bb.com warehouse raided

hardknock said:
I do see your point approach but tracing an IP and, then confiscating the web store's database and seeing that this person who posted this thread saying "look here, I h ave XXX" and matching it to the credit card receipts is not really that hard to do...people go to jail many times over for these small instances that we consider to be invisible.
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Not to have a pissing contest but unless you can prove the chain of custody then a lot is left to speculation. So yea receipts and whatnot would be hard to argue but if they have no proof you ever accepted delivery of them then ... see what I mean? There are several arguments you could present in a defense.

I hope it doesn't come to that though.
 
n8te said:
Not to have a pissing contest but unless you can prove the chain of custody then a lot is left to speculation. So yea receipts and whatnot would be hard to argue but if they have no proof you ever accepted delivery of them then ... see what I mean? There are several arguments you could present in a defense.

I hope it doesn't come to that though.
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we are guppies........

they want the whales........


I still wouldnt be posting pics of my stash if they were illegal.
 
MC Gun said:
l am not an e thug but l do get fired up about this topic my point is we are here to get educated and do things the right way. The last thing we want is to be told how our supplements will be taken off the shelf because you think it is only PH's now wait till you cannot buy even basic supplements if you cant see that you should not be posting stupid comments like how happy you will be when they are gone. l will be happy when they stop drilling in Antartica and stop polluting my world l live in but l wont be happy when l cant buy supplements from the US because at the moment you are the best and cheapest place to get them from and FDA will stop them all if they get their bill passed go here to stop it if you have any brains.

Invalid Link Removed
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I never said i will be so happy to see them go but im tired of reading about the uneducated getting ahold of them and taking something when u have no idea whats in half of them.supplement companies are shady and take advantage of consumers and something has got to give.there needs to be some kind of testing standard to hold supplement companies accountable.however i agree there are way bigger problems in the world.this just happens to be the only one we are talkin about in this forum.and i dont care what bill passes and what gets banned.i can live and workout without supplements and prohormones.food and training build more muscle than any supplement can.you have your opinion and i have mine.i will leave it at that.
 
n8te said:
Not to have a pissing contest but unless you can prove the chain of custody then a lot is left to speculation. So yea receipts and whatnot would be hard to argue but if they have no proof you ever accepted delivery of them then ... see what I mean? There are several arguments you could present in a defense.

I hope it doesn't come to that though.
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You have no pissing contest here brother. I am a living example that it is pretty simple to get caught with your hand int he wrong cookie jar. Overall, it is not an easy task to prove but who even wants to go through that BS. Believe me, you do not want to walk that line.
 
jambarino said:
I never said i will be so happy to see them go but im tired of reading about the uneducated getting ahold of them and taking something when u have no idea whats in half of them.supplement companies are shady and take advantage of consumers and something has got to give.there needs to be some kind of testing standard to hold supplement companies accountable.however i agree there are way bigger problems in the world.this just happens to be the only one we are talkin about in this forum.and i dont care what bill passes and what gets banned.i can live and workout without supplements and prohormones.food and training build more muscle than any supplement can.you have your opinion and i have mine.i will leave it at that.
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yeah really? you do not even know what is in your drinking water like heavy metals and chemicals for example our water here in Australia measures over 900 ppm of ? or in some cases like in mining towns how much lead is in the air you breathe so have an intelligent opinion then post about it. l do care what bills get passed and what gets banned and if you had any backbone even for your fellow bodybuilders you would too.
 
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Some folks are getting hung up on the fact that these are not banned (Schedule III) substances.

While that is correct, it is also not the premise for the FDA raid.

You cannot sell ANY drugs, including OTC stuff like Tylenol and Aspirin, without FDA approval. FDA approval means testing, getting an NDC number, labeling reqs, etc. Dietary supplements on the other hand are specifically exempt from FDA control.

However, in order for something to be considered a "dietary supplement" as opposed to a drug:

1. It must be a naturally occurring substance
2. There cannot be any specific medical claims made on the label

Superdrol, Pheraplex, etc. are not naturally occurring substances thus they do not meet the dietary supplement exemption. Period.

Likewise, saying sh*t like "anabolic", "testosterone activator", "hormonal modulator" etc. is making a medical claim on the label and is illegal. Period.

If I sell a dietary supplement and put Tylenol in it, I am illegally selling a drug as a dietary supplement and can be raided by the FDA and have everything seized. If I sell monkey semen as a dietary substance and put "gives you major boners" on the label, I am illegally making a medical claim and can be raided by the FDA and have everything seized. None of this has anything to do with whether or not a particular substance is banned per a DEA Schedule.

Just trying to explain the grounds for the FDA action. I don't like it either, but this is what it's about.
 
Sticky this post.
Good post.

RTD1 said:
Some folks are getting hung up on the fact that these are not banned (Schedule III) substances.

While that is correct, it is also not the premise for the FDA raid.

You cannot sell ANY drugs, including OTC stuff like Tylenol and Aspirin, without FDA approval. FDA approval means testing, getting an NDC number, labeling reqs, etc. Dietary supplements on the other hand are specifically exempt from FDA control.

However, in order for something to be considered a "dietary supplement" as opposed to a drug:

1. It must be a naturally occurring substance
2. There cannot be any specific medical claims made on the label

Superdrol, Pheraplex, etc. are not naturally occurring substances thus they do not meet the dietary supplement exemption. Period.

Likewise, saying sh*t like "anabolic", "testosterone activator", "hormonal modulator" etc. is making a medical claim on the label and is illegal. Period.

If I sell a dietary supplement and put Tylenol in it, I am illegally selling a drug as a dietary supplement and can be raided by the FDA and have everything seized. If I sell monkey semen as a dietary substance and put "gives you major boners" on the label, I am illegally making a medical claim and can be raided by the FDA and have everything seized. None of this has anything to do with whether or not a particular substance is banned per a DEA Schedule.

Just trying to explain the grounds for the FDA action. I don't like it either, but this is what it's about.
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Iron Lungz said:
Sticky this post.
Good post.
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Thanks. I posted it over at bb.com too. People are getting totally sidetracked by the "it's not banned" argument and forgetting that 1) you can't sell drugs as dietary supplements 2) you can't make medical claims for dietary supplements. The fact that it's the FDA doing the raids instead of the DEA and that products are being seized but people aren't being arrested should clue folks in that it's not about selling scheduled substances.
 
RTD1 said:
Thanks. I posted it over at bb.com too. People are getting totally sidetracked by the "it's not banned" argument and forgetting that 1) you can't sell drugs as dietary supplements 2) you can't make medical claims for dietary supplements. The fact that it's the FDA doing the raids instead of the DEA and that products are being seized but people aren't being arrested should clue folks in that it's not about selling scheduled substances.
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Yes, very interesting that the DEA has not reared its ugly head yet.

I made a statement on bb last night that it was basically a catch 22.

How can I, for instance, make a reliable label claim of an obscure product when I know that said claim will mean that I am distributing an actual drug and making medical claims....once again, not talking about the ones that label their product as what it truly is. I am talking about such entities as ALRI.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTD1
I sell monkey semen as a dietary substance and put "gives you major boners" on the label
Will NP carry it in bulk?

lmao
 
hardknock said:
Yes, very interesting that the DEA has not reared its ugly head yet.

I made a statement on bb last night that it was basically a catch 22.

How can I, for instance, make a reliable label claim of an obscure product when I know that said claim will mean that I am distributing an actual drug....once again, not talking about the ones that label their product as what it truly is. I am talking about such entities as ALRI.
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A lot of so called "drugs" are found naturally occurring in the body like peptides and growth hormones and nandrolone is found also just to name a few so maybe it should be the FDA revising the definition of a drug rather than trying to apply old classes that dont and should not apply. Basically they have classed most of the naturally found chemicals in our bodies wrongly as drugs.
 
hardknock said:
Yes, but how much man power does it take to log on to a site and find a thread such as the one which says ...."TAKE A LOOK AT MY STASH"

And then, on top of that, have several people in the thread talking about where they went (offline) to get the products? It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure this one out. And, you think that government officials do not have people that YOU MAY converse with on a daily basis (online) working for them?
Some of the best government informants have been criminals...don't underestimate big brother at all. As soon as you do that, you are done.
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if they have the resources to come after me, why the hell can't they get that kid selling crack in front of the local school off the streets. watergate/monica/iran contra, i don't give the government much credit at all.
 
MC Gun said:
yeah really? you do not even know what is in your drinking water like heavy metals and chemicals for example our water here in Australia measures over 900 ppm of ? or in some cases like in mining towns how much lead is in the air you breathe so have an intelligent opinion then post about it. l do care what bills get passed and what gets banned and if you had any backbone even for your fellow bodybuilders you would too.
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wtf are you ranting about.we are talking about supplements and you are way off in left field talking about water and the enviroment and mining and drilling in antartica???sorry your scared that the fda will ban prohormones and you wont have your crutches to lean on and wont be able to buy supplements from america anymore.boo fu***ng hoo.apparently that 900 ppm in your water has gone straight to your head.
 
Please shut up for the sake of all of us dude. You obviously don't have a clue about any of this so please save it. Thanks and I look forward to your CONSTRUCTIVE posts in the future.

jambarino said:
wtf are you ranting about.we are talking about supplements and you are way off in left field talking about water and the enviroment and mining and drilling in antartica???sorry your scared that the fda will ban prohormones and you wont have your crutches to lean on and wont be able to buy supplements from america anymore.boo fu***ng hoo.apparently that 900 ppm in your water has gone straight to your head.
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juice3320 said:
Please shut up for the sake of all of us dude. You obviously don't have a clue about any of this so please save it. Thanks and I look forward to your CONSTRUCTIVE posts in the future.
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whats your feeling on the situation then bro?afraid that you wont be able to break 200lbs without tren or phera or superdrol.you have never even taken a prohormone so what clue do you have???
 
I say we resort to putting snukes in the snizz's of all the high class prostitutes we all know the upper members of our government sleep with...(any of you who have watched a certain show will get this joke).

Believe it or not I didnt see this thread. Ah that is why it was productive ^.^
 
Zero V said:
I say we resort to putting snukes in the snizz's of all the high class prostitutes we all know the upper members of our government sleep with...(any of you who have watched a certain show will get this joke).

Believe it or not I didnt see this thread. Ah that is why it was productive ^.^
Click to expand...

rofl I recognize the snukes and the snizz's part but i freakin forget where it's from!!!
 
thebigt said:
if they have the resources to come after me, why the hell can't they get that kid selling crack in front of the local school off the streets. watergate/monica/iran contra, i don't give the government much credit at all.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you live but the prisons are, literally, FULL of people who sell crack/cocaine. Putting them in jail doesn't change anything. You have to stop the source and that is nearly impossible.

Its the same argument for alcohol. People saying that why don't they outlaw alcohol...seriously? We have seen what that did for us before, nothing. If you try and outlaw alcohol, do people realize how many deaths that would result in? And, it would NEVER work, it did not before and could not possibly work now.
 
MC Gun said:
A lot of so called "drugs" are found naturally occurring in the body like peptides and growth hormones and nandrolone is found also just to name a few so maybe it should be the FDA revising the definition of a drug rather than trying to apply old classes that dont and should not apply. Basically they have classed most of the naturally found chemicals in our bodies wrongly as drugs.
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Naturally occurring vs synthetic production...no comparison there.
What exactly could the curtail be with the wording of what a drug is or isn't? There isn't much room for changing the definition.
 
You have to take the words "natural occurring" with a grain of salt, mcgun. My blood is naturally occurring, but I can't just take it and sell it out of my back door without facing severe legal ramifications.
 
RTD1 said:
Some folks are getting hung up on the fact that these are not banned (Schedule III) substances.

While that is correct, it is also not the premise for the FDA raid.

You cannot sell ANY drugs, including OTC stuff like Tylenol and Aspirin, without FDA approval. FDA approval means testing, getting an NDC number, labeling reqs, etc. Dietary supplements on the other hand are specifically exempt from FDA control.

However, in order for something to be considered a "dietary supplement" as opposed to a drug:

1. It must be a naturally occurring substance
2. There cannot be any specific medical claims made on the label

Superdrol, Pheraplex, etc. are not naturally occurring substances thus they do not meet the dietary supplement exemption. Period.

Likewise, saying sh*t like "anabolic", "testosterone activator", "hormonal modulator" etc. is making a medical claim on the label and is illegal. Period.

If I sell a dietary supplement and put Tylenol in it, I am illegally selling a drug as a dietary supplement and can be raided by the FDA and have everything seized. If I sell monkey semen as a dietary substance and put "gives you major boners" on the label, I am illegally making a medical claim and can be raided by the FDA and have everything seized. None of this has anything to do with whether or not a particular substance is banned per a DEA Schedule.

Just trying to explain the grounds for the FDA action. I don't like it either, but this is what it's about.
Click to expand...

fantastic post btw
 
jambarino said:
wtf are you ranting about.we are talking about supplements and you are way off in left field talking about water and the enviroment and mining and drilling in antartica???sorry your scared that the fda will ban prohormones and you wont have your crutches to lean on and wont be able to buy supplements from america anymore.boo fu***ng hoo.apparently that 900 ppm in your water has gone straight to your head.
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No l am saying you are so ignorant you dont know what is in anything let alone supplements. To come on body building forums and saying you dont care what happens to our supplements shows you are also to weak to stand up for your industry if you don't care then go do something you do care about and leave the real people who do care about this issue alone.
 
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hardknock said:
You have to take the words "natural occurring" with a grain of salt, mcgun. My blood is naturally occurring, but I can't just take it and sell it out of my back door without facing severe legal ramifications.
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yes but l can sell sell you very deadly poisons and label them household cleaners and that's ok. See what l mean. None of the products l buy come with any claims and all the ones l purchase come with strict warning on their labels l dont see how they are banned before Cigarettes.
 
hardknock said:
Naturally occurring vs synthetic production...no comparison there.
What exactly could the curtail be with the wording of what a drug is or isn't? There isn't much room for changing the definition.
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yes a drug used to be a classification of unnatural substances like chemotherapy, heroin and cocaine cannot be reproduced in the body. Hormones like nandrolone and testosterone can be found naturally in the body for example. l am not saying all ph's are naturally found in the body Tren for example is not.
 
we have evolved along side our drugs
plants and humans have a long relationship
our brains throughout history have slowly developed receptor sites for us to use these chemicals

isn't it odd that we make nature against the law

who would of thought humans would get smart enough to synthesize and manipulate these compounds and realize what is going on inside those tiny minds of theirs? you mean those silly humans are interested in learning about, manipulating and creating their own bodies? i never would have guessed... well we cant have that.. lets just divide up all mass by value and make everyone participate in our ideology.. lets make nature illegal.. if they refuse, why we just seclude them in a confined space until they see things our way.. No abusing those precious natural receptor sites! And don't even think about growing a brain and synthesizing your own compounds... that's strictly forbidden.. see now, not only are you limited by what mass you can interact with, but now your brain is also limited by what it can experience.. and essentially what it can learn.. and create.. and think..

hell, the entire first decade of a human's life is spent in a group institutional system that answers every craving question the brain can generate at first in a state where its naturally curious and naturally developing learning patterns in which to examine the world around it.. ultimately forming your 'unique' paradigm and gestalt like patterns that will run as background processing programs in your brain for your entire lifetime (without the use of drugs)..
who would of thought we would all turn out the same? No we are educating ourselves and embracing freedom! right? right!

Yes.. give me more.. give me more freedom sauce.. mm.. yes.. government thank you.. thank you for blinding me into thinking i was never free as a child, and then slowly selling my freedoms back to me in exchange for my life.. yes thank you.. mmm its so good.. oh no do give me more yes.. more freedom.. mmm i love it.. freedom sauce is being sold everywhere i am so free now

yes.. believe in your freedom, you are free.. to do as they tell you..

every day it's one more inch.. the older generations die, along with them the slow dying memory of what freedom is and was.. and everyday a new reality is created, and a old one is slowly forgotten.. you think you are gonna get to explore a field that could possibly lead you to understanding yourself? hah! that's what those 12 long years of group institution was for.. now get back to work.. and keep up, because your disease will spread quick

where are we going.. we create so many obstacles for ourselves..
 
hardknock said:
I'm not sure where you live but the prisons are, literally, FULL of people who sell crack/cocaine. Putting them in jail doesn't change anything. You have to stop the source and that is nearly impossible.

Its the same argument for alcohol. People saying that why don't they outlaw alcohol...seriously? We have seen what that did for us before, nothing. If you try and outlaw alcohol, do people realize how many deaths that would result in? And, it would NEVER work, it did not before and could not possibly work now.
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exactly my point. people are getting paranoid about going to jail for a substance they were told was legal and purchased from a legitimate site? they are releasing prisoners every day for lack of room, and they are going to bust us for buying supposedly legal substances? everyone on here knows there are many sites that cater to illegal substances, going after ph's and legitimate sites is nothing more than blowing smoke. let them come and get me, i want to be in on the law suits if they pursue this mickey mouse bullshiit. the government thrives on scare tactics and this is nothing more than an effort to intimidate.
 
The only thing that I (and all of the other members) have a problem with is your earlier half-minded posts that were a pointless rant on these supps. If you do not like them then so be it. That is that and we can all move on but please do not tell us how stupid we are for actually being dedicated to a sport and trying to improve our God Given genetics through hard work and SAFE supplementation. Again I say HARD WORK. I could easily break 200 without any of that, the fact of the matter is is that there is this "stuff" out there and any intelligent human being will consider the resources at hand and then make an informed decision as to whether they will be beneficial or not. Obviously you don't like any of this. All I am saying is this thread is not for you to tell us how stupid we are. We are discussing a serious topic that is now a very real part of our lives and our country. Thank you for your maturity. We all appreciate it :). And once you win a bodybuilding comp please let me know as I will be much happier to talk to you then. :D God Bless bros! Any news as of late on the current situation?

Just so you know who you're talking to :D. Sorry guys for taking up so much room with this post! I just felt like it was necessary. By the way dude I know ALL ABOUT all natural :).

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jambarino said:
wtf are you ranting about.we are talking about supplements and you are way off in left field talking about water and the enviroment and mining and drilling in antartica???sorry your scared that the fda will ban prohormones and you wont have your crutches to lean on and wont be able to buy supplements from america anymore.boo fu***ng hoo.apparently that 900 ppm in your water has gone straight to your head.
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juice3320 said:
the fact of the matter is is that there is this "stuff" out there and any intelligent human being will consider the resources at hand and then make an informed decision as to whether they will be beneficial or not.
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Please qualify and quantify the variable health risk to benefit factors you have considered and determined, your means of measuring them, both short and long term, and present this data you used to make an intelligent informed decision.
 
B5150 said:
Please qualify and quantify the variable health risk to benefit factors you have considered and determined, your means of measuring them, both short and long term, and present this data you used to make an intelligent informed decision.
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Lets do the same with MSG and aspartame and see what the FDA does.... Or how about vaccines...

Hell Vaccines in my opinion will be the end of mankind, because it is through some of them that the most powerful mutations of viruses/bacteria will form.

They search for a vaccine for AIDs when a cure exists...stop sticking it places, y'know? Or stop spreading em, either way.

Instead we will drop billions and billions into a vaccine that will likely go a long way in the birth of a newer more potent disease.

But this is all carefully considered by the loving and caring FDA and big pharma companies who truly only want the best for us and for us all to live happy, long lives....

strategicmove said:
I could not agree more....
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Thanks for the opinion...
 
I am not sure what you are trying to do with this post but if you want more information I am sorry but I do not have time to write a novel. I said make an "informed decision" as to whether they would be "beneficial or not". For some the answer will be yes and for some the answer will be no. Everything can be dangerous if not used correctly even food. If you do not use food correctly you can become obese, aquire blocked arteries, etc. Therefore make your own informed decision on the matters at hand. Thank you.

B5150 said:
Please qualify and quantify the variable health risk to benefit factors you have considered and determined, your means of measuring them, both short and long term, and present this data you used to make an intelligent informed decision.
Click to expand...
 
juice3320 said:
I am not sure what you are trying to do with this post but if you want more information I am sorry but I do not have time to write a novel. I said make an "informed decision" as to whether they would be "beneficial or not". For some the answer will be yes and for some the answer will be no. Everything can be dangerous if not used correctly even food. If you do not use food correctly you can become obese, aquire blocked arteries, etc. Therefore make your own informed decision on the matters at hand. Thank you.
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I think we need ot ban fast food and microwave meals. That would solve at least 30% of our health issues....

Force people to....*GASP* cook their own food and prepare it for the week!!!!!
 
Zero V said:
I think we need ot ban fast food and microwave meals. That would solve at least 30% of our health issues....

Force people to....*GASP* cook their own food and prepare it for the week!!!!!
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This guy is ****ing nuts. He thinks we should all COOK our food:icon_lol:
 
This guy cooks his own food and look at his results! Invalid Link Removed That is actually homemade steamed broccoli and chicken tabs he is ingesting! Maybe we should all take a lesson from this and try this new COMPLETELY RADICAL approach. Is it safe to cook your own food?

n8te said:
This guy is ****ing nuts. He thinks we should all COOK our food:icon_lol:
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ban cigarettes... they smell bad and i cant stand when people breathe on me after smoking. its ok to smoke rat poison, but not ok to build muscle with a "mysterious" compound.. to me, i see no difference in the big picture between cigarettes and PH's, except for the fact PH's actually do something useful and good for you. what do cigarettes do thats useful and good? but they arent banned? i already know why, but ill keep the answer in my head.. how depressing...
 
hardknock said:
Brother, I cannot answer all of those questions but I can answer the first one.

Those companies do not hide the fact that they have harmful chemicals/substances in their food. Tobacco companies post that their products are "harmful", etc. Government officials ask that they do this, so they do abide and they get to fly. They also pay a hell of an amount in taxes.
Alcohol is a giving that it is harmful in many ways and it is accepted that it is 100% harmful when consumed in foolish amounts by foolish people.

No one can argue that if you drink and drive that you basically are signing your death warrant, OR WORSE CASE, someone else. You may get away with it for some time but sooner or later, like sleeping around, sh!t's going to catch up to you....

Rarely will you see on a bottle of Phera plex that this product causes high blood pressure, liver stress, and possible gyno (just to name a few). I have NEVER seen on a bottle that this may cause gyno. It is just accepted in the "circle" that these products can cause these issues. We talk about it on the boards, yet, this is within the "circle". This is not enough to be above the gray.

Also, as stated, how can we ask the FDA to trust us to regulate ourselves when we have Tom and Jerry running around mislabeling products? Then we have people running around posting logs saying that EVERYTHING WENT FINE with my run but, I didn't get before or after blood work...???

Once again, I am not a supporter of the government regulating what we put into our bodies; however, I would love for people to take their "creations" a bit more cautiously and be upfront and admit when they have wronged you and I....ummmmmhmmmmmm JW, we loved it!!!!!!
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i believe The One has it on its label.
 
Zero V said:
Lets do the same with MSG and aspartame and see what the FDA does.... Or how about vaccines...

Hell Vaccines in my opinion will be the end of mankind, because it is through some of them that the most powerful mutations of viruses/bacteria will form.

They search for a vaccine for AIDs when a cure exists...stop sticking it places, y'know? Or stop spreading em, either way.

Instead we will drop billions and billions into a vaccine that will likely go a long way in the birth of a newer more potent disease.

But this is all carefully considered by the loving and caring FDA and big pharma companies who truly only want the best for us and for us all to live happy, long lives....



Thanks for the opinion...
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Not to mention the companies making these viruses thats right they dont make themselves they are developed. The viruses are used to spread vaccines which alter your DNA and put fear into the general population the funny thing was in Australia the normal flu was worse than the swine flu l laughed so hard when l heard that. and make more money for the big drug companies
 
MC Gun said:
Not to mention the companies making these viruses thats right they dont make themselves they are developed. The viruses are used to spread vaccines which alter your DNA and put fear into the general population the funny thing was in Australia the normal flu was worse than the swine flu l laughed so hard when l heard that. and make more money for the big drug companies
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I have been anal probed by aliens. It's on youtube.
 
Zero V said:
I think we need ot ban fast food and microwave meals. That would solve at least 30% of our health issues....

Force people to....*GASP* cook their own food and prepare it for the week!!!!!
Click to expand...

So true microwaves were actually discovered back in WW2 when officers operation microwave transmitters were dropping dead when they did the autopsy the soldiers were cooked throughout their entire body thats how they discovered microwaves were good for cooking. Did you know that microwave studies showing how they damage cells and break down the natural structure of atoms was withheld by nearly all western governments. Some European countries used these studies and have banned or are banning microwave ovens.
 
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