DAILY GRIND. New studies, research, ingredient discussion.

brundel

brundel

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This thread is a place for us to post new research, studies and data regarding our field.
Supplements
Ingredients
Muscle growth
Fat loss
performance enhancement
ETC
 
brundel

brundel

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There has been some debate regarding protein sources and lots of vegetarians and vegans will tell you plant based proteins are as good for building muscle as animal proteins but I disagree.
This study seems to confirm that over time there is a negative correlation with plant based diets/proteins and skeletal muscle mass. I would love to hear opinions from both sides.

vegetarianism can result in lower muscle mass

 
nostrum420

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There has been some debate regarding protein sources and lots of vegetarians and vegans will tell you plant based proteins are as good for building muscle as animal proteins but I disagree.
This study seems to confirm that over time there is a negative correlation with plant based diets/proteins and skeletal muscle mass. I would love to hear opinions from both sides.

vegetarianism can result in lower muscle mass

I've been meaning to see if I can compare the amino acid sequences of veg. protein to that of whey. Our bodies don't break down protein all the way to individual amino acids. So, if we compare the sequences and structures of the proteins we may be able to find better plant based alternatives.

I do think vegetarians or in this case vegans should have some kind of protein supplement but many vegans are too crunchy granola for that.

Last but not least, I've heard they're working on a way to synthesize milk using genetically modified yeast. So, perhaps if no cow nipples are squeezed in the production process they'll come around? Compromise? I dunno, I just thought it was interesting.
 
ValiantThor08

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There has been some debate regarding protein sources and lots of vegetarians and vegans will tell you plant based proteins are as good for building muscle as animal proteins but I disagree.
This study seems to confirm that over time there is a negative correlation with plant based diets/proteins and skeletal muscle mass. I would love to hear opinions from both sides.

vegetarianism can result in lower muscle mass

I happen to agree with this, especially since most plants that have protein also have fiber, and that in and of itself will inhibit protein absorption to an extent.
 
nostrum420

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I happen to agree with this, especially since most plants that have protein also have fiber, and that in and of itself will inhibit protein absorption to an extent.
Do you think this could be overcome with a vegan protein powder, sans fiber?
 
ValiantThor08

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Do you think this could be overcome with a vegan protein powder, sans fiber?
To an extent. Because the flesh of animals, and especially pork and beef is similar to our muscle, I believe those will always be the optimal protein for our flesh. We are what we eat is the truth.
 
3clipseGT

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I've been meaning to see if I can compare the amino acid sequences of veg. protein to that of whey. Our bodies don't break down protein all the way to individual amino acids. So, if we compare the sequences and structures of the proteins we may be able to find better plant based alternatives.

I do think vegetarians or in this case vegans should have some kind of protein supplement but many vegans are too crunchy granola for that.

Last but not least, I've heard they're working on a way to synthesize milk using genetically modified yeast. So, perhaps if no cow nipples are squeezed in the production process they'll come around? Compromise? I dunno, I just thought it was interesting.
Crunchy granola!! That was great!
 
love2liftkat

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I definitely think vegans/vegetarians have to work much harder to maintain and/or gain muscle...but it is possible. I personally like meat way too much! Lol
 
djbombsquad

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I definitely think vegans/vegetarians have to work much harder to maintain and/or gain muscle...but it is possible. I personally like meat way too much! Lol
Buckweed or duckweed I cannot think of the name but I believe that is the name and is a complete protein.
 
nostrum420

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I may be biased but I found this less than compelling. Most of the paper is about making analogues (esters and ethers) of Epicatechin and (+)(-)Epicatechin seems to be a better starting material than (-)(-)Epicatechin.

The little bit of comparative data between the two base isomers doesn't show particularly huge differences in effect. Also, the article itself mentions the well studied effects of (-)(-)Epicatechin.
 
ItalOne

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I definitely think vegans/vegetarians have to work much harder to maintain and/or gain muscle...but it is possible. I personally like meat way too much! Lol
I have not eaten animal meat in 8 years! I was vegan for 7 years, went back to vegetarian a year ago. Yeah it’s definitely more difficult to juggle macros and make gains.
 
brundel

brundel

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I personally love epicatechin. Follidrone has been a daily staple for me for years now.
I think myostatin inhibitors work well but not as drastic as an anabolic steroid. I think we need to be working on natural things that ARE as strong as anabolic steroids. (maybe someone is) ;)
Nature has everything we need I think and we just need to be a bit more creative. My hope is we will have some legit natural anabolic steroids in the future.
 
brundel

brundel

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I’m guessing with time and technology with in the next 3-5 years .
I think you are right.
Unfortunately there are not many people looking for this sort of thing. It would be nice to see some more research in this field.
Unless there is money to be made studies won't be done.
 
brundel

brundel

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Geez! I was already the first one on this board to publicly propose Korean Mistletoe as being the next big anabolic ingredient before Vector was released.

I’m not going to sit here and spoon feed you everything!
Kme is pretty solid. We use 1g of 100:1. Its exceptionally strong.
I think the next big thing is sitting on my lab table right now.
Will be running in vivo trials this coming week.
 
TheVenom

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If a plant steroid as powerful as hormonal steroids are as powerful, will PCT be necessary at that point?
"Powerful" almost always goes hand-in-hand with "suppressive", so most likely. But there veing such a thing is also unlikely imo
 
brundel

brundel

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If a plant steroid as powerful as hormonal steroids are as powerful, will PCT be necessary at that point?
This is dependent on mechanism of action.
If it binds to androgen receptors, modulates estrogen etc then it will be suppressive.
If it acts via mtor, igf1 or follistatin etc. Then it won't be suppressive as it doesnt effect the hpta
 
djbombsquad

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I think you are right.
Unfortunately there are not many people looking for this sort of thing. It would be nice to see some more research in this field.
Unless there is money to be made studies won't be done.
Your spot on. Only if we did things not just for money . In my dreams
 
horizons

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ttortman78

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pretty much saying epi doesn’t do much
I love epicatechin. And some study telling me it doesn't work isn't going to convince me. 3 plus years of use vs some study. The map is not always the territory.
 

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