Building Back Up

[MrKleen73]

weekend water weight lol



you're a tougher guy than me. when it comes to the big three I have to split them into their own days unless its just accessory work. I don't think I can have a good bench day AND squat day in the same session

You are gonna have to get over that to do a PL meet! You have to have a good Squat, then Bench, then Deadlift that day! It's a multiple serving of preworkout kind of deal. Plus nose torque helps!!!! No I am not talking about coke either!

Final review: 3mg Lunesta > 100mg trazodone

On bad nights, I still wake up a few times in both, and able to go back to sleep, but trazodone feels terrible trying to stumble around to the bathroom. Lunesta actually feels cleaner/safer. But, I only have a few Lunesta left for the month.

It's been a few years, but the nightly palpitations are back. Heart rate is fine all day, 60's when resting, but at bed time up to high 70's/low 80's just laying there.

Current supplementation:

5k iu D3
500mg vit C (calcium ascorbate) 2x
1g EPA/DHA

Magnesium citrate might be causing frequent waking. Will either skip magnesium today or try magnesium glycinate. Been testing days without any magnesium the last couple weeks but not 100% sure yet.

By palpitations do you mean irregular heartbeat pattern or just faster pulse?

I needed to see this. pulled 465 yesterday and was thinking of making my squat session a bit lighter this weekend to assist in prolonged recovery. I'm changing my mind now. I think your squat is essentially caught up or damn close. I'm going to do everything I can to keep my bench ahead of you and stay on your heels with squats. last one to 1200 is a little girl.

Dang you resolved to give him the squat so easy there. This means go time! I think I am pretty close to you all in numbers right now too. Maybe I should get in on this action!

 

[GreenMachineX]

You are gonna have to get over that to do a PL meet! You have to have a good Squat, then Bench, then Deadlift that day! It's a multiple serving of preworkout kind of deal. Plus nose torque helps!!!! No I am not talking about coke either!
By palpitations do you mean irregular heartbeat pattern or just faster pulse?

Faster pulse and can feel my heart pounding in my chest. It's rather uncomfortable.

Dang you resolved to give him the squat so easy there. This means go time! I think I am pretty close to you all in numbers right now too. Maybe I should get in on this action!

Right on!

 

[Dustin07]

Let go! BTW are you using anything specific for how you program your workouts? Percentages plus extra volume, just what you feel like, etc?

Sorta different for each lift. But generally speaking, pounding way in the 80% region with a mixture of 10s and 3-5s (on different days) until they approach a stall, then chasing new 1rm, then resetting the 80%. That's worked well the past 6-8 months with a couple PRs sprinkled in along the way.

last bench was 3 x 10 at PR weight. so today I'll do 3-5rep pauses and next week attempt 10s at 225 again which would be a PR (few weeks ago I got 9 + 1 assisted so I'm damn close to 10 at 225).

Squats only respond well with 10 rep sessions which I absolutely hate, it takes everything out of me, strains my face to make me look 10 years older but it works... Deads.. my deficits are working really well because now I'm pulling off the ground faster than lock out which is opposite my usual, so I'm working deficits and rack pulls in more frequently. the only reason I PR'd this week was cause my buddy pressured me into the attempt... I was going to do all my work 70lbs lower lol.

You are gonna have to get over that to do a PL meet! You have to have a good Squat, then Bench, then Deadlift that day! It's a multiple serving of preworkout kind of deal. Plus nose torque helps!!!! No I am not talking about coke either!
By palpitations do you mean irregular heartbeat pattern or just faster pulse?


Dang you resolved to give him the squat so easy there. This means go time! I think I am pretty close to you all in numbers right now too. Maybe I should get in on this action!

haha any recommendations on the nose torque? my buddy and I were just discussing that this week.
And I totally agree with you. My long term goal is once I know I have my 500/400/300 in the bag to have a "meet" day at the gym where I try to hit all three the same day. If I pull that off, maybe I'll sign up for a local meet. In my weight class I don't stand a chance and I told my buddy I won't compete with a bench sub 300 anyways, but if I pull over 500 in a meet at sub 190lbs I'll be extremely happy even if I'm last place because at the end of the day it's 500 f'ing pounds and IDGAF

 

[MrKleen73]

Faster pulse and can feel my heart pounding in my chest. It's rather uncomfortable.


Right on!

Okay, yeah I have experienced the feeling before, but normally only if I get anxious for some reason. Sometimes I can doing some clearing and relaxing breaths and get it to subside a bit.

WooHoo! Count me in.

haha any recommendations on the nose torque? my buddy and I were just discussing that this week.
And I totally agree with you. My long term goal is once I know I have my 500/400/300 in the bag to have a "meet" day at the gym where I try to hit all three the same day. If I pull that off, maybe I'll sign up for a local meet. In my weight class I don't stand a chance and I told my buddy I won't compete with a bench sub 300 anyways, but if I pull over 500 in a meet at sub 190lbs I'll be extremely happy even if I'm last place because at the end of the day it's 500 f'ing pounds and IDGAF

I think the one I used was called WAKE UP MOTHER F*CKER! I honestly don't know if there is too much difference between brands, it is just ammonia but I could be wrong. I will have to get some later this year when things start to get real.

 

[MrKleen73]

@Dustin07 I forgot to tell you, no reason to hold yourself to an arbitrarily set weight of 300lbs on bench. Their are plenty of people in your weight class that enjoy competing and can't push 300 yet. Unless a true top tier contender in the weight class you are only there to compete against yourself. If PL is interesting to you and chasing a goal is motivating then just pick a meet and then do your best to peak correctly for it. Set a baseline total and keep on striving to beat it. A PL Meet is very rewarding, and a lot more friendly than a bodybuilding competition. You will make friends, learn a few things and possibly end up with some occasional training buddies who know what they are doing. Definitely no need or benefit to waiting until you can press 300. Of course that is just my opinion but I value it.

 

[GreenMachineX]

@Dustin07 I forgot to tell you, no reason to hold yourself to an arbitrarily set weight of 300lbs on bench. Their are plenty of people in your weight class that enjoy competing and can't push 300 yet. Unless a true top tier contender in the weight class you are only there to compete against yourself. If PL is interesting to you and chasing a goal is motivating then just pick a meet and then do your best to peak correctly for it. Set a baseline total and keep on striving to beat it. A PL Meet is very rewarding, and a lot more friendly than a bodybuilding competition. You will make friends, learn a few things and possibly end up with some occasional training buddies who know what they are doing. Definitely no need or benefit to waiting until you can press 300. Of course that is just my opinion but I value it.

I've thought about this before. I guess the way I view a competition would be if only I had a chance of placing top 3 or whatever, otherwise, if I was just competing against myself, I'd just go by my lifts in the gym. But, that's just me.

 

[MrKleen73]

I've thought about this before. I guess the way I view a competition would be if only I had a chance of placing top 3 or whatever, otherwise, if I was just competing against myself, I'd just go by my lifts in the gym. But, that's just me.

I understand that mentality, but if the action of competing is fun and alluring to you, then the meet will be a lot of fun. Plus just something about having an official total. I went into my meet thinking I would likely not place. Made it a lot of fun then was even more fun when I won it. Another thing is if you go in to a smaller federation like RPS or something you will have a lot better chance of placing. When you get into the bigger federations are where the numbers start getting ridiculous, but I am sure just as if not more rewarding.

 

[Dustin07]

I've thought about this before. I guess the way I view a competition would be if only I had a chance of placing top 3 or whatever, otherwise, if I was just competing against myself, I'd just go by my lifts in the gym. But, that's just me.

I understand that mentality, but if the action of competing is fun and alluring to you, then the meet will be a lot of fun. Plus just something about having an official total. I went into my meet thinking I would likely not place. Made it a lot of fun then was even more fun when I won it. Another thing is if you go in to a smaller federation like RPS or something you will have a lot better chance of placing. When you get into the bigger federations are where the numbers start getting ridiculous, but I am sure just as if not more rewarding.

Probably a habit of mine going back to my first year wrestling in high school. Coach said he'd find out whatever the competition was doing and he'd make sure he was doing that +more so that when meet day came, he would win. He still holds the record for most state champions out here at the H.S. level... so I do from time to time look at the PL results from local meets to see how I'd do. I have done well enough in the past with other things like a state softball team, and podium finishes a few times with xfit etc so for me it's more like what do I have to do for that podium.

And I say that knowing that I could go into the competition in first place and still walk away in 5th because a competitor had a great day and I had a subpar day for whatever reason. But typically when I walked into a competition my mentality was "the winner has already been decided. The winner earned that spot over the last 12-36 months of prep and we are just here to find out who it is" That mentality would calm my nerves, allow me to have more fun in the competition, and probably even do better because my arrogance was full bore and my fear was zero.

 

[Hyde]

I think the one I used was called WAKE UP MOTHER F*CKER! I honestly don't know if there is too much difference between brands, it is just ammonia but I could be wrong. I will have to get some later this year when things start to get real.

Most of them aren’t too different so price should be a factor. The OG brand Nose Tork actually leaks a lot, so I don’t recommend it anymore. I have had a lot of positive experience with Skull Smash brand ammonias,
as well as Cerberus and Zone.

I always tell people the one to avoid is Ahhhh!!! by Juji Mufu. I love Juji’s content and grip brand, but that is the only salts I’ve ever tried that genuinely completely messed me up to the point of being a total detriment. Radically overpowered. Kind of knocked me out, and it wasn’t like I put my nose in the bottle, just a whiff.

@Dustin07 I forgot to tell you, no reason to hold yourself to an arbitrarily set weight of 300lbs on bench. Their are plenty of people in your weight class that enjoy competing and can't push 300 yet. Unless a true top tier contender in the weight class you are only there to compete against yourself. If PL is interesting to you and chasing a goal is motivating then just pick a meet and then do your best to peak correctly for it. Set a baseline total and keep on striving to beat it. A PL Meet is very rewarding, and a lot more friendly than a bodybuilding competition. You will make friends, learn a few things and possibly end up with some occasional training buddies who know what they are doing. Definitely no need or benefit to waiting until you can press 300. Of course that is just my opinion but I value it.

Heartily agree. It’s usually a very welcoming community, especially if you tell people it’s your first meet they will often try to help you or give tips.

I've thought about this before. I guess the way I view a competition would be if only I had a chance of placing top 3 or whatever, otherwise, if I was just competing against myself, I'd just go by my lifts in the gym. But, that's just me.

Who wins is purely based on who shows up. Competing is about putting yourself out there & lifting to a standard.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yep, I will stay away from Aaaagh!!! I might try it for free just to see what it was about away from a meet but sounds like a bad idea at the meet for sure!

 

[Dustin07]

Most of them aren’t too different so price should be a factor. The OG brand Nose Tork actually leaks a lot, so I don’t recommend it anymore. I have had a lot of positive experience with Skull Smash brand ammonias,
as well as Cerberus and Zone.

I always tell people the one to avoid is Ahhhh!!! by Juji Mufu. I love Juji’s content and grip brand, but that is the only salts I’ve ever tried that genuinely completely messed me up to the point of being a total detriment. Radically overpowered. Kind of knocked me out, and it wasn’t like I put my nose in the bottle, just a whiff.



Heartily agree. It’s usually a very welcoming community, especially if you tell people it’s your first meet they will often try to help you or give tips.



Who wins is purely based on who shows up. Competing is about putting yourself out there & lifting to a standard.

Yep, I will stay away from Aaaagh!!! I might try it for free just to see what it was about away from a meet but sounds like a bad idea at the meet for sure!

What's your typical protocol for inhalants? only use at peak for new 1rm attempts? I looked up the skull smash and they have like 20 formulas so i'll be digging in further

 

[Hyde]

What's your typical protocol for inhalants? only use at peak for new 1rm attempts? I looked up the skull smash and they have like 20 formulas so i'll be digging in further

I try to save them for times when I need maximum arousal to accomplish a goal. So at a meet, I often skip it my first attempt as that is more of a last warmup/stay in the meet, then use it on my second & third. In training I try to avoid it, although I will use it some on max effort days sometimes. Like I have the last 2 max effort bench days on my PR attempt because I really needed the boost to go after what I was chasing.

I try to avoid it for squats and deads in training because what it can push me to accomplish will often represent an inroads to recovery. But in a peaking block, that is fine - the point is to overexert with specificity, then taper down to recover by the comp. I specifically avoided it last night because I was trying to stay well within my means.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Deadlift Top Set 3x355
Standing OH Press 5x95, 5x115, 5x135, 3x155
Assisted Pullup (don't remember or care)
Close Grip Bench 12x95, 10x135
BB Shrug 4x8x135
DB Lateral Raise 3x12x8's

Slept great all weekend...Saturday was the best sleep I had in a year. Then, last night, probably the worst I've had in a while. Felt like I was sleeping through a caffeine rush. So, today's Workout was almost pointless. Tried to at least hit one top intense set or get plenty of volume with lighter weight. Whatever.

Doctor appt tomorrow. Going to try to get a better sleep aid I can take every night that works better then trazodone. 50mg trazodone obviously didn't work last night.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Update: Saw my doctor and got a 500mcg cyanocobalamin b12 injection. Another shot in 2 weeks. Also got a nightly script for lunesta. Yay!

Also figured out the PEM is (mot likely) unrelated to sleep quality/quantity. I slept great last night and still have PEM today.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Today's WO:

BB Bench 3 x 8, 8, 7 x 185
Incline Machine Press 3 x 10, 10, 12 x 90
BB Row 12x95, 3 x 10 x 135
Cable Upright Row 3 x 10 x 35
Long Rope Cable Pressdown 2 x 8 x 30
Cable Shrug 3 x 8 x 35

Felt weak and run down most likely from cutting kcal so hard, but also messed up sleep again. Lightened everything and skipped squats. Maybe i need a true deload.

Question on overtraining...does it always result in fat gain and muscle loss? I'm obviously stronger then I was 6 months ago, but I was sleeping so much better back then vs. now.

 

[Dustin07]

Question on overtraining...does it always result in fat gain and muscle loss? I'm obviously stronger then I was 6 months ago, but I was sleeping so much better back then vs. now.

I think the term overtrained is too grey and maybe overused. I think it's sorta worth walking away from to better identify what's going on. I overtrained for a decade and I was absolutely shredded. But at 178lbs I wasn't benching or deadlifting what I can now. I could do 1 mile sprints in 6 flat though and ring muscle ups etc.

I think what is appropriate terminology is under recovered.
In theory there is the stress > cortisol relationship but I don't think what's going on with you is overtraining yet.

Again I don't think you can train yourself into getting excess fat, but you can under recover muscle and there's catabolism but I don't think your training is currently anywhere near that.

 

[Dustin07]

but I was sleeping so much better back then vs. now.

I think you sorta answered the question there the same way I did lol.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I think you sorta answered the question there the same way I did lol.

I'm just trying to figure out the reason for the poor sleep.

 

[Dustin07]

You have me really really wanting to dig deeper into cns vs muscular fatigue and learn more about this. There are things I "know" from experience but don't know why I know them. I guess sorta like you, I want to see if things like this week where deads felt heavier and bench fell a little short of my goal, is it related to last weeks deadlift PR? For you of course, you're looking to see if it's sleep that's effected but either way it looks like I'm going into a cns rabbit hole now.

there are some interesting studies here although I'm not sure they're all valid for highly trained individuals
Invalid Link Removed

 

[Dustin07]

what up homie, no weekend lifting?

 

[GreenMachineX]

what up homie, no weekend lifting?

Nah, I'm still on only twice per week lifting. I really want to *know* the PEM is over before I bump up frequency or anything. I'm itching to get to 4 days per week because I enjoy doing less per workout but the week allow me to get my total volume up to par as well. 4 exercise of 4 sets each let's me get in and get out faster, but 6 exercises of 3-4 sets each takes forever.

Nevertheless, I'm pumped for today's training. I'm relooking at the Stronger By Science Hypertrophy programs and will use that to base my bench and overhead pressing on. It'll be 3 sets of a given rep count, followed by a last set rep out with a target goal. The one thing I'm confused on is the "overwarm single" in the program, but I've asked in the subreddit so just waiting on a reply for now. If i don't get the reply before training, I'll just skip that since it's not completely necessary.

Slept great last night, so should be great training today. Thanks for asking though.

 

[GreenMachineX]

You have me really really wanting to dig deeper into cns vs muscular fatigue and learn more about this. There are things I "know" from experience but don't know why I know them. I guess sorta like you, I want to see if things like this week where deads felt heavier and bench fell a little short of my goal, is it related to last weeks deadlift PR? For you of course, you're looking to see if it's sleep that's effected but either way it looks like I'm going into a cns rabbit hole now.

there are some interesting studies here although I'm not sure they're all valid for highly trained individuals
Invalid Link Removed

Thanks for this. Yeah, I doubt I'm overtraining. Just grasping for straws or whatever the phrase is. I gotta just man up

 

[Dustin07]

Nevertheless, I'm pumped for today's training. I'm relooking at the Stronger By Science Hypertrophy programs and will use that to base my bench and overhead pressing on. It'll be 3 sets of a given rep count, followed by a last set rep out with a target goal. The one thing I'm confused on is the "overwarm single" in the program, but I've asked in the subreddit so just waiting on a reply for now. If i don't get the reply before training, I'll just skip that since it's not completely necessary.

Right on man!

Yeah, I doubt I'm overtraining. Just grasping for straws or whatever the phrase is. I gotta just man up

Good days and bad days man. been listening to Dave Tates podcast lately and had my boy listening yesterday. probably too many f bombs to qualify me as a good dad but Dave was talking about those recovery modalities and asking about guys taking breaks cause they need them or if they need to man the F up and just go do the work on days they don't feel great lol. I probably am not translating what he said perfectly but it felt relatable to me.

It's like... I find myself treating every single training session like it's a competition day. I literally plan my food, my sleep, my day, my mentality etc around my training sessions... I've done that for years. I think there is some benefit to it but I'd probably also benefit from chilling the F out at some point and just showing up and enjoying the process more

but then again, the only time in my entire life I ever lost a squat forward was after a day of golfing in sub 40f temps. I was exhausted and said well it's squat day so I gotta go in. so maybe that's proof that it was a bad idea. so today for instance I'm golfing and i'm taking it as a fasting day until dinner and putting off my squat session until tomorrow. Although all morning I've been contemplating tuesday squats, weds back to let my chest /tri/shoulders rest from Sundays session, then I gotta figure out thursday and friday for a deadlift and bench session so probably won't get my rest day this week it's all such juggling but man I love it and I love the momentum.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Right on man!



Good days and bad days man. been listening to Dave Tates podcast lately and had my boy listening yesterday. probably too many f bombs to qualify me as a good dad but Dave was talking about those recovery modalities and asking about guys taking breaks cause they need them or if they need to man the F up and just go do the work on days they don't feel great lol. I probably am not translating what he said perfectly but it felt relatable to me.

It's like... I find myself treating every single training session like it's a competition day. I literally plan my food, my sleep, my day, my mentality etc around my training sessions... I've done that for years. I think there is some benefit to it but I'd probably also benefit from chilling the F out at some point and just showing up and enjoying the process more

but then again, the only time in my entire life I ever lost a squat forward was after a day of golfing in sub 40f temps. I was exhausted and said well it's squat day so I gotta go in. so maybe that's proof that it was a bad idea. so today for instance I'm golfing and i'm taking it as a fasting day until dinner and putting off my squat session until tomorrow. Although all morning I've been contemplating tuesday squats, weds back to let my chest /tri/shoulders rest from Sundays session, then I gotta figure out thursday and friday for a deadlift and bench session so probably won't get my rest day this week it's all such juggling but man I love it and I love the momentum.

I know exactly what you mean regarding planning life around lifts...but these days I also plan my training around when I want to feel good because of the PEM, so no training on Fridays.

But i think I missed your point...are you saying your a fan of just manning up and hitting it? I'm not sure I understand by the end

 

[GreenMachineX]

Standing OH Press 4 x 10, 10, 10, 8 x 115
Deadlift Top Set 6 x 325
Close Grip Bench 4 x 12, 12, 12, 8 x 115
Neutral Grip Assisted Pullup (don't remember)
BB Shrug 10x135, 8x155, 8x175
DB Lateral Raise 3 x 12 x 12's

Already messed up the new SBS Hypertrophy program. I realized afterwards that when I enter my max, it's a training max, not true max, so I wasn't able to hit the last set AMRAP target on overhead press and close grip bench. Oh well. I think for DL I start using the 5/3/1 approach since it's low volume and really only one hard set. Pretty good training session though.

 

[Dustin07]

Man I always do really well on 531 for two cycles then get hammered. Ironically it's the high volume amraps that I think crush me!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Man I always do really well on 531 for two cycles then get hammered. Ironically it's the high volume amraps that I think crush me!

Lol I'm hoping I do fine with it.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Man I always do really well on 531 for two cycles then get hammered. Ironically it's the high volume amraps that I think crush me!

When you've run 531, do you calculate the percentages from your true max, or do you use the 90% "training max" to calculate the working percentages? Anytime I've tried this, I've always balked at the idea of the 90% training max idea, but after yesterday, I think it's time I do it as prescribed.

For example, my true max is around 415 most likely. I did 405 a couple weeks ago and know I could've done more. According to the program, I should've done 310 for the 5+ AMRAP. I was above it yesterday when I did my amrap because I didn't plan on doing this program until rep 3, and was like "let's see what happens if I amrap this!" Then figured out I may as well do 531 lol.

 

[Dustin07]

For example, my true max is around 415 most likely. I did 405 a couple weeks ago and know I could've done more. According to the program, I should've done 310 for the 5+ AMRAP. I was above it yesterday when I did my amrap because I didn't plan on doing this program until rep 3, and was like "let's see what happens if I amrap this!" Then figured out I may as well do 531 lol.

I started using the app a few years ago and ran it maybe a half dozen times for 2 cycle intervals because on the 3rd cycle I always fell on my face. using the app you punch in your true 1rm IIRC and then it calculates based on 90% of that. so it maths out correct to Wendler's ideology. However I would find that all the sudden I'm doing like 13+ rep sets on a 275 squat or a 365 deadlift when I had a 1rm of like 330/430 so it was just getting nuts. I'm sure the AMRAPS were great in a different way but it didn't really taper me into a true new 1rm using the app. It just always cycled me into amrap PRs until I was trashed and needed a month of recovery.

I think if I took 2 weeks off, started up a 531 cycle again and really though about my approach I could taper it better and probably on the 1+ week instead of amrap'ing go for the new PR. But then again.. IDK cause each week is brutal with a real amrap, especially if you throw in joker sets. it beat me up as bad as smolov jr did for squats.

 

[Dustin07]

But i think I missed your point...are you saying your a fan of just manning up and hitting it? I'm not sure I understand by the end

I don't think we can find our balance until we've pushed the limit a few too many times.
Since specific goals within each training session are really important to me I knew yesterday was not a good day to go in and attempt a squat session after 5hrs of golf in 37F temps. But I carb loaded like crazy at dinner to help prep me for my next session and even if I don't feel like lifting, I know that I have to go after my goals because I'm now rested, fed, and ready with a plan. So whether or not I want to squat today, I'm gonna man up and go for it because I've done the planning and prep work and now I have to do the hard work.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I started using the app a few years ago and ran it maybe a half dozen times for 2 cycle intervals because on the 3rd cycle I always fell on my face. using the app you punch in your true 1rm IIRC and then it calculates based on 90% of that. so it maths out correct to Wendler's ideology. However I would find that all the sudden I'm doing like 13+ rep sets on a 275 squat or a 365 deadlift when I had a 1rm of like 330/430 so it was just getting nuts. I'm sure the AMRAPS were great in a different way but it didn't really taper me into a true new 1rm using the app. It just always cycled me into amrap PRs until I was trashed and needed a month of recovery.

I think if I took 2 weeks off, started up a 531 cycle again and really though about my approach I could taper it better and probably on the 1+ week instead of amrap'ing go for the new PR. But then again.. IDK cause each week is brutal with a real amrap, especially if you throw in joker sets. it beat me up as bad as smolov jr did for squats.

Which app exactly? I just searched and there's like 10 unofficial apps, none appear to be official.

 

[Dustin07]

Which app exactly? I just searched and there's like 10 unofficial apps, none appear to be official.

mine looks like this (not my screen shot, stole it from the google)

Invalid Link Removed

 

[MrKleen73]

Man I always do really well on 531 for two cycles then get hammered. Ironically it's the high volume amraps that I think crush me!

@Dustin07 I have read that for many people even the 90% training max is starting a little too high. I know it was for me it destroyed me.

Also how long ago were the 5/3/1 attempts you did? If pretty close to when you were doing a lot of Crossfit you probably had so much strength endurance built up it was out of character for your average PL'r and with the rep scheme close to what your body was used to training you were able to eek out a lot more reps than you or the people writing the program expected. If it has been a while you might find you start failing at lower reps since you aren't just a mitochondria machine like you were closer to the crossfit training. Just a thought.

 

[Hyde]

An overwarmup single is simply working up heavier than the intended work weight for the day, typically by about 10%, to prime the nervous system and harness post-activation potentiation (PAP).

If you are going to bench your work sets at 185, efficiently work up to 205x1, drop the load to 185, and do your volume work after an appropriate rest. You end up being able to accomplish a little more volume at the work weight than if you hadn’t lifted the heavier weight first, paradoxically. The cost in extra energy for the overwarmup is more than compensated for by the increased efficiency in motor pattern recruitment.

They’re also a great fun way to get to feel a little “stronger” while in a volume/accumulation block.

 

[Hyde]

Also, 531 is great for squats and deadlifts for me. And also, 90% of your real max is indeed very heavy. The stronger you become the more your strength can fluctuate. Wendler has had advanced guys get much stronger using as low as 70-75% of their real max. It’s going to be recovery and peak strength dependent, but the takeaway is you actually want to use the lowest % possible that is still productive. Overdoing the weight will actually make you progress slower.

I have found gains even having AMRAPs as high as 12-13 on squats, because the volume is specific to building muscle where you need it for a bigger squat. Deadlifts I don’t really like to go over 10 reps. So essentially, I try to just pick a training max that calculates out to a weight I think I can currently do for 9-10 on the 5+ weeks. The number is solely based on that. Bench I try for 8 reps because I have found that needs to be heavier, but in general 5/3/1 isn’t enough volume at all for bench or pressing for me so the progress always hinges on the rest of the programming (secondary movements and total accessory volume, plus diet and drugs).

 

[Dustin07]

@Dustin07 I have read that for many people even the 90% training max is starting a little too high. I know it was for me it destroyed me.

Also how long ago were the 5/3/1 attempts you did? If pretty close to when you were doing a lot of Crossfit you probably had so much strength endurance built up it was out of character for your average PL'r and with the rep scheme close to what your body was used to training you were able to eek out a lot more reps than you or the people writing the program expected. If it has been a while you might find you start failing at lower reps since you aren't just a mitochondria machine like you were closer to the crossfit training. Just a thought.

serious xfit training was probably until 2017/2018 and then 531 would have started around that time so you might be on to something there. But if you look at my bench numbers now I'm training for a 225 x 10 because in my head its an important PR. It will have some carry over to a new 1rm but I don't think it will automagically give me the calculated 306lb bench.

My mind is still blown by how difficult it is to find the right volume at the right weight, to make the 1rep go up. personally, after I hit my 225 for 10 and the box on that PR, I plan to immediately shift my attack to heavy sets of 3 on bench and slamming through 3 plates. the upside to volume is hypertrophy and I'm starting to grope my boobs more than my wife's now days.

An overwarmup single is simply working up heavier than the intended work weight for the day, typically by about 10%, to prime the nervous system and harness post-activation potentiation (PAP).

If you are going to bench your work sets at 185, efficiently work up to 205x1, drop the load to 185, and do your volume work after an appropriate rest. You end up being able to accomplish a little more volume at the work weight than if you hadn’t lifted the heavier weight first, paradoxically. The cost in extra energy for the overwarmup is more than compensated for by the increased efficiency in motor pattern recruitment.

They’re also a great fun way to get to feel a little “stronger” while in a volume/accumulation block.

I love how eloquently you can say that 185lbs feels lighter after you've done 205.
I've always liked backing off for my set of 10 on squats after testing a heavy single for this very reason but I never contemplated the science behind it. now I'm going to be thinking about this every time. I might even hit 240 x 1 before I attempt my 225 x 10 idk.

 

[Dustin07]

I have found gains even having AMRAPs as high as 12-13 on squats, because the volume is specific to building muscle where you need it for a bigger squat. Deadlifts I don’t really like to go over 10 reps. So essentially, I try to just pick a training max that calculates out to a weight I think I can currently do for 9-10 on the 5+ weeks. The number is solely based on that. Bench I try for 8 reps because I have found that needs to be heavier, but in general 5/3/1 isn’t enough volume at all for bench or pressing for me so the progress always hinges on the rest of the programming (secondary movements and total accessory volume, plus diet and drugs).

did you also throw in the joker sets and bbb stuff? If I was hitting a 225 x 5+ for instance on bbb and the RX'd 5 x 10 was like 95 or 115lbs I usually went 135lbs-155 or some thing like that because 95lbs x 5 x 10 is not much more than a pillow fight.

I will say this about deads......... over the years I did grow to appreciate lower reps for safety, recovery, everything. But there is still something about pounding out a 21 x 225 that grows a thick mane of hair on my chest. Feels incredibly good.

 

[Hyde]

did you also throw in the joker sets and bbb stuff? If I was hitting a 225 x 5+ for instance on bbb and the RX'd 5 x 10 was like 95 or 115lbs I usually went 135lbs-155 or some thing like that because 95lbs x 5 x 10 is not much more than a pillow fight.

I will say this about deads......... over the years I did grow to appreciate lower reps for safety, recovery, everything. But there is still something about pounding out a 21 x 225 that grows a thick mane of hair on my chest. Feels incredibly good.

I think Joker Sets are one of the worst things Jim ever introduced, because of the target population’s general ignorance. Most people who use 5/3/1 have no concept of how sparingly & when they should be implemented, so you get all these bozos testing their bench max every other week instead of making any progress.

BBB is more for novices or anyone looking to (re)build a base of size. It does not scale well with more advanced strength & mileage. Gym has discussed this in his books, and recommends some guys going down as low as 3-4x10 at 40% to help accommodate that curve. Someone deadlifting 630 isn’t going to get nearly as much 1RM progress out of doing 5x10 at 315 as someone pulling 405 will doing 5x10 at 205. Plus it really is boring AF.

 

[Dustin07]

BBB is more for novices or anyone looking to (re)build a base of size. It does not scale well with more advanced strength & mileage. Gym has discussed this in his books, and recommends some guys going down as low as 3-4x10 at 40% to help accommodate that curve. Someone deadlifting 630 isn’t going to get nearly as much 1RM progress out of doing 5x10 at 315 as someone pulling 405 will doing 5x10 at 205. Plus it really is boring AF.

another thought I have on that is the time investment. I was just listening to a podcast Dave Tate did with Jim and IIRC they were talking about weaknesses... such as if your triceps are your weakness (probably are on bench) then you should hammer them. maybe a better use of that 5 x 10 time would be cgbp, dips, or some other tricep centric effort....?

 

[Hyde]

another thought I have on that is the time investment. I was just listening to a podcast Dave Tate did with Jim and IIRC they were talking about weaknesses... such as if your triceps are your weakness (probably are on bench) then you should hammer them. maybe a better use of that 5 x 10 time would be cgbp, dips, or some other tricep centric effort....?

Bingo. 5x10 weighted glute ham raises would cost a lot less recovery toll for that 630 deadlifter, while more directly addressing a specific weakness.

Or in your case, 5x10 frontsquats or SSB squats for more quad hypertrophy focus would make more sense than additional lowbar squatting for so much volume. The fact you will need less absolute weight for the fronts or yoke bar work is actually a blessing for recovery.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 217.4

Workout:

BB Bench 4 x 10, 10, 10, 7 x 175
Incline Machine Press 10x90, 8x110, 8x130
BB Row 12x95, 3x10x115
BB Squat Top Set 5x215
Cable Upright Row 3x10x42.5
Double Cable Pressdown 3x10x30
DB Curl 3x10x20's

Cutting my kcal has really hurt my performance, but I gotta lose weight. Pants are getting hard to fit

 

[Dustin07]

Cutting my kcal has really hurt my performance, but I gotta lose weight. Pants are getting hard to fit

been there


so you're doing 2 a week right now monitoring Post-exertional malaise , right?
You're getting 7 different movements in, how long are your sessions?
I really struggle to get 6 movements in because it would take me 90 minutes and I'd be completely gassed by the end.

What would happen if you cut those training days in half and added a third one per week?

Like what if you carb loaded and ONLY squatted today. rest tomorrow. carb loaded and ONLY benched the next day?

the only thing I did monday was squat and it absolutely tore me up.
Today you saw my deadlift workout. only 2 accessories and that tore me up even though it was deload weights.

 

[GreenMachineX]

been there


so you're doing 2 a week right now monitoring Post-exertional malaise , right?
You're getting 7 different movements in, how long are your sessions?
I really struggle to get 6 movements in because it would take me 90 minutes and I'd be completely gassed by the end.

What would happen if you cut those training days in half and added a third one per week?

Like what if you carb loaded and ONLY squatted today. rest tomorrow. carb loaded and ONLY benched the next day?

the only thing I did monday was squat and it absolutely tore me up.
Today you saw my deadlift workout. only 2 accessories and that tore me up even though it was deload weights.

Yeah, I've been considering this. I need to test it again. I'm back and forth on it, and tentatively planning to not change much until I get a couple more b12 shots and get my testosterone retested. But, I don't know. Maybe I'll try it out Monday. I'd like to do Upper Push Day 1, and deads or squats with upper pull day 2.

 

[Dustin07]

yeah I get it, you want to be confident in your ability to do the thing that effects your confidence sorta. Hammering yourself into the ground only works if it makes you come back stronger rather than feeling like **** for 2 weeks.

I went from 6 days a week of 2 a days
to 6 days a week
to 4-5 days a week
to now I'm self regulating and I like 2 on 1 off, but I'm also not above doing 1 on 1 off every day of the week if that's where I am. I don't want to miss more than 1 or 2 days but like if squats tear me up and tomorrows bench session is an important heavy day for me I'll totally take the break and eat so that my training is on par.

 

[GreenMachineX]

yeah I get it, you want to be confident in your ability to do the thing that effects your confidence sorta. Hammering yourself into the ground only works if it makes you come back stronger rather than feeling like **** for 2 weeks.

I went from 6 days a week of 2 a days
to 6 days a week
to 4-5 days a week
to now I'm self regulating and I like 2 on 1 off, but I'm also not above doing 1 on 1 off every day of the week if that's where I am. I don't want to miss more than 1 or 2 days but like if squats tear me up and tomorrows bench session is an important heavy day for me I'll totally take the break and eat so that my training is on par.

Exactly. I also meant to say earlier that my workouts take 70 minutes from first set to last if i sandbag squats. I've wondered if that's too much. I'm going to have to break it up soon.

 

[Dustin07]

Exactly. I also meant to say earlier that my workouts take 70 minutes from first set to last if i sandbag squats. I've wondered if that's too much. I'm going to have to break it up soon.

My workouts are usually 60+ on fast days but only doing half what you do since I break up bench and squat on different days

Lifting with my buddy my sessions have been super fast but I can lose 70-90minutes on a weekend session solo with headphones on

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 216.8

Broke the 217 barrier. Invalid Link Removed


But, I've been hit with major PEM and woke up a bunch last night.

 

[MrKleen73]

OMG! Love that picture for that! Congrats on the drop in weight, and sucks on the PEM.

I had been thinking the same thing regarding breaking up your full body sessions. I think I mentioned it in here a while back that a split might be less stressful to your system than pushing your entire body hard in one day. I just don't know too much about PEM but seems breaking the big lifts up would be easier on the CNS which I assume would be easier on the PEM if CNS related.

 

[Dustin07]

I had been thinking the same thing regarding breaking up your full body sessions. I think I mentioned it in here a while back that a split might be less stressful to your system than pushing your entire body hard in one day. I just don't know too much about PEM but seems breaking the big lifts up would be easier on the CNS which I assume would be easier on the PEM if CNS related.

yeah sorta break down and reverse engineer things right?
Like we know the value of full body workouts and compound lifts, but if we're trying to rebuild a CNS / PEM response here then maybe shorter more specific movements rather than full body carnage are the way to go until the system can again get used to it.

I mean in the xfit world there was a span of time that rhabdo was a very real risk because all the sudden you introduce ex athletes in grueling full body workouts that they haven't been conditioned for in a decade so now we kill them lol in an 8 minute wod.

 

[GreenMachineX]

OMG! Love that picture for that! Congrats on the drop in weight, and sucks on the PEM.

I had been thinking the same thing regarding breaking up your full body sessions. I think I mentioned it in here a while back that a split might be less stressful to your system than pushing your entire body hard in one day. I just don't know too much about PEM but seems breaking the big lifts up would be easier on the CNS which I assume would be easier on the PEM if CNS related.

Right, I agree that it makes sense, but when I tried it once, I still felt like garbage the next day. I think that one time I did it, I skipped squats and only did very light bb row, so maybe bench, Upright Row and 2 arm exercises is still too much? Sunday or Monday, I'll just do overhead press, close grip bench, Lateral Raise and something for triceps. We'll see.