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DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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F355 said:
I wasn't assuming anything about false positives, I didn't even mention false positives, rather the opposite. I said that I pissed clean while using Craze. That statement was a response to the post saying that the lawsuit is claiming that it contains amphetamine. What I'm saying is, I pissed clean WHILE using Craze, no false positives, no positives, no nothing. And it wasn't just a regular ole UA kit from CVS or Walgreens. It was registered with and done by Redwood Toxicology, so you know it was a damn accurate test(s). And again, I was tested multiple times. If Craze contained amphetamine, it would've popped up on my tests.

You're right, I meant to say DEA. Maybe, I don't understand what the deal is with this lawsuit. What are they (FDA) exactly trying to go after? The fact that the product as a whole isn't qualified as a dietary supp or specific ingredients? Sorry, I haven't looked at the actual lawsuit. But if they are going after it for containing amphetamine specifically, then they will lose because it clearly doesn't. I know what Adderall feels like it and I don't care what anyone says, Craze doesn't last as nearly as long as Adderall (IR or XR), not even close. Either way, this would put A LOT of products on the brink as a lot of products contain ingredients that probably weren't filed for a NDI, among other things.
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its clear that it does not contain amphetamine of a known derivative of amphetamine.

the question is what DOES it contain, and is everything it contains written on the label
 
Why does everyone keep talking about what the FDA is looking for or doing to Craze? They haven't done **** as far as we know! This is a civil lawsuit, looking for cash
 
JezPudzian said:
but seriously the link to the emails posted is pretty bait. how they transacted to acquire compound etcs isnt a v pleasant read, if those emails are even real that is..
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The e-mails COULD be fake, but then were left with the question of how someone knew to send two packages through UPS to Driven Sports offices in 2011, and then keep the tracking numbers for use in faking this conversation. Pretty elaborate.
 
DHT420 said:
The e-mails COULD be fake, but then were left with the question of how someone knew to send two packages through UPS to Driven Sports offices in 2011, and then keep the tracking numbers for use in faking this conversation. Pretty elaborate.
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bin laden could still be alive

we may have never landed on the moon either
 
DHT420 said:
The e-mails COULD be fake, but then were left with the question of how someone knew to send two packages through UPS to Driven Sports offices in 2011, and then keep the tracking numbers for use in faking this conversation. Pretty elaborate.
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Assuming they are real, i wonder how they got a hold of them, i'm pretty sure hacking into someone's email is not exactly legal?
 
update: results came back negative. I'm getting the paper work sent to me and if anything looks suspect ill ask about it on here. but I'm pretty happy as I'm not jobless I'm keeping my job !!!
 
Got my first tub of craze today just dosed my first dose, this better be good sh1t!
 
Well I happen to have 3 tubs of Craze still wrapped in plastic that I'll never use. Not due to all this nonsense, but because I get nothing out of it. :(
 
jobless said:
update: results came back negative. I'm getting the paper work sent to me and if anything looks suspect ill ask about it on here. but I'm pretty happy as I'm not jobless I'm keeping my job !!!
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Now you jut have to change your name to 'job'. ;)
 
DJBeanPole said:
Well I happen to have 3 tubs of Craze still wrapped in plastic that I'll never use. Not due to all this nonsense, but because I get nothing out of it. :(
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maybe you'll be kind enough to send me just.. one???? :)
 
<p>
southpaw23 said:
Which one of us is keen on taking away an option from consumers, and using selfish in the same breathe? Look I'm done, you guys will probably be successful in getting it removed from the market. But for those who haven't tried it just yet, I'm not a rep, trust me when I tell you it's hands down the best PWO that you'll ever invest in.
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Bull****. It's the worst and possibly the most dangerous product you can use. If it doesn't destroy your physical health it certainly will your mental health.</p>
 
alfredm005 said:
Interested in trading for 2 sealed bottles of DCP?
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Already got one bottle and I'm good to go. Thx for offer though ;-).
 
saggy321 said:
<p>
Bull****. It's the worst and possibly the most dangerous product you can use. If it doesn't destroy your physical health it certainly will your mental health.</p>
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Love statements not backed by any evidence! Makes people sound real intelligent!....
 
so whats the status of this? Oh nothing? you mean nothing is happening at all with this??? yep

oh so what you are saying is that this hype just helped sell hundreds and hundreds of tubs of craze? yep

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

brb making product, then having frivoulous lawyer file suit to help sell my product.

flame on... not saying WHY but it most certainly did happen.
 
StangBanger said:
so whats the status of this? Oh nothing? you mean nothing is happening at all with this??? yep

oh so what you are saying is that this hype just helped sell hundreds and hundreds of tubs of craze? yep

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

brb making product, then having frivoulous lawyer file suit to help sell my product.

flame on... not saying WHY but it most certainly did happen.
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Craze didnt need any help, it sells itself.
 
StangBanger said:
so whats the status of this? Oh nothing? you mean nothing is happening at all with this??? yep

oh so what you are saying is that this hype just helped sell hundreds and hundreds of tubs of craze? yep

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

brb making product, then having frivoulous lawyer file suit to help sell my product.

flame on... not saying WHY but it most certainly did happen.
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there is zero possibility that this lawsuit was faked in order to sell product. the law firm that is the plaintiff is well known and has a long history of suing other supp companies.

these lawsuits take a long time to proceed btw
 
Patrick Arnold said:
there is zero possibility that this lawsuit was faked in order to sell product. the law firm that is the plaintiff is well known and has a long history of suing other supp companies.

these lawsuits take a long time to proceed btw
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And meanwhile the defendant seems to be viewed by the majority as guilty until proven innocent. Hmm.
 
StangBanger said:
so whats the status of this? Oh nothing? you mean nothing is happening at all with this??? yep

oh so what you are saying is that this hype just helped sell hundreds and hundreds of tubs of craze? yep

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

brb making product, then having frivoulous lawyer file suit to help sell my product.

flame on... not saying WHY but it most certainly did happen.
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Lol, not much experience with the justice system apparently Stang. This thread isn't even that old and you're concluding that because something hasn't happened yet it was bunk to entice sales?

Driven Sports hasn't been active in their own forum since this happened. Craze was already selling extremely well. And sure, some people either stocked up on it or tried it to see what all the hype is. But just as many people probably aren't trying it or have taken it off their list. Craze was a pre-workout I was dying to try and had never got around to. Once this happened my excitement stopped. I figured if it's good it'll be available after the suit. And if it's not what they claim then I don't want to mess with it. Basically i went from someone who wanted to try it to someone who is waiting because of the lawsuit.

Craze isn't Driven's only product, and casting the company in this light has no doubt been a net negative for them. The idea that they did this on purpose remains laughable.
 
So the jist of this is that people believe there is an amphetamine or designer analog in this supplement, similar to SlimXtreme by AX?

How has it just not cut the negative press and discontinued their product.

AX's tested negative as well due to some structural difference right?
 
No no... you all misunderstand. I am not saying its bunk in any way. But its a well known scheister lawyer/firm. And Craze's sales increase 200%...

not saying they faked it, planned it, had anything to do with it... but..

DS has now made a bundle due to this 'publicity'...

to the 'craze sells itself' comment - sure it does, but not to this extreme....

DS has profited over this suit... goes to show that there is no such thing as bad publicity.
 
StangBanger said:
No no... you all misunderstand. I am not saying its bunk in any way. But its a well known scheister lawyer/firm. And Craze's sales increase 200%...

not saying they faked it, planned it, had anything to do with it... but..

DS has now made a bundle due to this 'publicity'...

to the 'craze sells itself' comment - sure it does, but not to this extreme....

DS has profited over this suit... goes to show that there is no such thing as bad publicity.
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Well you've changed from saying they did it on purpose to that they've profited from it. No doubt in the short term sales of Craze increased as fans stocked up and surely it piqued the interest of some people to use it. But (like me) it kept some from buying it. It has kept them from being active on their forums. It has cast the rest of their products in a negative light fair or not. The idea that this has been a good thing for Driven remains laughable. Craze was already selling like hot cakes before this. I'm sure DS would have preferred this suit not to come to light.
 
wonder if PA tested craze old or new formula

I see creatine mono listed as 1st ingredient v/s TMG in the older formula

DS commented no ingredients "change" though
 
raptor2003 said:
wonder if PA tested craze old or new formula

I see creatine mono listed as 1st ingredient v/s TMG in the older formula

DS commented no ingredients "change" though
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It was explained here:
Invalid Link Removed
 
Creatine mono was in both bottles. The link in the previous page explains the reason for the change.
 
Bought a tub of this last week. By far the best preworkout I have tried. This better not get discontinued any time soon.
 
bigdavid said:
Bought a tub of this last week. By far the best preworkout I have tried. This better not get discontinued any time soon.
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I just started it, good first dose haven't got any thing out of it since though unfortunately. I respond way better to jack3d..
 
saggy321 said:
<p>
Bull****. It's the worst and possibly the most dangerous product you can use. If it doesn't destroy your physical health it certainly will your mental health.</p>
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Got a good laugh from this lol. The fact that this statement is so vague clearly shows the ignorance of it. Regardless of any fact in any statement like this, it's always worth avoiding taking seriously... And because I'm bored .... hehe

"The most dangerous product you'll ever use" - Product? of ANY product? Guess superdrol has nothing on craze? You're dropping some serious bro-knowledge here :) lol

Patrick Arnold said:
I dont get that impression. Most seem to give them the benefit of the doubt. personally i am neutral
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I guess Zaxxxon means among the general public, the news media seems to always like to sensationalize supplement companies stories to make a quick buck... 'Does your workout supplement contain illegal narcotics?!?! Find out more at 9pm...'

For the most part the community thats seen this BS parade before will probably give DS the benefit of the doubt though.
 
Don't you guys think that it is the responsibility of a company to TEST the raw materials for hidden drugs, especially after getting such unusual and unheard effects from a herbal extract? Let's assume a scenario where the raw material supplier indeed spiked the herbal extract with an amphetamine analogon, which in turn was/is the culprit for those sensational stim effects of said herbal extract. Shouldn't ANY company that is halfway carrying out their business conscientiously and in a responsible manner ring the alarm bells and test the hell out of that extract before forwarding it to end users /consumers?

Mixelflick said:
Used 2 bottles of Craze, liked it. I have an insane stim tolerance so didn't get THAT jacked up. More of a nootropic effect, IMO. One that I liked too...

I'm curious to see how this turns out, but find it highly unlikely DS would knowingly spike their product. HIGHLY unlikely. Far more likely IMO, their manufacturer did so, adding something on the sly.

If that's the case, I feel bad for DS and what they're going through. If a company works hard to innovate and bring new compounds to market that are efficacious, more power to them. I know nothing of what's required to file with the gov't given said new compound requires such, but I think it'd be a mistake to assume all companies know this. I just got done formulating my first product, and was f'n shocked at how LITTLE the raw material suppliers/labs know. Needless to say, I didn't use them, and elected to have my formula done/distributed by someone who's been in the business for nearly 20 years...

Assumptions = big mistake in life, but especially so in the supplement biz. Nobody wants to see anyone get hurt. Unfortunately, even the best of intentions can't prevent a tragedy from occurring.

Having said that, I've heard nothing of the sort in this instance - and hope it stays that way...
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jwa254 said:
exactly.



Agreed wholeheartedly. I don't think DS is a company that would do that. Now their source? That may be a different story. I love craze and feel great while dosing it. I don't feel stimmed out, nor do I feel like I'm on anything illegal.
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Well, that might depend on the actual compound, but methamphetamine and MDMA are actually considered to elicit neurotoxic effects. I don't know in how far such effects may extend to various PEA analogs/metabolites as well but a little voice tells me that most supplement companies most likely don't know that either....


Patrick Arnold said:
stimulants dont really cause brain damage, at least not directly. they can by promoting strokes of course. any cns stimulant can increase the risk of stroke
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ottonis said:
Well, that might depend on the actual compound, but methamphetamine and MDMA are actually considered to elicit neurotoxic effects. I don't know in how far such effects may extend to various PEA analogs/metabolites as well but a little voice tells me that most supplement companies most likely don't know that either....
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If the PEA analogue can potentiate MAO (many do), or decrease intraneuronal catecholamine production, permanent neurotoxicity may be realized - especially if used chronically.

This is why PEA analogues are supposed to be thoroughly tested before being released to the market.

N-Benzyl-2-phenylethylamine has no such testing.
 
Thank you!
Somehow I can't escape the impression that history might be repeating (AX SX issue in 2008/2009)....

SIGH!


madchemist said:
If the PEA analogue can potentiate MAO (many do), or decrease intraneuronal catecholamine production, permanent neurotoxicity may be realized - especially if used chronically.

This is why PEA analogues are supposed to be thoroughly tested before being released to the market.

N-Benzyl-2-phenylethylamine has no such testing.
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madchemist said:
If the PEA analogue can potentiate MAO (many do), or decrease intraneuronal catecholamine production, permanent neurotoxicity may be realized - especially if used chronically.

This is why PEA analogues are supposed to be thoroughly tested before being released to the market.

N-Benzyl-2-phenylethylamine has no such testing.
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What kind of effects would come about from this neurotoxicity?
 
madchemist said:
If the PEA analogue can potentiate MAO (many do), or decrease intraneuronal catecholamine production, permanent neurotoxicity may be realized - especially if used chronically.

This is why PEA analogues are supposed to be thoroughly tested before being released to the market.

N-Benzyl-2-phenylethylamine has no such testing.
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MuscleGauge1 said:
Wow this is interestingand the research to actually back it up. Better stock up!
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I find these posts back to back very telling about people's mentality in general.


Im not saying this is relevant to the product in question, but it does not give me much hope for humanity ;)
 
3clipseGT said:
What kind of effects would come about from this neurotoxicity?
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Depends on the degree of neurotoxicity and the neuron-specific method of reducing intraneuronal catecholamines. If it depleted intraneuronal dopamine (mostly via tyrosine hydroxylase inhibition), one could end up with a Parkinsons-like picture.
 
madchemist said:
Depends on the degree of neurotoxicity and the neuron-specific method of reducing intraneuronal catecholamines. If it depleted intraneuronal dopamine (mostly via tyrosine hydroxylase inhibition), one could end up with a Parkinsons-like picture.
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Yikes!! Do not want!!!!
 
madchemist said:
Depends on the degree of neurotoxicity and the neuron-specific method of reducing intraneuronal catecholamines. If it depleted intraneuronal dopamine (mostly via tyrosine hydroxylase inhibition), one could end up with a Parkinsons-like picture.
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I figured so. Thanks for the response bud.
 
SynergyIre said:
Got a good laugh from this lol. The fact that this statement is so vague clearly shows the ignorance of it. Regardless of any fact in any statement like this, it's always worth avoiding taking seriously... And because I'm bored .... hehe

"The most dangerous product you'll ever use" - Product? of ANY product? Guess superdrol has nothing on craze? You're dropping some serious bro-knowledge here :) lol



I guess Zaxxxon means among the general public, the news media seems to always like to sensationalize supplement companies stories to make a quick buck... 'Does your workout supplement contain illegal narcotics?!?! Find out more at 9pm...'

For the most part the community thats seen this BS parade before will probably give DS the benefit of the doubt though.
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Are you referring to the Media's or DS' BS parade
 
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