Classic Kleen - The Road To Competition Fall 2024

[akboom87]

Thank you Gentlemen!

I did a good feeler full body push session Friday, and am doing a feeler pull session today. Everything held up yesterday, and my chest and shoulders got a little sore. I am looking forward to seeing how everything holds up today after a pull session then will be kicking things right back up in intensity and volume. I am going to start some of the worrisome areas with 3 straight sets instead of failure for a couple sessions probably limiting effort to right around 2RIR. Make sure form stays at all times and I am not pushing so hard that aggravation of these areas is overly likely.

We started Prep this week, decent size caloric drop here. Mostly by cutting a lot of fats back out of the diet.

Previous Daily Macros:
Calories - 4114 - Macros - 445g Carb, 300g Protein, 126g Fat

New Daily Macros:
Calories - 3581 - Macros - 438g Carb, 293g Protein, 73g Fat

Other changes - Cardio goes from 25x5 a week to 30x5 a week.

This is my current bloodwork as of 4/11/24. All in all not that bad many of the things I expected to still see up are up. Some of the other stuff is so good I am very surprised. I am not overly worried about the higher creatinine levels, relatively common for me, and the EGFR improved over the last month but the one here in the metabolic section is not the one I am looking to read off of. I did the cystatin c to get a more accurate EGFR reading. I will make a few comments as I go through. However I am pretty sure some of this does put me off from starting the push with gear for a few more weeks. Going with the coach's decisions here.

TSH is high and out of range, this means my metabolism is running a little slow right now. I know being on gear raises this number so maybe just a matter of time. I will also look into some ways to boost this. Possibly add some real cranberry juice, and more iodized salt to my diet. I had been wondering if only using Himalayan Sea Salt would lower levels. Not sure if that is the case but if iodine levels are lower that could also have something to do with that.

HCT is a little high but I warned coach this will not dip below 50 on 210mg of testosterone a week. So not sure what his intentions will be here.

Platelets are a little low, and MPV is just a touch out of range, curious if this has anything to do with the baby aspirin or the fact I donated a few weeks back.



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My Cystatin C is only .01 out of range, but eGFR is in range which is good. Uric Acid and all urine analysis looks good feeling confident to move on. I was half expecting to see things looking worse here.


These are the best lipids I have seen in years for me. Look at that HDL, that is pretty good for me especially after having been on 600-1200mg of gear from Oct 1- March 23rdish with only 3 weeks down at 200mg of test. I am very impressed with that.

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All in all I am pretty happy with the blood work as mentioned it has been a long run and blood work has looked pretty good throughout. Between the diet, and the consistent cardio it makes sense, but I am impressed with the numbers anyway. I am looking forward to stopping my statins after the prep to see if I even need them any more as long as I maintain cardio, healthy diet, and leanness.

Here are some shots of the reversal point after a total gain of 26.8 lbs @221.2 lbs!!! Not too bad after a down week from injury.
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Incredible work! You have been working so hard and man it shows big time!

 

[Hyde]

Good looking out, I was looking forward to your feedback regarding the Cystatin C test. I need to read up a bit more on tren and kidney function. Since I was never really that interested in running it due to the temperament issues I haven't really super educated myself on it, and why it would be worse on the kidneys than other compounds. I will go have a look and educate myself on that a bit more. I imagine he will be able to bring me in with a good package tren or no tren.

Thanks you Sir! We made it, and did pretty good even with having to drop doses from 1200mg down to 800mg a week during the final push instead of increasing it. Does kind of make me wonder where we would have ended up if we hadn't had to drop and were able to push up further instead.

Either way, I am really looking forward to cutting weight back down and getting ripped AF!!!

Modern preps by and large are varying amounts and esters of test & mast and/or primo. The details are athlete and coach response and preference.

Then some Tren last 4-8 weeks and/or dry orals last 4-6. Or sometimes rarely DHB in lieu of Tren, but if DHB is giving you knots that’s going to make for a poor look on stage and inability to flex/pose optimally.

A lot of coaches who don’t use Tren to finish will go with just Winny or some combo of Winny, Var, Proviron, and/or Halo. Sometimes Superdrol is an option in the mix.

I would have said Winny and Var, because Var is the only other AAS besides Tren that really inhibits the glucocorticoid receptor similarly, but it’s primarily metabolized by the kidneys so in your case it actually doesn’t make sense.

I don’t know why Tren can be hard on kidneys, possibly how hard it is on BP?

But on test & mast, with Proviron last 6 weeks and Winstrol last 4, maybe also Halo last 2, you should be able to get hard as nails if you’re truly conditioned.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

With an eGFR that low even with cystatin C, I would not touch Tren. Not over something like 10mg/day purely for glucocorticoid inhibition. If you can’t get stage ready on test & mast with Winny and some halo besides that, then so be it.

Do you think his eGFR number would improve after a few weeks on lower cals?

 

[BennyMagoo79]

Thank you Gentlemen!

I did a good feeler full body push session Friday, and am doing a feeler pull session today. Everything held up yesterday, and my chest and shoulders got a little sore. I am looking forward to seeing how everything holds up today after a pull session then will be kicking things right back up in intensity and volume. I am going to start some of the worrisome areas with 3 straight sets instead of failure for a couple sessions probably limiting effort to right around 2RIR. Make sure form stays at all times and I am not pushing so hard that aggravation of these areas is overly likely.

We started Prep this week, decent size caloric drop here. Mostly by cutting a lot of fats back out of the diet.

Previous Daily Macros:
Calories - 4114 - Macros - 445g Carb, 300g Protein, 126g Fat

New Daily Macros:
Calories - 3581 - Macros - 438g Carb, 293g Protein, 73g Fat

Other changes - Cardio goes from 25x5 a week to 30x5 a week.

This is my current bloodwork as of 4/11/24. All in all not that bad many of the things I expected to still see up are up. Some of the other stuff is so good I am very surprised. I am not overly worried about the higher creatinine levels, relatively common for me, and the EGFR improved over the last month but the one here in the metabolic section is not the one I am looking to read off of. I did the cystatin c to get a more accurate EGFR reading. I will make a few comments as I go through. However I am pretty sure some of this does put me off from starting the push with gear for a few more weeks. Going with the coach's decisions here.

TSH is high and out of range, this means my metabolism is running a little slow right now. I know being on gear raises this number so maybe just a matter of time. I will also look into some ways to boost this. Possibly add some real cranberry juice, and more iodized salt to my diet. I had been wondering if only using Himalayan Sea Salt would lower levels. Not sure if that is the case but if iodine levels are lower that could also have something to do with that.

HCT is a little high but I warned coach this will not dip below 50 on 210mg of testosterone a week. So not sure what his intentions will be here.

Platelets are a little low, and MPV is just a touch out of range, curious if this has anything to do with the baby aspirin or the fact I donated a few weeks back.



View attachment 241475
View attachment 241470


View attachment 241471
My Cystatin C is only .01 out of range, but eGFR is in range which is good. Uric Acid and all urine analysis looks good feeling confident to move on. I was half expecting to see things looking worse here.


These are the best lipids I have seen in years for me. Look at that HDL, that is pretty good for me especially after having been on 600-1200mg of gear from Oct 1- March 23rdish with only 3 weeks down at 200mg of test. I am very impressed with that.

View attachment 241473
View attachment 241474

All in all I am pretty happy with the blood work as mentioned it has been a long run and blood work has looked pretty good throughout. Between the diet, and the consistent cardio it makes sense, but I am impressed with the numbers anyway. I am looking forward to stopping my statins after the prep to see if I even need them any more as long as I maintain cardio, healthy diet, and leanness.

Here are some shots of the reversal point after a total gain of 26.8 lbs @221.2 lbs!!! Not too bad after a down week from injury.
View attachment 241476

Looking good mate! Bloodwork is pretty good for a blast too!

 

[Hyde]

Do you think his eGFR number would improve after a few weeks on lower cals?

Cystatin C isn’t going to increase or decrease based on caloric load. Protein intake certainly doesn’t. That’s not a value you should expect to ever come down - so if his glomular filtration is actually only 61 based on that, then that’s probably what he’s got to make it with for the rest of his life (assuming no further decrease in function).

That’s what I mean when I say, I would be very cautious about what I put into my body at that point. And I would be monitoring bp religiously when changes are made to ensure that stays controlled.

@MrKleen73 are you taking Astragalus? Definitely want to add that in if not, although I thought you were already on it. Good, cheap support.

 

[SkRaw85]

Modern preps by and large are varying amounts and esters of test & mast and/or primo. The details are athlete and coach response and preference.

Then some Tren last 4-8 weeks and/or dry orals last 4-6. Or sometimes rarely DHB in lieu of Tren, but if DHB is giving you knots that’s going to make for a poor look on stage and inability to flex/pose optimally.

A lot of coaches who don’t use Tren to finish will go with just Winny or some combo of Winny, Var, Proviron, and/or Halo. Sometimes Superdrol is an option in the mix.

I would have said Winny and Var, because Var is the only other AAS besides Tren that really inhibits the glucocorticoid receptor similarly, but it’s primarily metabolized by the kidneys so in your case it actually doesn’t make sense.

I don’t know why Tren can be hard on kidneys, possibly how hard it is on BP?

But on test & mast, with Proviron last 6 weeks and Winstrol last 4, maybe also Halo last 2, you should be able to get hard as nails if you’re truly conditioned.

Thats what I was under the impression of. The constant elevated BP just working, taxing and stressing the kidney beans. Work tax stress. Tren mimics American life!

 

[MrKleen73]

I wrote out replies to everyone last night and apparently didn't hit post. Thanks for the compliments. As far as tren and the kidneys, the higher BP it causes seems to be the culprit when i looked up why it was so hard on the kidney. I didn't find anything like it being processed specifically by the kidneys or anything. Just the mentions of high BP.

Coach said we can do the prep without tren, or just run it extremely low but sounds like we will more than likely bump the orals up a little bit to get the same effects.

I did my cardio yesterday, but for some reason my knee was hurting from the time I woke up until I got off work. So I decided to hold off on working legs and let the inflammation or whatever shake out. It is feeling better today so going to do some legs at the gym across the street. Nothing crazy just get some volume and blood pumping, test the leg out and see if it is willing to play today.

 

[MrKleen73]

So one of the things with my bloodwork I am a little perplexed with is my TSH being so high at a time we were pushing calories. Why metabolism would be downregulating at 4200 calories doesn't really make sense even with me having been on so long it is a little surprising to me and my coach. I considered possibly I need to increase my iodine intake. I have not been salting with iodized salt, been using mostly Himalayan salt, so do you all think I could have just gradually ran through iodine stores after so long without really using iodized salt? If so I could easily replace some of the carbs from morning meal with a couple oz of 100% pure Cranberry juice to get a big jolt of iodine in the morning, and then maybe do half of my sodium intake via iodized salt instead of the Himalayan.

Does anyone have any specific supps they might suggest for metabolism health? Coach told me to look at Revive's line up to see if they have a metabolism product, which I found one but he has no experience with it either. It looks to be relatively cheap but will be a pain in the arse to use for metabolism specifically. They suggest putting one drop of it in an oil carrier and injecting that into a capsule to take twice a day. I wonder if i could just inject it into one of my fish capsules right before taking it or something. Otherwise I might just put a drop of it into a 1/4tsp of olive oil and swallow it or something.

Anyway, looking for suggestions on something to increase metabolism and lower TSH if anyone has any suggestions. Kind of crazy to think how well cardio is going and then to think metabolism is running slow for some reason. Definitely not something you want going into a cut. This is the first time my TSH has ever been out of range but to be fair I have never run gear for 20+ weeks straight either.

 

[Hyde]

It’s probably the extended gear use. Did you look at your T4 and T3 levels? You don’t really have the whole picture just with TSH, just conjecture that it should be lower when bulking and higher when cutting.

I take a ~2oz shot of pure Cranberry juice every morning I am training (3 days per week). If I wasn’t fasting the other mornings, I would just take 1oz daily - that’s plenty for daily use.

As an enhanced athlete, you should be taking Selenium every morning to support the thyroid’s deiodinase enzymes. You take androgens it turns things up, so it’s understandable you in turn need more substrate for all processes (more calories, more minerals, vitamins, choline etc). I take Swanson 200mcg first thing every day, after my Nattokinase.

Most of the year I also take 250mg of CEL TUDCA (or 500 sometimes later in blast) at the same time. You don’t need much of it, but it facilitates D2 deiodinase expression, which in turn increases intracellular T3 expression. I got both that and the Selenium from Alex Kikel - taking it in the morning supports a healthy nighttime cascade taking place.

TLDR; I take a shot of cranberry any morning I’m not fasting, and I take a cap of selenium and CEL TUDCA daily first thing.

 

[MrKleen73]

This is great information! Thanks @Hyde! I do have some CEL TUDCA I was saving for when I got on orals I can throw into the mix. I will order some selenium, and go pick up some cranberry juice. See what happens.

My bloodwork did not have any T3 tests, but here is what it said for my T4 levels, down at the bottom of the range, so I am sure not optimal.

@Hyde, did you see any reason to take more astralagus than the 2g in Kidney Support XT?

I worked legs yesterday at the gym across the street. I was precautious and didn't kill myself with intensity on the leg press. Went for TUT and volume there instead.

Leg Press Machine - 220x10, 280x10, 340x10, 380x10, 380x10, 380x10, 380x10, 380x10 - The last 3 sets were hars, and the last 2 sets were grinders on the last several reps.

DB Walking Lunges - 40x8, 40x8

Leg Curls - 100x20, 110x15, 120x10, 90x17

Leg Extensions 90x20, 100x15, 100x15, 100x12

My legs are not sore yet, but they definitely are tired / feel heavy. So I know the session did the trick.

 

[Dustin07]

DB Walking Lunges - 40x8, 40x8

are you running these in a front rack / clean position or farmers carry style?
I've been thinking about bringing lunges back in on my lower day to break up the monotony of my habitual machine use post deads/squats and maybe get some better adductor glute engagement.

 

[Hyde]

@Hyde, did you see any reason to take more astralagus than the 2g in Kidney Support XT?

The dose for Astragalus specifically for kidney support/restoration starts at 3-4g daily. Some people have used much higher. I always use at least 3g/day on blast, and most of the year. That’s why the dose is such as it is with the full dose of Kidney Support. All of those ingredients will realize more efficacy at the full dose as listed.

For you, I would pick up some Swanson Astragalus root when you order your Selenium. Add 3 caps of that along with your half serving of Kidney Support XT to get the Astragalus up.

Although I think you are mad if you go on blast with those values and don’t bump it up to run the full dose. Kidneys going to be the thing that takes you out of the game if there’s anything that could. You have to keep them supported and BP controlled. Those ingredients help with both when administered over 2 doses/day.

 

[MrKleen73]

are you running these in a front rack / clean position or farmers carry style?
I've been thinking about bringing lunges back in on my lower day to break up the monotony of my habitual machine use post deads/squats and maybe get some better adductor glute engagement.

I do them like a Farmer Carry, and I only use my front leg to come out of the hole, I literally pick my rear foot off the ground as soon as I start to the way up. It really gets the glute / ham tie in and my adductors pretty nocely and quads always get toasty.

The dose for Astragalus specifically for kidney support/restoration starts at 3-4g daily. Some people have used much higher. I always use at least 3g/day on blast, and most of the year. That’s why the dose is such as it is with the full dose of Kidney Support. All of those ingredients will realize more efficacy at the full dose as listed.

For you, I would pick up some Swanson Astragalus root when you order your Selenium. Add 3 caps of that along with your half serving of Kidney Support XT to get the Astragalus up.

Although I think you are mad if you go on blast with those values and don’t bump it up to run the full dose. Kidneys going to be the thing that takes you out of the game if there’s anything that could. You have to keep them supported and BP controlled. Those ingredients help with both when administered over 2 doses/day.

Ah Makes sense, I obviously made a mistake with the dosing on the Kidney XT, which explains a lot. I didn't realize I was running half a dose at 6 caps a day. I will definitely bump this... Damn it Man, that makes a lot of sense... I read somewhere it was 6 caps but didn't realize that was for multiple doses. Feeling a bit dumb over that one. So I have been half protected the entire time I was running my blast... No wonder things aren't looking so great. I will take 6 more tonight when i get home then switch to 3-4 doses throughout the day. Looks like I will be buying another 3 or 6 pack of this stuff if they have a sale for Memorial Day. Thanks for always taking time to explain things thoroughly @Hyde. It is the details that can save a person sometimes. Hopefully increasing the dose will help things improve or at a minimum not get any worse.

 

[Dustin07]

I do them like a Farmer Carry, and I only use my front leg to come out of the hole, I literally pick my rear foot off the ground as soon as I start to the way up. It really gets the glute / ham tie in and my adductors pretty nocely and quads always get toasty.

i ran some today in front rack position but it was a bit "stretchy" on the knee cap. I haven't really done "functional" leg work in so long I need to ease back into that rom I think... but doing things like that is showing me where I've neglected certain work.

 

[Hyde]

I do them like a Farmer Carry, and I only use my front leg to come out of the hole, I literally pick my rear foot off the ground as soon as I start to the way up. It really gets the glute / ham tie in and my adductors pretty nocely and quads always get toasty.

Ah Makes sense, I obviously made a mistake with the dosing on the Kidney XT, which explains a lot. I didn't realize I was running half a dose at 6 caps a day. I will definitely bump this... Damn it Man, that makes a lot of sense... I read somewhere it was 6 caps but didn't realize that was for multiple doses. Feeling a bit dumb over that one. So I have been half protected the entire time I was running my blast... No wonder things aren't looking so great. I will take 6 more tonight when i get home then switch to 3-4 doses throughout the day. Looks like I will be buying another 3 or 6 pack of this stuff if they have a sale for Memorial Day. Thanks for always taking time to explain things thoroughly @Hyde. It is the details that can save a person sometimes. Hopefully increasing the dose will help things improve or at a minimum not get any worse.

2 doses x6 caps is what you want. I believe that’s the optimal dosing, compared to 1 or 3x. But in a pinch, all at once is better than nothing. Get them all in daily is the golden rule for support.

I had lower urea and creatinine on my last bloods than I’ve seen in a decade after using full dose Kidney Support XT for months straight.

 

[MrKleen73]

Awesome hopefully I will see some better results at the full dose. I imagine I will. What an oversight... Oh well I am sure the half dose was better than nothing.

Thanks again for all of the advice and guidance!

 

[Hyde]

Awesome hopefully I will see some better results at the full dose. I imagine I will. What an oversight... Oh well I am sure the half dose was better than nothing.

Thanks again for all of the advice and guidance!

It was, for sure.

I want to see you keep your health, and hopefully accomplish your goals too!

 

[MrKleen73]

It was, for sure.

I want to see you keep your health, and hopefully accomplish your goals too!

I have sat down and started to reply / update the thread several times now but I keep getting pulled every which way and forgot to finish. Things are a bit hectic at work, and lots of busy body nonsense going on at home. So I haven't really had much time outside of work, sleep, training and eating to do anything else.

Things are going well, lower back has recovered decently, I do have to be careful with it but the good news is I am able to train most things with very high intensity.

Calories dropped again this week so in 2 weeks we went from 4200 to 3581 to 3358 expecting to see some drop off the coming week or two. Interestingly enough my bodyweight has gone up this week. I have weighed in at a fasted 224lbs the last 2 mornings which is surprising.

Resting Heart Rate and BP are lowering as well. RHR 60, BP 125/75. Really hoping my next bloods come back in at an acceptable level to get things going again on the gear front.

Had a great chest and biceps session yesterday. Been eating and drinking to fuel my training after work. Really looking forward to working my legs today.

 

[Hyde]

I have sat down and started to reply / update the thread several times now but I keep getting pulled every which way and forgot to finish. Things are a bit hectic at work, and lots of busy body nonsense going on at home. So I haven't really had much time outside of work, sleep, training and eating to do anything else.

Things are going well, lower back has recovered decently, I do have to be careful with it but the good news is I am able to train most things with very high intensity.

Calories dropped again this week so in 2 weeks we went from 4200 to 3581 to 3358 expecting to see some drop off the coming week or two. Interestingly enough my bodyweight has gone up this week. I have weighed in at a fasted 224lbs the last 2 mornings which is surprising.

Resting Heart Rate and BP are lowering as well. RHR 60, BP 125/75. Really hoping my next bloods come back in at an acceptable level to get things going again on the gear front.

Had a great chest and biceps session yesterday. Been eating and drinking to fuel my training after work. Really looking forward to working my legs today.

I hope bloods are good for you too, and training is great.

Took my bp yesterday and we’re basically twinning lol - 124/73 and pulse of 56.

 

[Dustin07]

Glad to hear things are going well, been waiting for an update!!

your lower weight higher volume hypertrophy work has been on my mind a lot lately.

 

[MrKleen73]

Hey everyone, sorry I haven't been updating, between this project at work getting toward the final big push, and being busy with things at home I really haven't had time to do much but eat, deal with things at home, work and train. I am back down to 217 as of right now. I kind of expected to be leaner by now, but I know on the way down things just look different.

We dropped calories again this week from 3358 down to 3160, new macros are 301 P, 345 C, 64 F.

I will be going to get blood work again later this week to see when we can kickstart this gear back in. This is the go / no go blood test here so if things are not good enough for him to feel comfortable moving forward the contest will be delayed and I will have another 6 weeks at cruise doses. Then aim for the December shows which will be harder competitions. Hopefully things are looking better. I really don't want to extend this if not necessary.

Hopefully we will finish this project up in the next few weeks and I will have more time to run a decent log.

 

[Dustin07]

been waiting for your updates homie!