Bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs peptides & MK677 (similar to 2-3 iu GH)

txoc

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Mk really raises prolactin. Take caber or something.
...
There is nothing permanently damaged. Your okay.
The "nothing permanently damaged. Your okay" is important here.

A week off mk and loading up on the b6 got me started, but I had built up a bit of baggage in my head about whether or not I was attracted to my gf and whether or not my johnson was going to be game ready. Of course things didn't work out well, which reinforced my concerns. We talked, I chilled, we gave it another go, and things worked beautifully. My boy is back in the game and life is better.

I'd had something like this happen previously when I was younger, where I had a several months of ED issues because I'd gotten a bit of performance anxiety and couldn't get it up. I kept getting in my head on subsequent hookups and so it kept happening. I thought I was broken for real. During one hookup with a new chick who seemed pretty cool I just straight up said "Hey, I've been having some issues getting it up, so if things are choppy it's not you." She was super chill about it, just shrugged and said something along the lines of "no worries" and looked genuinely unconcerned. The second that pressure was off I could have cut diamonds.

One final bit- I was still jerking off while my libido was down on the mk. I think it wasn't great for my sensitivity either. Give your jimmy a break, find a chill chick if you've got a regular or a partner, and ease your way back into it and relax a bit. You sound generally hard on yourself and if your internal critic is running on overdrive then of course you're going to have a dead libido and you're feeling insensitive.
 
Jinsun

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The "nothing permanently damaged. Your okay" is important here.

A week off mk and loading up on the b6 got me started, but I had built up a bit of baggage in my head about whether or not I was attracted to my gf and whether or not my johnson was going to be game ready. Of course things didn't work out well, which reinforced my concerns. We talked, I chilled, we gave it another go, and things worked beautifully. My boy is back in the game and life is better.

I'd had something like this happen previously when I was younger, where I had a several months of ED issues because I'd gotten a bit of performance anxiety and couldn't get it up. I kept getting in my head on subsequent hookups and so it kept happening. I thought I was broken for real. During one hookup with a new chick who seemed pretty cool I just straight up said "Hey, I've been having some issues getting it up, so if things are choppy it's not you." She was super chill about it, just shrugged and said something along the lines of "no worries" and looked genuinely unconcerned. The second that pressure was off I could have cut diamonds.

One final bit- I was still jerking off while my libido was down on the mk. I think it wasn't great for my sensitivity either. Give your jimmy a break, find a chill chick if you've got a regular or a partner, and ease your way back into it and relax a bit. You sound generally hard on yourself and if your internal critic is running on overdrive then of course you're going to have a dead libido and you're feeling insensitive.
Yup, he is one of the most panicky people on this board. Always something wrong and damaged and he really experiences everything very profoundly. It's important to remember that you are alright.
 

CroLifter

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Telling you P5P is great on MK. I have a great libido when I take P5P and MK.
I would be worried that just how anything that increases gh production can increase prolactin, same would apply to anything that decreases prolactin; would decrease gh production.

Caber for example decreases GH production.
 
ValiantThor08

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I would be worried that just how anything that increases gh production can increase prolactin, same would apply to anything that decreases prolactin; would decrease gh production.

Caber for example decreases GH production.
I looked into it more, seems like B6 can promote GH while at the same time reducing prolactin
Screenshot_20200907-150442.jpeg
 
Beau

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It is my understanding that you want to avoid dosing either P5P or B6 at the same time that dose any type of L-Dopa product, so - if taking both - I believe they should be taken at different times of the day.
 
ValiantThor08

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It is my understanding that you want to avoid dosing either P5P or B6 at the same time that dose any type of L-Dopa product, so - if taking both - I believe they should be taken at different times of the day.
Right, l Dopa should be taken before B6, or many hours after.
 
ValiantThor08

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Damn why the heck inhibit p has both then? Does that make it useless?
There is a debate on that. The theory is, b6 next to L-dopa causes metabolism into dopamine before it hits the brain, and when you have L-dopa with something like green tea extract, it won't metabolize into dopamine until it is in the brain.
 
aaronuconn

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Damn why the heck inhibit p has both then? Does that make it useless?
No.


 
StarScream66

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It is my understanding that you want to avoid dosing either P5P or B6 at the same time that dose any type of L-Dopa product, so - if taking both - I believe they should be taken at different times of the day.
There is a debate on that. The theory is, b6 next to L-dopa causes metabolism into dopamine before it hits the brain, and when you have L-dopa with something like green tea extract, it won't metabolize into dopamine until it is in the brain.
@ValiantThor08 is right. Taking P5P specifically helps l-dopa cross the BBB and convert to dopamine in the brain. This is essentially a good thing, so that's why most supplements with l-dopa would include it - for mood enhancement. But, if you're taking l-dopa to reduce prolactin (I'm assuming?) then you wouldn't want to take P5P with it. (Please don't make me dig up the study showing this, ugh it would take forever o_O)

But, why are you taking B6 or P5P with MK677?
 
ValiantThor08

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@ValiantThor08 is right. Taking P5P specifically helps l-dopa cross the BBB and convert to dopamine in the brain. This is essentially a good thing, so that's why most supplements with l-dopa would include it - for mood enhancement. But, if you're taking l-dopa to reduce prolactin (I'm assuming?) then you wouldn't want to take P5P with it. (Please don't make me dig up the study showing this, ugh it would take forever o_O)

But, why are you taking B6 or P5P with MK677?
P5P on its own is a very cheap way to reduce prolactin. MK raises my prolactin, as well as the Kratom I take, and I take P5P because it's a cheap and effective way by itself to keep prolactin issues at bay.
 
StarScream66

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P5P on its own is a very cheap way to reduce prolactin. MK raises my prolactin, as well as the Kratom I take, and I take P5P because it's a cheap and effective way by itself to keep prolactin issues at bay.
Good to know. I'm on nandrolone right now, so I should probably double up on my B6. P5P gives me really weird dreams if I take it before bed. How much are you taking?

But, remember, prolactin can't cause gyno on it's own, it needs estrogen to do that.
 
ValiantThor08

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Good to know. I'm on nandrolone right now, so I should probably double up on my B6. P5P gives me really weird dreams if I take it before bed. How much are you taking?

But, remember, prolactin can't cause gyno on it's own, it needs estrogen to do that.
Every other day I take my B100 complex, which has 100mg of a combo of B6 and P5P, then before bed I'll take 25mg of P5P. On tbe alternate days I don't take my B100, I take 25mg of P5P upon waking and before bed. I like the P5P dreams.
 
StarScream66

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Every other day I take my B100 complex, which has 100mg of a combo of B6 and P5P, then before bed I'll take 25mg of P5P. On tbe alternate days I don't take my B100, I take 25mg of P5P upon waking and before bed. I like the P5P dreams.
It gives me nightmares, so I can't take it before bed. I'll just stick to the B100 and there's some P5P in my NOW ADAM Multi.
 
Whisky

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Good to know. I'm on nandrolone right now, so I should probably double up on my B6. P5P gives me really weird dreams if I take it before bed. How much are you taking?

But, remember, prolactin can't cause gyno on it's own, it needs estrogen to do that.
you had any bloods done to check prolactin bro. Just my own experience but 350mg nanodrolone and I stayed in range my last blast (granted I was a touch questionable on that particular lab and I was using a small amount of ai).......
 

CroLifter

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So where are we with the whole gh vs peptides thing?

It seems that one needs 1 mod grf and 2 ipamorelin vials a week to run both at effective doses, right?

So as far as price goes for, for example, 5 weeks of gh at 4 iu a day 5 on 2 off would be pretty much the same as running 150mg mod and 300 ipa 2x a day...

And no damn prolactin sides from gh... Which inevitably gets pulled from your pituitary during a gh pulse

It seems like mk677 is the only lower cost option


And from this log an increase in igf on peps vs mk seems comparable... And from my experience mk does have a noticeable effect

So really... It seems its the gh train if you won't more results than mk can offer


Just contemplating... As i will be out of mk pretty early into my next cycle... And the usual supplier which carried this awesome mk is out of business due to shortage of raws... So I am sceptical a little of getting more mk from elsewhere... Gotta weigh my choices
 
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ValiantThor08

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So where are we with the whole gh vs peptides thing?

It seems that one needs 1 mod grf and 2 ipamorelin vials a week to run both at effective doses, right?

So as far as price goes for, for example, 5 weeks of gh at 4 iu a day 5 on 2 off would be pretty much the same as running 150mg mod and 300 ipa 2x a day...

And no damn prolactin sides from gh... Which inevitably gets pulled from your pituitary during a gh pulse

It seems like mk677 is the only lower cost option


And from this log an increase in igf on peps vs mk seems comparable... And from my experience mk does have a noticeable effect

So really... It seems its the gh train if you won't more results than mk can offer


Just contemplating... As i will be out of mk pretty early into my next cycle... And the usual supplier which carried this awesome mk is out of business due to shortage of raws... So I am sceptical a little of getting more mk from elsewhere... Gotta weigh my choices
For around 60 bucks total, I can get 5mg Ipamorelin and 5mg modGRF. That can be used 4 to 6 weeks successfully. Pretty cost effective. Just more annoying to pin daily as opposed to taking a tincture.
 

CroLifter

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For around 60 bucks total, I can get 5mg Ipamorelin and 5mg modGRF. That can be used 4 to 6 weeks successfully. Pretty cost effective. Just more annoying to pin daily as opposed to taking a tincture.
Well they say 300mg of ipa 2x a day at least, and 150 of mod.

Even if you went to 200mg of ipa thats still 2 weeks roughly for ipa and 3 weeks for mod, even if you went 5 on 2 off.

Ipa is supposed to be weaker than ghrp's but its cleaner, no cortisol release, afaik.
 
Jinsun

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idk if two pins of ipa a day produce steady igf1 levels
ipa has a longer HL but still ... 3 a day is what you want

cjc1295 + ipa is the way to go if you want to replace mk
 
ValiantThor08

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Well they say 300mg of ipa 2x a day at least, and 150 of mod.

Even if you went to 200mg of ipa thats still 2 weeks roughly for ipa and 3 weeks for mod, even if you went 5 on 2 off.

Ipa is supposed to be weaker than ghrp's but its cleaner, no cortisol release, afaik.
When you combine the Ipamorelin with the modGRF, it significantly increases the GH output, like a multiplication factor. So even if you did 2 shots of 100mcg a day 100ipa and 100modGRF twice a day, it's going to give similar if not better IGF levels than MK677. Perhaps I will get my IGF tested when I stop the MK and do peptides to prove it. All I know is recovery, glycogen retention, and nitrogen retention were better on a peptide combo, than MK solo.
 

ericos_bob

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What has happened to MK677?? I've just run out (buy 10g bulk powder) and made my way onto Ebay to restock and it's disappeared. No listings at all and the source I'd used for my last batch has disappeared which is a shame as it was very potent. I know there's a bunch of China labs selling raw powders but it's a minefield getting good product. If anyone has a good source for MK677 please send me message because I'd love to get another run in. Cheers
 
ValiantThor08

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What has happened to MK677?? I've just run out (buy 10g bulk powder) and made my way onto Ebay to restock and it's disappeared. No listings at all and the source I'd used for my last batch has disappeared which is a shame as it was very potent. I know there's a bunch of China labs selling raw powders but it's a minefield getting good product. If anyone has a good source for MK677 please send me message because I'd love to get another run in. Cheers
Supreme Labs, our board sponsor carries MK677 powder, and running a 30 percent off sale now with AM30
 

PCYeti

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Supreme Labs, our board sponsor carries MK677 powder, and running a 30 percent off sale now with AM30
I ran Supreme Labs MK for a good while, had my bloods drawn, and the needle barely moved from baseline. I didn't have the MK tested, so I've no idea if it was bunk or underdosed ... I may just not respond to MK.

I do, however, respond to Mod Grf + ipamorlin pretty well -- 3x daily at the doses being referenced.

I'll be switching to gh in 3 months at 2ius daily for a few months to see how i feel and what my igf moves to.
 
ValiantThor08

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I ran Supreme Labs MK for a good while, had my bloods drawn, and the needle barely moved from baseline. I didn't have the MK tested, so I've no idea if it was bunk or underdosed ... I may just not respond to MK.

I do, however, respond to Mod Grf + ipamorlin pretty well -- 3x daily at the doses being referenced.

I'll be switching to gh in 3 months at 2ius daily for a few months to see how i feel and what my igf moves to.
I used MK from two reputable sources. I know they were legit. My IGF was around 130 and 140 when I did two tests, from the two different brands. Still considered high on the scale, but not as high as I've seen others experience with MK (200 plus). We either don't respond phenomenal to MK, or our IGF is sub 100, and it actually is giving us a nice boost, all things considered. GHRP2 and a GNRH seemed to improve my IGF higher than MK, although I did not get tested, I'm going off of feelings.
 

CroLifter

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I used MK from two reputable sources. I know they were legit. My IGF was around 130 and 140 when I did two tests, from the two different brands. Still considered high on the scale, but not as high as I've seen others experience with MK (200 plus). We either don't respond phenomenal to MK, or our IGF is sub 100, and it actually is giving us a nice boost, all things considered. GHRP2 and a GNRH seemed to improve my IGF higher than MK, although I did not get tested, I'm going off of feelings.
Yes, we did conclude that ghrp and ghrh combo is going to give a better boost than mk solo


But like i already said, over here the cost of peptide concoctions is very close to the cost of GH.

Now, a mix of cjc and mk would be interesting since its not fair to compare a combo to mk solo.
 
ValiantThor08

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Yes, we did conclude that ghrp and ghrh combo is going to give a better boost than mk solo


But like i already said, over here the cost of peptide concoctions is very close to the cost of GH.

Now, a mix of cjc and mk would be interesting since its not fair to compare a combo to mk solo.
I agree. I think alternating between MK and peptides can be a good idea. Give oneself a break from pinning.
 

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Yes, we did conclude that ghrp and ghrh combo is going to give a better boost than mk solo


But like i already said, over here the cost of peptide concoctions is very close to the cost of GH.

Now, a mix of cjc and mk would be interesting since its not fair to compare a combo to mk solo.
Totally agree -- my cost of 2 ius gh (hrt clinic) is nearly identical to my peptide cost.

I like to run bloods after 6-8 weeks of a change in protocol, so after I run my next labs I'll switch to gh snd give that a go.
 

UNX

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I agree. I think alternating between MK and peptides can be a good idea. Give oneself a break from pinning.
I would do that but I can't stand MK anxiety. I'll keep the ModGRF+ Ipa combo for PCT. I tried this combo mostly as nasal spray, I don't like to pin that much but it's a waste compared to SQ.
 

ericos_bob

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Thanks but Supreme Labs MK raw is twice the price of my previous source. I'll keep on searching.
 
Fly_boy

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Other than IGF-1, are there any other baseline blood markers that would be helpful prior to running MK?
 
tregar

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I have lowered my weekly test cypionate from 200mg a week down to 140mg a week, and once starting the mk677 for the 4rth year in a row (only use mk677 at 25mg a day for 6 months of the year, then take 6 months off) I have noticed I once again love the mk677 again, great pumps, endurance in the gym, strength increases, no mania or lethargy (never had any lethargy ever), doing great, this is what I had needed to do all along, was simply lower my weekly TRT dosage, and the mk677 in combo with this is extraordinary. BP is normal, it was a bit higher when my test dosage was higher with the mk677, but since lowering the trt dosage, BP is very good with the mk677 combo,

I should have been doing this the past 3 years. Learn thru trial and error. LOVE the mk677 with this 140mg a week test. Even dropped 6 pounds of fat without even trying over 2 weeks since lowering the test, the higher test dosage was hindering my weight loss and raising my BP a bit. Glad to be back on track. Still use betaine 1.25g x twice a day, hmb 6g or so a day, creatine, CLA daily and lots of fish oil, BCAA's and met-rx pure protein of course. Keto diet is rocking with this combo.

I am calm all day with no mania once again, unlike what I posted back on post #393, the higher blood pressure was the problem all along with the test cyp being too high.

The coupon codes I put up on post #374 are for 6 different places you can buy it from that are not even affiliated with each other, they save me a good 25% or more, just trying to help you all save money, since I no longer buy direct from China. Choose any place you want, I found the codes one day, and they helped me out. This stuff is priced way too high in the USA, coupons are good, just like you use for grocery store.

Matsuo said:
It’s hard to control BP with high test and MK, same as with high test and GH...

Good call @tregar
 
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Jinsun

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Even dropped 6 pounds of fat without even trying over 2 weeks since lowering the test, the higher test dosage was hindering my weight loss and raising my BP a bit.
Why would a higher test dose hinder fat loss??
 
tregar

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I don't know Jinsun, perhaps it was mostly water that came off, whatever the case I'm down a good 6 lbs whereas before I was fighting even on keto diet to maintain the lower weight. I agree, higher test usually helps with fat loss. Everyone is different however, just my story.

Thanks Matsuo, excellent observation, rings so true. A while back, stocked up on inexpensive primobolan powder from China, as I make my own vials. Sticking with primobolan cycles along with only 140mg of test cyp from now on when I do my 12 week cycles twice per year, I've noticed no BP issues whatsoever with the primobolan, only high quality muscle gain, and no water retention, love that stuff too along with the mk677. As I recall it was one of Arnold's staples and all time favorites, I see why.
 
Mathb33

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Mk677 similar to 2-3 iu of growth.... hahahhahahahahhahahahahhaahahhahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
 
theswede

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I have lowered my weekly test cypionate from 200mg a week down to 140mg a week, and once starting the mk677 for the 4rth year in a row (only use mk677 at 25mg a day for 6 months of the year, then take 6 months off) I have noticed I once again love the mk677 again, great pumps, endurance in the gym, strength increases, no mania or lethargy (never had any lethargy ever), doing great, this is what I had needed to do all along, was simply lower my weekly TRT dosage, and the mk677 in combo with this is extraordinary. BP is normal, it was a bit higher when my test dosage was higher with the mk677, but since lowering the trt dosage, BP is very good with the mk677 combo,

I should have been doing this the past 3 years. Learn thru trial and error. LOVE the mk677 with this 140mg a week test. Even dropped 6 pounds of fat without even trying over 2 weeks since lowering the test, the higher test dosage was hindering my weight loss and raising my BP a bit. Glad to be back on track. Still use betaine 1.25g x twice a day, hmb 6g or so a day, creatine, CLA daily and lots of fish oil, BCAA's and met-rx pure protein of course. Keto diet is rocking with this combo.

I am calm all day with no mania once again, unlike what I posted back on post #393, the higher blood pressure was the problem all along with the test cyp being too high.

The coupon codes I put up on post #374 are for 6 different places you can buy it from that are not even affiliated with each other, they save me a good 25% or more, just trying to help you all save money, since I no longer buy direct from China. Choose any place you want, I found the codes one day, and they helped me out. This stuff is priced way too high in the USA, coupons are good, just like you use for grocery store.

Matsuo said:
What’s your keto diet look like op? Macros and food selection?
 
Fly_boy

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I have lowered my weekly test cypionate from 200mg a week down to 140mg a week, and once starting the mk677 for the 4rth year in a row (only use mk677 at 25mg a day for 6 months of the year, then take 6 months off) I have noticed I once again love the mk677 again, great pumps, endurance in the gym, strength increases, no mania or lethargy (never had any lethargy ever), doing great, this is what I had needed to do all along, was simply lower my weekly TRT dosage, and the mk677 in combo with this is extraordinary. BP is normal, it was a bit higher when my test dosage was higher with the mk677, but since lowering the trt dosage, BP is very good with the mk677 combo,

I should have been doing this the past 3 years. Learn thru trial and error. LOVE the mk677 with this 140mg a week test. Even dropped 6 pounds of fat without even trying over 2 weeks since lowering the test, the higher test dosage was hindering my weight loss and raising my BP a bit. Glad to be back on track. Still use betaine 1.25g x twice a day, hmb 6g or so a day, creatine, CLA daily and lots of fish oil, BCAA's and met-rx pure protein of course. Keto diet is rocking with this combo.

I am calm all day with no mania once again, unlike what I posted back on post #393, the higher blood pressure was the problem all along with the test cyp being too high.

The coupon codes I put up on post #374 are for 6 different places you can buy it from that are not even affiliated with each other, they save me a good 25% or more, just trying to help you all save money, since I no longer buy direct from China. Choose any place you want, I found the codes one day, and they helped me out. This stuff is priced way too high in the USA, coupons are good, just like you use for grocery store.

Matsuo said:
How’s your glucose level?
 

CroLifter

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Mk677 similar to 2-3 iu of growth.... hahahhahahahahhahahahahhaahahhahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Hm

You know i ll be taking growth this year so will be able to compare. 3 iu will be my dose of choice.
 
Jinsun

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Hm

You know i ll be taking growth this year so will be able to compare. 3 iu will be my dose of choice.
Low dose seeing as your natural igf is 250 ... 4iu should be minimum for you.
 

CroLifter

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It was 2.5 pints and in a span of 8 weeks


If you know what a pint is of course.
 
Mathb33

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It was 2.5 pints and in a span of 8 weeks


If you know what a pint is of course.
So we went from being cool with each other to you insinuating I’m an idiot. That’s cool. Can’t you see we were just having a little laugh of the past that was absolutely not meant to be mean?
 

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