BREAKING NEWS - FDA TRIES TO CRIMINALIZE SUPPLEMENTS

dsade said:
Archetypes never change.

It's also funny looking at The Fountainhead, and the surfing the entire realm of channels to find that art has, indeed, been destroyed. The ugly and stupid is proclaimed genius - or at least given the rewards and recognition previously reserved for genius.
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So true! I just got done reading the Fountainhead a few months ago and I laughed when I got the the part where one of Toohey's cronies was describing how theater will eventually evolve into real life...essentially saying people would pay to watch "reality".....hmmmm, sound familiar??? hahaha...
 
LegalGear said:
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Minor paperwork violations and violations completely unrelated to food safety could result in draconian penalties. Cite scientific research about food or supplements without FDA approval? You could go to jail for ten years. We need your help to amend or defeat this Orwellian bill that is currently on a fast track to passage. Because of the importance of this subject, it is the only subject in this week’s newsletter.

EMAIL YOUR REP RIGHT NOW:
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Done- in our mfg. process, we take numerous steps to ensure consumer safety and to follow cGMPs:
special garbing
raw material testing
detailed batch records
cleaning, use, and maintenance logs
2,000+ page guidebook of SOIs for our facility
specialized training in cGMPs and HACCP
automated systems
calibration and validation of processes
specialized air flow and exchange
specialized cleaning validation and procedures to avoid cross-contamination

it is a very long list, and we follow it to a T.......


Yet I can a few miles down the road, and go to a Taco Bell where someone found a Band-Aid in the food and in a town 30 miles away, they had a You-Tube video of 3 idiot Dominoes Pizza employees doing absolutely nasty stuff to the food.......not to rant, but it is ****ing ridiculous......they have 0 regulations and are a 100-fold greater health risk than any dietary supplement could ever be

Adulterated food? Go to a meat packing plant or chicken processing- they manage to get **** in the meat just about every shift- any never get fined, b/c they are under USDA jurisdiction, and not FDA......
 
rms80 said:
Done- in our mfg. process, we take numerous steps to ensure consumer safety and to follow cGMPs:
special garbing
raw material testing
detailed batch records
cleaning, use, and maintenance logs
2,000+ page guidebook of SOIs for our facility
specialized training in cGMPs and HACCP
automated systems
calibration and validation of processes
specialized air flow and exchange
specialized cleaning validation and procedures to avoid cross-contamination

it is a very long list, and we follow it to a T.......


Yet I can a few miles down the road, and go to a Taco Bell where someone found a Band-Aid in the food and in a town 30 miles away, they had a You-Tube video of 3 idiot Dominoes Pizza employees doing absolutely nasty stuff to the food.......not to rant, but it is ****ing ridiculous......they have 0 regulations and are a 100-fold greater health risk than any dietary supplement could ever be
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I guarantee you that somewhere in the process you missed a piece of paperworkn or perhaps didn't fill it out to the complete satisfaction of the crony. Or, someone in the production chain didn't. You will now spend the next 10 years in prison.
 
dsade said:
I guarantee you that somewhere in the process you missed a piece of paperworkn or perhaps didn't fill it out to the complete satisfaction of the crony. Or, someone in the production chain didn't. You will now spend the next 10 years in prison.
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Oops- I mis-spelled resveratrol in a batch record- that will be $100,000......

The worst part about it- the enforcement is (as it is now, and probably will continue to be) completely arbitrary- it completely depends on the agent conducting the inspection.....
 
rms80 said:
Oops- I mis-spelled resveratrol in a batch record- that will be $100,000......

The worst part about it- the enforcement is (as it is now, and probably will continue to be) completely arbitrary- it completely depends on the agent conducting the inspection.....
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With NO oversight, or apparent appeal process.
 
dsade said:
With NO oversight, or apparent appeal process.
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When they do an inspection- they write you a 482 (notice of inspection), and if the find anything they don't like, they start writing 483s (observations). Some agents are cool and will let you correct them on the spot, especially for nit-picky things (small step not followed from SOI, etc.) before it goes as public record.

Then some aren't- and will stay at your facility and/or keep coming back- I have heard some real horror stories from some of the other guys at trade shows- really ****s up your batch cycles and production shifts :(

But you do have a grace period for correction- and if any issues are included in your Gaps Analysis, you usually get a pass....but it all depends on the agent......and there is not an appeal process, and all inspections are unannounced

and they only care if you are following cGMPs right then-and-there, if you have done something right for 10 years straight, and it doesn't get done correctly on the day of inspection- they can pop you for it.......
 
dsade said:
that's it...Rusty on my orwell.
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No, you got it. Newspeak is the name of the language, and double talk is the process of lying, and knowing your lying, but still believing you are telling the truth. I was agreeing that this FSEA is definitely newspeak.
 
Zero V said:
So tempting....this government has kinda become a dictatorship hiding behind the curtain of democracy.
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Please do my friend. We can sit here and bitch all day long. We can write emails, get ignored, and get gobbledygook double talk replies that miss the point.

Benjamin was asked by a woman after the constitutional convention what form of government was decided on. He replied "A Republic, if you can keep it."

I, for one, will no longer willingly let it go. I will fight for my family, so that my kids and grand kids can have the same freedoms as I did. I will fight so they don't have to pay the bill for the politicians being greedy, short sided, and asinine.

They try to ignore us.

The MSM and Hollywood made fun of us on Tax Day.

The MSM was silent about us on July 4th.

On September 12th; the day after the anniversary of the terror attack, September 12th; the day we stopped being left or right, black or white, gay or straight....September 12th; the day we we're all united as AMERICANS...On September 12th 2009 we will march into Washington DC and make them see us and hear our words. We want a gathering of ONE MILLION PATRIOTS all at once shouting in unison "NO MORE!!"

or as Dsade put it so eloquently:

dsade said:
Dear Congressman,

You are all inept, corrupt, powerhungry idiots. WE OPPOSE ANY EXPANSION OF FDA POWER, INCLUDING THESE BS "FEEL-GOOD" MEASURES WHICH WILL DO NOTHING BUT FURTHER CRIPPLE AN ALREADY DOOMED ECONOMY. KNOCK IT OFF NOW, OR WE WILL FORCIBLY REMOVE YOU FROM POWER."
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:usa:
 
LT* said:
It is the responsibility of the Food and Drug Administration to inspect and safeguard the nation's food supply, in order to prevent outbreaks of food-based illnesses and contain such outbreaks when they do occur.
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Bingo. This is fear-mongering at its finest. Though he put it quite mildly compared to what I am sure is coming down the line.

Does anyone have any reason to believe that a single one of these replies has not been a form letter? They all look it to me.
 
I just sent my rep a nice little reply. Lets see if he actually replies back, since i mentioned an entire part of the friggin bill that's been overlooked. hmm I doubt it though.
 
joeflex73 said:
The lobbyists will be the death of this country.
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True.

I wish they would outlaw that. Instead of listening to "we the people" they listen to people that get paid by special interest to force an issue that usually makes them a profit. The Federalist Papers state the founders thought of such practices (bribery, foreign influence, ect) as a danger to democracy.

Trivia: One of the stories about the origins of Lobbying is the President Grant would leave the White House and go to a nearby hotel and sit in the lobby and smoke cigars, drink brandy, and read the newspaper to relax. His habit was found out and people began arriving there to ask him about policies and try to persuade him to their views. He referred to the annoying people as lobbyist and the term stuck.

True or not...I don't know.
 
Here is my reply.

Dear Mr. Price:

Thank you for taking the time to contact me regarding H.R. 2749, the Food Safety Enhancement Act of 2009. I appreciate hearing from all Pennsylvanians about the issues that matter most to them.

Representative John Dingell of Michigan introduced the Food Safety Enhancement Act on June 8, 2009. It was referred to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce. Currently, there are no related bills in the Senate.

This bill proposes greater U.S. Food and Drug Administration regulatory powers over the national food supply and food providers. This bill would generate resources to support FDA oversight of food safety, increase inspections of food facilities and improve the safety and traceability of domestic and imported food. The bill would impose annual registration fees of $500 on all facilities holding, processing, or manufacturing food, and require that such facilities also engaged in the transport or packing of food maintain pedigrees of the origin and previous distribution history of the food. In addition, this bill would grant the FDA the authority to issue mandatory recalls on tainted foods. Should the Senate consider this or related proposals, pleased be assured that I will keep your views in mind when casting my vote.

As always, I appreciate your views, thoughts, and concerns as they assist me in understanding what is important to the people of Pennsylvania. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future about this or any other matter of importance to you.

If you have access to the Internet, I encourage you to visit my web site, Invalid Link Removed. I invite you to use this online office as a comprehensive resource to stay up-to-date on my work in Washington, request assistance from my office or share with me your thoughts on the issues that matter most to you and to Pennsylvania.

Sincerely,
Bob Casey
United States Senator
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I will write back.

JP.
 
Look I hate to break to folks here but no amount of pestering your Congressmen will do anything to this bill. It will pass almost unanimously. Ron Paul will vote no, but he's probably the only one since he votes no on everything.

Money talks, that's it. If you don't have the cash to spread around Congress, you will NOT be able to have any effect on this bill.
 
My Reply.

Hi.
And thank you MR.Casey for your time to review my concerns.
The issue's with H.R. 2749 that trouble myself and others is that the bill is seemingly far to vague to be put into law.

Let me be a little more specific about my concerns regarding this bill and the supplement industry.
As I'm sure you are aware many people take supplements and vitamins to maintain a healthy life style.

Last month a vitamin B supplement was up for a ban. A P5P.
But with a Doctors prescription the vitamin would be fine.
Not everyone can afford a prescription.
OTC as it is now helps people, both from a health aspect as well as a financial aspect.
With the vagueness of this proposed bill alot of people could be hurt.
Don't get me wrong Sir.
If there is the possibality of food being tainted then by all means the FDA should step in.

However, when there is a product that has been provein to help people it should be left alnoe.

MR.Casey.
If this bill passes the American people will be at the mercy of the FDA. A government entity that has said more then once that it does not have the resources to keep tabs on everything.
So basically the FDA would have the power to choose for us.

I must say that would be unacceptable.

MR. Casey. Please vote aganist this bill and allow the American people to have choices instead of haveing to pay up to the pharmaceutical companies.

Thank you.

MR. Jeff Price
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This is what I send to my entire sphere of influence. Everyone should send this out to everyone they know

Please read this email in its entirety.

Your Federal Government is making yet another ridiculous power grab which the media is not exposing. If you take any kind of vitamin of use any kind of common consumable commodity, you NEED to email your Senator/Representative in opposition to this bill. This is another attempt to grow the Gov and levy additional taxes upon the goods you use everyday. The language in this bill is intentionally very vague which is what makes this bill dangerous. The passage of this bill would result in the unnecessary growth of the FDA, who already does a terrible job with their responsibilities.

To read about the proposed legislation:  Invalid Link Removed

To email your congress people:  Invalid Link Removed

Don’t just send the pre-typed message in the email link. Please type a direct and explicit message at the top so there is no confusion as to your non-support of this proposed legislation. See below for my personalized message. Please feel free to copy and paste it into the message box. Remember, these people in Washington work for YOU. We vote them into office and they need to start acting like it.


****Dear Senator/Representative****

PLEASE DO NOT SUPPORT THIS BILL. THIS BILL IS UNACCEPTABLE AND SHOULD BE VOTED AGAINST. WE, YOUR CONSTITUENTS NEED YOU TO REPRESENT US AND THIS BILL IS NOT IN OUR BEST INTEREST. IT IS TOO VAGUE TO BE MADE INTO LAW AND IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BLATANT ATTEMPT TO EXPAND THE CONTROL OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT UNDER THE GUISE OF PUBLIC SAFETY. IF MADE INTO LAW, THIS WILL RESULT IN THE RAISED TAXES AND COSTS OF THE GOODS AND COMMODITIES THAT AMERICANS SO COMMONLY USE ON A DAILY BASIS. PLEASE VOTE NO.



Please forward this email to everyone you know.


Thanks
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SpicyBrainz said:
Look I hate to break to folks here but no amount of pestering your Congressmen will do anything to this bill. It will pass almost unanimously. Ron Paul will vote no, but he's probably the only one since he votes no on everything.

Money talks, that's it. If you don't have the cash to spread around Congress, you will NOT be able to have any effect on this bill.
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Wow.

You might be right.

Does that mean we just sit on our hands and let them do as they please without voicing displeasure?

Hell no.

If they think we don't care, we aren't paying attention, then they will do whatever they want.

They try to get away with this kind of crap anyway. We have been apathetic and ignored for too long. When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.

When people fear government, you have tyranny. When government fear the people, you have freedom.
 
bigrobbierob said:
Wow.

You might be right.

Does that mean we just sit on our hands and let them do as they please without voicing displeasure?

Hell no.

If they think we don't care, we aren't paying attention, then they will do whatever they want.

They try to get away with this kind of crap anyway. We have been apathetic and ignored for too long. When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.

When people fear government, you have tyranny. When government fear the people, you have freedom.
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Yeah but writing a congressman is like screaming at a brick wall. It gets nothing accomplished. Why bother. Rebellion does become duty but not enough people are willing to stand up. If you got even 10,000 people, which would be difficult to do, to stand up for the right reason the government would crush you. I just lay back and take it, and hopefully they will use vaseline or at least give me a reach around. What other choice is there? Write a letter that won't even be read?

I just try to be greatful I don't have it as bad as someone in the middle east under taliban control. We got it bad when it comes to our personal rights but it is better than most anywhere else.
 
lozgod said:
Yeah but writing a congressman is like screaming at a brick wall. It gets nothing accomplished. Why bother. Rebellion does become duty but not enough people are willing to stand up. If you got even 10,000 people, which would be difficult to do, to stand up for the right reason the government would crush you. I just lay back and take it, and hopefully they will use vaseline or at least give me a reach around. What other choice is there? Write a letter that won't even be read?

I just try to be greatful I don't have it as bad as someone in the middle east under taliban control. We got it bad when it comes to our personal rights but it is better than most anywhere else.
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I weep for this country...the forefathers would be ashamed.
 
lozgod said:
Yeah but writing a congressman is like screaming at a brick wall. It gets nothing accomplished. Why bother. Rebellion does become duty but not enough people are willing to stand up. If you got even 10,000 people, which would be difficult to do, to stand up for the right reason the government would crush you. I just lay back and take it, and hopefully they will use vaseline or at least give me a reach around. What other choice is there? Write a letter that won't even be read?

I just try to be greatful I don't have it as bad as someone in the middle east under taliban control. We got it bad when it comes to our personal rights but it is better than most anywhere else.
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My friend...it's people with that attitude which has allowed politicians to have the power to do that.

The power doesn't come from Washington. It doesn't come from a birth right. It comes from "we the people".

If you are perfectly happy getting ass raped by the government, go ahead and take it. Don't bother complaining about it because you are a willing participant.

But I will stand up and let them know I will not go down without a fight. I will not hand over my kids. I will not hand over my grandchildren.

And there are plenty willing to fight with me.

And, you know what? We will continue to fight for you and your children as well.

Maybe we will win....maybe we will lose....either way when my granddaughter ask me what I did to try and save the Republic of the United States of America I can look her in her eyes and say I did everything I could and never laid down to "just take it".
 
bigrobbierob said:
My friend...it's people with that attitude which has allowed politicians to have the power to do that.

The power doesn't come from Washington. It doesn't come from a birth right. It comes from "we the people".

If you are perfectly happy getting ass raped by the government, go ahead and take it. Don't bother complaining about it because you are a willing participant.

But I will stand up and let them know I will not go down without a fight. I will not hand over my kids. I will not hand over my grandchildren.

And there are plenty willing to fight with me.

And, you know what? We will continue to fight for you and your children as well.

Maybe we will win....maybe we will lose....either way when my granddaughter ask me what I did to try and save the Republic of the United States of America I can look her in her eyes and say I did everything I could and never laid down to "just take it".
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I expected a response like that but both of our attitudes and efforts accomplish the same thing. Mine just didn't take any time or energy.
 
lozgod said:
I expected a response like that but both of our attitudes and efforts accomplish the same thing. Mine just didn't take any time or energy.
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...then what are you doing in this thread? If you have already accepted that trying to do SOMETHING accomplishes nothing( as the congressmen have made their choice already in your mind) then again, ...WTF are you doing reading this thread. You have already made your decision to willingly take it up the @ss, and you dont care. So why does any information in this thread matter to you?

And yes Dsade,.. our forefathers would be ashamed.
 
brk_nemesis said:
...then what are you doing in this thread? If you have already accepted that trying to do SOMETHING accomplishes nothing( as the congressmen have made their choice already in your mind) then again, ...WTF are you doing reading this thread. You have already made your decision to willingly take it up the @ss, and you dont care. So why does any information in this thread matter to you?
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I didn't say I didn't care. I do. I just accept there is absolutely nothing I can do to stop it. If every member in the history of this and every other BB'ing forum signed it, it would not stop the bill from being passed. Only a lobbyist with the right connections and amount of money could.
 
lozgod said:
I didn't say I didn't care. I do. I just accept there is absolutely nothing I can do to stop it. If every member in the history of this and every other BB'ing forum signed it, it would not stop the bill from being passed. Only a lobbyist with the right connections and amount of money could.
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And if every media network blasted news about it this bill could lead to higher prices in foods due to "new" parameters, and supplements/vitamins being takin off the market, you dont think that if a very large number of peope protested the bill that congressmen and reps would not see it? Politicians care about one thing just about as much as power/money,... and that is STAYING in power. There are politicians who jump ship on bills all the time at the last minute and go to the other side for that reason,.. to keep support, and stay where they are.

Point is its all about how much you really care about your country, not just for you, but for YOUR children and so on. Its quite ironic that I actually know a few people who have migrated to this country from all over the world, and they are more patriotic and more involved in the community than many other people I know that have lived here their whole lives. Its just unbelievable.
 
brk_nemesis said:
And if every media network blasted news about it this bill could lead to higher prices in foods due to "new" parameters, and supplements/vitamins being takin off the market, you dont think that if a very large number of peope protested the bill that congressmen and reps would not see it? Politicians care about one thing just about as much as power/money,... and that is STAYING in power. There are politicians who jump ship on bills all the time at the last minute and go to the other side for that reason,.. to keep support, and stay where they are.

Point is its all about how much you really care about your country, not just for you, but for YOUR children and so on. Its quite ironic that I actually know a few people who have migrated to this country from all over the world, and they are more patriotic and more involved in the community than many other people I know that have lived here their whole lives. Its just unbelievable.
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A. This is the greatest country in the world. Make no mistake about me knowing that.

There is a reality that you accept at a certain level of experience. You can't change the world. Want to change government? Run for a position in government. All the patriotic talk and petitions and idealism, etc doesn't change anything. It takes millions to really have an impact. Like the civil rights movement for instance. That many people couldn't be ignored. These types of petitions on matters like this where people either do not know it is going on, or do not know how it will impact them, can not be stopped. Be angry, be patriotic, say what you want about people that do not bother with stuff like this, etc. etc. It makes no difference. If you really are driven to make a change run for an office and make changes. Posting in this thread, telling everyone how you feel, etc etc is going to have no effect. Thats life. If you choose not to accept it then that is your decision.
 
lozgod said:
There is a reality that you accept at a certain level of experience.
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Last I checked this was not a d!ck measuring contest, so you can throw the experience bullsh!t out the window.


lozgod said:
You can't change the world. Want to change government? Run for a position in government. All the patriotic talk and petitions and idealism, etc doesn't change anything. It takes millions to really have an impact. Like the civil rights movement for instance. That many people couldn't be ignored. These types of petitions on matters like this where people either do not know it is going on, or do not know how it will impact them, can not be stopped. Be angry, be patriotic, say what you want about people that do not bother with stuff like this, etc. etc. It makes no difference. If you really are driven to make a change run for an office and make changes. Posting in this thread, telling everyone how you feel, etc etc is going to have no effect. Thats life. If you choose not to accept it then that is your decision.
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Wow, where do even start?

First of all where do you think all of those civil rights movements came from? They all started out as small, unorganized movements that people like you simply blew off. It wasn't till years later, increased coverage, and people joining the cause b/c they had enough of it, that it was finally noticed. Then the nationwide movement began. Everything starts out small and insignificant.

I will agree with you at least that there is corruption on a scale unfathomable in our government, and I doubt you will find many people on here that will disagree with you on that. But that fact is everything else you have stated is nothing more than your opinion. Its no different than me having my own opinion. And last I checked, majority of the people on this thread believe in actually DOING something, regardless if their attempts go nowhere. So the fact is YOUR opinion of "nothing ever changing" falls on deaf ears here. Just like you said "Posting in this thread, telling everyone how you feel is going to have no effect," actually works in my favor, as no one on here cares what you think.
 
lozgod said:
I didn't say I didn't care. I do. I just accept there is absolutely nothing I can do to stop it. If every member in the history of this and every other BB'ing forum signed it, it would not stop the bill from being passed. Only a lobbyist with the right connections and amount of money could.
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Didn't several hundred million phone calls stop a blanket amnesty program from getting anywhere last year?
 
lozgod....

if the colonist shared your apathy, you would have a British accent right now.

if the Brits shared your apathy...if the French Underground shared your apathy...if our grandparent did....you would have a German accent right now.

if the people of Germany shared your apathy, the Berlin Wall never would have fallen.

if you truly believe it is the greatest country in the world then why not try and keep it that way?

Here's an analogy...you and I are both going to die someday, there's no doubt about it.

Now, I exercise, eat right, take supplements, and get regular check-ups in the hope to live just a little longer and in good health.

Now using the attitude you've displayed, you decide you will die no matter what you attempt to do, so why spend the time exercising and eating right? Hell, if you're going to die anyway why not save the time and just shoot yourself now?

Doesn't make sense does it?

Sometimes it's not about winning and losing...it's about doing the right thing no matter what.

There's a old saying, "it's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all". Well, to paraphrase that I will say "It is better to have fought for what you believe in and lose than never to have fought at all"

If you feel the government is corrupted, have you wondered how it got that way?

Look in the mirror. Apathetic people like you that just laid there and took it.
 
I have seriously thought about moving to a different country because of the cluster f*** our nation has become. I love my country, but I am disgusted and furious about how our elected officials are throwing around our money, making policies that are crippling our freedoms, and breaking laws with little or no punishment.



Big Rob, I am in total agreement with you logically and emotionally.



I would like this thread to continue so lets not get nasty guys.
 
yoshi5674 said:
I have seriously thought about moving to a different country because of the cluster f*** our nation has become. I love my country, but I am disgusted and furious about how our elected officials are throwing around our money, making policies that are crippling our freedoms, and breaking laws with little or no punishment.

Big Rob, I am in total agreement with you logically and emotionally.
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Thank you.

Before booking a ticket out of town, would you please consider joining the fight to take the country back peacefully and look for a Tea Party group in your area you can join and participate in? Maybe join the online 9-12project? Consider participating in the million patriot march on Washington DC on September 12th?

I would like this thread to continue so lets not get nasty guys.
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Yes. We are presumably mature adults and we should carry ourselves as such.

It's not about left and right. It's not about Democrat or Republican. It's being an American. Being an American used to mean being an embodiment of an idea. The idea that we had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The idea that this nation shall have a new birth of freedom and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Somewhere along the way "we the people" forgot that. :(

It's time for a reminder!
 
yoshi5674 said:
I have seriously thought about moving to a different country because of the cluster f*** our nation has become.
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Yeah. I been thinking about this too. Maybe Mexico, or China, or Iran. The rest of the world is so much better. We have it so bad.
 
bigrobbierob said:
Thank you.

Before booking a ticket out of town, would you please consider joining the fight to take the country back peacefully and look for a Tea Party group in your area you can join and participate in? Maybe join the online 9-12project? Consider participating in the million patriot march on Washington DC on September 12th?



Yes. We are presumably mature adults and we should carry ourselves as such.

It's not about left and right. It's not about Democrat or Republican. It's being an American. Being an American used to mean being an embodiment of an idea. The idea that we had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The idea that this nation shall have a new birth of freedom and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Somewhere along the way "we the people" forgot that. :(

It's time for a reminder!
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I heart this post.

Stand for nothing and youll fall for anything.
 
bigrobbierob said:
Look in the mirror. Apathetic people like you that just laid there and took it.
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And what have you done TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE? Not state your opinion, or got a few people's attention. What have you done personally to make a difference.

I voted 3rd party once when Gore/Bush ran. I used to tell everyone about the different political parties out there other than republican and democrat. I used to care. Nothing changed. I threw my vote away. No one cared.

Why bother? Pay your bills, try to be happy, workout, eat well, etc. That stuff I have control over.
 
somewhatgifted said:
You are as much of the problem as everyone else who does nothing to stop it.
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Other than criticize people that don't think like you, tell me how you made a difference? Name something you have done that has made a difference? Maybe you are worse than me. You claim to be part of the solution but haven't made a difference. Maybe you all should look in the mirror and ask are you merely shouting from soapboxes.
 
Im a canuck and I just did it too, out fckn countries are disgusting me and we have all lost any control or power. we are at the mercy of our crazy big governments and in my opinion Vitamin C will be as hard to get as Test in a few years.

What a fckn joke this all is, ban everything guys, your doing a bang up job.
 
lozgod said:
Other than criticize people that don't think like you, tell me how you made a difference? Name something you have done that has made a difference? Maybe you are worse than me. You claim to be part of the solution but haven't made a difference. Maybe you all should look in the mirror and ask are you merely shouting from soapboxes.
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Isn't this the same excuse the German citizens gave when surrounded by the holocaust?
 
lozgod said:
Other than criticize people that don't think like you, tell me how you made a difference? Name something you have done that has made a difference? Maybe you are worse than me. You claim to be part of the solution but haven't made a difference. Maybe you all should look in the mirror and ask are you merely shouting from soapboxes.
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Funny I threw my vote away myself years ago, no matter what happens In Canada or The US unless you come with the masses and are willing to use violence nothing will change, any petition will get caught up in fckn red tape and squashed.

Its quite the mess we all ive in, but I agree, pay your bills, be happy....control what you have control over as we have zero say in anything.

and no matter what all of us think, even if we have 6 billion signatures, they will pass whatever the fck they want. Violence is the only way to bring change, I hate to say it.
 
searl12 said:
Funny I threw my vote away myself years ago, no matter what happens In Canada or The US unless you come with the masses and are willing to use violence nothing will change, any petition will get caught up in fckn red tape and squashed.

Its quite the mess we all ive in, but I agree, pay your bills, be happy....control what you have control over as we have zero say in anything.

and no matter what all of us think, even if we have 6 billion signatures, they will pass whatever the fck they want. Violence is the only way to bring change, I hate to say it.
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Now this guy has the right idea.
 
People who just want to work, pay the bills, and live, ignoring the fact that this country is unconstitutional and so full of crap and lies, DOES NOT deserve to be in this damn country with the spirit it used to represent. It is ideals like that which reduced men to automatons, and people who will only complain when taxes are hiked, illegal laws are passed, lies are told, etc, and do nothing about it.

There are so few MEN left Mankind may never recover.
 
Zero V said:
People who just want to work, pay the bills, and live, ignoring the fact that this country is unconstitutional and so full of crap and lies, DOES NOT deserve to be in this damn country with the spirit it used to represent. It is ideals like that which reduced men to automatons, and people who will only complain when taxes are hiked, illegal laws are passed, lies are told, etc, and do nothing about it.

There are so few MEN left Mankind may never recover.
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So explain what you do to change things? Is it because you signs petitions you are more patriotic? I clearly see what you say but tell me what you do.
 
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
 
I never said I wasnt down for being involved in fighting all this, in fact Id be more interested than most, im simply saying that our governments have handcuffed us to the point that were basaically powerless ( in case you didnt notice).

You come up with a plan Zero, and Ill follow you, but till then your just as powerless as anyone.
 
lozgod said:
So explain what you do to change things? Is it because you signs petitions you are more patriotic? I clearly see what you say but tell me what you do.
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Actually my preferred way is through violence and blood :duel:

Look at my posts round here. As soon as the chance comes you will find me in the front lines of this civil war.

I firmly believe the time of peaceful recourse is over, it is impossible now, why do you think so many states are starting to see pop ups of small militia groups? The storm is coming, and the only way to make the government understand is with a letter written in crimson. Its own crimson blood.
 
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