Do you feel the same on 250mg Test compared to 500mg?

[Stanfoo]

I read a post saying upping your Test won't make you feel any different when it's already high, and that you won't feel any different with 1000ng/dl vs 3000ng/dl. Is this true?

Has anyone been on 250mg and 500mg and actually noticed feeling better on the higher dose? When I say "feel" I mean the mental benefits of high T, better well being, higher libido, etc.

 

[christ83189]

I read a post saying upping your Test won't make you feel any different when it's already high, and that you won't feel any different with 1000ng/dl vs 3000ng/dl. Is this true?

Has anyone been on 250mg and 500mg and actually noticed feeling better on the higher dose? When I say "feel" I mean the mental benefits of high T, better well being, higher libido, etc.

I felt way better on 600 than 200 but thats just me

 

[swimfan65]

Ummm, yes there is a difference. Three stages that go like this...eh, wow I feel good, sh1r I have boobs.

 

[Country]

Yes ull notice a difference from 250 to 500 what are your goals

 

[bradleyt1]

I would say yes you would feel better on the 500mg compared to the 250 as long as estrogen and dht don’t get to out of whack

 

[AnabolicGuru]

600mg felt no different for me than 150mg. It depends on the person I guess. Personally, I’ll probably never go above 150-300mg again.

 

[edsd]

To feel as manly as possible. I want that lust for life and high sex drive. With my naturally low T levels I have neither. Gains are just a bonus.

I didn’t feel different at 250 vs 500. Either way I made gains and experienced positive life improvements like sex drive and well being/drive.

There are other things other than test that can help with lust for life. OTC vitamins like D3 or zinc/mag. Honestly I can say just direct sunlight, being outside improves my mood/mental well being like no other.

 

[bad rad]

600mg felt no different for me than 150mg. It depends on the person I guess. Personally, I’ll probably never go above 150-300mg again.

I'm similar. The gains and feel are all about the same from 300+. Below that I get incremental increases in libido, strength, and well being.

 

[YoungThor]

I didn’t feel different at 250 vs 500. Either way I made gains and experienced positive life improvements like sex drive and well being/drive.

There are other things other than test that can help with lust for life. OTC vitamins like D3 or zinc/mag. Honestly I can say just direct sunlight, being outside improves my mood/mental well being like no other.

I agree, it’s not always about testosterone. You could have very high testosterone but also suffer from depression. As a result you may have no lust for life and no libido in spite of the fact that your testosterone is high. But hopefully in the OP’s case testosterone fixes his issues.

Also, the sunlight statement is very true. We’re animals that are meant to be in the sun for the majority of the day, day after day.

 

[Bintherduntht]

There is absolutely a noticeable difference from 250-500.

More libido, pumps, mass and strength etc.

 

[Davidelsons]

im 45 so..that may make a difference..

I cannot tell the difference between 200 and 500 or 1000.... everybody metabolizes steroids differently... I have a very high metabolism which I think makes a big difference...

I will say that when I first started taking testosterone for trt I felt better... and I think when you increase your doses you may have a feeling of well-being or Euphoria but that will subside and right now I'm running a grand of testosterone a week and I feel exactly the same as if I was on 250... my strength isn't much more... but I can tell you I can eat like a horse ....I can't seem to put on weight and I'm cranking out the calories.... for me a high level of testosterone it certainly doing something to my metabolism...

Body types and play a part I'm an ectomorph....I have to eat a substantial Surplus to get any growth.

 

[Cgkone]

I like high test at first. But then it just makes me kinda tired .
I use it just to make the other drugs work better.
Now test prop at 500 mg is pretty intense.
But after week 5 I seem to just back off to 300ish No matter what.

 

[bradleyt1]

I like high test at first. But then it just makes me kinda tired .
I use it just to make the other drugs work better.
Now test prop at 500 mg is pretty intense.
But after week 5 I seem to just back off to 300ish No matter what.

Interesting why do you think that is that you start to feel tired? I feel like that has happened to me but I can’t come up with a reasoning behind it. Maybe too much estrogen

 

[Cgkone]

Interesting why do you think that is that you start to feel tired? I feel like that has happened to me but I can’t come up with a reasoning behind it. Maybe too much estrogen

Could be

 

[THOR 70]

Could be

No difference between 250 and a gram for me. I never do high anymore due to lethargy and sides, probably due to estrogen etc. I also run shorter cycles like 8 weeks cause the feel good wears off and I feel recovery is better

 

[Alistair_]

I felt way better on 600 than 200 but thats just me

Same here

 

[Davidelsons]

When's the last time you checked your estradiol E2? You take an AI?

 

[Matthersby]

I like high test at first. But then it just makes me kinda tired .
I use it just to make the other drugs work better.
Now test prop at 500 mg is pretty intense.
But after week 5 I seem to just back off to 300ish No matter what.

Pretty much this here ^
I don’t notice much more nor care to run it over 300. But some love high test. I like drugs that do more for me, NPP, Trest, etc. and lower test dose with these brings far less sides for me...

 

[edsd]

Another thing to consider is the placebo affect. Not doubting anyone and everyone’s body handles things different, for me i get no sides from Tren other then increased libido and sex drive. Just saying some people might be more inclined to jack up the test numbers based off that placebo feeling.

 

[mattwv]

I feel better on 250 than I do 500. I have more energy on 250, better sense of well being etc. I also feel like I need less sleep on 250 vs 500. On 500 I am more likely to wake up lethargic. That is just my personal experience. I also control e2 with armidex so I know its not an e2 issue.

 

[fueledpassion]

I read a post saying upping your Test won't make you feel any different when it's already high, and that you won't feel any different with 1000ng/dl vs 3000ng/dl. Is this true?

Has anyone been on 250mg and 500mg and actually noticed feeling better on the higher dose? When I say "feel" I mean the mental benefits of high T, better well being, higher libido, etc.

Assuming you have all the other staples and hormones in check (which in highly unlikely), 600mg will all-around be a better "feeling". Better pumps. Better sex drive (actually too much sometimes). Better strength. Better growth. Better mood.

At some point (for most), diminishing returns sets in around the 600-800mg/wk mark, depending on the size of the body, genetics and ester used in regard to mood and well-being. For growth, it might be linear. For strength, it also is pretty linear up to a certain point. I see no need in anyone running greater than a gram of it in any case.

There are always exceptions - the human genome is profoundly & frustratingly diverse

Little known trick is if you combine Masteron @ 1:1 dose with your Test, around 200-300mg/wk of each, it will feel like you doubled your Test dose.

 

[christ83189]

Assuming you have all the other staples and hormones in check (which in highly unlikely), 600mg will all-around be a better "feeling". Better pumps. Better sex drive (actually too much sometimes). Better strength. Better growth. Better mood.

At some point (for most), diminishing returns sets in around the 600-800mg/wk mark, depending on the size of the body, genetics and ester used in regard to mood and well-being. For growth, it might be linear. For strength, it also is pretty linear up to a certain point. I see no need in anyone running greater than a gram of it in any case.

There are always exceptions - the human genome is profoundly & frustratingly diverse

Little known trick is if you combine Masteron @ 1:1 dose with your Test, around 200-300mg/wk of each, it will feel like you doubled your Test dose.

What if you run mast 1:1 at 500 each? Lol i haven't gotten to try all these cool injectables. When i found my source and decided to jump in, which is around the same time i got on on trt, i also got hit with some pretty heavy legal stuff so i gotta take it easy and lay low for a bit but first chance i get im jumpin in head first

 

[christ83189]

Assuming you have all the other staples and hormones in check (which in highly unlikely), 600mg will all-around be a better "feeling". Better pumps. Better sex drive (actually too much sometimes). Better strength. Better growth. Better mood.

At some point (for most), diminishing returns sets in around the 600-800mg/wk mark, depending on the size of the body, genetics and ester used in regard to mood and well-being. For growth, it might be linear. For strength, it also is pretty linear up to a certain point. I see no need in anyone running greater than a gram of it in any case.

There are always exceptions - the human genome is profoundly & frustratingly diverse

Little known trick is if you combine Masteron @ 1:1 dose with your Test, around 200-300mg/wk of each, it will feel like you doubled your Test dose.

Good to see you back btw

 

[Matthersby]

Good to see you back btw

I second that.

 

[fueledpassion]

I can’t promise the same activity as I once did however I will strive to increase the quality of my posts, aiming to provide an opportunity for rich discussion.

With that, I ask “to what end” does the OP ask this question?

It would seem that if one were solely trying to land on an optimal mood, perhaps to combat depression or anxiety - that is not a good enough reason to take all the risks that come with running 500mg/wk. I’m not being specific either - any supraphysiological dose seems inappropriate for that purpose.

For mood enhancement, I would stay at TRT doses and delve elsewhere if I were to implement long term strategies. A perpetual 500mg dose is not ideal. Imagine a few years later that you can’t practically run that dose (for whatever slew of reasons there are) long after you reset all of your sex & adrenal hormone baselines to a much higher level.

250mg/wk could send you into depression after that. This is one very simple reason I do not care to run Tren - the come down lasts for 3-4 months sometimes.

...It’s entirely possible that the OP’s curiosity was piqued and it has nothing to do with his plans. I :33: too much.

 

[fueledpassion]

What if you run mast 1:1 at 500 each? Lol i haven't gotten to try all these cool injectables. When i found my source and decided to jump in, which is around the same time i got on on trt, i also got hit with some pretty heavy legal stuff so i gotta take it easy and lay low for a bit but first chance i get im jumpin in head first

Other than hair falling out, excessive aggression & insane sex drive.... I dunno.

 

[christ83189]

Other than hair falling out, excessive aggression & insane sex drive.... I dunno.

500/500 it is! Who needs hair anyways lol jk

 

[Matthersby]

I can’t promise the same activity as I once did however I will strive to increase the quality of my posts, aiming to provide an opportunity for rich discussion.

With that, I ask “to what end” does the OP ask this question?

It would seem that if one were solely trying to land on an optimal mood, perhaps to combat depression or anxiety - that is not a good enough reason to take all the risks that come with running 500mg/wk. I’m not being specific either - any supraphysiological dose seems inappropriate for that purpose.

For mood enhancement, I would stay at TRT doses and delve elsewhere if I were to implement long term strategies. A perpetual 500mg dose is not ideal. Imagine a few years later that you can’t practically run that dose (for whatever slew of reasons there are) long after you reset all of your sex & adrenal hormone baselines to a much higher level.

250mg/wk could send you into depression after that. This is one very simple reason I do not care to run Tren - the come down lasts for 3-4 months sometimes.

...It’s entirely possible that the OP’s curiosity was piqued and it has nothing to do with his plans. I :33: too much.

I would say, this makes total sense.

When we are talking “feel” Dbol, LOW Trest, and 250 TOPS Test, and I feel amazing.

But what if what he wants to feel is aggression and endless energy? High Test does not do this for some of us and some it does. I don’t like aggression unless it’s controlled and only comes out in the gym. I upped a 19-nor dose recently and almost smashed a guys window out with my pistol simply bc he wouldn’t slow down for me in the grocery store crosswalk.

I don’t want to feel that again.

 

[Whisky]

Assuming you have all the other staples and hormones in check (which in highly unlikely), 600mg will all-around be a better "feeling". Better pumps. Better sex drive (actually too much sometimes). Better strength. Better growth. Better mood.

At some point (for most), diminishing returns sets in around the 600-800mg/wk mark, depending on the size of the body, genetics and ester used in regard to mood and well-being. For growth, it might be linear. For strength, it also is pretty linear up to a certain point. I see no need in anyone running greater than a gram of it in any case.

There are always exceptions - the human genome is profoundly & frustratingly diverse

Little known trick is if you combine Masteron @ 1:1 dose with your Test, around 200-300mg/wk of each, it will feel like you doubled your Test dose.

I third the good to have you back comment btw

Interesting you mention 600mg above as I was wondering what the difference between 500 and 600 was on a test e run.

I ask simply as I have enough test e for 18 weeks at 500 or 15 weeks at 600. Obviously I’m not going to run for 18 weeks so would have some left over. In my head I’d like to use it all as next time I might want to change from test e and even though it’s cheap I don’t like waste lol

It would be my first pin cycle (ran td trest/epistane and all the Andros previous) and I’d be looking for maximum gains.

Using tbol kicker and winny finisher as well.

Any negative to doing 600? I do get the minimum effective dose point which probably errs me to just doing 14 weeks at 500 but if no real negatives to 600 for 15 weeks then.....

Don’t want to totally hijack the post but figured it’s broadly in line with op’s question

 

[fueledpassion]

I third the good to have you back comment btw

Interesting you mention 600mg above as I was wondering what the difference between 500 and 600 was on a test e run.

I ask simply as I have enough test e for 18 weeks at 500 or 15 weeks at 600. Obviously I’m not going to run for 18 weeks so would have some left over. In my head I’d like to use it all as next time I might want to change from test e and even though it’s cheap I don’t like waste lol

It would be my first pin cycle (ran td trest/epistane and all the Andros previous) and I’d be looking for maximum gains.

Using tbol kicker and winny finisher as well.

Any negative to doing 600? I do get the minimum effective dose point which probably errs me to just doing 14 weeks at 500 but if no real negatives to 600 for 15 weeks then.....

Don’t want to totally hijack the post but figured it’s broadly in line with op’s question

As with anything, if you want to walk away from the experience with some sort of objective summary, create a controlled environment by starting off low and tapering up. Being your first cycle, you could start at 300-400mg/wk and end up at 750+mg/wk by the end of it.

That way you know what each dose range actually does and it also keeps your body adjusting upward in terms of mood, growth, etc.

For example,

Weeks 1-5 @ 400mg
Weeks 6-10 @ 600mg
Weeks 11-15 @ 750mg

You’ll pretty much use all that you have...
I bet you also enjoy the cycle more as you progress and it’d be hard NOT to gain any weight with such a progressive upward climb. Enanthate ester takes about 4 weeks to settle the half life so you get one week of plateau for each dose. Just 3 out of 15 weeks your serum T will not be climbing. This results in a very gradual ascension that is quite enjoyable towards the end.

Once at the end, two weeks prior to finishing, start the Clomid. At 25mg/day, the dose will not cause the emotional side effects because your T levels will be 3000+.

You’ll have as much T coursing through your veins as the “men of renown” did 3000-4000 years ago.

Anyways, you can blast the HCG during the two week clearing period and continue Clomid therapy for an additional 4 weeks after ceasing the injections.

Better also have Aromasin or at least Arimidex for the entire duration.

 

[Whisky]

As with anything, if you want to walk away from the experience with some sort of objective summary, create a controlled environment by starting off low and tapering up. Being your first cycle, you could start at 300-400mg/wk and end up at 750+mg/wk by the end of it.

That way you know what each dose range actually does and it also keeps your body adjusting upward in terms of mood, growth, etc.

For example,

Weeks 1-5 @ 400mg
Weeks 6-10 @ 600mg
Weeks 11-15 @ 750mg

You’ll pretty much use all that you have...
I bet you also enjoy the cycle more as you progress and it’d be hard NOT to gain any weight with such a progressive upward climb. Enanthate ester takes about 4 weeks to settle the half life so you get one week of plateau for each dose. Just 3 out of 15 weeks your serum T will not be climbing. This results in a very gradual ascension that is quite enjoyable towards the end.

Once at the end, two weeks prior to finishing, start the Clomid. At 25mg/day, the dose will not cause the emotional side effects because your T levels will be 3000+.

You’ll have as much T coursing through your veins as the “men of renown” did 3000-4000 years ago.

Anyways, you can blast the HCG during the two week clearing period and continue Clomid therapy for an additional 4 weeks after ceasing the injections.

Better also have Aromasin or at least Arimidex for the entire duration.

Awesome, that’s a much better idea.....thanks

I do have arimidex, hcg, aromisin and caber already on hand alongside both nolva and clomid.

Was planning on using both Adex and hcg through the cycle tbh

 

[fueledpassion]

Awesome, that’s a much better idea.....thanks

I do have arimidex, hcg, aromisin and caber already on hand alongside both nolva and clomid.

Was planning on using both Adex and hcg through the cycle tbh

Thats fine too and probably will lead to less shutdown and/or less swings in hormones.

There are at least 2 ways to skin this particular cat.

 

[Matthersby]

As with anything, if you want to walk away from the experience with some sort of objective summary, create a controlled environment by starting off low and tapering up. Being your first cycle, you could start at 300-400mg/wk and end up at 750+mg/wk by the end of it.

That way you know what each dose range actually does and it also keeps your body adjusting upward in terms of mood, growth, etc.

For example,

Weeks 1-5 @ 400mg
Weeks 6-10 @ 600mg
Weeks 11-15 @ 750mg

You’ll pretty much use all that you have...
I bet you also enjoy the cycle more as you progress and it’d be hard NOT to gain any weight with such a progressive upward climb. Enanthate ester takes about 4 weeks to settle the half life so you get one week of plateau for each dose. Just 3 out of 15 weeks your serum T will not be climbing. This results in a very gradual ascension that is quite enjoyable towards the end.

Once at the end, two weeks prior to finishing, start the Clomid. At 25mg/day, the dose will not cause the emotional side effects because your T levels will be 3000+.

You’ll have as much T coursing through your veins as the “men of renown” did 3000-4000 years ago.

Anyways, you can blast the HCG during the two week clearing period and continue Clomid therapy for an additional 4 weeks after ceasing the injections.

Better also have Aromasin or at least Arimidex for the entire duration.

I actually spent over a week reading and rereading a thread that FP and 5 or so other really intelligent and experienced guys were heavily involved in debating 2 things: An injectable replacement for Tren (Dienolone) and why Trest doesn’t respond to AI. One of the most informative threads I’ve ever read. Fueled was advocating for tapering up dosage with Dienolone which he did from 200-800 I believe. I was annoyed at only 600 with the 19-nor sides that presented. But most importantly, I learned exactly where my sweet spot is with that drug is and what I liked/disliked at each adjustment. Doing this in a controlled environment showed me what I kind of already knew. I will always prefer to run aas on the very low end of dosage and for longer. Have almost never not come to this conclusion.

Run Trest Ace at 300/week and you’ll be dying to get off it in 6-8 weeks tops. Run it at 125/week and you’ll be thrilled watching your body change for the next 5 months. With labs on point too. Obviously this applies to those who can cruise only.

It’s always cool to adjust dose and find that point of diminishing returns. For some of us, 200mg Test doesn’t do a whole lot less than 800. 10mg of Superdrol I can comfortably run for 35 days with fantastic results. 20-30 and I’m quitting by day 23. Rather get the most I can as comfortably as possible...

 

[Cgkone]

Assuming you have all the other staples and hormones in check (which in highly unlikely), 600mg will all-around be a better "feeling". Better pumps. Better sex drive (actually too much sometimes). Better strength. Better growth. Better mood.

At some point (for most), diminishing returns sets in around the 600-800mg/wk mark, depending on the size of the body, genetics and ester used in regard to mood and well-being. For growth, it might be linear. For strength, it also is pretty linear up to a certain point. I see no need in anyone running greater than a gram of it in any case.

There are always exceptions - the human genome is profoundly & frustratingly diverse

Little known trick is if you combine Masteron @ 1:1 dose with your Test, around 200-300mg/wk of each, it will feel like you doubled your Test dose.

On masterone now. 125 mg eod has me happy horny hungry hard

 

[Cgkone]

Good to see you back btw

3rd that. Low dose GH into injured area save my life. My bench will be back at 400 in 3-5 months.....thanks

 

[Matthersby]

3rd that. Low dose GH into injured area save my life. My bench will be back at 400 in 3-5 months.....thanks

Damn. I hit 350 once on a strength cycle but I’m a gangly 6’3

 

[christ83189]

3rd that. Low dose GH into injured area save my life. My bench will be back at 400 in 3-5 months.....thanks

I really want to hit 405. Hoping it happens soon. Gonna give it a while before i max again. Probably gonna max when im almost out of this s4 and see what happens

 

[Cgkone]

Damn. I hit 350 once on a strength cycle but I’m a gangly 6’3

I'm 6'2", use to be 6'3".
I've hit 430 in peak phases several times.
But I'm 245. I was 265+ when I've hit 430.
Long arms suck

 

[Cgkone]

I really want to hit 405. Hoping it happens soon. Gonna give it a while before i max again. Probably gonna max when im almost out of this s4 and see what happens

I've been being carefully not to go too fast.
I hit 315 xs then 365 x1 and it felt cool.
But I just stopped and saved it.
Ill do some higher reps next workout, deload and then mess around with low 300s.
Just get scared that something will go wrong. I don't want to be hurt again .
I'm still not squating because it tweaks my shoulder. Might start high bar after another 4-6 weeks

 

[christ83189]

I'm 6'2", use to be 6'3".
I've hit 430 in peak phases several times.
But I'm 245. I was 265+ when I've hit 430.
Long arms suck

Yeah im 6'2" as well with long arms. Hit 345 with some in the tank recently so the next time i max im gonna line up a spotter and really go for a true 1rm and see what i got. Id be really happy to hit 405 but think its probably gonna be a few more months of work

 

[christ83189]

I've been being carefully not to go too fast.
I hit 315 xs then 365 x1 and it felt cool.
But I just stopped and saved it.
Ill do some higher reps next workout, deload and then mess around with low 300s.
Just get scared that something will go wrong. I don't want to be hurt again .
I'm still not squating because it tweaks my shoulder. Might start high bar after another 4-6 weeks

High bar just feels weird to me lol ive been using it a little more often though just to keep it in the arsenal

 

[Cgkone]

Yeah im 6'2" as well with long arms. Hit 345 with some in the tank recently so the next time i max im gonna line up a spotter and really go for a true 1rm and see what i got. Id be really happy to hit 405 but think its probably gonna be a few more months of work

Do it!!

 

[Matthersby]

I’ve always trained volume and never for strength (bodybuilding) but I’ve always secretly wanted numbers like this. I may incorporate some strength training durning my next 10 month bulk. It’s time!

 

[bradleyt1]

I would say, this makes total sense.

When we are talking “feel” Dbol, LOW Trest, and 250 TOPS Test, and I feel amazing.

But what if what he wants to feel is aggression and endless energy? High Test does not do this for some of us and some it does. I don’t like aggression unless it’s controlled and only comes out in the gym. I upped a 19-nor dose recently and almost smashed a guys window out with my pistol simply bc he wouldn’t slow down for me in the grocery store crosswalk.

I don’t want to feel that again.

Yeah bro likenwith test I feel like I have a sense of calm and focus that I can use in the gym and feel great where as some other compound can start making me feel like a moody bitch and that’s a scary thought not being able to control an outburst or something like that you know.

 

[fueledpassion]

Personally, I’ve found my strongest to also be when I had my greatest stamina ever too.

At my strongest, I was 162lbs, benching 225 X 17 and squatting 315 X 16. Don’t remember the exact max lifts but they were roughly around 340 & 440. Had I had acclamated myself to the heavier weights, I might could have done 3-5% more.

Point is, bodybuilding style training can get you as strong as ever as long as you are adding weights, reps, TUT or creating a more difficult lever with the weight.

 

[fueledpassion]

Personally, I’ve found my strongest to also be when I had my greatest stamina ever too.

At my strongest, I was 162lbs, benching 225 X 17 and squatting 315 X 16. Don’t remember the exact max lifts but they were roughly around 340 & 440. Had I had acclamated myself to the heavier weights, I might could have done 3-5% more.

Point is, bodybuilding style training can get you as strong as ever as long as you are adding weights, reps, TUT or creating a more difficult lever with the weight.

 

[Bintherduntht]

I don't see how 500mg could ever yield less gains, libido etc. Than 250

 

[Matthersby]

I don't see how 500mg could ever yield less gains, libido etc. Than 250

There’s some science guys on here that could probably answer this for us, (shbg/and possibly other factors) but for some reason, I start getting lethargic on more than 400/week of test. And also, Trest, the libido-king steroid, starts actually tanking my libido at higher than 150/week. These things are complicated af. Tren, like most steroids cause testicular atrophy, yet Dienolone, considered very similar, actually is thought to reverse atrophy. I don’t even try to understand all the complicated chemistry when practical application seems to be contradictory at times..

 

[swimfan65]

Personally, I’ve found my strongest to also be when I had my greatest stamina ever too.

At my strongest, I was 162lbs, benching 225 X 17 and squatting 315 X 16. Don’t remember the exact max lifts but they were roughly around 340 & 440. Had I had acclamated myself to the heavier weights, I might could have done 3-5% more.

Point is, bodybuilding style training can get you as strong as ever as long as you are adding weights, reps, TUT or creating a more difficult lever with the weight.

Those numbers are nuts for 160. You would win just about any PL compition at that weight. That is crazy strong. I only train for strength. Not a bodybuilder, but respect the hell out of them. Heck, I got mad respect for anyone killing it in the gym. Good work my friend.

 

[fueledpassion]

There’s some science guys on here that could probably answer this for us, (shbg/and possibly other factors) but for some reason, I start getting lethargic on more than 400/week of test. And also, Trest, the libido-king steroid, starts actually tanking my libido at higher than 150/week. These things are complicated af. Tren, like most steroids cause testicular atrophy, yet Dienolone, considered very similar, actually is thought to reverse atrophy. I don’t even try to understand all the complicated chemistry when practical application seems to be contradictory at times..

It's a good point to make. The Dienolone effect sure is a strange one but I experience this same thing as if I've been taking a moderate dose of Clomid.

I think many times the reason more ends up being too much is because our system can't channel these hormones and their feedback loops in the most ideal way. 250mg is manageable w/o excessive supplementation of other hormones/drugs. 500mg is a different story.

Take GH for example - if you take 4-8iu's of GH per day, eventually you start getting large around the waistline because your insulin sensitivity is being crushed. However, take that same dose with T4 & Lantus and you'll experience massive gains in muscle growth w/ no issues whatsoever in fat gain or lethargy or whatever sides come with insulin resistance.

This is why I carefully said "Assuming you have all the other staples and hormones in check (which in highly unlikely), 600mg will all-around be a better "feeling". Better pumps. Better sex drive (actually too much sometimes). Better strength. Better growth. Better mood"

Can I also say that this is precisely one of two main reasons why I recommend tapering up in the dosing scheme...If you gradually increase, you'll likely find that you don't have crazy swings in mood, estrogen, gyno, sex drive, etc. It's predictable because your body deals with it in a gradual manner and it doesn't require you to do anything rash regarding estrogen control.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't or couldn't just do the traditional method of steady state dosing - you can and it works for many people just fine. I've personally found tapering up to be more enjoyable though because I don't get the unwanted shift in mood, estrogen and sex drive like I would with a sudden large dose of aromatizing steroids and the gains come in a more linear fashion and for longer periods of time.