ECDY Supplements

[Jorsn]

What happened to these ECDY supplements? A few months ago there was so much hype around ECDY and now the reviews I read say they are crap.

 

[fasttimes]

I bought into the hype, for 6 bottles, doubled the dosage around bottle #3 got nothing. Oh it leaned my wallet.

 

[Jorsn]

It sounded great... In theory. But the real world results absolutely sucked. The I-Force reps were pimping the hell out of ECDY. I remember Tauras Nutrition was thinking about bringing a ECDY supplement to the market but I think LG had the rights to it.

 

[Whacked]

Still use the stuff. Still a fan

High doses and frequent dosing are a must (very short half life).

Still one of my all time non-hormonal ergogenic aids and recomp supps.

Been on/off for YEARS.

You either love the stuff or hate it.

 

[SuppJunkie]

I have two bottles of Iforce Ecdy and two bottles of LG Substerone. I think I paid like 15 bux a bottle. Cant complaint about that. I plan on running them in an upcoming nattty stack, not sure which company I will use this time, really depends. I will give an honest opinion on them and will run a log on here..SJ

 

[Whacked]

One caveat with ECDY and TURK: The beauty of these products are discernbable cumulatively IMHO. I run the stuff for 4-8 months. I only come off when using a PH or something along those lines.

 

[xGenericx]

One caveat with ECDY and TURK: The beauty of these products are discernbable cumulatively IMHO. I run the stuff for 4-8 months. I only come off when using a PH or something along those lines.

So your saying they work; but only noticeably if used for long periods of time. I have to bottles of substerone, and a bottle of Iforce Ecdy. I'm guessing I won't much results with them if they work the way you say. I'm gonna try dosing every few hrs and hope that makes it more effective.

 

[AutoKal47]

I ran two bottles of E-bol few months ago and liked it, nothing mind blowing but not money wasted by any stretch.I was taking 2cps 3 times a dayon empty, 25 min before high protein meal. Low carb diet

 

[Whacked]

So your saying they work; but only noticeably if used for long periods of time. I have to bottles of substerone, and a bottle of Iforce Ecdy. I'm guessing I won't much results with them if they work the way you say. I'm gonna try dosing every few hrs and hope that makes it more effective.

Again, it's a 50/50 thing at best. some people are simply not responders for some bizarre reason. Good luck man

I ran two bottles of E-bol few months ago and liked it, nothing mind blowing but not money wasted by any stretch.I was taking 2cps 3 times a dayon empty, 25 min before high protein meal. Low carb diet

 

[criticalbench]

It helps me normalize my body post cycle I feel like, but thats about it.

Mike

 

[ingenierito25]

Hi there Whacked,

Been interested in this stuff since I read mixelflick (spelled?) over BB.com talking wonders about this thing. People seems to do it really well with his program (the blueprint) plus a good Ecdysterone producto (I think his favourite is E-bol).

I´ve read that tonvara.net sells legit stuf of this it has a product with 75 mg of 98% pure ecdysterone each capsule , about TRIPLE compared with the other products I´ve seen in most online supplements stores.

Which dosage would you recommend for a 68 kilograms male (150 pounds)?

Kind regards

 

[Whacked]

I tried the Turk from Tonvara. Good product but..

To be honest, while it may certainly be superior; anecdotally I didn't notice anything unique when comapred to EBOL or i-Force's.

IMHO, get the cheapest (yet not bunk) ECD b/c high dosing and frequent dosing is required.

It's not cheap bit for a non-hormonal stack (especially as a long bridge between cycles), this stuff is decent.

Also, my favorite supp to stack with this is LeanXtreme.

For whatever reason, this is a wonderful recomp combo for me.

I hate seeing people earned their hard-earned money on bunk supps. This stuff works for me but does NOT in some!

That said; this thread is jam-packed with good ECDY (and Turk) info
Invalid Link Removed

Good luck with your decison

 

[xGenericx]

I tried the Turk from Tonvara. Good product but..

To be honest, while it may certainly be superior; anecdotally I didn't notice anything unique when comapred to EBOL or i-Force's.

IMHO, get the cheapest (yet not bunk) ECD b/c high dosing and frequent dosing is required.

It's not cheap bit for a non-hormonal stack (especially as a long bridge between cycles), this stuff is decent.

Also, my favorite supp to stack with this is LeanXtreme.

For whatever reason, this is a wonderful recomp combo for me.

I hate seeing people earned their hard-earned money on bunk supps. This stuff works for me but does NOT in some!

That said; this thread is jam-packed with good ECDY (and Turk) info
Invalid Link Removed

Good luck with your decison

In that thread you said you took scifit ecdy at 300mgs per serving. How would that work for iforce ecdy; which only has 25mg per capsule?

 

[Mixelflick]

Ecdy is in fact, a fine non-hormonal anabolic agent. There are a few caveats though, prior to use that one needs to be aware of...

First, a quality extract must be used - either from Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract or Suma, IMO. I rather prefer the full spectrum extracts vs. isolating for one particular Ecdysterone, as they retain nature's fingerprint. What I'm referring to here (I'll use RCE, as an example), is that there is a specific ratio of ecdysterones (variously referred to as the "levseins" complex) inherent in the plant. Depending upon who's literature you read, this is a grouping of 10-12 ecdysterones, inclusive also of various tannins, resins etc.. These are important, complimentary compounds that convey many beneficial effects. For example, one of the tannins in RCE mitigates the body's ability to convert glucose to triglyceride (fat storage).

It's my opinion that a good Ecdy product at least contain this as a base (full spectrum RCE and/or Suma). I think Tonavara realized this too, as their latest offering "MegaTurk", now includes just such an arrangement.

There is merit however, in isolated Ecdy's such as Turkesterone/Cyasterone etc.. The sapogenin analogs such as 5-alpha-hydroxy laxogenin/25-R are even more efficient, allowing for a much smaller mg. amount to be used. Laxogenin was last seen on the market in the form of Maxwell Research's "Anabolica", and was a fantastic recovery/anti-inflammatory agent. Lupus patients and others with inflammatory conditions bought caseloads of the stuff. The legit Laxogenin (raws), were manufactured by Mark Thierman, of former Amino Discounters/Mesobolin fame. He also formulated ZOE DISCOVERIES (not Labs) Zebutol, Ecdysterone and Hexandrolone. Unfortunately, Mark passed away on or about the first of this year. His formula's however, didn't die with him...

Next, adaptogens have a different optimal use paradigm vs. anabolics. They allow the body to adapt more efficiently to a given environmental stress. Used in the absence of such a stressor, adaptogens perform sub-optimally. This is precisely where most users go wrong, although even then some benefit is usually realized. Here's a short list of what to look for, when using a quality Ecdysterone extract:

FIRST 3 DAYS


- Deeper sleep
- Noticeable increase in VO2 max
- Thirst


WITHIN 2 WEEKS


- Noticeable decrease in DOMS
- Improved intra-set recovery
- Improved inter-workout recovery
- Ability to move more total tonnage per unit of time


WEEK 3 and BEYOND


- Profound decrease in DOMS
- Big improvement in intra-set recovery, by as much as 30 sec with the ability to move the
same weights/reps.
- Ability to squeeze at least one extra workout in per week due to improved recovery
- Visible increase in LBM*
- Visible leaning effect*


* The latter two here are obviously dependent upon diet, etc.


You will also notice other curious effects. For example, your nails will grow much faster and you'll have to clip them more frequently. Tell me if I'm right on that one.


Your real challenge is to leverage all that Ecdy brings to the table within the context of a sound over-reaching/loading and de-loading program. If you'd like assistance with that, feel free to PM me. You have top notch supplements there, it just makes sense to get the most out of them and yes, there are ways to accelerate their effects.

 

[mattrag]

how would one "increase the effects?"

I noticed that it made my back bigger and my muscles fuller. But I was running it at 6 caps a day, plus taking substerone (making 4 bottles last basically 1 month....)

 

[MAxximal]

Ecdy is in fact, a fine non-hormonal anabolic agent. There are a few caveats though, prior to use that one needs to be aware of...

First, a quality extract must be used - either from Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract or Suma, IMO. I rather prefer the full spectrum extracts vs. isolating for one particular Ecdysterone, as they retain nature's fingerprint. What I'm referring to here (I'll use RCE, as an example), is that there is a specific ratio of ecdysterones (variously referred to as the "levseins" complex) inherent in the plant. Depending upon who's literature you read, this is a grouping of 10-12 ecdysterones, inclusive also of various tannins, resins etc.. These are important, complimentary compounds that convey many beneficial effects. For example, one of the tannins in RCE mitigates the body's ability to convert glucose to triglyceride (fat storage).

It's my opinion that a good Ecdy product at least contain this as a base (full spectrum RCE and/or Suma). I think Tonavara realized this too, as their latest offering "MegaTurk", now includes just such an arrangement.

There is merit however, in isolated Ecdy's such as Turkesterone/Cyasterone etc.. The sapogenin analogs such as 5-alpha-hydroxy laxogenin/25-R are even more efficient, allowing for a much smaller mg. amount to be used. Laxogenin was last seen on the market in the form of Maxwell Research's "Anabolica", and was a fantastic recovery/anti-inflammatory agent. Lupus patients and others with inflammatory conditions bought caseloads of the stuff. The legit Laxogenin (raws), were manufactured by Mark Thierman, of former Amino Discounters/Mesobolin fame. He also formulated ZOE DISCOVERIES (not Labs) Zebutol, Ecdysterone and Hexandrolone. Unfortunately, Mark passed away on or about the first of this year. His formula's however, didn't die with him...

Next, adaptogens have a different optimal use paradigm vs. anabolics. They allow the body to adapt more efficiently to a given environmental stress. Used in the absence of such a stressor, adaptogens perform sub-optimally. This is precisely where most users go wrong, although even then some benefit is usually realized. Here's a short list of what to look for, when using a quality Ecdysterone extract:

FIRST 3 DAYS


- Deeper sleep
- Noticeable increase in VO2 max
- Thirst


WITHIN 2 WEEKS


- Noticeable decrease in DOMS
- Improved intra-set recovery
- Improved inter-workout recovery
- Ability to move more total tonnage per unit of time


WEEK 3 and BEYOND


- Profound decrease in DOMS
- Big improvement in intra-set recovery, by as much as 30 sec with the ability to move the
same weights/reps.
- Ability to squeeze at least one extra workout in per week due to improved recovery
- Visible increase in LBM*
- Visible leaning effect*


* The latter two here are obviously dependent upon diet, etc.


You will also notice other curious effects. For example, your nails will grow much faster and you'll have to clip them more frequently. Tell me if I'm right on that one.


Your real challenge is to leverage all that Ecdy brings to the table within the context of a sound over-reaching/loading and de-loading program. If you'd like assistance with that, feel free to PM me. You have top notch supplements there, it just makes sense to get the most out of them and yes, there are ways to accelerate their effects.

Amazing!

 

[zendog]

I have been using ecdy over the past few months on cycle, pct and natty and have experienced no discernible
improvement in any areas of training or outside the gym. I suppose I am just a non-responder.

 

[BBB]

I have use ecdy products for years. I love the idea that a product can improve your ovarall health while building muscle. I have tried different brands and even tried megadosing with little to no effect on muscle mass or leaning. I does improve sleep. I use it primarily for that.

 

[Mixelflick]

Thanks man, I was so intrigued with this class of nutraceutical - I wrote a book on it...

"The Blueprint", really started as an ecdysterone optimal use protocol. That's just a SMALL sample, of the kind of information that it includes.

I'll be on SuperHuman Radio this Wednsesday, with more information...

 

[scoooter]

The "blueprint" is the ECDY bible.

 

[Mixelflick]

Thanks man, so it's been said...

I'm pleased to say that 3.0, has been VERY well received. Time stands still for no man though, I really need to get to work on topping it...

 

[poison]

I used ecdy, gave it a solid run, and got nothing. I refuse to prescribe to the 'you need to up your protein' or you need to change your workout' school of thought. Yes, you usually gain mass when you increase your protein and/or change/improve your workout, irrespective of ecdy use.

 

[mattrag]

Thanks man, I was so intrigued with this class of nutraceutical - I wrote a book on it...

"The Blueprint", really started as an ecdysterone optimal use protocol. That's just a SMALL sample, of the kind of information that it includes.

I'll be on SuperHuman Radio this Wednsesday, with more information...

I'll be sure to be tuning in!

 

[Mixelflick]

Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link RemovedThis is understandable. Consider though, that adaptogens allow the organism (you), to better respond to a given environmental stress. Given that most run an Ecdy product in the absence of such, results will always be sub-optimal.

Adaptogens are best used within the framework of Dr. Hans Seyle's G.A.S. theory, or General Adaptation to Stress. An alarm signal must be sent to the brain/body of sufficient magnitude, whereupon adaptogens like Ecdy are introduced into the mix. Once in that context, results are consistently favorable.

With respect to this point, I regularly encourage users of The BP to make their first run devoid of supps like Ecdy and THEN introduce it during run #2. This allows the user to have a "baseline" from which to draw. The inevitable conclusion that these folk arrive at is that Ecdy does in fact, allow for more substantial gains. This, largely due to the fact that it improves recovery from exercise, mitigating DOMS and allowing for a greater amount of work to be done, per unit of time. Given those advantages, we leverage by 1.) Performing workouts more frequently and 2.) Squeezing more total tonnage in per workout.

Again, fully aware there seems to be a 50/50 love-hate split on the product. Tragically, adaptogens like Ecdy were positioned as anabolics when introduced to the Western world. You simply cannot take a non-hormonal anabolic agent, and position it in a "cycle", treating it as a hormonal product. This fundamental flaw has really given Ecdy a bad name. Fortunately, done right it delivers in spades. I well understand not everyone will be willing to massage their training/diet etc. to accommodate its MOA (mode of action). Still, there is much benefit to be gained from this nutraceutical, not the least of which are healthy cholesterol levels. Witness then, the following...

The ecdysteroid(s) most proficient at lowering such, is Integristerone A and B:

It appears Ecdysterone is a more potent cholesterol lowering (hypocholesterolemic) agent than previously thought. Experiments in rats with deliberately induced hyper-cholesterol yielded exceptional results when Ecdy was administered. The key seems to be this.... the cholesterol lowering effect corresponds with the number of hydroxyl groups present in the molecules. In this regard, the most active Ecdysterone was found to be integristerone A and B, present in our old friend Rhaponticum:

Integristerone A
Integristerone B

(see attachments)

These monsters have a molecular weight of 496 and 512, respectively. As you can see, plenty of hydroxyl groups which seem to be the key to itscholesterol lowering effects.

Let's look at another Ecdy though, something more uniquitous in the market, 20-H (bottom attachment, labeled "Ecdy"). It gives us some perspective as to just how profound this impact on cholesterol lowering is...

After daily administration of 20- hydroxyecdysone at a dose of 2.5 mg/kg to the animals with high cholesterol for 3, 6 and 8 weeks, the cholesterol level was decreased by 7.0%, 16.9% and 29%, respectively.

Hampshire, F.; Horn, D.H.S. Chem. Commun., 37-38.

That's a HUGE improvement and it only appears to accelerate as time goes by, not diminish. Look at the jump from weeks 6 to 8. It's almost as big as weeks 3 to 6 over a third shorter duration!

So what's going on?

The data obtained suggest a competition between cholesterol and Ecdy when being incorporated into the cell membrane. It seems that for some reason, the body prefers to use Ecdy vs. cholesterol given the choice.

PRACTICAL FINDING: If you have high cholesterol, Ecdy may very well benefit you.

 

[AutoKal47]

Aside from the cholesterol, are you suggesting that ecy would benefit a stressed body?
If so that'd explain my good results with it, my body is way more than stressed, is constantly on the verge of a breakdown due to the strict diet, more often than not calories deficit and the frequency/intensity of my wo.
Anyways, i liked it and i have two more bottles of E-bol that i will run soonish

 

[schizm]

I think that'd be the main benefit of adaptogens in general...?

Per wiki: An adaptogen is a herbal product claimed to increase resistance to stress, trauma, anxiety and fatigue.

 

[Mixelflick]

This is in fact, it's reason for being... The benefits adaptogens convey in mammals (including humans), is almost as broad as that as fish oil. Huge statement, right? Hardly, if one is familiar with the literature on the stuff (particularly Ecdysterone, and its sapogenin analogs). In fact, in 3.0 I went WAY out on a limb, predicting that Ecdy will ultimately be found to be more beneficial to humans than fish oil.

Something I likely won't live to see, but my son most likely will. Any doubts about that will be quickly erased, after perusing the historical literature performed by Dr. Syrov, and the research ongoing in Hungary, Rutgers and elsewhere around the world. Witness for example, its introduction into former Soviet pharmacopia during the 1960's. It was originally prescribed to those that were sick, recovering from stress related injuries (including soliders), and the diseased.

The latter point/condition is very telling; Disease is literally dis-ease, or someone undergoing stress. The effects are subtle when administered in the absence of an environmental stress. Not so subtle, when introduced at the right time - and in concert with some other twists we use in The Blueprint...

 

[Mixelflick]

Interesting tid-bit - This is easily validated by taking one's waking pulse rate, given the same biological stressors and concurrent administration of Ecdy/without Ecdy.

Your average daily waking heart rate, reveals much...

 

[SuppJunkie]

Ok, so I have two bottles of IForce Ecdy and two bottles of Substerone. If it needs to be high dosed and doesed frequently, how should I set this up. I am running an 8 to 10 week all natty stack before going on next Prohormone cycle.

Stack will consist of Anebata, HcGenerate, Phytoserms 347, and DAA powder. I will also be using creatine, preworkout, and prob a fat burner as well. Thank you..SJ

 

[StackedCop]

For the iforce ecdy I like to dose 50mg 3-4 times a day. Sometimes I'll take 75mg pre workout for an extra pump.

 

[SuppJunkie]

For the iforce ecdy I like to dose 50mg 3-4 times a day. Sometimes I'll take 75mg pre workout for an extra pump.

Thanks STaked. BTW, how have you been?

What supps you taking now, still the Redefine ANdro?

SJ

 

[StackedCop]

Thanks STaked. BTW, how have you been?

What supps you taking now, still the Redefine ANdro?

SJ

Yup about 2 weeks in on my andro run. Can't wait to get back on ecdy lol I'm gonna run ebol, substerone and ecdymorph after PCT!

 

[SuppJunkie]

Yup about 2 weeks in on my andro run. Can't wait to get back on ecdy lol I'm gonna run ebol, substerone and ecdymorph after PCT!

Never ran the ecdymorph. How is that product?

SJ

BTW, how do you like thee Andro product so far..SJ

 

[StackedCop]

Never ran the ecdymorph. How is that product?

SJ

BTW, how do you like thee Andro product so far..SJ

Ecdymorph=iforce ecdy. I thought you used it, no?

 

[mattrag]

Yup about 2 weeks in on my andro run. Can't wait to get back on ecdy lol I'm gonna run ebol, substerone and ecdymorph after PCT!

Do you think running THAT much ecdy isn't too much?

 

[StackedCop]

Do you think running THAT much ecdy isn't too much?

Nope not at all

 

[mattrag]

Nope not at all

Hehe. How much ecdy is that total? Was thinking of adding ecdy to my next supp run but Ebol and is pricey and the iForce one is still iffy IMO. I took two bottles but I think I had too many variables at that time to really test it.
Though everyone around me thought I was on cycle at the time. Lol.

 

[Mixelflick]

The LD50 in mice (or the dose that kills 50% of the animals), is 9 GRAMS per kg of bodyweight. This is an insanely huge dose, and nobody in their right minds would want (or need) this much. In fact, some of the latest studies point to a lower than previously reported dosage threshold to obtain at least some of the benefits.

This particular dose is far lower than the oft cited 5mg/kg dosing threshold, seen in many studies. This is especially true for compounds like 25-R and related sapogenin analogs, some of which are effective at just 10-30mg/day - per former Soviet studies on Compounds I - IV. Dr. Syrov himself (considered the godfather of Ecdy research), has his name on that paper...

 

[mattrag]

The LD50 in mice (or the dose that kills 50% of the animals), is 9 GRAMS per kg of bodyweight. This is an insanely huge dose, and nobody in their right minds would want (or need) this much. In fact, some of the latest studies point to a lower than previously reported dosage threshold to obtain at least some of the benefits.

This particular dose is far lower than the oft cited 5mg/kg dosing threshold, seen in many studies. This is especially true for compounds like 25-R and related sapogenin analogs, some of which are effective at just 10-30mg/day - per former Soviet studies on Compounds I - IV. Dr. Syrov himself (considered the godfather of Ecdy research), has his name on that paper...

Very interesting. that strain of ECDY is the ECDY only found in Ebol I take it?

 

[JudoJosh]

This is in fact, it's reason for being... The benefits adaptogens convey in mammals (including humans), is almost as broad as that as fish oil. Huge statement, right? Hardly, if one is familiar with the literature on the stuff (particularly Ecdysterone, and its sapogenin analogs). In fact, in 3.0 I went WAY out on a limb, predicting that Ecdy will ultimately be found to be more beneficial to humans than fish oil.

Something I likely won't live to see, but my son most likely will. Any doubts about that will be quickly erased, after perusing the historical literature performed by Dr. Syrov, and the research ongoing in Hungary, Rutgers and elsewhere around the world. Witness for example, its introduction into former Soviet pharmacopia during the 1960's. It was originally prescribed to those that were sick, recovering from stress related injuries (including soliders), and the diseased.

The latter point/condition is very telling; Disease is literally dis-ease, or someone undergoing stress. The effects are subtle when administered in the absence of an environmental stress. Not so subtle, when introduced at the right time - and in concert with some other twists we use in The Blueprint...

What is this blueprint? A supplement product? book?

 

[mattrag]

What is this blueprint? A supplement product? book?

A book. If you have more questions about it, or about the author Rob Regish you can check some of his interviews over at super human radio podcast archives.

 

[JudoJosh]

I never bought into the ecdy hype and always just brushed it off as one of those products that looks good on paper but doesnt translate well into the real world BUT your postings Mixelflick has me thinking I should really look into this.

I notice you have cited a couple of studies and researchers... are any of these done on healthy adults and taken orally?

Also what does this blueprint book cover? Just ecdy or are other adaptagens covered as well? Anything of training or diet or other supplements?

 

[mattrag]

I never bought into the ecdy hype and always just brushed it off as one of those products that looks good on paper but doesnt translate well into the real world BUT your postings Mixelflick has me thinking I should really look into this.

I notice you have cited a couple of studies and researchers... are any of these done on healthy adults and taken orally?

Also what does this blueprint book cover? Just ecdy or are other adaptagens covered as well? Anything of training or diet or other supplements?

Definitely has a lot of supplement recommendations. But in tandem with nutrition and training. It gives you a basic guide that you can manipulate and change as you progress. It's more of a way for you to rethink things and try new things that are presented in a way to be modified to you. Rob will help you change it. He will do IM or skype with you if you like. He is also very responsive via email and PMs here.

I will be running a log ( well it will be logged with me next log using blueprint diet protocols and training) so my next log you can check and make your decision then. As I will also make my analysis and review. I bought the book flat out and didn't get any promotional discount so this is in no way a promotion.

 

[JudoJosh]

Definitely has a lot of supplement recommendations. But in tandem with nutrition and training. It gives you a basic guide that you can manipulate and change as you progress. It's more of a way for you to rethink things and try new things that are presented in a way to be modified to you. Rob will help you change it. He will do IM or skype with you if you like. He is also very responsive via email and PMs here.

I will be running a log ( well it will be logged with me next log using blueprint diet protocols and training) so my next log you can check and make your decision then. As I will also make my analysis and review. I bought the book flat out and didn't get any promotional discount so this is in no way a promotion.

Thanks be sure to link me when the log is up

 

[Mixelflick]

I never bought into the ecdy hype and always just brushed it off as one of those products that looks good on paper but doesnt translate well into the real world BUT your postings Mixelflick has me thinking I should really look into this.

I notice you have cited a couple of studies and researchers... are any of these done on healthy adults and taken orally?

Also what does this blueprint book cover? Just ecdy or are other adaptagens covered as well? Anything of training or diet or other supplements?

I appreciate the opportunity, to answer your questions...

The specific studies I cited here, were applicable to rats and/or in-vitro testing. However, there were human studies done on sportsmen, sailors, soldiers and patients recovering from illness performed long ago in the former Soviet Union. More recently, Rutgers has been aggressively studying human cell cultures treated with ecdysterone and VERY positive findings have resulted. This therefore sets the table for human studies in the West, in the near future. Admittedly, there aren't enough human studies on the the compound (yet). However, there is enough research in mammals (as well as anecdotal evidence) IMO, that it's at least worthy of investigation.

Perhaps the best resource to date that illustrates its broad range of (healthful and performance enhancing) benefits is this paper -
Invalid Link Removed
Dr. Syrov's work though, isn't the sole source of study on the subject. Far from it.. For my money, much of the best research going on today is taking place at the University of Szeged, in Hungary. Their research papers average $55/pop, and are available here -
Invalid Link Removed
It would be a fair statement to say I dropped a small fortune on these, in my research done for The BP 3.0. They're just PIECES of the puzzle though, needed to put it all together. What I'm saying here is this; These research papers offer tantalizing clues but fall short, insofar as how to arrive at the best practical application (for growing muscle). Given their MOA is better adaptation to stress, Dr. Hans Seyle's G.A.S. model (General Adaptation to Stress), is yet another piece that needs to be taken into consideration.


The Blueprint takes ALL of this (and more) into consideration, ultimately arriving at an optimal use protocol the reader can apply to accomplish a broad range of goals.

WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT IT: Perhaps the biggest contribution BP brings to the table is this; A repeatable "shell" or framework, within which to work that more or less makes muscle growth, strength acquisition etc., "failsafe". The fact that it's repeatable is extremely important, given gains that pile up over months and years, are what grows real and lasting drug free muscle.

That's a big claim, yet virtually any BP review will support this statement. Those that have used it, know what I'm talking about. You may think of it as follows... I've combed the iron game's past and present to weed out all the fluff. What remains is a carefully arranged "best of the best" insofar as training systems, diets and supplementation strategies that bear a VERY healthy success rate, across a broad cross -section of the public that uses it. 3.0 goes a step beyond this, marrying a set of known training and dietary strategies to optimize Ecdysterone's benefits. The key here is that while these systems are "known", no one has married/arranged them in such a fashion that deliver a "combustion engine" like protocol, that magnifies their results. Alone, they are powerful stimuli for muscle growth/fat loss. Together though, they are much, much more powerful.

Again, big statement - But I have a list a mile long, of guys willing to testify to that fact from CT to Australia.

If so inclined, more about The BP can be found here:

[h=2]# 721 - Restorative Sleep On Demand.. NOW... PLUS The Blueprint For The Perfect Body[/h]Wednesday, 27 April 2011 10:42 | Invalid Link Removed
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[TD]Super Human Radio Show[/TD]
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​

Guest: Paul Becker & Rob Regish
Sleep continues to be the pivotal point for recover, health and longevity. Yet many people find deep recuperative sleep elusive. Becker and I discuss why this may be and what can be done about it PLUS Regish talks about how The Blueprint may be the one guide to building muscle and strength while slashing body fat that doesn't make you change what you're doing.... just how and when you do it - to spark continuous uninterrupted progress.
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[h=4][/h]​

 

[Mixelflick]

Very interesting. that strain of ECDY is the ECDY only found in Ebol I take it?

Not quite. E-bol contains Ecdysterone from Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract, as well as an analog (25-R), and Turkesterone derived from Ajuga Turkistana. RCE is considered THE source genus for Ecdysterone, but here's where it gets confusing. At last count, there were 454 known ecdysterones... RCE contains a special complex of ecdyseroids, referred to as the "levseins" complex in the former Soviet literature. This is a grouping of 10-12 ecdysteroids (depending upon who's literature you read), in a very specific ratio. The plant also contains beneficial tannins and resins. For example, one of these tannins mitigates your body's ability to convert glucose to triglyceride (store it as fat). The same cannot be said of Cyanotis Vaga extract, for example - which is typically standardized for 20-hydroxyecdysterone content.

There are scant few, QUALITY RCE products on the market. Many are adultered Chinese blends, purporting to be RCE. What you'll find though, upon analysis is at best a smidgeon of RCE, along with the 20-H content spiked - usually from the source material Cyanotis Vaga or other inferior source genus (i.e. polypodium vulgare). These are after all, the fine folks who slipped Melamine into infant formula - not once but TWICE.

That was AFTER babies died in this country...

 

[mattrag]

Not quite. E-bol contains Ecdysterone from Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract, as well as an analog (25-R), and Turkesterone derived from Ajuga Turkistana. RCE is considered THE source genus for Ecdysterone, but here's where it gets confusing. At last count, there were 454 known ecdysterones... RCE contains a special complex of ecdyseroids, referred to as the "levseins" complex in the former Soviet literature. This is a grouping of 10-12 ecdysteroids (depending upon who's literature you read), in a very specific ratio. The plant also contains beneficial tannins and resins. For example, one of these tannins mitigates your body's ability to convert glucose to triglyceride (store it as fat). The same cannot be said of Cyanotis Vaga extract, for example - which is typically standardized for 20-hydroxyecdysterone content.

There are scant few, QUALITY RCE products on the market. Many are adultered Chinese blends, purporting to be RCE. What you'll find though, upon analysis is at best a smidgeon of RCE, along with the 20-H content spiked - usually from the source material Cyanotis Vaga or other inferior source genus (i.e. polypodium vulgare). These are after all, the fine folks who slipped Melamine into infant formula - not once but TWICE.

That was AFTER babies died in this country...

I see. I will give it a run when I get the money to

 

[Whacked]

Mixel

Can u go on the record and state your position definitively and with certainty if EBOL, I-Force's ECD, and Tovara's are legit?

 

[flightposite]

Mixel

Can u go on the record and state your position definitively and with certainty if EBOL, I-Force's ECD, and Tovara's are legit?

Same here. I 2 would like to know in your opinion what products are legit.

 

[Mixelflick]

Mixel

Can u go on the record and state your position definitively and with certainty if EBOL, I-Force's ECD, and Tovara's are legit?

Certainly. Bear in mind this is just my opinion, but it's based upon the experiences of my folk (over 900 now), running these various products within BP's "shell" - in Ebol's case for years...

E-bol - Formula is top notch, and has been used with great success by my folks since it's been released. Thermolife btw, has an exclusive with The Institute of Chemistry and Plant Sciences (ICPS) in Uzbekistan as the sole distributor of Turkesterone, in the U.S. (see attachment).

Tonovara - Both their TrueTurk and MegaTurk products are excellent. They're out of the UK I believe, and also source their raws from the ICPS.

Ifoce Ecdy - Nothing against Iforce, but I'm not a fan. The over-standardization for 20-hydroxyecdysterone isn't optimal IMO, though they went the extra mile to get it out of the correct source genus (Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract). I've run 20-H standalone in gram amounts orally and transdermally, with moderate success at best (trans was much superior to oral). I've also used sublingual 20-H, via a cyclodextrin medium and noted little, vs. other Ecdy's I've run.

The bottom line is IMO, is that nature doesn't f'up. Meaning when man over-standardizes for what he thinks is the "active", things go awry. If you study the literature carefully, there's an over-abundance of 20-H studies done on furry little creatures. The results IMO, never measured up to a full spectrum RCE extract, for reasons stated prior.

Turkesterone, 25-R and up to 4/5 other sapogenin analogs are another story. With 454 identified ecdysterones to date, it's quite a job isolating the optimal one/grouping. I rather doubt man will top the levseins complex found in RCE and what it has to offer, insofar as both health/wellness and performance enhancement.

Still, I know who's trying....