Building Back Up

[GreenMachineX]

Still moving good weight nothing to be ashamed of!

Thanks. I'm sure if I just went all out carb load I'd get my 4 sets of 8, but I'm still trying to not get fatter

 

[Dustin07]

OHP still stuck. Slowed everything down to reduce any momentum lifting. Meh.

Many years ago when I focused on OHP more than anything I think I hit an all time best of 205 at 185lb bw. I had read some dude theorize that oly lifters back in the day had more monstrous shoulders because they used steel plates so every lift had an eccentric aspect whereas oly lifters today use bumper plates so when the barbell goes over head, they dump it.

After an OHP working set, I'd move to push press and push jerks to get used to not only throwing more weight over head, but then forcing myself to lower it back down to my shoulders. so if OHP was stuck at say 135 for example, I'd be doing push press at say 155, push jerks maybe 185+ but getting that 185lb eccentric training in.

I also started using micro plates somewhere around 160lbs. I always trained 3s and 5s and if I stalled or felt like I was gonna stall maybe my 160 > 165 move would be more like 160-162lbs but still a PR!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Many years ago when I focused on OHP more than anything I think I hit an all time best of 205 at 185lb bw. I had read some dude theorize that oly lifters back in the day had more monstrous shoulders because they used steel plates so every lift had an eccentric aspect whereas oly lifters today use bumper plates so when the barbell goes over head, they dump it.

After an OHP working set, I'd move to push press and push jerks to get used to not only throwing more weight over head, but then forcing myself to lower it back down to my shoulders. so if OHP was stuck at say 135 for example, I'd be doing push press at say 155, push jerks maybe 185+ but getting that 185lb eccentric training in.

I also started using micro plates somewhere around 160lbs. I always trained 3s and 5s and if I stalled or felt like I was gonna stall maybe my 160 > 165 move would be more like 160-162lbs but still a PR!

Interesting. I'll have to look to see if we have microplates at my gym. Thanks.

 

[MrKleen73]

Interesting. I'll have to look to see if we have microplates at my gym. Thanks.

If they have decent metal collars they are often good for a pound each. Obviously not the plastic ones though. I know some others also use magnets to attach to metal plates. Hell for that matter a decent set of adjustable weight wrist weights can help you add up to 5lbs per arm in small increments.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 220

CG Bench 3 x 12/10/8 x 135
DL Deload 5x135, 5x185, 5x225, 3x275
Reverse Cable Flies 3 x 8 x 7.5
Incline DB Curls 3 x 8 x 30's

The plan was to go lighter on cg bench and deload DL, but I ended up hitting failure on bench anyway so kept dropping the reps per set. Out late at a concert last night and slept terrible on top of it, so whatever.

DL 5x275, 5x315, 5x360 (amrap)
CG Bench 4 x 10/10/10/8 x 135
DB Farmers Walks 2 x 65's about 30 seconds
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 10
Incline DB Curls

I based my 5/3/1 5's week on my new max, not my 90% training max, and could only get 5 at the top set. Hit the goal I guess, but nothing extra. Adding in farmers for trap and forearm work, and because I just like it. Very disappointed how weak I've got there. At one point, I was carrying 250lb in each hand for 50-100ft

Back to farmers walks for a second, my Lateral delts were more pumped from that than Lateral Raise

 

[GreenMachineX]

If they have decent metal collars they are often good for a pound each. Obviously not the plastic ones though. I know some others also use magnets to attach to metal plates. Hell for that matter a decent set of adjustable weight wrist weights can help you add up to 5lbs per arm in small increments.

Nah, they only have the plastic ones. I just need to man up and get stronger lol

 

[MrKleen73]

Nah, they only have the plastic ones. I just need to man up and get stronger lol

Fair enough, but increasing weight incrementally is one of the best ways to get stronger. Unless you just intend to try to add reps instead of progressing via increasing load. You get a couple extra reps then you should be able to add a little weight to things.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Fair enough, but increasing weight incrementally is one of the best ways to get stronger. Unless you just intend to try to add reps instead of progressing via increasing load. You get a couple extra reps then you should be able to add a little weight to things.

I know, I just don't want to buy anything else lol. I agree though with what you're saying.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Got the PEM hard-core today, and up since 4 for no reason. Guessing that amrap DL was too much. Carbs and kcal were very close to maintenance, if not slightly above, so doubt that's a factor.

 

[MrKleen73]

I know, I just don't want to buy anything else lol. I agree though with what you're saying.

Yeah, that is totally understandable.

Got the PEM hard-core today, and up since 4 for no reason. Guessing that amrap DL was too much. Carbs and kcal were very close to maintenance, if not slightly above, so doubt that's a factor.

Hate to hear that. Hopefully it doesn't stick around too long.

 

[Dustin07]

without buying anything else I'd definitely give Kleen's high rep approach a try or if you wanted to spend just a few bucks, bands might also be a solution... banded from the bottom...

oh but also the push press and push jerk... another way to overload the OHP without any additional gear....

 

[MrKleen73]

without buying anything else I'd definitely give Kleen's high rep approach a try or if you wanted to spend just a few bucks, bands might also be a solution... banded from the bottom...

oh but also the push press and push jerk... another way to overload the OHP without any additional gear....

If he really wants his shoulder press to come up he probably needs to back off a little on something else to give extra resources to his priority. Right now he is pushing his bench pretty hard which is going to get in the way of his overhead if that is his priority. Once you get to a certain level you have to start specializing in what your goals are. Once you have a lot of muscle you should start to specialize in what you are trying to improve most, then rotate to something else if you want to try to keep everything moving at different periods. You just have to manage resources better once you get to a certain level.

 

[GreenMachineX]

If he really wants his shoulder press to come up he probably needs to back off a little on something else to give extra resources to his priority. Right now he is pushing his bench pretty hard which is going to get in the way of his overhead if that is his priority. Once you get to a certain level you have to start specializing in what your goals are. Once you have a lot of muscle you should start to specialize in what you are trying to improve most, then rotate to something else if you want to try to keep everything moving at different periods. You just have to manage resources better once you get to a certain level.

Great points. I need to think about what's more important I guess...hmmm.

 

[Dustin07]

Great points. I need to think about what's more important I guess...hmmm.

Good luck with that bro. I KNOW that bench and dead lift are most important to me, yet I continue to kill myself on squats lol

 

[GreenMachineX]

Question for you guys...

My daughter hurt her shoulder during pushups, on Monday, and it hurt to lift it afterwards. The pain is improving daily, but she says it's cracking and popping still when she lifts it. If this was someone my age, I'd say go get it checked out, but my daughter is 12 and it was pushups so It's hard for me to think it's something that serious. Any thoughts?

 

[Dustin07]

in my experience 9 out of 10 shoulder injuries are blown way out of proportion but the 10th one is pretty serious lol.
I'd just have her do normal PT type stuff, starting with rotator cuff rehab movements.
most of those movements are generally the same as doing a snatch which is why I like to warm up with a barbell snatch (empty ) before benching or OHP.

Rest n Stretch

 

[GreenMachineX]

in my experience 9 out of 10 shoulder injuries are blown way out of proportion but the 10th one is pretty serious lol.
I'd just have her do normal PT type stuff, starting with rotator cuff rehab movements.
most of those movements are generally the same as doing a snatch which is why I like to warm up with a barbell snatch (empty ) before benching or OHP.

Rest n Stretch

Makes sense. Yeah, I agree about the shoulder injuries being blown way out of proportion. Thanks.

 

[Dustin07]

honestly I don't do push-ups at all these days because since switching to PL I've lost a ton of mobility and it makes my shoulders crack and pop like crazy all the sudden unless i warm up a ton. I have mobility enough to do squat/press/pull and that's enough for right now

 

[GreenMachineX]

honestly I don't do push-ups at all these days because since switching to PL I've lost a ton of mobility and it makes my shoulders crack and pop like crazy all the sudden unless i warm up a ton. I have mobility enough to do squat/press/pull and that's enough for right now

I don't either, but I do think they are usually great for shoulder health which is why it's weird her shoulder even got injured doing them, when benching didn't.

 

[Dustin07]

but I do think they are usually great for shoulder health

I've actually never hard that they are bad or good for the shoulders... I hadn't really contemplated a push-ups effect on the health of the joint, but when I was doing them (hundreds of them. often in tabatas etc) I was also doing a ton of shoulder mobility, snatching, etc so my joints were quite multifunctional. Maybe her form is off a bit and a narrower position would help...? Kids tend to flare a lot in pressing movements. I find a narrow hand position helps relieve the shoulder when the joint is tight...

 

[MrKleen73]

Honestly, I would give her some ibuprofen to bring the inflammation back down and keep on moving unless it gets worse. Maybe have her do push ups off of the knees if worried about it. The popping and cracking is more likely a bit of swelling making the fluid pockets under higher pressure so they pop as it moves through a ROM. That is just my $0.02, not a Dr's recommendation.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Thanks guys. Great input.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 219

Flat Bench 4 x 6/6/5/3 x 225
Incline CG Hammer Press 4 x 8/8/8/10 x 120
Cable Upright Row 10x47.5, 9x52.5, 8x57.5
Double Cable Pressdown 3 x 8/8/10 x 35


Bad bench session but likely to do with cutting kcal again, although carbs have still been about 200, so I don't know. Had about 75g carbs from rice and 15-20g carbs from berries a few hours earlier, but guess it wasn't enough. Still increased everything else though.

Weight: 221.4

Flat Bench 4 x 8/7/6/4 x 225
Incline CG Press 4 x 8/8/8/8 x 130
Cable Upright Row 10x50, 8x57.5, 8x65
OH Cable Extension 3 x 10/9/9 x 30

Could've got 9 or maybe even 10 (less likely though) on bench @225. Hit failure on set 2, which ruined the following sets, especially the last one, so, I'm still stuck at a total of 25 reps like I have been for several weeks (last week was lower due to reasons outlined above). If I look back over the past couple months, my strength was moving up nicely when I was only doing 4 sets on flat bench and OHP, but since increasing to 4 on CG bench and CG Hammer Press, progress stopped on those. Or, I just really need a deload (but Upright Row and other easier exercises are moving up).

Ditched pressdowns and went back to OH extension for triceps. Another factor I changed back about 6 weeks or so ago.

 

[MrKleen73]

Weight: 221.4

Flat Bench 4 x 8/7/6/4 x 225
Incline CG Press 4 x 8/8/8/8 x 130
Cable Upright Row 10x50, 8x57.5, 8x65
OH Cable Extension 3 x 10/9/9 x 30

Could've got 9 or maybe even 10 (less likely though) on bench @225. Hit failure on set 2, which ruined the following sets, especially the last one, so, I'm still stuck at a total of 25 reps like I have been for several weeks (last week was lower due to reasons outlined above). If I look back over the past couple months, my strength was moving up nicely when I was only doing 4 sets on flat bench and OHP, but since increasing to 4 on CG bench and CG Hammer Press, progress stopped on those. Or, I just really need a deload (but Upright Row and other easier exercises are moving up).

Ditched pressdowns and went back to OH extension for triceps. Another factor I changed back about 6 weeks or so ago.

Well the appropriate question here is what is your goal? Are you trying to grow right now, or get stronger? From your rep ranges and the fact you stick to a 5/3/1 on your programming then you may want to cut some of the volume out so you have more resources available to recover and rebuild enough to keep strength climbing. However at the same time for as long as you have been pushing flat bench, and it getting a little stale, it might be a good time to focus on overhead press a little more and back off a little on bench to let it recover a little more. You will end up seeing the strength increase some from bigger front delts when you start focusing back in harder on chest work.

Another option would be to simply cut one set off of close grip, and one off of Incline bench to allow for more recovery if strength is your focus.

Another option would be moving to 10ish reps for a little bit on bench to grow some new muscle then come back to lower volume with bigger pecs and end up benching more after a meso or so back in the 5 rep range. You shouldn't just keep plowing away at something that isn't responding well. You should change the approach just enough to get the intended results over a period of time.

 

[Dustin07]

Could've got 9 or maybe even 10 (less likely though) on bench @225. Hit failure on set 2, which ruined the following sets, especially the last one, so, I'm still stuck at a total of 25 reps like I have been for several weeks (last week was lower due to reasons outlined above).

I don't think I fully follow cause it looks to me like the previous session was 20 reps, and this session was 20 reps.
previous session was a top set of 6, and this session was a top set of 8? seems like solid progress to me?

Another option would be moving to 10ish reps for a little bit on bench to grow some new muscle then come back to lower volume with bigger pecs and end up benching more after a meso or so back in the 5 rep range. You shouldn't just keep plowing away at something that isn't responding well. You should change the approach just enough to get the intended results over a period of time.

i was thinking the same thing. my knee jerk reaction when I saw the same weight (225) with increased reps I know for me at one point I questioned my conditioning. If I'm always training 3-5 reps for strength *should I condition myself for 10 reps?* so that's what I did. 205 x 10 this week, 210 for 10 next week, and so on until I hit my target 225 x 10. It was semi linear actually with a stall at 220 for a month but then I broke through.

now days focused back to upper end strength I'm back to training triples or more, but it's nice falling back into the pocket and seeing 225 as a rep out zone rather than a training zone after nearly a year of hammering away at it.

 

[MrKleen73]

I don't think I fully follow cause it looks to me like the previous session was 20 reps, and this session was 20 reps.
previous session was a top set of 6, and this session was a top set of 8? seems like solid progress to me?




i was thinking the same thing. my knee jerk reaction when I saw the same weight (225) with increased reps I know for me at one point I questioned my conditioning. If I'm always training 3-5 reps for strength *should I condition myself for 10 reps?* so that's what I did. 205 x 10 this week, 210 for 10 next week, and so on until I hit my target 225 x 10. It was semi linear actually with a stall at 220 for a month but then I broke through.

now days focused back to upper end strength I'm back to training triples or more, but it's nice falling back into the pocket and seeing 225 as a rep out zone rather than a training zone after nearly a year of hammering away at it.

I think he is referring to the fact that for the last several weeks he has not been able to break more than a total of 25 reps @225, which he hit weeks ago. So his total volume on that lift is stagnant and the session you are comparing the 20 reps to was one of his lower intensity sessions or at least lower volume and performance for whatever reason. However that being the case he also added in extra chest volume by adding in the incline bench, and close grip bench, and then adding a set to them. So the volume of work for his chest and anterior delt has increased even though the volume of that lift has not. So if he wants to drive that specific lift volume needs to come from somewhere else to allow him the recovery needed to keep things moving along. Very similar to what you did when you started focusing on reps at 225 and less in the 3-5 range. Then you grew more boobies from the added volume, and came back to put those bigger chesticles to work moving more weight. It's quite the dance trying to keep things moving either via hypertrophy, or strength.

 

[MrKleen73]

Also, I love that you refer to 9-11 reps as repping it out. You are truly becoming a powerlifter Sir!

 

[Dustin07]

Then you grew more boobies from the added volume, and came back to put those bigger chesticles to work moving more weight. It's quite the dance trying to keep things moving either via hypertrophy, or strength.

I DID grow some boobies, definitely a plus in the last year aside from the weird hint of gyno that seems to only rear its head every other day

 

[MrKleen73]

I am telling you, you should definitely get some bloodwork to see if what you think is happening is what is actually happening. obviously not the irritated skin, but with the nipples themselves.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Thanks guys. All good points and input.

The goals right now is bench strength and delt/arm growth. But, I think I need to back up on bench a little, so after taking next week off, I'll start back up with 3 sets of 10-12 on everything.

 

[MrKleen73]

Thanks guys. All good points and input.

The goals right now is bench strength and delt/arm growth. But, I think I need to back up on bench a little, so after taking next week off, I'll start back up with 3 sets of 10-12 on everything.

Give it hell!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Awful PEM today. Still tried to workout anyway since we leave tomorrow for vacation.

Weight: 219.4 (not sure how I went down from yesterday)

Squats Top Set 5x240
Neutral Grip Pullups
Cable Rows
Reverse Pec Deck
DB Curls

Nothing worth logging. Sick of this PEM.

 

[Hyde]

Also, I love that you refer to 9-11 reps as repping it out. You are truly becoming a powerlifter Sir!

10+ unbroken reps on a squat IS repping it out!

 

[Hyde]

Awful PEM today. Still tried to workout anyway since we leave tomorrow for vacation.

Weight: 219.4 (not sure how I went down from yesterday)

Squats Top Set 5x240
Neutral Grip Pullups
Cable Rows
Reverse Pec Deck
DB Curls

Nothing worth logging. Sick of this PEM.

Important thing is you went and did some work before the break - now enjoy your vacation!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Important thing is you went and did some work before the break - now enjoy your vacation!

Right on. Can't wait to take the family white water rafting. First time for the kids. I'm pumped!

 

[MrKleen73]

10+ unbroken reps on a squat IS repping it out!

Especially if you have any lower back issues. However with the big hit on the oxygen consumption of squats 10 reps is brutal unless not that challenging. I just think of things like 15-20 reps or Widow Makers as repping it out. Just old school bodybuilding thought process. 8-12 Hypertrophy, and 15+ considered high rep. Of course we all know now that the hypertrophy rep and loading range is much larger than originally thought.

Important thing is you went and did some work before the break - now enjoy your vacation!

Agreed!

Right on. Can't wait to take the family white water rafting. First time for the kids. I'm pumped!

Oh man, that is going to be so much fun!!! You might need to rest from your vacation when you get back.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Especially if you have any lower back issues. However with the big hit on the oxygen consumption of squats 10 reps is brutal unless not that challenging. I just think of things like 15-20 reps or Widow Makers as repping it out. Just old school bodybuilding thought process. 8-12 Hypertrophy, and 15+ considered high rep. Of course we all know now that the hypertrophy rep and loading range is much larger than originally thought.
Agreed!

Oh man, that is going to be so much fun!!! You might need to rest from your vacation when you get back.

Oh yeah...whitewater rafting, few days at Dollywood, few days at Cedar Point, and a couple days driving in between. "Vacation deload" the following week

 

[Hyde]

Oh yeah...whitewater rafting, few days at Dollywood, few days at Cedar Point, and a couple days driving in between. "Vacation deload" the following week

It’s a real thing for me!

 

[Dustin07]

However with the big hit on the oxygen consumption of squats 10 reps is brutal unless not that challenging. I just think of things like 15-20 reps or Widow Makers as repping it out. Just old school bodybuilding thought process. 8-12 Hypertrophy, and 15+ considered high rep. Of course we all know now that the hypertrophy rep and loading range is much larger than originally thought.

Whenever I'm "training" a 10 rep set for whatever reason, I ALWAYS find rep 7... at any weight... to be where I start to notice it. I occasionally throw in sets of 20 of this or that for that exact reason. My mentality is that if I can train 20s then 10s shouldn't be such a conditioning challenge.

 

[Jeremyk1]

Right on. Can't wait to take the family white water rafting. First time for the kids. I'm pumped!

Oh my god I haven’t gone in so long! My aunt used to be a rafting guide, so my dad and sisters and I went a lot when I was younger. Last time I went must have been at least 10 years ago now.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Whitewater rafting was awesome! This trip has been great overall as well, but Cedar Point park operations are at an all time low. Still having a great time though.

Something weird...the first few days while we were in Pigeon Forge (Dollywood and whitewater rafting) slept terrible and felt pretty rough, but since being in Ohio, sleeping great and feeling pretty darn good. Diet has been garbage the whole time, with the only exception eating 200g of berries for breakfast at pigeon forge like I've been doing for months. I've also stopped taking oral b12 and dropped my D3 dose to 5k iu per day with 180mcg k2 mk7. Also, the bed here in Ohio is super soft, but hard and stiff in weird places in pigeon forge. Possibly...it's all been just a mattress problem...

 

[MrKleen73]

Whitewater rafting was awesome! This trip has been great overall as well, but Cedar Point park operations are at an all time low. Still having a great time though.

Something weird...the first few days while we were in Pigeon Forge (Dollywood and whitewater rafting) slept terrible and felt pretty rough, but since being in Ohio, sleeping great and feeling pretty darn good. Diet has been garbage the whole time, with the only exception eating 200g of berries for breakfast at pigeon forge like I've been doing for months. I've also stopped taking oral b12 and dropped my D3 dose to 5k iu per day with 180mcg k2 mk7. Also, the bed here in Ohio is super soft, but hard and stiff in weird places in pigeon forge. Possibly...it's all been just a mattress problem...

All of those are good observations. Another thing to consider, is that it could just simply be the lack of stress from being off and enjoying yourself, and being active but not beating yourself up. Lowering stress levels over a couple days is likely relieving a lot of the effects of built up stress.

 

[GreenMachineX]

All of those are good observations. Another thing to consider, is that it could just simply be the lack of stress from being off and enjoying yourself, and being active but not beating yourself up. Lowering stress levels over a couple days is likely relieving a lot of the effects of built up stress.

I've considered that also, and haven't ruled it out, but looking back at previous vacations and some still having insomnia and others without, I at least can't trace the pattern as easily. Still a good suggestion though. It'll be interesting to see what happens the week we get back before I start the new position on the 12th...having a week off work at home and start working out again. We'll see what happens.

Edit: Cedar Point park operations were at least mildly better today than the rest of the week, but far more people. Wife and I went without the kids today and it was a blast

For the record, the kids didn't want to go today...we did NOT abandon them lol

 

[Hyde]

Bro if your troubles come down to a mattress I’m gonna die

 

[Hyde]

Glad the vacay has been so great!

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah, it sounds like a great vacation.

 

[akboom87]

Sounds like a good time!! My sister lives somewhere outside of Knoxville TN and she sends me pictures of that area when they go there looks like a nice area and fun times!!

sounds like trying a new bed might be worth a shot!!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Bro if your troubles come down to a mattress I’m gonna die

If it comes down to a mattress, I might die

 

[GreenMachineX]

Thanks gentz. We're headed home tomorrow... just a little 10 hour drive, but we do it twice a year so no big deal. Can't wait to get on the scale because I definitely gained some weight!

 

[Dustin07]

Time for the AM traditional post vacation PR week lol