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crystal meth and juice...

mixedup said:
I second that it's like the children of alcholics who never take a drink because they fear their genetic disposition or the person who knows they have an addictive personality so steers clear of any type of drug. You still have to make the choice to take the drug even if you are predisposed to addiction if you never take the drug it doesn't matter
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My father's father owned a HUGE upper class bar in NYC.. Both his parents drank all day every day. His 2 brothers and sisters drink, all his cousins, basically the whole family.

My dad has never drank a full beer in his life. I got him to drink a half a beer with me on my 21st birthday, and he said that was the first sip of beer/alcohol he had, since he was a teenager.

It is definitely possible to make a choice. Saying you have no choice is a ****ing COP OUT.
 
Mars1107 said:
and to remind, if theoretically meth was legal, there wouldnt be dangerous meth labs. Its illegality just makes it more dangerous. And i dont think MORE people will become addicted to it if it were legal, theres really no scientific correlation you can bring up.

However, i can bring up many facts to support why making meth in particular legal, would be beneficial. Even though i dont codone the use of drugs:wave2:
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Totally wrong. Every time a drug was changed from an illegal status to a legal commercially produced status usage goes up significantly. Decriminalization of personal quantities does not show the same increase in use, however given what it takes to create meth (unlike growing weed) that would have no effect on safety
 
orangutan said:
if the drug fills a hole in your persona(or atleast enough to make u think it does), u will more than likely become addicted.
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you are totally out of your gourd. If you didn't have a hole in your persona to begin with, you wouldn't feel the need to take the risks of buying and using illegal substances to get a few minutes to hours of pleasure.... I can say that from experience, when I was young I did have those holes but I got married and had children and filled those holes with real life :) and the occasional beer :D
 
i wish i could shut this topic down because if u havnt kicked dope there is no point in responding

but that wasnt the topic anyway lol
 
orangutan said:
i wish i could shut this topic down because if u havnt kicked dope there is no point in responding

but that wasnt the topic anyway lol
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You're going to sit there and make assumptions that no one here has overcome addictions?

Crystal meth is a highly addicitive substance. Heroin does not hold some elite position. As a matter of fact nicotine addicts have less chance of recovery than heroin addicts.

A little humility would go a long way.
 
Crystal meth? What the **** is wrong with people??!!

Marijuana, yes, i blaze after a nice workout and it really chills me out and lets me eat as much as i want, but why would someone wanna take something that doesn't let you eat for 24 hours? And whatever piece of **** that decided to mix battery fluid and draino to make a substance that destroys life after life should and will burn in hell

You know that "harmless in moderation" saying? Yeah, you can throw that bullshit right out the window with meth. Try it once, you might be ok, try it twice i guarantee you'll be a slave. Meth is too strong for the human brain to handle, the addiction properties are very serious. It drains dopamine out of your body and even one time will do permanent brain damage on a certain level. And if you even know the type of people that tweak then you should really get new friends. They're going down a tough road, FAST.
 
I don't post here much but I'm not going to take the time and read whatevery one else said either. Do not **** WITH THAT STUFF! It'll lean you up alright muscle included you might as well throw all of your hard work out the door. Plus it had the potential of being very addictive not to mention dangerous as you don't know who made it and what they used to make it....
 
orangutan said:
i wish i could shut this topic down because if u havnt kicked dope there is no point in responding

but that wasnt the topic anyway lol
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I've been clean and sober for 6 years. I never kicked it, it was taken from me. If you are in recovery, you'll know exactly what I am talking about. I stand where I am because of personal choices, both before and after.

If you want an excuse to use recreational drugs, posting a question like this on a forum where people are trying to improve themselves is probably the wrong venue to get someone to co-sign your bullsh*t. Why don't you go down to a bar, and ask this question over and over again until some drunk tells you it's a good idea. Then you can lie to yourself and say the meth was highly recomended by a credible source for bodybuilding.

Besides, I often look at crackheads and meth users and admire their physics:)
 
Well yiu said that wasn't the reason for the topic .. but why did you ask about this?

Did you ask if it was a good idea because i've forgotten the main point?
 
player said:
I've been clean and sober for 6 years. I never kicked it, it was taken from me. If you are in recovery, you'll know exactly what I am talking about. I stand where I am because of personal choices, both before and after.
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Thank you sir!!!
 
in the original topic i asked if anyone ever used crystal meth and juice when working out...thats it. then all of a sudden im promoting it? lol.

totally not what i ment to happen and u can see the result when someone doesnt read all the post. i never suggested ANYTHING....
crystal is a terrible drug, just like alcohol...but just like alcohol and any other drug....its the personality that determines whether its recreational or addictive.

now for the record...when the topic got out of hand someone mentioned something about which drug was the worst to kick... i felt i had to chip in my two cents BECAUSE I WENT THREW IT. like i said before....opiate withdrawl is the worst thing u can possibly go through in life...hands down, period, no questions asked...no hesitation. nothing compares. NOTHING...

if u want to argue that point, please PM me. but do not tell me "dying of cancer is worst" ....because when youre dying of cancer u HAVE opiates to dull the pain
 
hardknock said:
What you have just typed is that you have smoked crack?
I've never seen an occassional crack smoker. I've seen some that claim they are but they are lying to themselves...
How can you occassionally smoke crack? So, only smoke it on holidays, twice a month or once a new yrs. Even if so, you are still an addict.
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Wow...ok let me clarify for the jackasses who take sh*t too literally. I have never done Meth, PCP, crack, ephedrine, ritalin, lexapro, prozac, prednisone, beta-blockers, Yaz, MAOI inhibitors...I can't go on because no one has done EVERY drug out there. I have, however, had many experiences with powder cocaine in my experimenting days. I guess that makes me and George W. addicts according to your philosophy. And since you've never met an occasional crack smoker, I have to invite you to West Belleville/East St. Louis because you can walk down basically any block and meet about 10 of them. I'm guessing you'd piss your pants befor you got the chance to converse with them, though. I mean after all, they ARE crackheads. They're probably planning to rob you for all you've got on you to go buy more crack right? :684:
 
EasyEJL said:
Totally wrong. Every time a drug was changed from an illegal status to a legal commercially produced status usage goes up significantly. Decriminalization of personal quantities does not show the same increase in use, however given what it takes to create meth (unlike growing weed) that would have no effect on safety
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haha.

(and what im going to say is not directed to your singular comment, but all the comments that mirror yours.)

I think you got that the other way around. Illegalizing drugs increases their usage?
I dont know of to many drugs that were legal, then were legalized, and then their usage spiked.
Yes cocaine, opiods used to be legal back in the day. And they were less abuses,according to the articles i have read

Alcohol prohibition of 1920 to 1933 was not successful, and they had enough balls back then to make the decisions.

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Holy crap how many articles can you find to support my opinion.

Ill listen to your point if you cant post any articles or studies.

There are even cops who believe in legalizing drugs.

to be frank, i think you have no clue what your talking about, and are talking through your emotions.

and meth creation and weed creation that you brought up, i couldnt really understand exactly what you were getting at. Ah... but meth labs and pot farms are no comparrison.I do agree that legalizing pot does not make us to much safer, but that should be legalized for personal freedom.

drugs have become legalized FOR power. Drugs are more valuable when there illegal.
DRUGS = MONEY = POWER
thats why there legal.

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Seriously, i have yet to hear anyone provide a knowledge answer to why illegalizing drugs are good.(many stupids answers)
 
Sorry anyone, who believes that drugs and the people who use them are inherently bad are stuck in their own zealous religous moral dilemas. You can believe in Jesus, Mohanmand, whoever. I dont really care. You have the freedom of religion. But please dont bring your moral intuitions based on religion or not, into American politics. The separation of church and state. The sepation of OLD fashioned, pre-scientific moral contiousness that is infringing on personal freedoms of Americans.

Im not trying to group people into being religious, but most of these old fashioned moral intuitions have spawned from religion.

As Friedrich Nietzsche said, "God is Dead".
 
Mars1107 said:
haha.

(and what im going to say is not directed to your singular comment, but all the comments that mirror yours.)

I think you got that the other way around. Illegalizing drugs increases their usage?
I dont know of to many drugs that were legal, then were legalized, and then their usage spiked.
Yes cocaine, opiods used to be legal back in the day. And they were less abuses,according to the articles i have read

Alcohol prohibition of 1920 to 1933 was not successful, and they had enough balls back then to make the decisions.

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Holy crap how many articles can you find to support my opinion.

Ill listen to your point if you cant post any articles or studies.

There are even cops who believe in legalizing drugs.

to be frank, i think you have no clue what your talking about, and are talking through your emotions.

and meth creation and weed creation that you brought up, i couldnt really understand exactly what you were getting at. Ah... but meth labs and pot farms are no comparrison.I do agree that legalizing pot does not make us to much safer, but that should be legalized for personal freedom.

drugs have become legalized FOR power. Drugs are more valuable when there illegal.
DRUGS = MONEY = POWER
thats why there legal.

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Seriously, i have yet to hear anyone provide a knowledge answer to why illegalizing drugs are good.(many stupids answers)
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Mars1107 said:
Sorry anyone, who believes that drugs and the people who use them are inherently bad are stuck in their own zealous religous moral dilemas. You can believe in Jesus, Mohanmand, whoever. I dont really care. You have the freedom of religion. But please dont bring your moral intuitions based on religion or not, into American politics. The separation of church and state. The sepation of OLD fashioned, pre-scientific moral contiousness that is infringing on personal freedoms of Americans.

Im not trying to group people into being religious, but most of these old fashioned moral intuitions have spawned from religion.

As Friedrich Nietzsche said, "God is Dead".
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I think that you are right as far as prohibition of any sort doesn't work.

Drugs=money=Power is right on. One of the main reasons that certain drugs aren't legal is there is SO much money in keeping them illegal, from drug dealers to the NARC officers who try to bust them. We have built an economy around the sale and pursuit of illegal goods. Heck, the biggest cash crop in the US is cannabis. :lol:

However, I don't think it is religious/moral institution that has brought about prohibition, I think it is simply something done by people to keep power in the hands of those who currently hold it. The thing about religions is, that it is "sin" to break the law, hence they morally abide to prohibition. It wasn't the religious that made cannabis illegal, it was the lumber industry who put a smear campaign on the plant because hemp was set to replace lumber as a primary (and renewable) source of paper, rope, etc. It's reasons like this that Cannabis is illegal and cigarettes are legal. I mean, if Christians, for example of someone religious... not picking on Christians here... really were morally against drug use, don't you think that Christians wouldn't drink alcohol or smoke tobacco? I know a bunch of Christians who do both. IMO, religion is morally against what is illegal... but they aren't the reason it is illegal in the first place. These people have just used propaganda to sway the religious (quite easily) into believing what they tell them by putting a religious swing on their views.

As far as the Nietzsche comment... look into the eyes of a newborn baby and tell me that God is dead. I'm not Christian, but there are some things that just scream "bigger purpose/higher power" to me. I really have a hard time with Niezsche as he really just hated the human race as a whole.
 
GMG760 said:
I think that you are right as far as prohibition of any sort doesn't work.

Drugs=money=Power is right on. One of the main reasons that certain drugs aren't legal is there is SO much money in keeping them illegal, from drug dealers to the NARC officers who try to bust them. We have built an economy around the sale and pursuit of illegal goods. Heck, the biggest cash crop in the US is cannabis. :lol:

However, I don't think it is religious/moral institution that has brought about prohibition, I think it is simply something done by people to keep power in the hands of those who currently hold it. The thing about religions is, that it is "sin" to break the law, hence they morally abide to prohibition. It wasn't the religious that made cannabis illegal, it was the lumber industry who put a smear campaign on the plant because hemp was set to replace lumber as a primary (and renewable) source of paper, rope, etc. It's reasons like this that Cannabis is illegal and cigarettes are legal. I mean, if Christians, for example of someone religious... not picking on Christians here... really were morally against drug use, don't you think that Christians wouldn't drink alcohol or smoke tobacco? I know a bunch of Christians who do both. IMO, religion is morally against what is illegal... but they aren't the reason it is illegal in the first place. These people have just used propaganda to sway the religious (quite easily) into believing what they tell them by putting a religious swing on their views.

As far as the Nietzsche comment... look into the eyes of a newborn baby and tell me that God is dead. I'm not Christian, but there are some things that just scream "bigger purpose/higher power" to me. I really have a hard time with Niezsche as he really just hated the human race as a whole.
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I dont exactly believe in Neitzhe "God is Dead" was something i said to spark interest.
"God is Dead" means according to Neitzche, is that the religions of the past our dead. Sort of, that we dont need them anymore.

Neitzche was for shure an atheist, I am not.
And im not a Neitzche follower by any means, some of things out of context make sense to me and I applaud people who express their opinions unbiasedly, and who venture out into what is not acceptable.

I still want to believe in a God, but the way the monotheistic religions have explained God dont make sense.

Crap, i almost got in a huge car accident today. And it hits you a little bit.

But yeah, humans need faith, and there is a desire for that, just perhaps i believe in a different God than everyone else.

But we agree! i enjoy knowing there are like minded individuals.

I knew about the cannabis thing, but i was talking about the morals that have sprung out of religion and old philosophies that denounce drugs.

Its these moral arguements that we have to protect each other, as you implied, that the politicians used legalize some of the drugs, not canabis.

But politicians being corrupt and purposely banning drugs, is kind of a conspiracy theory, even though i believe it to a certain extent.

The main thing in my opinion, is that it political homicide to take a weak stand on drug use. It makes you look bad. Because people have been programmed this way, to not think logically, and think with their guts. No one would vote for a candiate pro-legalization.

In the future it may happen, people like Ron Paul have been fairly popular. The libertarian party still remains in obscurity though.
 
Bigchourico said:
It's funny but there's some people I know and that's all they care about..
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People use stimulants all the time to boost their stregth, their bench.

I havent tried methamphetamine, so i couldnt compare.

Its probally the LEAST healthy of stimulants for shure.
Its even more unhealthy due the contaminants in it, due to its illegality.
I really dont have hands one experience

But from just a scientific perspective, it doesnt make any sense to take it over other stimulants. I think there would be better stimulants for the gym.


"One of the earliest uses of methamphetamine was during World War II when the German military dispensed it under the trade name Pervitin.[8] It was widely distributed across rank and division, from elite forces to tank crews and aircraft personnel. Chocolates dosed with methamphetamine were known as Fliegerschokolade ("airmen's chocolate") when given to pilots, or Panzerschokolade ("tank chocolate") when given to tank crews."
 
Mars1107 said:
People use stimulants all the time to boost their stregth, their bench.

I havent tried methamphetamine, so i couldnt compare.

Its probally the LEAST healthy of stimulants for shure.
Its even more unhealthy due the contaminants in it, due to its illegality.
I really dont have hands one experience

But from just a scientific perspective, it doesnt make any sense to take it over other stimulants. I think there would be better stimulants for the gym.


"One of the earliest uses of methamphetamine was during World War II when the German military dispensed it under the trade name Pervitin.[8] It was widely distributed across rank and division, from elite forces to tank crews and aircraft personnel. Chocolates dosed with methamphetamine were known as Fliegerschokolade ("airmen's chocolate") when given to pilots, or Panzerschokolade ("tank chocolate") when given to tank crews."
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OK thank you..
 
Bigchourico said:
OK thank you..
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have you ever tried PEA type supplements?Pretty much a legal amphetamine in all it sense.
Leviathan Reloaded is one(highly reccomended)
cytolean another
Amp2
SuperPump 250 has a pretty stim matrix
Theres a bunch

All are very effective stimulant cocktails, not so much fatburners as they are marketed.

Also ReadyforWar for a non PEA based.


1,3-Dimethylamylamine is another powerful stimulant, but i dont think its a good one for streghth. It has some weird effects, maybe increased audio perception, a little Euphoria. Interesting to try, but i have to take more if it, to see if I like it i guess.

ECA is good for pre-workout and fat loss. And is probally the best.

But i think stim combinations probally yeild the best results, ie Ephedrine plus caffiene, the possibilites our endless, im shure if i put my mind to it, and had money to invest i could create The perfect stim.

I have my own envisioning, stimulants, with a little bit of gaba producing elements, and nootropic elements, test, and streght elements.

Problem is there are no good supplemental Gabanergics. Really good combination is a barbituate with a heavy stimulant to offset, the negative side effects. Work pretty well.
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These legal stims are pretty dam effective. Some of the new stuff, in my opinion may be stronger than ephedrine. i still like Ephedrine better though, it has less sides for me.

But if you are taking steriods, you should know that stims/steriods dont mix well. Unless you have a very good cardiovascular system, and ARE IN PERFECT health. It wouldnt be too dangerous persay, in relative terms of course, that is if you moniter your bloodpressure daily, and other health precautions.
 
orangutan said:
i dont mean to bring negativity in here... but i know guys who do it to stay lean and have super strength/energy (makes sense i guess because one of the main ingrediants is ephedrine)
anyway, have any of u guys got ballsy and tried something like this before? i know its a horrible drug but just curious
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Are you talking about Ultimate Orange?

There's kind of a difference between methamphetamine and ephedrine. Although ephedrine is a b-hydroxylated derivative, it can't penetrate into brain tissues, leading to the same effects as meth.

Ultimate orange was an old-school pre-workout formula from like the 90's. If I remember correctly, it was just ECA, whey protein, and B-vitamins.
 
Bigchourico said:
But will METH increase my bench ???
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" It’s a common belief that meth gives people super-human strength. This of course is false, but meth inhibits pain and increases metabolism, allowing the user to push muscles to points of failure that would otherwise be harder or impossible to reach. "

So it does increase stregth albiet artificially. So what the point of that, only for an occasion. Im shure it will make you crazy strong when u take it, reinforcing the need to take it.
So if your only doing on occassion, for a competition, well now you're cheating. I dont have a particular problem with cheating, but most of the sports world does.

So therefore, my argument of not using meth pre-workout ends.

Although all stimulants are detrimental to health in the board spect.

It would be better, to get into a habit of taking no-xplode then taking meth. In my opinion, lots of the otc stims can be habbit forming, right?

You take them pre-workout to get a stregnth boost, if you dont take them the next workout, you wont get the same streght boost, lending itself to becoming a habit.
 
OK people this looks kinda bad. If some NEW guy comes in here and asks an "ignorant" question, alot of times, if they ANY response, it'll be "do a search" or "this post doesn't go here". And that can leave a person feeling "a little stupid". It happened to me....lol. IMO, this post is questionable and definitely out of place, yet it has gotten 77 hits thus far.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/126153-trying-cut-thinking.html#post1969773

just as example, this post is by a guy who joined "this month" and asked a bodybuilding question. No 77 responses here. People find their way into communities like this because they are searching for "positives" and "good advice" from people who have found it.

Try posting this type of thread here dude.
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Mars1107 said:
I dont know of to many drugs that were legal, then were legalized, and then their usage spiked.
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Every time a drug is COMMERCIALIZED it happens. Again, there is a huge difference between decriminalizing and legalizing. In denmark when drugs were commercialized, usage went up by something over 100%. Marijuana being decriminalized for personal use but still remaining illegal to sell doesn't show a significant increase in usage rates. Huge difference in "you can make it yourself to use in your own home privately" vs "major corporations can begin selling it for a profit". And for a fair number of the drugs in question, there is no easy way to grow or make it at home, so decriminalizing wouldn't work as they would still be buying the drugs illegally. Can you imagine how much usage would go up if Bacardi started marketing ecstasy like they do mojitos? Lots of people who would never have tried it would if they could walk into their "liquor" store and pick up a 5 pack for $10 with no risk of getting arrested. Heck, I know what i'd be doing friday nights. :)
 
Mars1107 said:
Sorry anyone, who believes that drugs and the people who use them are inherently bad are stuck in their own zealous religous moral dilemas. You can believe in Jesus, Mohanmand, whoever. I dont really care. You have the freedom of religion. But please dont bring your moral intuitions based on religion or not, into American politics. The separation of church and state. The sepation of OLD fashioned, pre-scientific moral contiousness that is infringing on personal freedoms of Americans.

Im not trying to group people into being religious, but most of these old fashioned moral intuitions have spawned from religion.

As Friedrich Nietzsche said, "God is Dead".
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Precisely. I love seeing this... probably the most intelligent post ive seen thus far on this board. youre exactly right, all peoples beliefs are triggered from early childhood brainwashing of religion/spirituality. especialy on a topic like this....thats why its so hard for me sometimes to try and go back and forth with someone who believes in these oldfashioned bible thumping morals. how can i talk sense with someone who believes in the talking snake and adam and eve? lol... i have repect for someone who sees outside the box
 
The problem with talking about personal freedoms like that is that with our founding fathers they also expected personal responsibility. I'm all for legalizing all drugs, so long as all 2nd convictions of violent felonies against persons carry a death sentence with no appeal, and we get rid of welfare, food stamps, and assisted housing. If someone can manage to use drugs and provide for themselves (i did at one point in the past) then power to them. I've never met anyone who used meth who managed that for any length of time tho.
 
Want to know what doesnt fit? A question about using a harmful rec drug on a bodybuilding/fitness board, especially in the anabolics section, and then turning it into a debate on rec drugs and morality. No wonder gear has such a bad rep, we have people debating using rec's, which are a plague on our culture and a black mark on America, I dont think anyone in their right minds actually believes that using meth, crack, etc. is a positive in anyones life. There are people out there who are uneducated/inexperienced enough in the world of lifting, anabolics, whatever, who would read this and think juiceheads=crackheads, or that it is ok to take this stuff as a "performance enhancer".

OP you want a good pre-wkout rush, take test suspension, halotestin (a bit toxic), or find some old mdht (methyl rage, etc) and you will find good aggression (not roid rage), and increased strength. Any of those will work. Have also heard the One by appnuts has this property to some degree as well. Best wishes and hope that may help if you find you are lacking a little in wkout aggression.
 
EasyEJL said:
Every time a drug is COMMERCIALIZED it happens. Again, there is a huge difference between decriminalizing and legalizing. In denmark when drugs were commercialized, usage went up by something over 100%. Marijuana being decriminalized for personal use but still remaining illegal to sell doesn't show a significant increase in usage rates. Huge difference in "you can make it yourself to use in your own home privately" vs "major corporations can begin selling it for a profit". And for a fair number of the drugs in question, there is no easy way to grow or make it at home, so decriminalizing wouldn't work as they would still be buying the drugs illegally. Can you imagine how much usage would go up if Bacardi started marketing ecstasy like they do mojitos? Lots of people who would never have tried it would if they could walk into their "liquor" store and pick up a 5 pack for $10 with no risk of getting arrested. Heck, I know what i'd be doing friday nights. :)
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Yeah your exactly right, that one of the most sensible negatives to legalizing!

Im my envisioning of legalization, and the other politicians(i think), would market Ectasy for instance sort of like tobacco now. Very high taxes on the really bad drugs, even worse than tobacco. To help pay for ad campaigns, rehabilitation centers, and teaching kids at an early age to stay away from drugs.(has a lot to with parenting somewhat,also). With money leftover to pay our Trillion dollar debt!

Also, i think maybe an opposite of Bacadi type commercial. Not tv commericials, because actually i think anti-tobacco commericials havent worked.

But some warning labels, that make tobacco labels seem childish.

I think there would be special stores for drugs, like the strip clubs which are only allowed in certain areas. Zoning. A place i used to live in, was a dry county that didnt sell alcohol for instance. 21 and up.

And i dont believe in commercialization, more of a cross between decriminalization and legalization, in which we can get rid of the black market, but not create a commercial market.

But again, legalizing isnt perfect, you have to weigh to positives and negatives.

Its a really complicated situation, and im not one to come up with a complete solution, but overall, there are enough smart people to devise a plan that will minimize the negatives and maximize the positves.
 
Cfour said:
OK people this looks kinda bad. If some NEW guy comes in here and asks an "ignorant" question, alot of times, if they ANY response, it'll be "do a search" or "this post doesn't go here". And that can leave a person feeling "a little stupid". It happened to me....lol. IMO, this post is questionable and definitely out of place, yet it has gotten 77 hits thus far.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/126153-trying-cut-thinking.html#post1969773

just as example, this post is by a guy who joined "this month" and asked a bodybuilding question. No 77 responses here. People find their way into communities like this because they are searching for "positives" and "good advice" from people who have found it.

Try posting this type of thread here dude.
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Because this topic is more interesting and controversial.

Another, self-help thread, like someone is gonna answer something thats been answered many times over. You cant expect much.:wave2:

and its made so many hits, because i made most of them.haha
 
Mars1107 said:
you are submitting to his logic.

Thats something he would say.

Not to follow people, but follow your own philosophy.
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I will gladly temporarily grasp another mans logic if it can be used purposefully. Limiting oneself to a singular view I have found can break a man.

So I will use his logic, stab him in the face with a soldering iron, then decide his logic sucks, and end a test to see who's logic is more functional and set the body on fire then put it in a barrel of acid, then put whatever residue is left in fireworks and launch em into the sky.

And relax knowing that he now knows his logic didn't "live" up to expectations. lol
 
Mars1107 said:
Its a really complicated situation, and im not one to come up with a complete solution, but overall, there are enough smart people to devise a plan that will minimize the negatives and maximize the positves.
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Name 1 time in the history of mankind where an emotionally charged subject with diametrically opposing groups has ever achieved that where both sides end up agreeing :)

I'm all for legalizing the ones where are you capable of home grow / manufacture, and significantly raising the penalties (like I said, death penalties) for both violent crimes as well as distribution of those. But the problem is that many of my favorites aren't so easy to home manufacture, ecstasy being one, LSD, opium, etc. I guess GHB is easy though if the raws became legal again, they were only criminalized to avoid people making GHB :)
 
I think the difference lies in processing the drugs. If you grow it, dry it, and then use it... great. I've never understood how a plant can be illegal. If you have to make some kind of outside chemical reaction to create it, it probably should remain illegal.
 
Zero V said:
I will gladly temporarily grasp another mans logic if it can be used purposefully. Limiting oneself to a singular view I have found can break a man.

So I will use his logic, stab him in the face with a soldering iron, then decide his logic sucks, and end a test to see who's logic is more functional and set the body on fire then put it in a barrel of acid, then put whatever residue is left in fireworks and launch em into the sky.

And relax knowing that he now knows his logic didn't "live" up to expectations. lol
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Good. Im not a Neitchzian, just i liked a few of the things he said.

But what branch of philosophy do you think makes most sense.

They all have problems.
 
lets not move from drugs to philosophy. As I told my college philosophy teacher "All philosophers are people who talk a lot but say nothing...." needless to say I failed
 
EasyEJL said:
Name 1 time in the history of mankind where an emotionally charged subject with diametrically opposing groups has ever achieved that where both sides end up agreeing :)

I'm all for legalizing the ones where are you capable of home grow / manufacture, and significantly raising the penalties (like I said, death penalties) for both violent crimes as well as distribution of those. But the problem is that many of my favorites aren't so easy to home manufacture, ecstasy being one, LSD, opium, etc. I guess GHB is easy though if the raws became legal again, they were only criminalized to avoid people making GHB :)
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yeah, i guess your right.

But i guess i see people in an optimistic light,that in general they are responible. I mean i dont see the anything wrong with doing LSD,opium,GHB occasionally. Except, i think Ectasy really screws up the neurotrasmitters in your brain.

But then i guess it comes down to, dont you want your freedoms to do with whatever you want with your body? Why is the government's responbility? Shouldnt it be your friends, coworkers, and family to tell you not to do it?

LSD, thats drug that can kill you yes if you take much, but why shouldnt you be allowed to explore you mind, legally and safely, without having to deal with drug dealers, that you may not trust. The drug is not addictive, and im shure most common Americans probally wouldnt like the experience.
 
GMG760 said:
I think the difference lies in processing the drugs. If you grow it, dry it, and then use it... great. I've never understood how a plant can be illegal. If you have to make some kind of outside chemical reaction to create it, it probably should remain illegal.
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Than we can still smoke opium and coca leaves!

But i mean marijuanna has been altered from its orginal form. I mean some of the breeds are straight up THC.
 
EasyEJL said:
lets not move from drugs to philosophy. As I told my college philosophy teacher "All philosophers are people who talk a lot but say nothing...." needless to say I failed
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Yeah, the problem is, im taking that class right now, so its spilling into my mind, i cant control it.:684:Final Paper...
 
Mars1107 said:
Than we can still smoke opium and coca leaves!

But i mean marijuanna has been altered from its orginal form. I mean some of the breeds are straight up THC.
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I mean... if you want to smoke coca leaves or straight opium, that's your deal, and if you can grow it... go for it. I just don't think that processed cocaine or heroin should be legal, nor chemicals like MDMA. Yea, they are fun... yes I have done them in the past... but do I think it should be legal... no.

Should Weed and shrooms be legal? Why not... they grow naturally.

The potency of weed isn't what I was talking about and doesn't take a chemical process to change into a usable state. The potency of weed is just from selecting genetics and breeding them with other select genetics.
 
Mars1107 said:
But then i guess it comes down to, dont you want your freedoms to do with whatever you want with your body? Why is the government's responbility? Shouldnt it be your friends, coworkers, and family to tell you not to do it?

LSD, thats drug that can kill you yes if you take much, but why shouldnt you be allowed to explore you mind, legally and safely, without having to deal with drug dealers, that you may not trust. The drug is not addictive, and im shure most common Americans probally wouldnt like the experience.
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well, see the FDA was largely created in the first place as what some people took as part of "regulating interstate commerce" which is a legitimate focus of our federal government. The problem is that the goal of regulating interstate commerce means that they would have to settle disputes between states having different food safety codes. Picture if 2 neighboring states have different laws over storage for eggs. State A requires eggs be pasteurized, stored at certain temp after pasteurization, etc. State B has no pasteurization requirement. Chicken farmers in state B would not be allowed to sell into State A, but that is unfair to them. So the FDA steps in and makes the determination of what is a safe way to store and sell eggs, and then both states have to live with that....

So although the initial goal was part of the government's core responsibility, its gone further and further towards guaranteeing peoples safety. I mean, geezuis, the new credit card laws passed last week are insane and pointless, people already agreed contractually to all those things when they accepted the credit card. The fact that they chose not to read the disclosures isn't the credit card company's fault, its their own. Same with variable rate mortgages, etc. so blame the 53% of people who voted for Obama, who think that government is the solution rather than the problem.
 
GMG760 said:
I think the difference lies in processing the drugs. If you grow it, dry it, and then use it... great. I've never understood how a plant can be illegal. If you have to make some kind of outside chemical reaction to create it, it probably should remain illegal.
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I don't know you don't need a chemical reaction for poppy seed plants or coca leaves also True it may take a lot more of them but you can still use them for the same effect
 
GMG760 said:
I think the difference lies in processing the drugs. If you grow it, dry it, and then use it... great. I've never understood how a plant can be illegal. If you have to make some kind of outside chemical reaction to create it, it probably should remain illegal.
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typical pothead comment lol. no pun intended...just reminds me of the average argument i would hear in highschool. if u really want to get down to it...it sounds even more natural to me to chew on coca leaves...then to burn weed through a pipe and inhale it into ur lungs lol.
 
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