GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Makes sense. Yeah, I agree about the shoulder injuries being blown way out of proportion. Thanks.
Building Back Up
- Thread starter GreenMachineX
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GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I don't either, but I do think they are usually great for shoulder health which is why it's weird her shoulder even got injured doing them, when benching didn't.honestly I don't do push-ups at all these days because since switching to PL I've lost a ton of mobility and it makes my shoulders crack and pop like crazy all the sudden unless i warm up a ton. I have mobility enough to do squat/press/pull and that's enough for right now
Dustin07
Legend
I've actually never hard that they are bad or good for the shoulders... I hadn't really contemplated a push-ups effect on the health of the joint, but when I was doing them (hundreds of them. often in tabatas etc) I was also doing a ton of shoulder mobility, snatching, etc so my joints were quite multifunctional. Maybe her form is off a bit and a narrower position would help...? Kids tend to flare a lot in pressing movements. I find a narrow hand position helps relieve the shoulder when the joint is tight...
MrKleen73
Legend
Honestly, I would give her some ibuprofen to bring the inflammation back down and keep on moving unless it gets worse. Maybe have her do push ups off of the knees if worried about it. The popping and cracking is more likely a bit of swelling making the fluid pockets under higher pressure so they pop as it moves through a ROM. That is just my $0.02, not a Dr's recommendation.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Thanks guys. Great input.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Weight: 221.4
Flat Bench 4 x 8/7/6/4 x 225
Incline CG Press 4 x 8/8/8/8 x 130
Cable Upright Row 10x50, 8x57.5, 8x65
OH Cable Extension 3 x 10/9/9 x 30
Could've got 9 or maybe even 10 (less likely though) on bench @225. Hit failure on set 2, which ruined the following sets, especially the last one, so, I'm still stuck at a total of 25 reps like I have been for several weeks (last week was lower due to reasons outlined above). If I look back over the past couple months, my strength was moving up nicely when I was only doing 4 sets on flat bench and OHP, but since increasing to 4 on CG bench and CG Hammer Press, progress stopped on those. Or, I just really need a deload (but Upright Row and other easier exercises are moving up).
Ditched pressdowns and went back to OH extension for triceps. Another factor I changed back about 6 weeks or so ago.
MrKleen73
Legend
Well the appropriate question here is what is your goal? Are you trying to grow right now, or get stronger? From your rep ranges and the fact you stick to a 5/3/1 on your programming then you may want to cut some of the volume out so you have more resources available to recover and rebuild enough to keep strength climbing. However at the same time for as long as you have been pushing flat bench, and it getting a little stale, it might be a good time to focus on overhead press a little more and back off a little on bench to let it recover a little more. You will end up seeing the strength increase some from bigger front delts when you start focusing back in harder on chest work.
Another option would be to simply cut one set off of close grip, and one off of Incline bench to allow for more recovery if strength is your focus.
Another option would be moving to 10ish reps for a little bit on bench to grow some new muscle then come back to lower volume with bigger pecs and end up benching more after a meso or so back in the 5 rep range. You shouldn't just keep plowing away at something that isn't responding well. You should change the approach just enough to get the intended results over a period of time.
Dustin07
Legend
I don't think I fully follow cause it looks to me like the previous session was 20 reps, and this session was 20 reps.
previous session was a top set of 6, and this session was a top set of 8? seems like solid progress to me?
i was thinking the same thing. my knee jerk reaction when I saw the same weight (225) with increased reps I know for me at one point I questioned my conditioning. If I'm always training 3-5 reps for strength *should I condition myself for 10 reps?* so that's what I did. 205 x 10 this week, 210 for 10 next week, and so on until I hit my target 225 x 10. It was semi linear actually with a stall at 220 for a month but then I broke through.
now days focused back to upper end strength I'm back to training triples or more, but it's nice falling back into the pocket and seeing 225 as a rep out zone rather than a training zone after nearly a year of hammering away at it.
MrKleen73
Legend
I think he is referring to the fact that for the last several weeks he has not been able to break more than a total of 25 reps @225, which he hit weeks ago. So his total volume on that lift is stagnant and the session you are comparing the 20 reps to was one of his lower intensity sessions or at least lower volume and performance for whatever reason. However that being the case he also added in extra chest volume by adding in the incline bench, and close grip bench, and then adding a set to them. So the volume of work for his chest and anterior delt has increased even though the volume of that lift has not. So if he wants to drive that specific lift volume needs to come from somewhere else to allow him the recovery needed to keep things moving along. Very similar to what you did when you started focusing on reps at 225 and less in the 3-5 range. Then you grew more boobies from the added volume, and came back to put those bigger chesticles to work moving more weight. It's quite the dance trying to keep things moving either via hypertrophy, or strength.
Dustin07
Legend
I DID grow some boobies, definitely a plus in the last year
aside from the weird hint of gyno that seems to only rear its head every other day
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Thanks guys. All good points and input.
The goals right now is bench strength and delt/arm growth. But, I think I need to back up on bench a little, so after taking next week off, I'll start back up with 3 sets of 10-12 on everything.
The goals right now is bench strength and delt/arm growth. But, I think I need to back up on bench a little, so after taking next week off, I'll start back up with 3 sets of 10-12 on everything.
MrKleen73
Legend
Give it hell!
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Awful PEM today. Still tried to workout anyway since we leave tomorrow for vacation.
Weight: 219.4 (not sure how I went down from yesterday)
Squats Top Set 5x240
Neutral Grip Pullups
Cable Rows
Reverse Pec Deck
DB Curls
Nothing worth logging. Sick of this PEM.
Weight: 219.4 (not sure how I went down from yesterday)
Squats Top Set 5x240
Neutral Grip Pullups
Cable Rows
Reverse Pec Deck
DB Curls
Nothing worth logging. Sick of this PEM.
Hyde
Legend
10+ unbroken reps on a squat IS repping it out!
Hyde
Legend
Important thing is you went and did some work before the break - now enjoy your vacation!
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Right on. Can't wait to take the family white water rafting. First time for the kids. I'm pumped!
MrKleen73
Legend
Especially if you have any lower back issues. However with the big hit on the oxygen consumption of squats 10 reps is brutal unless not that challenging. I just think of things like 15-20 reps or Widow Makers as repping it out. Just old school bodybuilding thought process. 8-12 Hypertrophy, and 15+ considered high rep. Of course we all know now that the hypertrophy rep and loading range is much larger than originally thought.
Agreed!
Oh man, that is going to be so much fun!!! You might need to rest from your vacation when you get back.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Oh yeah...whitewater rafting, few days at Dollywood, few days at Cedar Point, and a couple days driving in between. "Vacation deload" the following weekEspecially if you have any lower back issues. However with the big hit on the oxygen consumption of squats 10 reps is brutal unless not that challenging. I just think of things like 15-20 reps or Widow Makers as repping it out. Just old school bodybuilding thought process. 8-12 Hypertrophy, and 15+ considered high rep. Of course we all know now that the hypertrophy rep and loading range is much larger than originally thought.
Agreed!
Oh man, that is going to be so much fun!!! You might need to rest from your vacation when you get back.
Hyde
Legend
Oh yeah...whitewater rafting, few days at Dollywood, few days at Cedar Point, and a couple days driving in between. "Vacation deload" the following week
It’s a real thing for me!
Dustin07
Legend
Whenever I'm "training" a 10 rep set for whatever reason, I ALWAYS find rep 7... at any weight... to be where I start to notice it. I occasionally throw in sets of 20 of this or that for that exact reason. My mentality is that if I can train 20s then 10s shouldn't be such a conditioning challenge.
Jeremyk1
Well-known member
Oh my god I haven’t gone in so long! My aunt used to be a rafting guide, so my dad and sisters and I went a lot when I was younger. Last time I went must have been at least 10 years ago now.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Whitewater rafting was awesome! This trip has been great overall as well, but Cedar Point park operations are at an all time low. Still having a great time though.
Something weird...the first few days while we were in Pigeon Forge (Dollywood and whitewater rafting) slept terrible and felt pretty rough, but since being in Ohio, sleeping great and feeling pretty darn good. Diet has been garbage the whole time, with the only exception eating 200g of berries for breakfast at pigeon forge like I've been doing for months. I've also stopped taking oral b12 and dropped my D3 dose to 5k iu per day with 180mcg k2 mk7. Also, the bed here in Ohio is super soft, but hard and stiff in weird places in pigeon forge. Possibly...it's all been just a mattress problem...
Something weird...the first few days while we were in Pigeon Forge (Dollywood and whitewater rafting) slept terrible and felt pretty rough, but since being in Ohio, sleeping great and feeling pretty darn good. Diet has been garbage the whole time, with the only exception eating 200g of berries for breakfast at pigeon forge like I've been doing for months. I've also stopped taking oral b12 and dropped my D3 dose to 5k iu per day with 180mcg k2 mk7. Also, the bed here in Ohio is super soft, but hard and stiff in weird places in pigeon forge. Possibly...it's all been just a mattress problem...
MrKleen73
Legend
All of those are good observations. Another thing to consider, is that it could just simply be the lack of stress from being off and enjoying yourself, and being active but not beating yourself up. Lowering stress levels over a couple days is likely relieving a lot of the effects of built up stress.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I've considered that also, and haven't ruled it out, but looking back at previous vacations and some still having insomnia and others without, I at least can't trace the pattern as easily. Still a good suggestion though. It'll be interesting to see what happens the week we get back before I start the new position on the 12th...having a week off work at home and start working out again. We'll see what happens.
Edit: Cedar Point park operations were at least mildly better today than the rest of the week, but far more people. Wife and I went without the kids today and it was a blast
For the record, the kids didn't want to go today...we did NOT abandon them lol
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
If it comes down to a mattress, I might dieBro if your troubles come down to a mattress I’m gonna die ☠
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Thanks gentz. We're headed home tomorrow... just a little 10 hour drive, but we do it twice a year so no big deal. Can't wait to get on the scale because I definitely gained some weight!
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I was thinking about this. After doing some pushups with my kids on my back, with how much I weigh and they weigh, I'd like to see where my bench 1rm is. Should I just go for it day 1? Or, ease back in?Time for the AM traditional post vacation PR week lol
The other thought I've had is maybe I really was overtrained/overreaching and it took a few days to get past that. Coupling that with @MrKleen73 idea of just normal day to day stress...?
Hyde
Legend
If it feels good when you’re warming up, go for it! Otherwise, just get some work in.
Hyde
Legend
If it feels good when you’re warming up, go for it! Otherwise, just get some work in.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Weight: 228!
Now I really gotta get serous! Ate garbage the entire time, only making sure to get adequate protein every day for 11 straight days.
Standing OHP 3 x 8 x 115
CG Bench 3 x 12/12/15 x 95
DB Lateral Raise 10x15's, 12x12's, 12x12's
Skullcrushers 3 x 8 x 50
Felt terribly weak, so I backed off everything pretty good, maybe last set was 3rir. Slept fantastic though, so I don't get it, but I usually feel much weaker and sluggish after a week of no training. I'll use these numbers as my base though to work back up, keep my form tighter and try to keep my reps above 8 for a while. On one plus side, my arms were stretching my workout shirt pretty good lol
Now I really gotta get serous!
Ate garbage the entire time, only making sure to get adequate protein every day for 11 straight days. Standing OHP 3 x 8 x 115
CG Bench 3 x 12/12/15 x 95
DB Lateral Raise 10x15's, 12x12's, 12x12's
Skullcrushers 3 x 8 x 50
Felt terribly weak, so I backed off everything pretty good, maybe last set was 3rir. Slept fantastic though, so I don't get it, but I usually feel much weaker and sluggish after a week of no training. I'll use these numbers as my base though to work back up, keep my form tighter and try to keep my reps above 8 for a while. On one plus side, my arms were stretching my workout shirt pretty good lol
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Weight: 226
Squat Top Set 5x235
Neutral Grip Pullup 3 x 3 x BW
BB Shrug 3 x 8 x 155
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 10 x 20
Incline DB Curl 3 x 8/5/5 x 25's
Slept really good last night even after the workout. I'll replicate my supplementation and diet today as I did yesterday with this harder training session (harder defined by RPE) and see if it makes effects my sleep. Going to continue slowly cutting kcal, but have to cut about 5lb by Monday to fit in my dress pants for the new job
Squat Top Set 5x235
Neutral Grip Pullup 3 x 3 x BW
BB Shrug 3 x 8 x 155
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 10 x 20
Incline DB Curl 3 x 8/5/5 x 25's
Slept really good last night even after the workout. I'll replicate my supplementation and diet today as I did yesterday with this harder training session (harder defined by RPE) and see if it makes effects my sleep. Going to continue slowly cutting kcal, but have to cut about 5lb by Monday to fit in my dress pants for the new job
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Weight: 224.3Weight: 226
Squat Top Set 5x235
Neutral Grip Pullup 3 x 3 x BW
BB Shrug 3 x 8 x 155
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 10 x 20
Incline DB Curl 3 x 8/5/5 x 25's
Slept really good last night even after the workout. I'll replicate my supplementation and diet today as I did yesterday with this harder training session (harder defined by RPE) and see if it makes effects my sleep. Going to continue slowly cutting kcal, but have to cut about 5lb by Monday to fit in my dress pants for the new job
Slept terrible and feeling the PEM today. Dropping Weight quickly, so unsure if I cut my kcal/carbs too low and that's why, or just hit it harder then I thought yesterday...or just one of those days. Glad I'm not working.
Edit: after thinking this through a little more...I've suspected fruits and most veggies (and other foods like quinoa) to play a role in my issues (insomnia, 'wired and tired', PEM). If you guys were in my shoes, would you continue to eat those foods for the nutritional benefits like ORAC value and such and suffer the potential consequences, or avoid those foods and not have the same health benefits yet sleep and feel better? In other words, is sleeping and feeling better more important than nutritional impact of food?
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Dustin07
Legend
IDK I hate fruit tbh, there's almost none that I reach for, ever. too sweet for me but I do love vegetables lol
oh wow, profound question there. short term I'd say sleep is more important since our body can do an incredible amount of with whatever nutrition we give it, long term I'd say they're damn near equal.
oh wow, profound question there. short term I'd say sleep is more important since our body can do an incredible amount of with whatever nutrition we give it, long term I'd say they're damn near equal.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Thanks. I really only got on the fruit and vegetable kick the past few years after learning about ORAC and such. I knew about antioxidants, but didn't know there was an actual value to it. But I didn't eat fruits and veggies for 30 years of my life lol.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Mildly, but haven't dug too deep. All I come up with goes back to the COMT mutation that high phenol content inhibits COMT this leaving more dopamine and NE in the system. I have a hard time believing a couple hundred grams of berries does this though.
I talked to him in passing a couple times, but never got too deep. Thanks. Maybe I'll hit him up.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
@sns8778 If you don't mind, do you have any thoughts on this question?
Dustin07
Legend
He has a lot to say based on experience and research but a lot of people tend to want to argue without taking into account his many years of experience in the field, so I don't blame him when he tends to stay on the tip of the iceberg without diving too deep but he might have something to offer here.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
It would be rare for fruits and vegetables to play a role in that, but I know you respond differently to a lot of things, so its definitely possible.
IF it is those contributing, then my thought would be that one can use supplements to supplement for the nutrition missed by not eating enough fruits and vegetables, whereas you can't really substitute anything for quality of sleep. So if it were me, I would go for the improved sleep quality route.
