DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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Angelbolic said:
The basis is threefold. First they state they have reason to believe the product contains amphetamine. Second they claim Dendrobex and Citramine are not dietary ingredients. They also states it's a drug because the product claims to affect the structure or function of the body. Third, they claim that even if these two ingredients (aside from amphetamine) are not a drug, they are certainly new dietary ingredients and DS should have submitted a NDI notification. As a final note they state they have reason to believe Craze does not meet current GMP regulations.

I don't understand how anyone can be against this lawsuit. These are serious allegations and deserve proper attention.
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other than the issue of an amphetamine like compound being in the product that is not listed on the label i think the rest of the charges are kind of frivolous then. Frivolous in that similar charges could be made against 90 percent of sports supplement products and has little to do with safety or being deceptive to the consumer
 
996ttelise said:
. If you know anything about law, you certainly know how very basic and fundamental rights in this country were quickly eroded by Busch and his appointments to the Supreme Court. The average individual has absolutely no idea the impact GHB and his regime had on this country.
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Busch? GHB?

Sounds like were ready for a party!!!
 
996ttelise said:
Yep, Republicans and right wing Christians want to dictate how we live our lives. If you know anything about law, you certainly know how very basic and fundamental rights in this country were quickly eroded by Busch and his appointments to the Supreme Court. The average individual has absolutely no idea the impact GHB and his regime had on this country predicated upon fear and imposing Christian norms on those heathens who believe they should have the power to do with their body as they please. Privacy rights are gone. Government intrusion into our homes, offices and life is wide open now. This mentality bleeds over into all areas of life including what substances we should put in our bodies. Thank big Pharma partly for this, but even more us the mentality that pervades the moral right of their belief that people are basically idiots and need to be told how to live, what to place in their bodies and what to do with their bodies.
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You're kidding right ... what planet have you been on?

Dimmocrits are just as guilty. Big Pharma? It was your boy "Big O" who cut a multi-million dollar deal with them to go along with the passage of ObamaCare - google it. Who is it that's forcing healthy people to buy health insurance - and then outlawing the only kind of insurance that makes economical sense to those people (major medical) ... oh that's right - it's the Dimmocrits.

Who was it that advocated for the VChip in Televisions? Oh right - that was AlGore and the Dims. Who's the ones trying to tell you what kind of car you should buy? Oh right - Dims are. Who are the ones outlawing transfats in California? Hint - it's not Republicans. Who's the ones proposing taxes on sugary sodas? Hint - it's not Republicans.

Bottom line here is BOTH political parties are pieces of **** and both are to blame. The fact that you blame one means you're drinking the kool aide - well, enjoy it until your chosen party bans it brother!
 
Patrick Arnold said:
Busch? GHB?

Sounds like were ready for a party!!!
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Ds craze has amphetamine or so they think. This saves me from having to use the shake and bake method to get mine!Lets take 7 scoops :D

But seriously. FDA started pulling ephedrine back when I was younger for a short time.My mother got scared. Thankfully I out grew my lung problems. It was the only thing that helped. Now you have to buy it with an id. Clenburerol also was a widely avalible medication. Helped alot of people.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
please please not another stupid political argument
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Dont worry. Anywhos I love craze. Hope they keep the formula they have now.
 
HondaV65 said:
You're kidding right ... what planet have you been on?

Dimmocrits are just as guilty. Big Pharma? It was your boy "Big O" who cut a multi-million dollar deal with them to go along with the passage of ObamaCare - google it. Who is it that's forcing healthy people to buy health insurance - and then outlawing the only kind of insurance that makes economical sense to those people (major medical) ... oh that's right - it's the Dimmocrits.

Who was it that advocated for the VChip in Televisions? Oh right - that was AlGore and the Dims. Who's the ones trying to tell you what kind of car you should buy? Oh right - Dims are. Who are the ones outlawing transfats in California? Hint - it's not Republicans. Who's the ones proposing taxes on sugary sodas? Hint - it's not Republicans.

Bottom line here is BOTH political parties are pieces of **** and both are to blame. The fact that you blame one means you're drinking the kool aide - well, enjoy it until your chosen party bans it brother!
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Haha, I used to represent drug companies and medical device companies and I can tell you they are scared to death of democrats being in power.

The 4th amendment, privacy rights, Roe v. Wade, Shiavo right to do with body as please and forcing moral and Christian perceptions upon others is a conservative thought process. Liberals generally think more independently and are not so easy manipulated by fear tactics (GW's theme in practically every speech) and the need for rigid religious and moral structure. Did not expect you to understand. It's cool.

People generally have no concept or understand that the most influential aspect of any president is the power to appoint Supreme Court justices and change the balance of the Supreme Court. Haha, Bush tried to appoint that severely unqualified Evangalist lady in return for the Evangelical vote that carried his election all in the name if eroding Roe v. Wade and permitting a higher level of government intrusion into our daily lives and decisions. Your frusteration in the supplement arena actually emanates from this pervassive philosophy.

BTW, I am a health care lawyer that represented doctors, hospitals, drug and device companies for 12 years so I kind of get the political climate of our health care industry. I have also handled both sides of many class action lawsuits.
 
996ttelise said:
Haha, I used to represent drug companies and medical device companies and I can tell you they are scared to death of democrats being in power.

The 4th amendment, privacy rights, Roe v. Wade, Shiavo right to do with body as please and forcing moral and Christian perceptions upon others is a conservative thought process..
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I would say that those thought processes hijacked the conservative movement.

or, more accurately, the conservative movement hijacked those thought processes in order to gain support to win elections

either way its a shame
 
Patrick Arnold said:
I would say that those thought processes hijacked the conservative movement.or, more accurately, the conservative movement hijacked those thought processes in order to gain support to win elections either way its a shame
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For sure, I actually align with conservative party except on those issues. Disenfranchised with both sides now.
 
Read through the entire thread and am now verrry intrigued as to what action (if any) will be taken against DS and how this will impact on craze. Personally I think craze is a great product. Originally recommended to me by my local supp store, I've found it to be more effective than any other PWO I've taken especially in terms of mental focus and energy. Other products may produce better pumps, but craze just seems to have that something to it!... This being said a while ago I took 2 scoops soon upon waking on an empty stomach and then trained intensely... and one of my mates thought I was on a date with Mandy!
At the end of the day, except for maybe razor8 I cant see past craze as an effective PWO and sooo am hoping that this lawsuit is just a load of B.S.
 
on a date with mandy?
 
I actually googled that yesterday and couldn't find anything on it. I'm interested as well in da slang yo.
 
JezPudzian said:
Ha yep that is correct! There's definitely something strange in kraze... I just hope its legal
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It is legal...... For now lol
 
Did one scoop of craze at 1 o'clock today. Cut my grass, clean my shed and just got done training my back. I love this stuff. I could really care less about the pump.
 
996ttelise said:
Mandy I believe is MDMA/XTC.
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or Molly, but yeah. Are people believing MDMA is in Craze? or is it just the amphetamine aspect that people believe Craze contains? Sorry, I haven't really been keeping up. I could see the belief for an amphetamine being in Craze as Adderall is a combo of dextroamphetamine/amphetamine and that provides some insane focus.
 
Used 2 bottles of Craze, liked it. I have an insane stim tolerance so didn't get THAT jacked up. More of a nootropic effect, IMO. One that I liked too...

I'm curious to see how this turns out, but find it highly unlikely DS would knowingly spike their product. HIGHLY unlikely. Far more likely IMO, their manufacturer did so, adding something on the sly.

If that's the case, I feel bad for DS and what they're going through. If a company works hard to innovate and bring new compounds to market that are efficacious, more power to them. I know nothing of what's required to file with the gov't given said new compound requires such, but I think it'd be a mistake to assume all companies know this. I just got done formulating my first product, and was f'n shocked at how LITTLE the raw material suppliers/labs know. Needless to say, I didn't use them, and elected to have my formula done/distributed by someone who's been in the business for nearly 20 years...

Assumptions = big mistake in life, but especially so in the supplement biz. Nobody wants to see anyone get hurt. Unfortunately, even the best of intentions can't prevent a tragedy from occurring.

Having said that, I've heard nothing of the sort in this instance - and hope it stays that way...
 
3clipseGT said:
lol I would be very surprised if it has MDMA/XTC in it as the affects are nothing close.
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exactly.

Mixelflick said:
Used 2 bottles of Craze, liked it. I have an insane stim tolerance so didn't get THAT jacked up. More of a nootropic effect, IMO. One that I liked too...

I'm curious to see how this turns out, but find it highly unlikely DS would knowingly spike their product. HIGHLY unlikely. Far more likely IMO, their manufacturer did so, adding something on the sly.

If that's the case, I feel bad for DS and what they're going through. If a company works hard to innovate and bring new compounds to market that are efficacious, more power to them. I know nothing of what's required to file with the gov't given said new compound requires such, but I think it'd be a mistake to assume all companies know this. I just got done formulating my first product, and was f'n shocked at how LITTLE the raw material suppliers/labs know. Needless to say, I didn't use them, and elected to have my formula done/distributed by someone who's been in the business for nearly 20 years...

Assumptions = big mistake in life, but especially so in the supplement biz. Nobody wants to see anyone get hurt. Unfortunately, even the best of intentions can't prevent a tragedy from occurring.

Having said that, I've heard nothing of the sort in this instance - and hope it stays that way...
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Agreed wholeheartedly. I don't think DS is a company that would do that. Now their source? That may be a different story. I love craze and feel great while dosing it. I don't feel stimmed out, nor do I feel like I'm on anything illegal.
 
Hypothetically a chinese manufacturer could spike a powder with a small amount of a drug that would offer similar effects.

For example they buy a testosterone boosting powder and if there were trace (yet effective enough to deliver a result) amounts of erectile dysfunction drugs in there it leaves the company very happy with their purchase because it is obviously so potent.

Many cases of ED and weight loss drugs found in products over the years.
 
bdcc said:
Hypothetically a chinese manufacturer could spike a powder with a small amount of a drug that would offer similar effects.

For example they buy a testosterone boosting powder and if there were trace (yet effective enough to deliver a result) amounts of erectile dysfunction drugs in there it leaves the company very happy with their purchase because it is obviously so potent.

Many cases of ED and weight loss drugs found in products over the years.
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Ok got it, so manufacturers actually know at least something about sups and
their formulation
 
jwa254 said:
or Molly, but yeah. Are people believing MDMA is in Craze? or is it just the amphetamine aspect that people believe Craze contains? Sorry, I haven't really been keeping up. I could see the belief for an amphetamine being in Craze as Adderall is a combo of dextroamphetamine/amphetamine and that provides some insane focus.
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No, it does not contain MDMA. Nor does it contain amphetamine (d-amphetamine or l-amphetamine). I've taken the latter and can tell you that its effects are completely different. Actually, I prefer the effects of craze to those of adderall.



AutoKal47 said:
One thing I have hard time understanding: why the manufacturer would purposely spike the raw material?
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This would give the purchaser (supplement company) the false assumption that their raws are superior quality to those of its competitors. For instance, if it is an herbal extract, stating that their "extraction process" is top secret and better than anyone else's.
 
996ttelise said:
Erowid and legalhighs are two others with some really sharp chemist. A couple if them disappeared over the last couple of years. I think their MDMA labs got busted.
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Those aren't really comparable. The bluelight.ru ADD (advanced drug discussion) forum is great though. The guy who revealed the SlimXtreme drug on bluelight works for a big pharma company.
 
quigs said:
No, it does not contain MDMA. Nor does it contain amphetamine (d-amphetamine or l-amphetamine). I've taken the latter and can tell you that its effects are completely different. Actually, I prefer the effects of craze to those of adderall.
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Just to clear it up I wasn't saying it contained MDMA. I was saying I thought it was bizarre that anyone would think that. For the amphetamine statement, I was just noting that assumption made more sense than the MDMA by making a comparison between adderall focus to Craze (which like you, I prefer Craze). I love Craze and have another tub arriving tomorrow. I've dosed it with Choline Citrate for some excellent results.
 
AutoKal47 said:
One thing I have hard time understanding: why the manufacturer would purposely spike the raw material?
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the answer to that question is so obvious i cant imagine why it alludes you

the answer is - to sell more raw material and make more money!!!

that is why the chinese have been spiking herbs with erectile drug analogs for years. Because US companies think the herbs work and they buy a crapload and the raw material supplier gets rich
 
jwa254 said:
or Molly, but yeah. Are people believing MDMA is in Craze? or is it just the amphetamine aspect that people believe Craze contains? Sorry, I haven't really been keeping up. I could see the belief for an amphetamine being in Craze as Adderall is a combo of dextroamphetamine/amphetamine and that provides some insane focus.
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I don't think anyone us suggesting that, but Pat I believe said something about PEAs showing up in mass spec. PEA I believe causes euphoria feeling in MDMA and other drugs. Is it possible they threw some kind if mild MAO Inhibitor in there so PEA could really cross BBB and be a little fun?
 
smt1 said:
I wouldn't say causes is the right word, but I get what you mean. The structure of PEA is very similar to Dopamine and (nor)Epinephrine:

Invalid Link Removed
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Haha, yeah I was thinking cause was a bad choice of words when I typed. Stuck with it though as a result og being lazy and mind not working well. PEA is partially responsible for euphoric feeling and I believe acts like amphetamines in realeasing dopamine an norapinephrine. Anyway, are there any mild MAOB inhibitors that could be thrown in to circumvent first pass metabolism. What about something like piperine. Anything in Craze that could permit higher concentrations off PEA to cross BBB. I have no idea, but am curious since the effect people describe could fit a PEA profile.
 
I've found that taking two caps of Glycobol just before Craze intensifies the effects (probably due to the na-r-ala).

What about taking Hordenine with Craze; it acts as a mild MAO inhibitor I believe.
 
996ttelise said:
I don't think anyone us suggesting that, but Pat I believe said something about PEAs showing up in mass spec. PEA I believe causes euphoria feeling in MDMA and other drugs. Is it possible they threw some kind if mild MAO Inhibitor in there so PEA could really cross BBB and be a little fun?
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the euphoria from MDMA is thought to be mediated through serotonin and dopamine. other speed type drugs manifest their pleasure through dopamine and norepinephrine primarily

PEA is an endogenous neurortransmitter but its not something that has ever been suggested to play a role in the psychotropic effects of drugs of abuse

there have been PEA products sold with MAO inhibitors and the feeling you get from that are very transient and not very pleasant IMO. It does not jibe with the reported effects of Craze
 
996ttelise said:
PEA is partially responsible for euphoric feeling and I believe acts like amphetamines in realeasing dopamine an norapinephrine. .
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you think its partly responsible for the euphoric feeling from other drugs? where did you read that?
 
Patrick Arnold said:
the answer to that question is so obvious i cant imagine why it alludes you

the answer is - to sell more raw material and make more money!!!

that is why the chinese have been spiking herbs with erectile drug analogs for years. Because US companies think the herbs work and they buy a crapload and the raw material supplier gets rich
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No i get it, seems odd that the raw material don't get checked before going into
such big production, and other things like how the manufacturers continue to stay in business
once they get busted doing something like this? But really my knowledge in this field is zero,
I get the point, there are several way to do so, make profit and get away with it..

As for the euphoric effect of craze, that's weird I've *never* experienced euphoric feeling
with craze, after a pretty long period of use, if I had to summarize the main effect
(and why I get such good workouts with it) is: I just can't be distracted from my session.
I actually have to set up a clock when working out because I lose track of time, but no euphoric feeling whatsoever.
 
AutoKal47 said:
As for the euphoric effect of craze, that's weird I've *never* experienced euphoric feeling
with craze, after a pretty long period of use, if I had to summarize the main effect
(and why I get such good workouts with it) is: I just can't be distracted from my session.
I actually have to set up a clock when working out because I lose track of time, but no euphoric feeling whatsoever.
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I've gone through a few tubs of it and not once have I experienced any "euphoria" either. All I get from it is an increased focus on my workouts.
 
AutoKal47 said:
No i get it, seems odd that the raw material don't get checked before going into
such big production, and other things like how the manufacturers continue to stay in business
once they get busted doing something like this? But really my knowledge in this field is zero,
I get the point, there are several way to do so, make profit and get away with it..

As for the euphoric effect of craze, that's weird I've *never* experienced euphoric feeling
with craze, after a pretty long period of use, if I had to summarize the main effect
(and why I get such good workouts with it) is: I just can't be distracted from my session.
I actually have to set up a clock when working out because I lose track of time, but no euphoric feeling whatsoever.
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This could be your Jesus like genetics coming into play LOL...
 
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