Coop's Corner #7: Amentoflavone Finally Explained

NewAgeMayan said:
Id be surprised if placebo wasnt more prevalent in the supp industry than many of us would believe. To be clear, I dont mean this to imply there is widespread malicious scamming by the supp companies; rather, I think it is an innevitable consequence of human cognition.

One of the main mechanisms by which placebo is even possible is also what makes resistance training, and particularly progression, possible in the first place (whether the trainee takes supps or not); we are all familiar with the saying that training is as much mental as physical.

Due to these cognitive mechanisms being largely non-/sub-conscious in nature, no-one can rule out (by self-diagnosis) their playing some role every time they train, whether they are using some ergogenic that is 'studied and proven' or not.
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Good post.
I have seen many funny placebo effects from my friends that made me laugh so much.

We can take one as example:
My friend was visiting me and prior eating he asked me if I had any stims because he felt so tired.
I walked to my own "supplement store" the rom where my supps are. I took 1 ecdysterone tab and gave it to him..

after 15 minutes he said:
Woooah what the hell is in this tab. I am so energized ! I really want to hit the gym!!!!

I tried to explain him that i have fooled him. Ecdy is far from a stim and NO one could feel stim effect from it. Bigger chance to get stim effect from c vitamin than ecdy.
But he didnt believe me. He was totaly sure this gave him energy ...

Placebo is stronger than we think
 
Cjg said:
How do u like amentomax?
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Ive only used it a couple times myself, and it was at one cap pre workout. I think i need to use it a little more before i can comment about much, but so far im not sure if its doing anything or not.
 
anabolix said:
Why such low doses? My bottle of amentomax comes in 200mg a cap, and recommends 2 servings a day. Maybe you need 400mg+?
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He means he's going to try that much of Amentoflavone, which is the extract within your product. I believe each capsule is 40mg of actual amento.
 
Cjg said:
Danes u must be a non responder which sucks! I took 2 Amentomax before gym this morning. And strength was way up! Slight pump and mental focus was laser! I literally couldn't belive this off one dose. placebo or not Theres something to this stuff!! I've never took anything in my life that worked on the first dose besides a preworkout..
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Great to hear! This is the response that we have seen over, and over, and over again.

When we released AmentoMax we didn't say much about it. There was a demand for it as a single ingredient. So we provided it to everyone. Mr. Cooper wrote this informative piece to help everyone understand the mechanisms of Amentoflavone and their potential to bodybuilders and athletes.

And the rest was 100% genuine anecdotal feedback like above...for almost a year now
 
Quadzilla99 said:
Pretty sure neuron would speak with more certainty on creatine lol. Lame example.

I like neuron, cooper, NO HYPE, etc. so I don't really have a dog in this but neuron seemed much, much more cautious when discussing than he has in the hundreds and hundreds of his other posts of his I've read on compounds he feels more confident in.
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why are you speaking for someone else? no offense
 
braskibra said:
why are you speaking for someone else? no offense
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Because I thought it was a pretty weird to compare the level of knowledge on something with no in vivo studies to something that's the most studied supp in existence in creatine. Moa and bioavailability of creatine is super well known and proven. Josh brought up neurons posts in the first place in this discussion so discussion turned to neurons posts and he's banned here so we can't talk to him directly anyways.
 
Cjg said:
Would Amentomax stack good with x gels?
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They fine together, there are no conflicts that Im aware of at least.

But why are you thinking of adding amento? I mean, what are you hopin to see from it?

If its primarily strength gains, personally, Id save amento for a seperate run. Youre likely to get decent strength gains as it is from the ArA...arguably I think it 'better' to have a longer stretch of strength gains than a shorter 'condensed' one.

But, Im sure plenty will say they had good results stacking the two, so again just my opinion.
 
I'm already taking Amentomax and love it. My friend gave me a bottle of xgels said it hurt his joints to bad. May save the xgels for after Amentomax.
 
Cjg said:
Would Amentomax stack good with x gels?
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Iirc, one of the functions of Amento actually compliments ArA, so running them together would be beneficial...was trying to look for that specific post earlier, seem to recall Coop addressing it, maybe...
I just recently added Xgels (4) in with my High volume +stims + soy lecithin stack and it.is.awesome.
 
schizm said:
Iirc, one of the functions of Amento actually compliments ArA, so running them together would be beneficial...was trying to look for that specific post earlier, seem to recall Coop addressing it, maybe... I just recently added Xgels (4) in with my High volume +stims + soy lecithin stack and it.is.awesome.
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Ya they should go well together. That is a sick combo you have going on too. :eek:
 
kdubson14 said:
Been taking 400mg caffeine anhydrous, 80mg amentoflavone the past week, having previously dosed 200mg caffeine anhydrous, 120mg amentoflavone. PRs on everything with the 400/80 dose.
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tried this dosing protocol today instead of my usual. I usually get 315 for 8,7,6 on incline all paused for one second. Today my first set I only got 6 so I punished myself and did my next two sets with a 3 second pause and got 2x6. Idk if i just wasn't warmed up enough or got a bad spot on the first set but I'm going to to back to 250mg caffeine and 120mg amento next week and so 3 sets with 3 second pauses and see if I get more or less
 
I'm loving AmentoMax at 120mg preworkout. Big difference between 80mg and 120mg...
It also doesn't seem to matter how hard of a day I've had at work either (manual labor job), strength is still great with it preworkout, even while cutting.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I'm loving AmentoMax at 120mg preworkout. Big difference between 80mg and 120mg... It also doesn't seem to matter how hard of a day I've had at work either (manual labor job), strength is still great with it preworkout, even while cutting.
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That's awesome feedback. Glad to hear AmentoMax has been complementing your diet (especially in a deficit) and training so nicely.
 
I am stacking Amentomax with Olympus labs EPIC both 2 caps fasted. My strength is beginning to go up pretty good. I have only been on this stack for about 11 days. I should have ran each product solo to assess which one is giving me the strength gains or maybe stacking them is more effective. One thing I am noticing is the endurance I can workout forever it seems, I don't wanna leave the gym. I'm loving this stack.
 
irvin said:
I am stacking Amentomax with Olympus labs EPIC both 2 caps fasted. My strength is beginning to go up pretty good. I have only been on this stack for about 11 days. I should have ran each product solo to assess which one is giving me the strength gains or maybe stacking them is more effective. One thing I am noticing is the endurance I can workout forever it seems, I don't wanna leave the gym. I'm loving this stack.
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Definitely should have ran each solo first, especially with those two products.

Reason being, some notice strength from EPIC/-(-)Epi while others do not. But many notice increased endurance.

Then with AmentoMax, most are noticing great strength gains.
 
Yip, "run new products solo to assess personal efficacy" can *seem* like boring cookie-cutter advice. But it is also very wise, I think.
 
It isn't just wise, it is the only way to determine what a product is doing. As soon as another variable is added, everything is changed.
 
kisaj said:
It isn't just wise, it is the only way to determine what a product is doing. As soon as another variable is added, everything is changed.
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This.

Both particular products from above can improve strength, so by adding them at the same time, you can't be certain which ingredient/product is the cause.
 
If primarily taking amentoflavone and agmatine for their mood and anxiolytic benefits, would it be better to take them spread throughout the day with meals (breakfast and dinner) or on an empty stomach (morning and afternoon)? If better for those benefits with a meal (or if the same regardless), would a meal high in protein affect the absorption of either supplement?
 
klind14 said:
If primarily taking amentoflavone and agmatine for their mood and anxiolytic benefits, would it be better to take them spread throughout the day with meals (breakfast and dinner) or on an empty stomach (morning and afternoon)? If better for those benefits with a meal (or if the same regardless), would a meal high in protein affect the absorption of either supplement?
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agmatine with meals and amento on an empty stomach
 
GreenMachineX said:
I'm pretty sure protein competes for absorption of agmatine...
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but even if that's true, why would that be a big problem? as far as i am aware you can resorb an almost unlimited amount of protein (to the point where how much you can stuff into your stomach without vomiting is the limiting factor before transporter saturation in the colon), so you should be able to take in the agmatine well enough. or am i wrong about this?
 
EBF Inc said:
do you have a link?
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iddqd said:
but even if that's true, why would that be a big problem? as far as i am aware you can resorb an almost unlimited amount of protein (to the point where how much you can stuff into your stomach without vomiting is the limiting factor before transporter saturation in the colon), so you should be able to take in the agmatine well enough. or am i wrong about this?
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Good point. Does that also mean it's not necessary to take taurine, tyrosine, theanine, etc on an empty stomach either?
 
klind14 said:
If primarily taking amentoflavone and agmatine for their mood and anxiolytic benefits, would it be better to take them spread throughout the day with meals (breakfast and dinner) or on an empty stomach (morning and afternoon)? If better for those benefits with a meal (or if the same regardless), would a meal high in protein affect the absorption of either supplement?
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There are much better ingredients for mood and anxiolytic benefits than those two. You can spread them out, however, to get the most out of them.
 
Synapsin said:
There are much better ingredients for mood and anxiolytic benefits than those two. You can spread them out, however, to get the most out of them.
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I already take rhodiola rosea for the same reason. I just bought some agmatine and amentomax though and was curious if taking them with meals (especially ones high in protein) can affect their absorption.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I'm pretty sure protein competes for absorption of agmatine...
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If you notice, the thread where you read this originally goes into detail about why this isn't correct.

klind14 said:
I already take rhodiola rosea for the same reason. I just bought some agmatine and amentomax though and was curious if taking them with meals (especially ones high in protein) can affect their absorption.
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It shouldn't affect it that much.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Good point. Does that also mean it's not necessary to take taurine, tyrosine, theanine, etc on an empty stomach either?
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i don't think so, because with tyrosine you mainly want to increase your dopamine (re-)synthesis and as far as i know, neurotransmitters are more about ratios, e.g. acutely and transiently increasing dopamine:serotonin ratio a bit.
you will get better effects from theanine as well because you will get more theanine faster if you take it outside of a whole meal. idk what low dose taurine does, but the several grams doses to increase hydration status shouldn't be affected because as far as i know this effect is a bit longer lasting, but don't take my word for that as i'm very much not confident that's correct.

anyway, i was talking about absorption of the whole thing and that will happen regardless of what you eat with those amino acids as well. but that doesn't say anything about if it changes the effects or not, e.g. i don't know if agmatine will still release as much insulin (or whatever it is that makes me so hungry when i take 500mg+, it does a lot of different things after all) if you take it with instead of before meals. peak concentrations might be lower because it might be absorbed slower with bigger meals. but i guess one of the guys here who know all this stuff will have a better/actual answer ;)
 
iddqd said:
i don't think so, because with tyrosine you mainly want to increase your dopamine (re-)synthesis and as far as i know, neurotransmitters are more about ratios, e.g. acutely and transiently increasing dopamine:serotonin ratio a bit.
you will get better effects from theanine as well because you will get more theanine faster if you take it outside of a whole meal. idk what low dose taurine does, but the several grams doses to increase hydration status shouldn't be affected because as far as i know this effect is a bit longer lasting, but don't take my word for that as i'm very much not confident that's correct.

anyway, i was talking about absorption of the whole thing and that will happen regardless of what you eat with those amino acids as well. but that doesn't say anything about if it changes the effects or not, e.g. i don't know if agmatine will still release as much insulin (or whatever it is that makes me so hungry when i take 500mg+, it does a lot of different things after all) if you take it with instead of before meals. peak concentrations might be lower because it might be absorbed slower with bigger meals. but i guess one of the guys here who know all this stuff will have a better/actual answer ;)
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Gotcha. Maybe Coop could clarify that part...
 
GreenMachineX said:
Nope, I could easily be wrong, I just recall reading that from others smarter than I. And I should have said "I thought...", not " I'm pretty sure... "
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agmatine works via a few pathways pi3k/akt

That's the insulin pathway which has been shown to aid protein synthesis
 
I take 2 pre workout!! Major strength and decent pumps!! Leaning effect. Strength is very noticible
 
I currently take 2 cps prework.

I wanted to know if on days off he had the sense to take it.

High Volume, on 2 scoops, because amentomax contains? cps, 1 or 2?
 
Question, after running a stack of Anabeta and Erase for 8 weeks can Amentomax be taken during the 4 week break without issue?
 
Not sure what he is referencing, but those items have anti-inflammatory properties. Right before, during, and a little after training, local, acute inflammation is GOOD. Sort of like "Wait 4 hours after ArA/Lifting before you take your Omega-3s".
 
So I wanted to resurface this thread with a couple quick questions.
1. Would amentoflavone mix well with theanine? I asked a similar question in a previous thread I started but didn't really get any clear answers. Thinking about making my own pre workout stack with those 2 ingredients and caffeine and alpha gpc. Also I was considering stacking San Fierce and San Megatron pre workout. The San Fierce has theanine and the Megatron has a small amount of amento. I was gonna add two more caps.
2. I know it was mentioned earlier but why would you not stack amento with picamilon? I have used Lgi Fully Loaded amplified edition and Metabolic Nutrition ESP with 2 to 4 caps of amentomax with good results in strength output.
Any input on these two questions would be appreciated.
 
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