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enlarged heart from aas

wedlund6

Active member
i am sure most ppl on this site know about enlarged heart from aas my ?'s are
do you think stimulants like caffeine, cocaine and amphetamines preworkout well on cycle contribute to this ?
do you think large amounts of cardio well on cycle contribute to this ?
my line of thinking is in both cases your working your heart harder and your heart is a muscle your on aas so the muscle grows i have tried finding info on this all i find is ass can give you a enlarged heart i was just wonding if anyone thinks there is more to it or not
thanks
 
i understand cardio off cycle helps pervent it and there are studies to back that. i just wonder about cardio well on cycle if the effect to the heart would be defferent. i my mind the harder you work you heart well on cycle the more it mite effect it
 
nope, the effect to the heart is the same... it will also stave off on cycle HBP and keep your 'crit in check longer.
 
crazyfool405 said:
not exactly

it increases heart size.
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Not exactly it depends on what type of.cardio same with what type of aas. I read propinate test as well as wet drugs like dbol and anadrol increase heart size
 
Cardio does help with bp problems
 
Also one important thing i learned in college how heart increased is.important. if through drugs that's bad. If ur heart increased through intense cardio that not all that negative as u may thing its quiet positive. And yes this was explained in my bio class by a teach.who is.a.doctor.in sports medicine
 
Jasen said:
Also one important thing i learned in college how heart increased is.important. if through drugs that's bad. If ur heart increased through intense cardio that not all that negative as u may thing its quiet positive. And yes this was explained in my bio class by a teach.who is.a.doctor.in sports medicine
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interesting.


and OP did you just type the world bolth? lol
 
wedlund6 said:
i am sure most ppl on this site know about enlarged heart from aas my ?'s are
do you think stimulants like caffeine, cocaine and amphetamines preworkout well on cycle contribute to this ?
do you think large amounts of cardio well on cycle contribute to this ?
my line of thinking is in bolth cases your working your heart harder and your heart is a muscle your on aas so the muscle grows i have tried finding info on this all i find is ass can give you a enlarged heart i was just wonding if anyone thinks there is more to it or not
thanks
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Sorry I just couldn't stop laughing :toofunny:

//CC
 
I <3 a fine booty :32:
 
so sex enlarges heart? :(

i get horney look at my tren-e bottle......
 
yeah j likes that **** in his body! yeahhhh boiiiii!
 
the heart is a muscle, it has androgen receptors.

aas can elarge a ventricle of the heart. this has been shown in studies. phera plex is one i can say off the top of my head has been shown to do this.

there are numerous studies on this subject. very easy to find.

anyone who doesn't think this is a potential side effect is fooling themselves.
 
I've read the same about Phera. But I guess one or 2, 4 weeks cycles of this can't do much more harm than other compounds.. Or am I just in denial? :p

//CC
 
jbryand101b said:
the heart is a muscle, it has androgen receptors.

aas can elarge a ventricle of the heart. this has been shown in studies. phera plex is one i can say off the top of my head has been shown to do this.

there are numerous studies on this subject. very easy to find.

anyone who doesn't think this is a potential side effect is fooling themselves.
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yes spot on andro receptors! like i said earlier compunds like dbol and anadrol cause this problem. alot
 
jbryand101b said:
it's a potential risk, so no one will know until your that 1 with an enlarged heart out of the hundreds that didn't.
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Jasen said:
yes spot on andro receptors! like i said earlier compunds like dbol and anadrol cause this problem. alot
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Based on either experiences you have had or opinions/facts, do anavar and winny tabs enlarge the heart with heavy heavy cardio? I'm a bball player, and was definitely thinking of incorporating winny and anavar into my cycle this fall, but that's when bball off season transitions into the season for me. I will also be running clen to burn any excess fat. But yea, I'm just a lil worried now!

sorry no thread hi jack
 
I also got worried about the enlarged heart effect from my upcoming Phera run :( Better stay in denial and take the risk I guess :p What about CoQ10? I know there is not much information on this but wouldn't it support the heart?

EDIT: Found this:

Case studies demonstrate the dramatic effect of CoQ10. In Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications (Jan 15, 1993;182:247-53), Folkers described a 43-year-old man suffering from cardiomyopathy. After being given CoQ10, his enlarged heart became smaller (indicating it was working more efficiently), and he was able to resume an "extremely active athletic lifestyle." The heart function of another patient, a 50-year-old man with very severe cardiomyopathy, returned after he took CoQ10, and he has since had "no limitations of activity."


//CC
 
so besides taking coq10. should a person limit there cardio well on cycle especially on some aas (phera dbol anadrol)
it seems to me more and more that stims and cardio well on cycle mite not be a good mix
 
wedlund6 said:
so besides taking coq10. should a person limit there cardio well on cycle especially on some aas (phera dbol anadrol)
it seems to me more and more that stims and cardio well on cycle mite not be a good mix
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I will still be doing cardio twice a week while on Phera/Bold. MMA practice to be specific.. Kinda tough cardio.

//CC
 
rsr08 said:
Based on either experiences you have had or opinions/facts, do anavar and winny tabs enlarge the heart with heavy heavy cardio? I'm a bball player, and was definitely thinking of incorporating winny and anavar into my cycle this fall, but that's when bball off season transitions into the season for me. I will also be running clen to burn any excess fat. But yea, I'm just a lil worried now!

sorry no thread hi jack
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well this is the funny part!
ur a bb player so chances r depedns on ur cardio level ur heart might have had elargment but i highly doubt it! marathone runners that type of extreme cardio elarges heart (positively) so that ur able to keep doing ur activity. so i guess its the hyperplasia of muscles but more of hyperpkasia of heart in dumb terms so ppl cand raw a picture in their mind. through MASSIVE cardio the heart enlarges to meet demands remember this is not bad. now i have seen articles proving clen increase heart size which sounds understandable since the effects of clen. anavar and winnie i doubt those have the ability to enlarge heart. it appears that only WET AAS have this potential. phera dbol anadrol etc. and T-prop as well. CARDIO IS ALWAYS RECOMENDED!!!!!! even on cycle think of it as cycle support for ur heart. it does so many positive things for the body especially heart that even when i bulk ill do 45min 3x a week. if i have to make it up ill eat more calories but cardio is a must. u cannot train ur muscles and disregard ur heart ONLY A MORON WOULD DO THAT IMO. i have noticed becuase i too have gone most of my time not doing cardio earlier in my resitance training time, thats cardio actually lowers many of the sides i experince from AAS maybe thats why my sides are low even on this crazy cycle and 70% is genetics probably as well as diet and support sups being the other part. but yah u get what i mean. btw if u do winnie 8-10G fishoil ur joint will thank u and try to limit high impact cardio
 
ConcreteConny said:
I also got worried about the enlarged heart effect from my upcoming Phera run :( Better stay in denial and take the risk I guess :p What about CoQ10? I know there is not much information on this but wouldn't it support the heart?

EDIT: Found this:

Case studies demonstrate the dramatic effect of CoQ10. In Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications (Jan 15, 1993;182:247-53), Folkers described a 43-year-old man suffering from cardiomyopathy. After being given CoQ10, his enlarged heart became smaller (indicating it was working more efficiently), and he was able to resume an "extremely active athletic lifestyle." The heart function of another patient, a 50-year-old man with very severe cardiomyopathy, returned after he took CoQ10, and he has since had "no limitations of activity."


//CC
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I wish it stated the doses they took and for how long.
 
coq-10 is one of the most powerfull body enhancer a human can take, its an amazing miracle imo. everyone should be taking it. especially for heart. i see doctors constantly prescribing coQ10 to patientens
 
MrRobRage said:
actually, cardio helps prevent cardiomyopathic left ventricular hypertrophy...
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I would agree. Actually the 2 best studies I found on this are both referenced in ergolog. Here are the links:

1) Invalid Link Removed
2) Invalid Link Removed

#1 is directly relative, showing increased cardiac function bt doing cardio work while on, and it's the only study of it's kind I've ever found. The major drawback: it's done on mice, but I think the evidence is solid.

#2 is pretty close to directly relative in that trimetazidine is kind of "cardio in a bottle", as I understand. This study was done on rabbits, but there are plenty of promising human studies as well. Long story short, the drug (by limiting fatty-acid metabolism and forcing glucose meatbolism, thus mimicking the effects of aerobic cardio) seems to protect the heart and increase ejection fraction (danger of LVH), so if one were to extrapolate these results, aerobic cardio while on-cycle would seem to be cardioprotective.

Wedlund, I had the same thoughts as you re: heart hypertrophy while on, but I think aerobic work is still as positive for the heart as it is off-cycle. However, I think the literature proves that anaerobic work (read: actually lifting weights, sprints, HIIT, etc) may indeed contribute to LVH. Since obviously we're all going to keep lifting, guess what I won't ever do while on-cycle.
 
everyone needs to keep in mind, no matter what the anabolic/androgenic steroid is, period.

androgenic side effects are a possiblity with all of them.

this includes hair loss, hair growth, acne, increased bp, test. desensitization, enlarged prostate, enlarged heart ventricle, ect.

this does not mean you will experience these sides, it just means they are always a possiblility with anabolic/androgenic steroids.

and everytime you use these androgens, you run the risk of androgenic sides.

there is no steroid known to man with an androgenic rating of 0.

yet.
 
there are two types of LVH, one where the chamber becomes bigger, and one where the walls become thicker but the chamber gets smaller... lifting wights in general with or without AAS leads to the second one, however cardio leads to the first, and preferred one.. doing cardio with your lifting and AAS will help keep your chamber large and your heart pumping efficiently with a nice high Ejection Fraction
 
i do appreciate your input do you have anything to back it up any studies i do cardio on and off cycle and always have. i'm getting old and i see ex bbers and ex westler dieing from this in there early 50 s . i do not plan on stoping aas anytime soon just want to know what i can do to improve my chances
 
Wedlund, I've searched quite a bit for studies on lessening LVH while on AAS, and the two I posted were the best I've found. I severely doubt there's any better ones that I missed, as who the hell is going to fund something like that?

Rob Rage is right though, LVH from exercise is completely benign (although there is actual wall thickening there as well, but it is in conjunction with overall hypertrophy), while AAS-induced LVH is not, and is most likely a combination of direct androgen action on the heart and increased blood pressure.

So - the easiest way to protect yourself is do your old-school, low intensity cardio year round (but especially on-cycle), and closely monitor BP on-cycle. High BP on-cycle is a sure-fire recipe for LVH. Also supps will help, CoQ10 as mentioned, fish oil, etc.
 
the 2 studies you post were vary helpfull. i have spent a lot of time looking myself and you have found more then i did thanks.
most ppl do or should know what the sides are from aas and most are well documented and you can find alot of info on them (liver,kidney,bp,ect) yet LVH from steriod use seems less studied to me. and when you look at the names who have died from heart problems their age and the aas use you would think there would be more info
mike mentzer 49
hawk 46
eddie guerrero 38
brian pillman 35
rick rude 40
british bulldog 39
 
wedlund6 said:
the 2 studies you post were vary helpfull. i have spent a lot of time looking myself and you have found more then i did thanks.
most ppl do or should know what the sides are from aas and most are well documented and you can find alot of info on them (liver,kidney,bp,ect) yet LVH from steriod use seems less studied to me. and when you look at the names who have died from heart problems their age and the aas use you would think there would be more info
mike mentzer 49
hawk 46
eddie guerrero 38
brian pillman 35
rick rude 40
british bulldog 39
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ummm you are sadly misinformed... number one i am a wrestler so i have intimate knowledge of this...


pillman- drug related suicide
Rick Rude - drug related suicide, in spite of what the internet and wikipedia says, it was painkillers
Davy Boy Smith (Bulldog) - drug related death, also painkillers
Eddie and hawk- yes died of heart issues... they also had MAJOR cocaine addictions for many years and cocaine is 1000x harder on your heart than any AAS

All of these individuals were drug abusers outside of their AAS use, and that led to their demises.
Mentzer as well, he had an amphetamine habit.
 
MrRobRage said:
ummm you are sadly misinformed... number one i am a wrestler so i have intimate knowledge of this...


pillman- drug related suicide
Rick Rude - drug related suicide, in spite of what the internet and wikipedia says, it was painkillers
Davy Boy Smith (Bulldog) - drug related death, also painkillers
Eddie and hawk- yes died of heart issues... they also had MAJOR cocaine addictions for many years and cocaine is 1000x harder on your heart than any AAS

All of these individuals were drug abusers outside of their AAS use, and that led to their demises.
Mentzer as well, he had an amphetamine habit.
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That last part...

Steroids cause issues, but alot of the big names that die who use them are using all kinds of prescription meds. It comes with fame and power, they start taking all this stuff, hell why not? THey are king of the world in their mind.
 
my question is, since while on cycle your HDL and LDL get screwed, how much damage is done during that time?

how much plaque can accrue in a couple of months?
 
soontobbeast said:
my question is, since while on cycle your HDL and LDL get screwed, how much damage is done during that time?

how much plaque can accrue in a couple of months?
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^This

//CC
 
soontobbeast said:
my question is, since while on cycle your HDL and LDL get screwed, how much damage is done during that time?

how much plaque can accrue in a couple of months?
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Plaque can be removed though, so a generally healthy person would recover given time, diet and exercise.
 
Or you can always incorporate Molecular Nutrition - Lipid Stabil to your cycle if that makes you feel better :)

//CC
 
Well thats true :laugh:

//CC
 
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