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Building Back Up

sns8778 said:
It would be rare for fruits and vegetables to play a role in that, but I know you respond differently to a lot of things, so its definitely possible.

IF it is those contributing, then my thought would be that one can use supplements to supplement for the nutrition missed by not eating enough fruits and vegetables, whereas you can't really substitute anything for quality of sleep. So if it were me, I would go for the improved sleep quality route.
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Thanks. What kind of supplement do you mean?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Thanks. What kind of supplement do you mean?
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Your question, the way I took it, was choosing between fruits and veggies for health or sleep quality, in that you thought that eating them may be contributing to you not sleeping well.

I doubt that they are what's causing you not to sleep good, but from what you've said, you have some not so common responses to a lot of different things.

So, in answering you, if I had to make a personal choice, I would choose to go with better sleep quality.

I don't eat many fruits and vegetables myself, not nearly as many as I should. You said that you were eating more fruits and vegetables for health purposes, so what type of supplement I would suggest to use in place of them would really depend on what nutrients or purposes you were eating them for to begin with?

We've had some people ask us to do a fruits and veggies type supplement for people that don't eat a lot of them, and I actually have the formula done for it, it just hasn't bean high on the priority list bc we have several things in front of it.
 
sns8778 said:
I don't eat many fruits and vegetables myself, not nearly as many as I should. You said that you were eating more fruits and vegetables for health purposes, so what type of supplement I would suggest to use in place of them would really depend on what nutrients or purposes you were eating them for to begin with?
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I have a salad every single day for lunch with 6-8oz of meat (usually chicken). and rice if I'm lifting, no rice if i'm cutting. the only fruit I think I ever get is a tomato on my salad or burger lol. although I used to eat an apple every day preWO. I just got sick of them, too sweet. my wife likes to stock blueberries and raspberries but best I can do is chug occasional cranberry juice. personally I think if I were to indulge in fruit my preference would be oranges or watermelons.

no idea why I shared any of that.
 
Dustin07 said:
I have a salad every single day for lunch with 6-8oz of meat (usually chicken). and rice if I'm lifting, no rice if i'm cutting. the only fruit I think I ever get is a tomato on my salad or burger lol. although I used to eat an apple every day preWO. I just got sick of them, too sweet. my wife likes to stock blueberries and raspberries but best I can do is chug occasional cranberry juice. personally I think if I were to indulge in fruit my preference would be oranges or watermelons.

no idea why I shared any of that.
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I laughed pretty good after I got done reading and then your comment down below 😂
 
Dustin07 said:
I have a salad every single day for lunch with 6-8oz of meat (usually chicken). and rice if I'm lifting, no rice if i'm cutting. the only fruit I think I ever get is a tomato on my salad or burger lol. although I used to eat an apple every day preWO. I just got sick of them, too sweet. my wife likes to stock blueberries and raspberries but best I can do is chug occasional cranberry juice. personally I think if I were to indulge in fruit my preference would be oranges or watermelons.

no idea why I shared any of that.
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So your only veggie intake is a salad at lunch?
 
GreenMachineX said:
So your only veggie intake is a salad at lunch?
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Average is lunch salad, and my wife and I have veggies at dinner every night. For instance Monday is usually fish + Brussels and broccoli, and the rest of the week tends to be a similar situation with the protein changing
 
GreenMachineX said:
I did for years, going from zma to magnesium glycinate to magnesium citrate. I get side effects from all forms now. The last time I took zma I didn't sleep a wink, and the other 2 give similar issues but not as bad.
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I couldn’t remember seems like it was talked about before.
 
sns8778 said:
Your question, the way I took it, was choosing between fruits and veggies for health or sleep quality, in that you thought that eating them may be contributing to you not sleeping well.

I doubt that they are what's causing you not to sleep good, but from what you've said, you have some not so common responses to a lot of different things.

So, in answering you, if I had to make a personal choice, I would choose to go with better sleep quality.

I don't eat many fruits and vegetables myself, not nearly as many as I should. You said that you were eating more fruits and vegetables for health purposes, so what type of supplement I would suggest to use in place of them would really depend on what nutrients or purposes you were eating them for to begin with?

We've had some people ask us to do a fruits and veggies type supplement for people that don't eat a lot of them, and I actually have the formula done for it, it just hasn't bean high on the priority list bc we have several things in front of it.
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Yeah, the reason I "feel" like I should be eating more fruits and veggies is for the ORAC content. So something like a fruit and veggies supp like you mentioned sounds good.
Dustin07 said:
hey broski, didn't you have recent blood work? how did that go?
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I did! My free testosterone is perfect, 117 on a range of 35 to 155.
Estrogen was perfectly in the middle of the range.
B12 above 800 now.
Pregnenolone and progesterone all bottom of the range but supposedly normal (range being 0 to whatever, so apparently not important).
Cortisol bottom of normal range.
DHEA far below the normal range.

Maybe the combination of all that is what's causing my issues. I have to send the results to my doctor that ordered it because the lab didn't. We'll see what he says.
 
Dustin07 said:
I don't know anything about cortisol other than theoretical iceberg discussion. if DHEA is low, could you slab on some dermacrine?

I felt awesome on dermacrine...

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Normally, I would agree with you, but not in his case. He says that he has a very different response to a lot of things than most people, and my fear would be in his case that it could throw some things out of whack and reflect negatively on Dermacrine, when really it would be his individual response to it. The reason I say that is because DHEA is much more potent in a td and also because it has pregnenolone in it as well, and with his response, there's a lot that could go wrong with taking both in the same product.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I've considered it, but I'll probably try a sublingual dhea first.
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If you do, and I want to share this from my own experience because me and you react weird to some things - in theory sublingual DHEA should work better than regular capsule dosing - in my experience though, it makes me feel really odd and off. I tried it and felt so weird, I thought I was getting a sinus infection. Stopped, went away. Started back, it started back. So I went back to the capsules for me.
 
Bench
Incline CG Hammer Press
Cable Upright Row
Overhead Cable Extension

Nothing worth logging, but still got some work in.

Thanks everyone for the feedback on all questions above.
 
Deadlifts
Cable Rows
Reverse Pec Deck
Curls

Nothing worth noting again...just getting the work in, except I'll be ditching barbell Row for a while in favor of cable rows with 2 single hand attachments. Felt it sooooo much more in the target muscles and have felt like I've been wasting time with barbell Row.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Deadlifts
Cable Rows
Reverse Pec Deck
Curls

Nothing worth noting again...just getting the work in, except I'll be ditching barbell Row for a while in favor of cable rows with 2 single hand attachments. Felt it sooooo much more in the target muscles and have felt like I've been wasting time with barbell Row.
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I don’t think you have been wasting time with the barbell row, I think it’s good to use different varieties.
For instance I have been alternating between barbell shurgs and cable shrugs I think it’s a great combo!!
 
GreenMachineX said:
Alternating each workout?
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I am yes in the program I’m running now one I do shurgs 3 out of 4 days. First day barbell shrugs 2nd day cable shrugs 3rd day leaning dumbbell shrugs.
Not saying it’s the best in the world but is working great for me hitting different angles and different tensions!
 
I used to hold my bb rows in a position that was probably like a 45 degree back angle, and at full extension not ever touch the bar back to the ground in a set.

My buddy is very opposed to those because he doesn't like catching the full weight of the row against his joints and biceps in the eccentric full extension.

Idk if he's right or wrong but the past week or two I've started resetting each rep touching the ground. It's a very difficult position for me to get into, having the back essentially at a 90 degree with butt back into an RDL type position.

Mine end up being sorta like a very short straight legged dl at first but this tiny extra ROM I'm getting is blowing up my lats. I'm loving this variation even though my form sucks and I need to work on it.
 
Dustin07 said:
I used to hold my bb rows in a position that was probably like a 45 degree back angle, and at full extension not ever touch the bar back to the ground in a set.

My buddy is very opposed to those because he doesn't like catching the full weight of the row against his joints and biceps in the eccentric full extension.

Idk if he's right or wrong but the past week or two I've started resetting each rep touching the ground. It's a very difficult position for me to get into, having the back essentially at a 90 degree with butt back into an RDL type position.

Mine end up being sorta like a very short straight legged dl at first but this tiny extra ROM I'm getting is blowing up my lats. I'm loving this variation even though my form sucks and I need to work on it.
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Setting it down makes it a lot easier on the low back. So if you are doing the barbell row for the erector strength too, don’t do this, but if lat strength/size is the goal setting it on the ground will actually let me lift more weight usually in time.

If doing them for deadlift accessory, BB rows keeping the barbell off the ground is more transfer to holding position/bracing on a deadlift, while resetting from the ground can help build the very start of the deadlift better.
 
Dustin07 said:
I used to hold my bb rows in a position that was probably like a 45 degree back angle, and at full extension not ever touch the bar back to the ground in a set.

My buddy is very opposed to those because he doesn't like catching the full weight of the row against his joints and biceps in the eccentric full extension.

Idk if he's right or wrong but the past week or two I've started resetting each rep touching the ground. It's a very difficult position for me to get into, having the back essentially at a 90 degree with butt back into an RDL type position.

Mine end up being sorta like a very short straight legged dl at first but this tiny extra ROM I'm getting is blowing up my lats. I'm loving this variation even though my form sucks and I need to work on it.
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I've always done them with my back parallel to the ground, like the bottom of an rdl and it used to work great for me, so I'm not sure what's going on, but ever since the 6 month layoff, haven't gotten them right since.
 
Dustin07 said:
I used to hold my bb rows in a position that was probably like a 45 degree back angle, and at full extension not ever touch the bar back to the ground in a set.

My buddy is very opposed to those because he doesn't like catching the full weight of the row against his joints and biceps in the eccentric full extension.

Idk if he's right or wrong but the past week or two I've started resetting each rep touching the ground. It's a very difficult position for me to get into, having the back essentially at a 90 degree with butt back into an RDL type position.

Mine end up being sorta like a very short straight legged dl at first but this tiny extra ROM I'm getting is blowing up my lats. I'm loving this variation even though my form sucks and I need to work on it.
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So the way you used to do it was high trap involvement it sounds like too?
 
GreenMachineX said:
So the way you used to do it was high trap involvement it sounds like too?
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Yeah and that also was sorta intentional. There was a period of time this winter that I felt I needed to develop a particular angle up there to correct slide forward shoulder roll tbh but it was minor, sorta splitting hairs and looking for things to improve.

Btw I was just thinking about that xpg alpha gel Steve has. I'm really liking it, I wonder if it would be a good fit for you.
 
Dustin07 said:
Yeah and that also was sorta intentional. There was a period of time this winter that I felt I needed to develop a particular angle up there to correct slide forward shoulder roll tbh but it was minor, sorta splitting hairs and looking for things to improve.

Btw I was just thinking about that xpg alpha gel Steve has. I'm really liking it, I wonder if it would be a good fit for you.
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What is slide forward shoulder roll?
 
Starting a new job today, training in office from 8-5 the next 2 weeks, so I'm moving my workout schedule to 2 workouts during the week and 2 workouts on the weekend. I'll have to get up at 4:30 am to workout during the week...not thrilled about that which means I'll have to workout fasted too since I take levothyroxine as soon as I wake up and don't want to wake up earlier then necessary. But, well see how it goes. Tomorrow is a test run. Haven't had a job I needed to go into an office for 2 solid years.
 
GreenMachineX said:
What is slide forward shoulder roll?
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ahh typo. "slight" forward shoulder roll. There was a slight imbalance aesthetically and I was trying to get things to pull towards this direction a little bit

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GreenMachineX said:
so I'm moving my workout schedule to 2 workouts during the week and 2 workouts on the weekend
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seems like a perfect setup aside from the 4:30am part. 2 hard sessions on the weekend. two good sessions mid week, lots of rest in between them...

what were you doing that gave you the wfh setup for so long?
 
Dustin07 said:
ahh typo. "slight" forward shoulder roll. There was a slight imbalance aesthetically and I was trying to get things to pull towards this direction a little bit

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seems like a perfect setup aside from the 4:30am part. 2 hard sessions on the weekend. two good sessions mid week, lots of rest in between them...

what were you doing that gave you the wfh setup for so long?
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Looks like I have some slight forward roll too, but it could just be underdeveloped rear delts.

Yeah, I'm not happy about waking up at 4:30, but it is what it is and it's only 2 weeks, then back to wfh. I work for an electronics company, before i was looking at customer feedback and now working in the parts department. WFH is a beautiful thing, but I need to find something that pays better soon.
 
You can take thyroid right before bed (and I mean right before you close your eyes). If you wake up to pee at any point normally, that is actually the most ideal time to administer it. But before bed is superior if you haven’t eaten recently - they decided to promote morning administration because you can’t rely on gen pop to do anything, let alone ask people to avoid eating before bed or even to remember taking a pill when tired. Compliance is the science with drug results, so a lot of drug administration recommendations are not optimal for the drug metabolism but have the highest success rate of people getting it in.

Look at test e: a doctor will say do 1 shot per week, or even every 2 weeks, but you yourself have seen how much more efficient daily micro shots are.

Thyroid meds are similar. So if it will work for you, the nights before your weekday morning workout you can take it right before sleep or mid sleep if you naturally wake routinely. Then you can have caffeine and whatever on the way to the gym.
 
Hyde said:
You can take thyroid right before bed (and I mean right before you close your eyes). If you wake up to pee at any point normally, that is actually the most ideal time to administer it. But before bed is superior if you haven’t eaten recently - they decided to promote morning administration because you can’t rely on gen pop to do anything, let alone ask people to avoid eating before bed or even to remember taking a pill when tired. Compliance is the science with drug results, so a lot of drug administration recommendations are not optimal for the drug metabolism but have the highest success rate of people getting it in.

Look at test e: a doctor will say do 1 shot per week, or even every 2 weeks, but you yourself have seen how much more efficient daily micro shots are.

Thyroid meds are similar. So if it will work for you, the nights before your weekday morning workout you can take it right before sleep or mid sleep if you naturally wake routinely. Then you can have caffeine and whatever on the way to the gym.
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Excellent idea. I wake up to urinate midsleep every day, so no big deal. This will allow me to get some PRO and CHO in with my telmisartan. I don't think telmisartan matters with food. I can't take thyroid before bed though because I've usually eaten within a couple hours and have taken lunesta. Still on a caffeine hiatus though. Not ready to risk that lol
 
GreenMachineX said:
Excellent idea. I wake up to urinate midsleep every day, so no big deal. This will allow me to get some PRO and CHO in with my telmisartan. I don't think telmisartan matters with food. I can't take thyroid before bed though because I've usually eaten within a couple hours and have taken lunesta. Still on a caffeine hiatus though. Not ready to risk that lol
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Yeah Telmisartan does not matter food or timing (when I use it I do before bed & routinely eat late as well).

Just set your thyroid on your bedside table and if you remember, take it after you pee mid night, and if you forget worst case you take it when waking like you originally expected to.
 
Standing OHP 4 x 10/8/8/8 x 115
CG bench 4 x 8/8/8/8 x 115
DB Lateral Raise 3 x 8 x 15's (+1 extra set left side)
Skullcrushers 3 x 10/8/8 x 50

Tried working out fasted. Unsure that mattered as much as just being tired. 4:30 is just too early for me. Gotta do what I gotta do though.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Standing OHP 4 x 10/8/8/8 x 115
CG bench 4 x 8/8/8/8 x 115
DB Lateral Raise 3 x 8 x 15's (+1 extra set left side)
Skullcrushers 3 x 10/8/8 x 50

Tried working out fasted. Unsure that mattered as much as just being tired. 4:30 is just too early for me. Gotta do what I gotta do though.
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Give it 2-3 weeks and it will become normal. I started this in April-ish after are daughter was born. On the flip side though we are on a routine we feed her and put her down from 8-8:30 so we usually are in bed and lights out 9 pm. Also I don’t sleep in on the weekends like I used to do I’m up at 6-7 am that helps keep 4:30 am a lot easier.
 
akboom87 said:
Give it 2-3 weeks and it will become normal. I started this in April-ish after are daughter was born. On the flip side though we are on a routine we feed her and put her down from 8-8:30 so we usually are in bed and lights out 9 pm. Also I don’t sleep in on the weekends like I used to do I’m up at 6-7 am that helps keep 4:30 am a lot easier.
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I just can't get the same pump in the morning, also I don't have kids yet. I guess you probably have no choice.
But I would love to get up early and have all my day ahead.
Morning workouts and late night workouts hits different, also I need at least two cups of coffee before I even can start my day, that is sad.
 
akboom87 said:
Give it 2-3 weeks and it will become normal. I started this in April-ish after are daughter was born. On the flip side though we are on a routine we feed her and put her down from 8-8:30 so we usually are in bed and lights out 9 pm. Also I don’t sleep in on the weekends like I used to do I’m up at 6-7 am that helps keep 4:30 am a lot easier.
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Gotcha. I'll try again tomorrow with upper pull and squats.
 
Localaxis said:
I just can't get the same pump in the morning, also I don't have kids yet. I guess you probably have no choice.
But I would love to get up early and have all my day ahead.
Morning workouts and late night workouts hits different, also I need at least two cups of coffee before I even can start my day, that is sad.
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I've figured out I'm best about 2-3 hours after waking, but that's not conducive to any form of life with a job lol.
 
I don't know what's going on as I normally don't have any issue with brain fog, but I'm really struggling with this new job trying to learn the systems and such. Brain fog is killing me...add that with my normally terrible memory and it's a bad day.
 
Dustin07 said:
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Not to be disagreeable, please don't take this wrong, I'm just trying to help - but I absolutely wouldn't suggest that product for him, with the way he responds to certain things.

I'm not a fan of the formula to begin with, but in his case especially - there are things I've seen him post that he doesn't respond well to, that that formula would likely make a lot worse. Heck, I love nootropics and I tried it and it made me feel so bad that it felt like someone drugged me.
 
that product in particular I've used a number of times and it's fantastic. hard to say if brain fog was a "long covid" symptom for me since my covid was so mild or if it was a result of how damn busy we were in the spring of 2021 but that product within 2-3 days was amazing, like someone turned on a lightbulb in my head.

it's an option worst case scenario it doesn't work and back to the drawing board.
 
Dustin07 said:
that product in particular I've used a number of times and it's fantastic. hard to say if brain fog was a "long covid" symptom for me since my covid was so mild or if it was a result of how damn busy we were in the spring of 2021 but that product within 2-3 days was amazing, like someone turned on a lightbulb in my head.

it's an option worst case scenario it doesn't work and back to the drawing board.
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I think what @sns8778 was getting at was the stimulants in there could easily send me over the edge as well as potential problems with the choline providers in there. I haven't had caffeine in almost 2 years now, and Dynamine even longer, so I appreciate the suggestion, but at this current time, probably not best for me. Worst case for me is I end up in the looney bin 😆
 
GreenMachineX said:
I think what @sns8778 was getting at was the stimulants in there could easily send me over the edge as well as potential problems with the choline providers in there. I haven't had caffeine in almost 2 years now, and Dynamine even longer, so I appreciate the suggestion, but at this current time, probably not best for me. Worst case for me is I end up in the looney bin 😆
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It was the stimulants, choline amount/type, and also a few other things about it that based on what you've said about the way you respond to things, that I don't think it would be a good option for you.

I've noticed some things about you seem to be an extreme response version of some things about me, in that if I respond a little odd to something - you tend to respond really bad to it. And that particular product made me feel wicked brain fog and anything that affects me that way at all, I've learned over the years usually makes you feel even worse.

When I reply to you or to others about things related to you in threads, its not a knock on any products - it's just that I really do pay attention and try to remember the things you've said and things that affect you differently, and from time to time I may just point out if I think something wouldn't be a good idea for you.

Dustin07 said:
they make a non stim one as well, I just in particular preferred that powdered one
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It's nothing against the product - its 100% related to him as an individual. He responds very differently than a lot of people to choline sources, things that influence dopamine, etc.

A lot of the things that would help many people really can throw him out of whack, so I was just trying to look out for him.

That formula isn't terrible, but a lot of it is thrown together in a way to look better on a label than to actually really go well together - and it may work great for some people, but getting into some complicated pathways, it can make some people feel like crap too (myself included). And for him, based off his responses to certain ingredients, I think it would likely either make it worse or make him restless, anxious, and worse - even the stim free one.
 
sns8778 said:
It was the stimulants, choline amount/type, and also a few other things about it that based on what you've said about the way you respond to things, that I don't think it would be a good option for you.

I've noticed some things about you seem to be an extreme response version of some things about me, in that if I respond a little odd to something - you tend to respond really bad to it. And that particular product made me feel wicked brain fog and anything that affects me that way at all, I've learned over the years usually makes you feel even worse.

When I reply to you or to others about things related to you in threads, its not a knock on any products - it's just that I really do pay attention and try to remember the things you've said and things that affect you differently, and from time to time I may just point out if I think something wouldn't be a good idea for you.



It's nothing against the product - its 100% related to him as an individual. He responds very differently than a lot of people to choline sources, things that influence dopamine, etc.

A lot of the things that would help many people really can throw him out of whack, so I was just trying to look out for him.

That formula isn't terrible, but a lot of it is thrown together in a way to look better on a label than to actually really go well together - and it may work great for some people, but getting into some complicated pathways, it can make some people feel like crap too (myself included). And for him, based off his responses to certain ingredients, I think it would likely either make it worse or make him restless, anxious, and worse - even the stim free one.
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Gotcha. Thanks for looking out. On that note, have you found anything that does work well I may need to give a shot?

I do still think a significant portion of my issues evolve around folate/b12 levels and metabolism and methylation.
 
Hyde said:
Yeah Telmisartan does not matter food or timing (when I use it I do before bed & routinely eat late as well).

Just set your thyroid on your bedside table and if you remember, take it after you pee mid night, and if you forget worst case you take it when waking like you originally expected to.
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I did read that they found the telmisartan seemed to keep BP lower over a 24 hour period if the single dose was taken in the AM over taking it in the PM. Just something to consider for timing.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Gotcha. Thanks for looking out. On that note, have you found anything that does work well I may need to give a shot?

I do still think a significant portion of my issues evolve around folate/b12 levels and metabolism and methylation.
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I'm always reading and researching different things. What specifically would you be interested in trying something for? And I can see what I think may best apply to you and your situation.
 
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