goals.

My plan originally was to take 10mg at 6am and 10 mg at 4pm (workout usually starts around 530-6), but I guess that will all depend on if I can tolerate 20.

Sounds good.

I’m clearly not an expert on SD as this is my first run, but I’m taken every other oral except halo. That being said because of the 8-9 hour half life I wouldn’t think you would get as much out of it as opposed to running 20mg a day and creating more stable blood levels.

People take the stable blood levels thing too far... most are on injectables while on SD so there androgen levels are always elevated... Also tons of people use gear for preworkout, think about it. Preworkout DBol, Ment/Trest, Halo, TNE. All intentionally creating a massive imbalance in the androgen levels.

Most importantly natural androgen levels change daily and throughout the day. So stable is not something that is supposed to happen in your system. GH comes in spikes, testosterone is created at night. Worrying about keeping levels even is kind of silly.

Yeah pulsing seem like a wild shot, plus I'm sure the suppression would kick in before too long. Still, I'd imagine pulsing SD would be better than natty

Pulsing SD @ 30mg 3-4 times a week for 6 weeks got me as many gains as running 20mg daily for 4 and I felt WAY BETTER!!!!!

You’re right, pulsing would be better than natty, but if you have enough pills to pulse 40mg 3 times a week.... what would make you choose that over 20mg a day. Also, unstable blood levels and large infrequent dosing causes more side effects.

Do they? Again look at all the examples of pre workout gear that is used intentionally to do the thing you are saying causes more side effects but anyone I know who has run a pulse cycle will tell you for certain the sides are far less. Your body has a chance to recover a little bit multiple times throughout the week. You can also limit NAC and Milk thistle on cycling days so not to destroy as much of the compound then take higher doses of them on off days to help with recovery.

Yep. In my opinion, it's a waste of time, and product.

I respect you brother but have you actually ran a pulsed cycle before and had a lackluster experience. If not that is a pretty strong statement to make not having any personal experience?

I know you understand that oral steroids are active from the moment you ingest them. They do their thing immediately, there is no need for build up in the system, or anything. They get into the system and off to work. It doesn't matter if you string 10 days @ 20mg together or 10 days @ 20mg EOD over 20 days, you are going to get the same effect out of that dose of gear for that 10 days of use. So sure the gains are slower, but less effective, definitely not. However it definitely helps with side effect manageability.

Pulse cycles are definitely not a waste of time, or product. Just a less aggressive approach with more focus on mitigating sides than gaining as quickly as possible.

My experience, all aromatizing compounds (Dbol not included) carbs low, no extra sodium, plenty of water, strong AI,= Zero bloat.

Last time I ran Dbol was 2014 and I was eating carbs and salty foods like it was my job, so this time around I’d like to apply my method.

Fact!!! I have always said this, diet manages a lot of the water weight most people attribute to "wet" compounds. The SD, DMZ or DBol NEED carbs thing gets old. They don't but yes they definitely increase glycogen retention by a mile but that doesn't mean you have to have so many that you spill over if how you look is also important to you.

 

[RickyBlobby]

This isn't convincing me to buy SD, lol.

Injectible bro. See Mike Arnold's thread on PM

 

[MrKleen73]

Injectible bro. See Mike Arnold's thread on PM

RickyBlobby do you mind sharing the cliff notes? My company firewall has PM blocked. So it is still methylated? If so does the methylation have any effect on the kidneys since not going through the liver first? Definitely intrigued here.

 

[RickyBlobby]

RickyBlobby do you mind sharing the cliff notes? My company firewall has PM blocked. So it is still methylated? If so does the methylation have any effect on the kidneys since not going through the liver first? Definitely intrigued here.

Mike Arnold started a thread on PM about his experience with Viking injectable SD. He is already a big guy and has put on 25 lbs in 27 days with ZERO side effects. I believe it is still methylated but not 100% certain.

I know what lab he got it from too (domestic)

 

[MrKleen73]

Mike Arnold started a thread on PM about his experience with Viking injectable SD. He is already a big guy and has put on 25 lbs in 27 days with ZERO side effects. I believe it is still methylated but not 100% certain.

I know what lab he got it from too

Oh wow!!!!! Can you PM me the link, or email it to me? My email is the same as my screen name Gmail.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Yup

 

[Matthersby]

RickyBlobby do you mind sharing the cliff notes? My company firewall has PM blocked. So it is still methylated? If so does the methylation have any effect on the kidneys since not going through the liver first? Definitely intrigued here.

I am curious to see more examples of injectable orals in the future. Most info out there is not anecdotal.

However, I have ran Msten at 20mg and had elevated liver enzymes, and ran injectable Msten at 15-30mg, years later with perfect liver enzymes. There’s other variables, but from a lot of online sources, athletes that use injectable methylated compounds seem to have less impact on the liver. I won’t state this as fact, but it’s starting to seem this way, especially the availability of some of these newer grey market injectables...

 

[MrKleen73]

I am curious to see more examples of injectable orals in the future. Most info out there is not anecdotal.

However, I have ran Msten at 20mg and had elevated liver enzymes, and ran injectable Msten at 15-30mg, years later with perfect liver enzymes. There’s other variables, but from a lot of online sources, athletes that use injectable methylated compounds seem to have less impact on the liver. I won’t state this as fact, but it’s starting to seem this way, especially the availability of some of these newer grey market injectables...

This would make sense as the liver is the filter between the digestive system and the blood. If you avoid the first pass and go straight into the blood then there will definitely be less stress on the liver. It just makes me wonder if the liver is working so hard to filter it, is there something else paying the price for avoiding that first pass? If so, is it the kidneys since they are the next filter in line? If so I would rather trash my liver, it can regenerate. If not then man that is pretty darn cool!!!

 

[Matthersby]

I will be doing some research on this. People trip over their liver not realizing what a beating it can take. The only reason I avoid harsh methyls is appetite is the first to go for me. I will try to find some literature on liver>kidney strain due to injected methyls.

 

[MrKleen73]

I will be doing some research on this. People trip over their liver not realizing what a beating it can take. The only reason I avoid harsh methyls is appetite is the first to go for me. I will try to find some literature on liver>kidney strain due to injected methyls.

Awesome, looking forward to hearing what you find!

 

[Newth]

I am curious to see more examples of injectable orals in the future. Most info out there is not anecdotal.

However, I have ran Msten at 20mg and had elevated liver enzymes, and ran injectable Msten at 15-30mg, years later with perfect liver enzymes. There’s other variables, but from a lot of online sources, athletes that use injectable methylated compounds seem to have less impact on the liver. I won’t state this as fact, but it’s starting to seem this way, especially the availability of some of these newer grey market injectables...

This was why we used injectable winny, it only does one pass through the liver, plus 50ml vials were good value....pip was a bitch though.

 

[Newth]

Injectible bro. See Mike Arnold's thread on PM

I wish I had more time to read over there.
Unfortunately I'm stuck with oral clones for now.

 

[Mudveins]

It is not as safe as those that is why. There is a reason that research was halted on SD and it was decided not to make it a medicine... The ones you are referring to made it through all of the safety protocols. Well the M1T that one is brutal but you were just also sick too right?

Yeah 10 works nice, 10 on off days and 20 on lifting days also works well and staves off how quickly some of the sides get you if you are someone who gets a lot of sides.

Lots of beliefs but I always feel like having the gear closest to training and when you will be consuming the most food is the most beneficial. It's bro logic, but it is sound enough if you are going to limit the dosing. It only makes sense that you want the SD higher in your system to take advantage of the neurological benefits to help with strength. It also only makes sense to have the most nutrients available while the SD is highest in your system.

Not saying that you wouldn't make plenty gains taking it at any time during the day but the laws of specificity apply to gear the same as they do to anything else. Just like nutrient timing, it matters... Do you think you can make better use of a large portion of food right after training, or just whenever you decided to eat regardless of training? Same premise here.

I am currently taking 10mg a day and 20 on training days. I do IF right now and I take my SD an hour before training then start sipping my intra drink before my warm up, and then eat big the rest of the night. Then fall asleep when most of the recovery happens and I still have high levels of SD in my system. It's working well for my goals.


Sounds good.


People take the stable blood levels thing too far... most are on injectables while on SD so there androgen levels are always elevated... Also tons of people use gear for preworkout, think about it. Preworkout DBol, Ment/Trest, Halo, TNE. All intentionally creating a massive imbalance in the androgen levels.

Most importantly natural androgen levels change daily and throughout the day. So stable is not something that is supposed to happen in your system. GH comes in spikes, testosterone is created at night. Worrying about keeping levels even is kind of silly.


Pulsing SD @ 30mg 3-4 times a week for 6 weeks got me as many gains as running 20mg daily for 4 and I felt WAY BETTER!!!!!



Do they? Again look at all the examples of pre workout gear that is used intentionally to do the thing you are saying causes more side effects but anyone I know who has run a pulse cycle will tell you for certain the sides are far less. Your body has a chance to recover a little bit multiple times throughout the week. You can also limit NAC and Milk thistle on cycling days so not to destroy as much of the compound then take higher doses of them on off days to help with recovery.


I respect you brother but have you actually ran a pulsed cycle before and had a lackluster experience. If not that is a pretty strong statement to make not having any personal experience?

I know you understand that oral steroids are active from the moment you ingest them. They do their thing immediately, there is no need for build up in the system, or anything. They get into the system and off to work. It doesn't matter if you string 10 days @ 20mg together or 10 days @ 20mg EOD over 20 days, you are going to get the same effect out of that dose of gear for that 10 days of use. So sure the gains are slower, but less effective, definitely not. However it definitely helps with side effect manageability.

Pulse cycles are definitely not a waste of time, or product. Just a less aggressive approach with more focus on mitigating sides than gaining as quickly as possible.

Fact!!! I have always said this, diet manages a lot of the water weight most people attribute to "wet" compounds. The SD, DMZ or DBol NEED carbs thing gets old. They don't but yes they definitely increase glycogen retention by a mile but that doesn't mean you have to have so many that you spill over if how you look is also important to you.

My only reply is: Yes unstable blood levels lead to more sides... try shooting 700 tren e, 100 ED, and try shooting 700 in 1 go....tell me how you feel, or even acetate for that matter lol

 

[MrKleen73]

My only reply is: Yes unstable blood levels lead to more sides... try shooting 700 tren e, 100 ED, and try shooting 700 in 1 go....tell me how you feel, or even acetate for that matter lol

Oh so we are including stupidity in this just to make a point. Anyone who is shooting 700mg of tren e in one shot are definitely not concerned about side effects.

To be clear, I am not calling you stupid by any means but the example you used is stupid and unrealistic and has literally nothing to do with the examples used or stated in the the discussion... The discussion was including realistic and reasonable doses and the entire reason for pulsing is side effect management...

I could say the same thing with SD, intentionally being ridiculous about it to prove a point. Try taking 20mgs a day for a month, now try taking the whole bottle at once... or even 140mg at once... How do you feel...

Has nothing to do with uneven levels and everything to do with an unreasonable dose being taken at once...

 

[Mudveins]

Oh so we are including stupidity in this just to make a point. Anyone who is shooting 700mg of tren e in one shot are definitely not concerned about side effects.

To be clear, I am not calling you stupid by any means but the example you used is stupid and unrealistic and has literally nothing to do with the examples used or stated in the the discussion... The discussion was including realistic and reasonable doses and the entire reason for pulsing is side effect management...

I could say the same thing with SD, intentionally being ridiculous about it to prove a point. Try taking 20mgs a day for a month, now try taking the whole bottle at once... or even 140mg at once... How do you feel...

Has nothing to do with uneven levels and everything to do with an unreasonable dose being taken at once...

No offence taken.
And yes i used an extreme example, even though 600-700 tren a week isnt unheard of.
Despite the extreme example, it directly shows how a spike in blood levels affects side effects. If you were to dose tren ace at 100mg a day compared to 700 all at once on a Monday, you would indeed have more side effects and different results from that cycle... how is that stupid or unrealistic? The SD example you used of a month dose at once is obviously rediculous and doesnt apply to weekly dosing protocols at all. Just because the doses you are using might not be giving you side effects doesnt mean that stable vs unstable blood levels dont affect side effects and results. Why would dosing protocols even exist if it didnt matter? Why would we even bother talking about the half lives of drugs?

As far as the pulsing working for you goes, maybe it was because you doubled or tripled the amount of a normal SD protocol around certain workouts, or maybe you calorie intake was higher on those days to help promote growth. There are a lot of variables there that could have contributed to better results pulsing. For me at least, no cycle has ever yielded the same results.
If SD side effects are less when pulsing, could it not be that its because you only feel ****ty on the days you dose and not all week long? That doesnt mean the side effects are far less... in fact they are larger, they are just less frequent. That said we are also talking about a short half life oral which would leave your system while pulsing, but to use a blanket statement that stable blood levels dont matter for results or side effects is incorrect.

To finish my essay, im not bashing your thoughts, knowledge or calling you stupid. And maybe pulsing SD can be beneficial for some.... but half lives and blood levels matter lol

 

[hairygrandpa]

My only reply is: Yes unstable blood levels lead to more sides... try shooting 700 tren e, 100 ED, and try shooting 700 in 1 go....tell me how you feel, or even acetate for that matter lol

Oops, analogy gone wrong!

 

[Mudveins]

Oops, analogy gone wrong!

Lol I fix-da-did it with an essay

 

[hairygrandpa]

Lol I fix-da-did it with an essay

I bet MrKleen73 will explain his reasoning in a minute. I'm pulsing sometimes too and subscribe to the notion that it lowers sides.
That's talking orals -not IM, especially not test.

 

[Newth]

........ especially not test.

^^^This!

 

[Mudveins]

I bet MrKleen73 will explain his reasoning in a minute. I'm pulsing sometimes too and subscribe to the notion that it lowers sides.
That's talking orals -not IM, especially not test.

Now are we talking lower sides? Or lower frequency of sides?
And yes the more I think about it, the more beneficial I could see pulsing being. However because of the short half lives of orals I’d probably never do it because I want the drug at its peak level in all my workouts. Thus increasing strength/recovery during said workout.

 

[Mudveins]

^^^This!

Haha hence my essay

 

[hairygrandpa]

Now are we talking lower sides? Or lower frequency of sides?
And yes the more I think about it, the more beneficial I could see pulsing being. However because of the short half lives of orals I’d probably never do it because I want the drug at its peak level in all my workouts. Thus increasing strength/recovery during said workout.

I'm talking about "sh1tty" days when on more mg's -and less "sh1tty" days when on less mg.

 

[MrKleen73]

No offence taken.
And yes i used an extreme example, even though 600-700 tren a week isnt unheard of.
Despite the extreme example, it directly shows how a spike in blood levels affects side effects. If you were to dose tren ace at 100mg a day compared to 700 all at once on a Monday, you would indeed have more side effects and different results from that cycle... how is that stupid or unrealistic? The SD example you used of a month dose at once is obviously rediculous and doesnt apply to weekly dosing protocols at all. Just because the doses you are using might not be giving you side effects doesnt mean that stable vs unstable blood levels dont affect side effects and results. Why would dosing protocols even exist if it didnt matter? Why would we even bother talking about the half lives of drugs?

As far as the pulsing working for you goes, maybe it was because you doubled or tripled the amount of a normal SD protocol around certain workouts, or maybe you calorie intake was higher on those days to help promote growth. There are a lot of variables there that could have contributed to better results pulsing. For me at least, no cycle has ever yielded the same results.
If SD side effects are less when pulsing, could it not be that its because you only feel ****ty on the days you dose and not all week long? That doesnt mean the side effects are far less... in fact they are larger, they are just less frequent. That said we are also talking about a short half life oral which would leave your system while pulsing, but to use a blanket statement that stable blood levels dont matter for results or side effects is incorrect.

To finish my essay, im not bashing your thoughts, knowledge or calling you stupid. And maybe pulsing SD can be beneficial for some.... but half lives and blood levels matter lol

Thanks for not taking offense! I know the whole month of SD was ridiculous but that is why I also mentioned 140mg which we both know would suck. Just like one shot of tren e was intentionally extreme. I know not heard of but people running long ester tren at 700mg in a shot is not very common.

As far as the SD and sides on a pulse every day feels better on it not just the off days. Just less sides overall. I know my BP goes up every single day on SD but was lower on off days so that is one side that is definitely worse with daily use. Constant battery of the liver with no repreive is going to be harder on it than getting every other day off to recover.

I definitely use nutrient and dosage timing to try to improve efficiency of the gear and have always dosed more orals around my workout if using them. I even go so far as to time the 8 hour overlap in DMZ doses to be during my workout and feeding hours when taking more than one dose a day!

However honestly the orals with short half life give what they give and get out. Your body is going to use that in one day, it doesn't matter if you string the days together or not you will grow what you are going to grow from that day. All breaking the days up does is slow down the gains by half unless you increase the dose. In that respect though there is a point of diminishing returns as side effects get worse the higher of a dose you take in a day. With SD that was 30mg EOD for me 40 was horrible. Some people could do way more. I get a lot of sides. I ran that for 6 weeks and gained 12lbs on the scale while dropping about 5% body fat. I gained about 15 without much fat loss on 20mg a day for a month but stopped @3.5 weeks due to sides.

To me the results were pretty comparable but the experience was more enjoyable on the pulse. I didn't feel as sick, my appetite was better and urine stayed more clear with same water intake. I try to get 1 to 1.5 Gallons in a day on cycle.

 

[Mudveins]

Thanks for not taking offense! I know the whole month of SD was ridiculous but that is why I also mentioned 140mg which we both know would suck. Just like one shot of tren e was intentionally extreme. I know not heard of but people running long ester tren at 700mg in a shot is not very common.

As far as the SD and sides on a pulse every day feels better on it not just the off days. Just less sides overall. I know my BP goes up every single day on SD but was lower on off days so that is one side that is definitely worse with daily use. Constant battery of the liver with no repreive is going to be harder on it than getting every other day off to recover.

I definitely use nutrient and dosage timing to try to improve efficiency of the gear and have always dosed more orals around my workout if using them. I even go so far as to time the 8 hour overlap in DMZ doses to be during my workout and feeding hours when taking more than one dose a day!

However honestly the orals with short half life give what they give and get out. Your body is going to use that in one day, it doesn't matter if you string the days together or not you will grow what you are going to grow from that day. All breaking the days up does is slow down the gains by half unless you increase the dose. In that respect though there is a point of diminishing returns as side effects get worse the higher of a dose you take in a day. With SD that was 30mg EOD for me 40 was horrible. Some people could do way more. I get a lot of sides. I ran that for 6 weeks and gained 12lbs on the scale while dropping about 5% body fat. I gained about 15 without much fat loss on 20mg a day for a month but stopped @3.5 weeks due to sides.

To me the results were pretty comparable but the experience was more enjoyable on the pulse. I didn't feel as sick, my appetite was better and urine stayed more clear with same water intake. I try to get 1 to 1.5 Gallons in a day on cycle.

This leads me to two questions:
If you are dosing EOD, do you only workout EOD on it?
Would you pulse only on training days? I could understand that to be beneficial.

 

[Mudveins]

I'm talking about "sh1tty" days when on more mg's -and less "sh1tty" days when on less mg.

Lol when you pulse, do u just increase the dose but stay on a lower dose the rest of the time?
Like 20mg one day, 60mg next day, then back to 20mg the third day?

 

[Mudveins]

Thanks for not taking offense! I know the whole month of SD was ridiculous but that is why I also mentioned 140mg which we both know would suck. Just like one shot of tren e was intentionally extreme. I know not heard of but people running long ester tren at 700mg in a shot is not very common.

As far as the SD and sides on a pulse every day feels better on it not just the off days. Just less sides overall. I know my BP goes up every single day on SD but was lower on off days so that is one side that is definitely worse with daily use. Constant battery of the liver with no repreive is going to be harder on it than getting every other day off to recover.

I definitely use nutrient and dosage timing to try to improve efficiency of the gear and have always dosed more orals around my workout if using them. I even go so far as to time the 8 hour overlap in DMZ doses to be during my workout and feeding hours when taking more than one dose a day!

However honestly the orals with short half life give what they give and get out. Your body is going to use that in one day, it doesn't matter if you string the days together or not you will grow what you are going to grow from that day. All breaking the days up does is slow down the gains by half unless you increase the dose. In that respect though there is a point of diminishing returns as side effects get worse the higher of a dose you take in a day. With SD that was 30mg EOD for me 40 was horrible. Some people could do way more. I get a lot of sides. I ran that for 6 weeks and gained 12lbs on the scale while dropping about 5% body fat. I gained about 15 without much fat loss on 20mg a day for a month but stopped @3.5 weeks due to sides.

To me the results were pretty comparable but the experience was more enjoyable on the pulse. I didn't feel as sick, my appetite was better and urine stayed more clear with same water intake. I try to get 1 to 1.5 Gallons in a day on cycle.

Oh I forgot to say, I personally know 2 guys, one who ran 650 Tren in one of his cycles and another who ran 3g of test lol
Most ive ever ran is 1g of test in a cycke and I will never do that again.
250 test and 350 tren this cycle

 

[MrKleen73]

This leads me to two questions:
If you are dosing EOD, do you only workout EOD on it?
Would you pulse only on training days? I could understand that to be beneficial.

Yes or sometimes 2 on 1 off 2 on 2 off like a Monday Tuesday, Thursday, Friday split. I do really well on EOD though. I run through all kinds of splits using it. Then I eat a really big surplus on training days too and maintenance or a deficit the off days depending on goals.

Lol when you pulse, do u just increase the dose but stay on a lower dose the rest of the time?
Like 20mg one day, 60mg next day, then back to 20mg the third day?

That is another form of pulsing as well. Similar to the 10 on off days and 20 on training days that I am doing now. Just 2 weeks long so daily dosed but trying to finish up a cut l and wanted a little boost at the finish line.

Oh I forgot to say, I personally know 2 guys, one who ran 650 Tren in one of his cycles and another who ran 3g of test lol
Most ive ever ran is 1g of test in a cycke and I will never do that again.
250 test and 350 tren this cycle

Yeah I know some guys who blow my mind with their doses. As you can tell I am in the minimal dose stage in my life now. Always trying to see how little I can get away with and make good progress.

I have run test at 800 before and taken DMZ and epistane pretty high before. That is about as intense as I have gotten with gear. I have kept everything else pretty moderate.

 

[Newth]

Haha hence my essay

Now I had time to read your essay. Yep, different stroke for different folks.
Pulsing test prop as random pre-workout is what I believe gave me gyno issues, short test spikes converting into longer estrogen spikes.
Things that convert into a longer lasting estrogen need to be used with caution pulsing IMO.

 

[Mudveins]

Now I had time to read your essay. Yep, different stroke for different folks.
Pulsing test prop as random pre-workout is what I believe gave me gyno issues, short test spikes converting into longer estrogen spikes.
Things that convert into a longer lasting estrogen need to be used with caution pulsing IMO.

You should use a test suspension if you are trying to get a preworkout test boost. For future cycle

 

[Matthersby]

Lol when you pulse, do u just increase the dose but stay on a lower dose the rest of the time?
Like 20mg one day, 60mg next day, then back to 20mg the third day?

While I feel this would be fine for someone on TRT, I think for someone who cycles, most of the value of pulsing would be forfeited on this method.

Sides are sides. You can either deal with them or you can’t for the short period of time.

Once you remove the other factor of shutdown by dosing every day regardless(whether it be low dose or high dose on that particular day) Pulsing loses a whole lot if it’s value for me.

Stable blood levels prevent some sides, so one might assume, 2x daily, spread out, equal doses would be easier than 10mg one day, 40mg the next day preworkout, AND you’ll still end up shut down after long enough doing this.

On TRT? Pulse away! It may give you a boost and better workouts. And it’s a good way to get rid of leftover orals.

Not on TRT? Pulse away! But realize that people have been experimenting with this for a decade plus, and they’ve been successful in one aspect; preventing shutdown. But they are not getting close to the results of even, consistent doses over 4-6 weeks. I wouldn’t do it for anything except shutdown prevention or to get through an intense training session...

 

[Renew1]

I really appreciate the repect and consideration that everyone is giving each other here. There's certainly a lot of knowledge represented by the posters in this thread alone.

But what I originally posted here is how I feel.
In my opinion, pulsing is a waste.
Have I ever tried it? Nope. And there's a good reason for that. I rarely try something (in this context) that I have that low of an opinion of. All of us here have opinions on things that we haven't tried.
If I spent all of my time and resources trying things that I didn't believe were beneficial, I'd never be doing the things that I know are.

 

[MrKleen73]

Now I had time to read your essay. Yep, different stroke for different folks.
Pulsing test prop as random pre-workout is what I believe gave me gyno issues, short test spikes converting into longer estrogen spikes.
Things that convert into a longer lasting estrogen need to be used with caution pulsing IMO.

When you say randomly pulsing it do you mean just using test only pre workout without any type of AI or anything? As in not on a cycle and not using any support supps? Just curious because it seems if you were running an AI or SERM that would be relatively unlikely. Minimal aromatase enzyme means minimal conversion.

Mudvaine is also right on the TNE or Suspension as opposed to prop which lasts days so your levels would have probably been elevated through out even if only using on workout days so yeah without an AI depending on dose and gyno sensitivity it could have caused it. I mean it could have caused it regardless. Just trying to piece it together in my mind...

While I feel this would be fine for someone on TRT, I think for someone who cycles, most of the value of pulsing would be forfeited on this method.

Sides are sides. You can either deal with them or you can’t for the short period of time.

Once you remove the other factor of shutdown by dosing every day regardless(whether it be low dose or high dose on that particular day) Pulsing loses a whole lot if it’s value for me.

Stable blood levels prevent some sides, so one might assume, 2x daily, spread out, equal doses would be easier than 10mg one day, 40mg the next day preworkout, AND you’ll still end up shut down after long enough doing this.

On TRT? Pulse away! It may give you a boost and better workouts. And it’s a good way to get rid of leftover orals.

Not on TRT? Pulse away! But realize that people have been experimenting with this for a decade plus, and they’ve been successful in one aspect; preventing shutdown. But they are not getting close to the results of even, consistent doses over 4-6 weeks. I wouldn’t do it for anything except shutdown prevention or to get through an intense training session...

Yes pulsing on TRT works well. As far as sides I agree they are sides but you can deal with them by managing them or just sucking it up. I don't mind slower gains to help me manage sides. It is my preference now. When I was younger it was more about sucking it up and going for the gusto. Now that doesn't feel so great for me anymore. So whether pulsing or daily I try not to go too high on doses anymore.

Don't get me wrong I still prefer steady dosing over a true pulse any day. However I definitely see value in higher doses on orals around the workouts, even when having stable levels of other hormones in my system. A lot of it is also like you said getting rid of orals. Once they are gone I won't mess with them unless it is Var, or maybe Tbol. I am just trying to get rid of the SD and DMZ I have left right now. After that I have one bottle of manifested by Xcell, and Ep1stane from OL and that is it for the designer orals.

 

[MrKleen73]

I really appreciate the repect and consideration that everyone is giving each other here. There's certainly a lot of knowledge represented by the posters in this thread alone.

But what I originally posted here is how I feel.
In my opinion, pulsing is a waste.
Have I ever tried it? Nope. And there's a good reason for that. I rarely try something (in this context) that I have that low of an opinion of. All of us here have opinions on things that we haven't tried.
If I spent all of my time and resources trying things that I didn't believe were beneficial, I'd never be doing the things that I know are.

Respect that for sure. I was just curious if it was an opinion based on having done them and not gotten results.

I can totally get behind the reasoning for why you haven't tried a pulse if you don't see the value in them. It only makes sense. It just sounded like a really strong opinion to have if you hadn't actually experienced it.

Then again, one could easily say I don't have to experience getting shot to know that I don't want to do it, and that is valid, so why not in this case too right?

I really enjoy these types of conversations as they tend to make me clarify and define not only what I believe or think but give me other peoples views to consider and see where or how they fit in with mine. Sometimes they change my views on things, coming out of any of these feeling like I learned a little something or gained a little more insight from trying to understand others perspective is a win!

 

[Renew1]

Respect that for sure. I was just curious if it was an opinion based on having done them and not gotten results.

I can totally get behind the reasoning for why you haven't tried a pulse if you don't see the value in them. It only makes sense. It just sounded like a really strong opinion to have if you hadn't actually experienced it.

Then again, one could easily say I don't have to experience getting shot to know that I don't want to do it, and that is valid, so why not in this case too right?

I really enjoy these types of conversations as they tend to make me clarify and define not only what I believe or think but give me other peoples views to consider and see where or how they fit in with mine. Sometimes they change my views on things, coming out of any of these feeling like I learned a little something or gained a little more insight from trying to understand others perspective is a win!

Totally agree with you brother.
The information posted in this thread is now stored with everything else that I have read, seen, heard and done...and I'll use the combination of all of that in making my future decisions.

 

[Mudveins]

Respect that for sure. I was just curious if it was an opinion based on having done them and not gotten results.

I can totally get behind the reasoning for why you haven't tried a pulse if you don't see the value in them. It only makes sense. It just sounded like a really strong opinion to have if you hadn't actually experienced it.

Then again, one could easily say I don't have to experience getting shot to know that I don't want to do it, and that is valid, so why not in this case too right?

I really enjoy these types of conversations as they tend to make me clarify and define not only what I believe or think but give me other peoples views to consider and see where or how they fit in with mine. Sometimes they change my views on things, coming out of any of these feeling like I learned a little something or gained a little more insight from trying to understand others perspective is a win!

One thing that holds me back from pulsing is that I dont notice strength gains from orals until ive been on tgem for a week or more. So how does pulsing change this?
Actually curious to hear explanations

 

[RickyBlobby]

For those curious about the injectable SD, here is Mike Arnold's post quoted from PM:


http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/145995-viking-injectable-sd.html

Viking Superdrol (injectable) Review


Best Superdrol I've Ever Used?





This is the FIRST time (that I can recall) giving a gear-related review to a sponsor here. I am going to say more later, but for now...

Viking's Injectable SD is GREAT STUFF! It's as good as ANY SD I've ever used...and based on what I am seeing, it may be stronger than ANY other SD I've ever used, which is likely attributable to it being an injectable version rather than oral.

As most of us know, there IS a difference (in terms of potency) between injectable and oral administration. The decades of steroid research done in the 50's-70's, which often compared the anabolic effects of various AAS using different methods of administration (oral vs. injectable), has proven this over and over again. While the method of administration employed generally doesn't make a big difference, in some cases it matters more than others.

When it comes to SD, there DOES seem to be a noticeable difference. 13 pounds in 5 days is what I just gained. I have never done that before with SD...and while I am regaining, I have regained many times before under the same circumstances and have never done that. furthermore, I am not even pushing my calories as high as I have in cycles past and am still packing on more weight.

Now, it would be pretty cool if it turns out that the injectable version of SD is significantly stronger than the oral version, but that is not what got me excited about this stuff.

Guys, I have used SD countless times--dozens of times--probably 4 dozen times now. I have never been able to use it at even 20 mg/day without experiencing severe appetite suppression within 10 days. Normally, even at 3 days in my appetite is already taking a hit and by one week in I am struggling to eat. This happens every time no matter what I do. It doesn't matter what liver aides I use. Nothing gets rid of it.

I am now one week in using Viking's Superdrol product and I have ZERO appetite suppression, lethargy, or any other negative side effect. I feel great...and I am as hungry as I was before I started using it. I waited a full week to make an assessment...because I didn't want to make a judgment call based on just a few days, but I can say without any doubt whatsoever that I NEVER would have made it this long using oral SD without severe appetite issues. I literally can't feel any suppression at all...and the fact I actually feel good is just further icing on the cake. I am not even using any liver aides (although I don't think liver toxicity has much to do with oral AAS induced appetite suppression in 95% of cases anyway).

I don't know if anyone else will be able to avoid appetite suppression with the injectable version, but for me the difference is extreme and is definitely due to the method of administration.

Even if a decent percentage of guys receive this same benefit, it would make SD a MUCH more effective mass-builder for many people. Imagine being able to eat all you want when using SD, while feeling completely fine? That is what is happening to me right now. If you know what SD can do, then you know that this is mass-building match made in heaven.

In conclusion, this is the best SD I have EVER used. If anyone tries it...push those calories higher than ever and watch yourself blow up.



Note: I am using 12 mg, 2X daily with a 29 g. insulin pin injected subcutaneously.

 

[MrKleen73]

For those curious about the injectable SD, here is Mike Arnold's post quoted from PM:


http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/145995-viking-injectable-sd.html

Viking Superdrol (injectable) Review


Best Superdrol I've Ever Used?





This is the FIRST time (that I can recall) giving a gear-related review to a sponsor here. I am going to say more later, but for now...

Viking's Injectable SD is GREAT STUFF! It's as good as ANY SD I've ever used...and based on what I am seeing, it may be stronger than ANY other SD I've ever used, which is likely attributable to it being an injectable version rather than oral.

As most of us know, there IS a difference (in terms of potency) between injectable and oral administration. The decades of steroid research done in the 50's-70's, which often compared the anabolic effects of various AAS using different methods of administration (oral vs. injectable), has proven this over and over again. While the method of administration employed generally doesn't make a big difference, in some cases it matters more than others.

When it comes to SD, there DOES seem to be a noticeable difference. 13 pounds in 5 days is what I just gained. I have never done that before with SD...and while I am regaining, I have regained many times before under the same circumstances and have never done that. furthermore, I am not even pushing my calories as high as I have in cycles past and am still packing on more weight.

Now, it would be pretty cool if it turns out that the injectable version of SD is significantly stronger than the oral version, but that is not what got me excited about this stuff.

Guys, I have used SD countless times--dozens of times--probably 4 dozen times now. I have never been able to use it at even 20 mg/day without experiencing severe appetite suppression within 10 days. Normally, even at 3 days in my appetite is already taking a hit and by one week in I am struggling to eat. This happens every time no matter what I do. It doesn't matter what liver aides I use. Nothing gets rid of it.

I am now one week in using Viking's Superdrol product and I have ZERO appetite suppression, lethargy, or any other negative side effect. I feel great...and I am as hungry as I was before I started using it. I waited a full week to make an assessment...because I didn't want to make a judgment call based on just a few days, but I can say without any doubt whatsoever that I NEVER would have made it this long using oral SD without severe appetite issues. I literally can't feel any suppression at all...and the fact I actually feel good is just further icing on the cake. I am not even using any liver aides (although I don't think liver toxicity has much to do with oral AAS induced appetite suppression in 95% of cases anyway).

I don't know if anyone else will be able to avoid appetite suppression with the injectable version, but for me the difference is extreme and is definitely due to the method of administration.

Even if a decent percentage of guys receive this same benefit, it would make SD a MUCH more effective mass-builder for many people. Imagine being able to eat all you want when using SD, while feeling completely fine? That is what is happening to me right now. If you know what SD can do, then you know that this is mass-building match made in heaven.

In conclusion, this is the best SD I have EVER used. If anyone tries it...push those calories higher than ever and watch yourself blow up.



Note: I am using 12 mg, 2X daily with a 29 g. insulin pin injected subcutaneously.

Oh Snap! I am going to have to at least try this once!!!! Sounds like he was reading my bio regarding how SD made him feel with orals...

 

[RickyBlobby]

If you follow the thread on PM his last post had him on day 27, with a 25lb weight increase, and still no sides!

500 calories above maintenance is what he was eating I believe.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Lol when you pulse, do u just increase the dose but stay on a lower dose the rest of the time?
Like 20mg one day, 60mg next day, then back to 20mg the third day?

More -or less, yes. Depending on half life , I make sure I have always some in my system. Like T-bol at 80mg/d, if sides appear, I cut dosage in half for a day -or two.

 

[Matthersby]

More -or less, yes. Depending on half life , I make sure I have always some in my system. Like T-bol at 80mg/d, if sides appear, I cut dosage in half for a day -or two.

I totally do this^ I just don’t really consider it pulsing though.

 

[DennisC1986]

Today is day 5 on SD. Start to feel kinda lethargic towards the end of the day and appetite is definitely suffering. Gonna suck it up for at least another week though

 

[Mudveins]

I totally do this^ I just don’t really consider it pulsing though.

Haha same, id consider pulsing to be completely dropping the drug every few days like MrKleen suggested.
Keeping it in your system like this, to me its just like ramping up for workouts lol... no wonder this disscussion got so confusing haha
That being said I like the thought behind Hairygrandpa’s version. I could see myself doing it. However, because I am unsure about whether or not I would feel to extra kick for that night’s workout... I would probably run my normal esters and pulse like this with a test suspension as said before so that I knew I would get the results in the following workout.

 

[Mudveins]

Today is day 5 on SD. Start to feel kinda lethargic towards the end of the day and appetite is definitely suffering. Gonna suck it up for at least another week though

Good luck bro, keep the water intake high.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Good luck bro, keep the water intake high.

And use hyperhydration (glycerol). Look it up.

 

[DennisC1986]

Interesting, I'll Google it. The downside of that is I get up 5 times a night to piss anyway, now it's even worse

 

[hairygrandpa]

Interesting, I'll Google it. The downside of that is I get up 5 times a night to piss anyway, now it's even worse

If you do it right, you will piss less.

Here my formula:
1 liter water
1 tablespoon glycerol
1 teaspoon table salt (or electrolytes)
3 teaspoon sugar

The sugar creates a insulin spike, shuttling the salt and glycerol into tissue. Glycerol binds it -so it stays there and is not as fast eliminated.

 

[DennisC1986]

Awesome. So basically your body utilizes the water more efficiently

 

[Renew1]

Today is day 5 on SD. Start to feel kinda lethargic towards the end of the day and appetite is definitely suffering. Gonna suck it up for at least another week though

I know that it's early, but has your body weight increased much yet? What about appearance and strength? Just curious.
I'd try to hang in there a while if you can.