ALPHA-2 VS. TT-33

[nattydisaster]

Just because no study since then supports the claim does not make the claim false. In that study they were basing metabolic rate off of TSH shutdown. Metabolic rate has more factors than just TSH. Just because researchers did not further investigate 3,3-T2 does not mean that it did not have metabolic effects.

For the past 3-4 years numerous users have taken 3,3-T2 alone, with no other compounds, and have felt significant effects at doses around 150mcg 2-3x per day.

But beyond this one compound, Alpha-T2 also contains 2 other extremely effective compounds, Methyl-synephrine and Rauwolscine HCl which should not be overlooked. No single ingredient in Alpha-T2 is more or less important than another.

 

[micro2000]

Just because no study since then supports the claim does not make the claim false. In that study they were basing metabolic rate off of TSH shutdown.

No they were not. They were looking for thyromimetic effects of diiodothyronines. 3,5-T2 showed efficacy, whereas 3,3-T2 did not.

Metabolic rate has more factors than just TSH. Just because researchers did not further investigate 3,3-T2 does not mean that it did not have metabolic effects.

One of the studies referenced in the product write up "Metabolic Effects of Thyroid Hormone Derivatives" the authors state that 3,3-T2 did not affect RMR.

For the past 3-4 years numerous users have taken 3,3-T2 alone, with no other compounds, and have felt significant effects at doses around 150mcg 2-3x per day.

What other products contains only 3,3-T2? The ones I am familiar with are a combination of 3,3 and 3,5, or are modified thyromimetics, like diprop and triprop.

But beyond this one compound, Alpha-T2 also contains 2 other extremely effective compounds, Methyl-synephrine and Rauwolscine HCl which should not be overlooked. No single ingredient in Alpha-T2 is more or less important than another.

And, IMO, this is the product's saving grace. I believe it would have been better if 3,3 was substituted with 3,5.

 

[nattydisaster]

No they were not. They were looking for thyromimetic effects of diiodothyronines. 3,5-T2 showed efficacy, whereas 3,3-T2 did not.

What other products contains only 3,3-T2? The ones I am familiar with are a combination of 3,3 and 3,5, or are modified thyromimetics, like diprop and triprop.

And, IMO, this is the product's saving grace. I believe it would have been better if 3,3 was substituted with 3,5.

Like i said, in terms of TSH and GH... "Thus, 3,5-T2 (but not 3,3′-T2) seems to mimic the effects of T3 on serum TSH and GH levels in rats."

I am not going to have a study argument on here. Everyone knows that they never end up with any said conclusion. Everyone has their opinions and has the right to stick to them.

A few years back you could buy bulk 3,3-T2 capsules from a few bulk supplement companies. Users get effects from 3,3-T2 alone, regardless of what 1-2 studies you have read do or do not say.

We chose the 3,3-T2 over 3,5-T2 because we did not want a suppressive supplement. IMO the fact that 3,5-T2 mimics T3 in terms of TSH is awful.

I have been a member of plenty of boards, such as AM back in the day, where there were T3 users running logs posting results all the time. I cannot tell you how many times users would run T3 and lose 15lbs and 4 weeks after stopping their cycle gain 20lbs due to TSH shutdown.

We did not want a product that would let users lose some weight while taking it but then gain it back when they stopped. That is not our idea of a useful supplement.

The other two ingredients are much much more than a "saving grace". They all compliment each other towards one common goal...losing fat. This product has already proven to help users reach their fat burning goals.

 

[thebigt]

By this logic, then the makers can't use any research to support their claims either, can they?

And there is no reason why methyl-synephrine can't be the effective component of this product. Weight loss occurs with ephedrine, yohimbine, clenbuterol, albuterol, etc. and none of these contain any thyromimetic component.

you make it sound as though i have never used a weight loss product before-you name it, more than likely i have tried it. i am telling you the effects i got were not the normal effects i have gotten from ephedrine/yohimbe or methyl synephrine containing products.

i highly recommend ALPHA T-2 to anyone on a cut/recomp or lean bulk.

 

[micro2000]

A few years back you could buy bulk 3,3-T2 capsules from a few bulk supplement companies.

Who?? What companies sold straight 3,3-T2?

 

[legalizejuice]

BIOTEST!!!!!!! T-2 Pro. Still sold up here in Canada.

 

[micro2000]

BIOTEST!!!!!!! T-2 Pro. Still sold up here in Canada.

It contains 3,5-T2.

 

[legalizejuice]

You are correct sir! My bad!

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Now 3,3 is suppose to cause little to no suppression correct? Therefore does the stack with Lean Xtreme prevent any suppression and all you reap are the fat burning benefits?

If that is the case one should not put on any weight after the cut due to suppression correct?

 

[RommelS]

I'll be stacking Alpha-T2 with Dermacrine-LV for some recomping. I don't care to lose weight. My goal is to shed fat without losing muscle. I'm a bit sensitive to stims so I was worried about throwing OEP in the mix as well.

 

[elivvt]

3,5-Diiodo-L-thyronine powerfully reduces adiposity in rats by increasing the burning of fats

"Thyroid hormones (THs), thyroxine (T4) and 3,3',5-triiodo-L-thyronine (T3) are well known to stimulate metabolism while simultaneously lowering metabolic efficiency. "This effect has long been the focus of research into the potential use of THs as drugs to stimulate weight loss. However, the concomitant induction of a thyrotoxic state and of several side effects (i.e., increase in heart rate, increases in thyroid and heart mass, and decrease in skeletal muscle mass and in serum TSH levels) has greatly limited their use as weight-lowering agents. Recent evidence suggests that 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine (T2), a naturally occurring iodothyronine, stimulates metabolic rate via mechanisms involving the mitochondrial apparatus. In addition, T2 can induce metabolic inefficiency, possibly by stimulating energy loss via mechanisms involving mitochondrial proton leakage/redox slippage. Such inefficiency in energy transduction should result in reduced energy storage. In view of these metabolic effects of T2 and the very low affinity of T2 for nuclear T3 receptors, we thought it conceivable that in rats fed a high-fat diet (HFD), long-term treatment with T2 might result in a reduced adiposity and less body weight gain without inducing a clinical syndrome related to the thyrotoxic state."

 

[MAxximal]

he we go again

 

[elivvt]

he we go again

Yeah just dismiss the facts.
onder:

 

[thebigt]

the fact is-alpha t-2 works. i have been on it for 2 months, and had to readjust my goal. i wanted to get down to 190 but the recomp effect of alpha t-2 has been so good that i am happy to stay at 197-my wife told me not to lose any more weight-nuff said!!!

 

[MAxximal]

the fact is-alpha t-2 works. i have been on it for 2 months, and had to readjust my goal. i wanted to get down to 190 but the recomp effect of alpha t-2 has been so good that i am happy to stay at 197-my wife told me not to lose any more weight-nuff said!!!

yeah man the Recomp effect is AWESOME!!!!!!!

 

[Xenonex]

The ingredients that work in Alpha-T2 are the MS and Yohimbine, not the T2. T2 has no effect on TSH because it doesn't work. 3,5 however, does have valid research behind it. Also this talk of suppressing thyroid is nonsense. Suppression from 3,5 will be minimal at best, and even then studies indicate the thyroid will recover quickly.

 

[nattydisaster]

The ingredients that work in Alpha-T2 are the MS and Yohimbine, not the T2. T2 has no effect on TSH because it doesn't work. 3,5 however, does have valid research behind it. Also this talk of suppressing thyroid is nonsense. Suppression from 3,5 will be minimal at best, and even then studies indicate the thyroid will recover quickly.

Take a few capsules of Shift on an empty stomach and see if you still think 3,3 does not work

 

[Rosie Chee]

The ingredients that work in Alpha-T2 are the MS and Yohimbine, not the T2. T2 has no effect on TSH because it doesn't work. 3,5 however, does have valid research behind it. Also this talk of suppressing thyroid is nonsense. Suppression from 3,5 will be minimal at best, and even then studies indicate the thyroid will recover quickly.

I beg to differ. I have used multiple products (and some of the same ones twice) containing 3,5 just to be sure that the effect I was getting WAS that particular ingredient and not any of the others - all the same: Had the OPPOSITE than intended effect, not to mention made me lethargic as hell, and I went backwards every single time I used such a product. Alpha-T2 on the other hand, works like a charm for me, perfect with my body.

~Rosie~

 

[Xenonex]

I beg to differ. I have used multiple products (and some of the same ones twice) containing 3,5 just to be sure that the effect I was getting WAS that particular ingredient and not any of the others - all the same: Had the OPPOSITE than intended effect, not to mention made me lethargic as hell, and I went backwards every single time I used such a product. Alpha-T2 on the other hand, works like a charm for me, perfect with my body.

~Rosie~

It 'worked like a charm' because of the MS and yohimbine (both of which are solid ingredients). You can throw around all the anecdotal evidence you wish, but facts remain that 3,3 is ineffective for fat loss.

 

[kevinhy]

It 'worked like a charm' because of the MS and yohimbine (both of which are solid ingredients). You can throw around all the anecdotal evidence you wish, but facts remain that 3,3 is ineffective for fat loss.

Do you have evidence to support it doesnt work? I dont believe drawing conclusions based on its effect on TSH levels means anything other than precisely that.

Heres a quote from a study done on reverse t3 and 3,3-t2:

"These studies suggest that reverse T3 and 3,3′T2 can stimulate thyroid hormone-regulated functions as weak agonists by acting via the same receptors that mediate T3 actions. Moreover, some of the effects of reverse T3 may be due to 3,3′T2 produced by deiodination of reverse T3."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC372479/pdf/jcinvest00660-0010.pdf

 

[Rosie Chee]

It 'worked like a charm' because of the MS and yohimbine (both of which are solid ingredients). You can throw around all the anecdotal evidence you wish, but facts remain that 3,3 is ineffective for fat loss.

You have your opinion and that's fine. As for me, I'll take my personal experience over theory any day of the week, thanks.

~Rosie~

 

[Xenonex]

Do you have evidence to support it doesnt work? I dont believe drawing conclusions based on its effect on TSH levels means anything other than precisely that.

Heres a quote from a study done on reverse t3 and 3,3-t2:

"These studies suggest that reverse T3 and 3,3′T2 can stimulate thyroid hormone-regulated functions as weak agonists by acting via the same receptors that mediate T3 actions. Moreover, some of the effects of reverse T3 may be due to 3,3′T2 produced by deiodination of reverse T3."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC372479/pdf/jcinvest00660-0010.pdf

Refer to PES writeup for Alpha T2. For some reason they included a study that shows that 3,3 doesn't work, whereas 3,5 does. My guess is they are counting on the average consumer not reading it, or reading the part where it says 3,3 had no impact on thyroid. (Aka doesn't work)

You have your opinion and that's fine. As for me, I'll take my personal experience over theory any day of the week, thanks.

~Rosie~

Except my 'opinion' is scientific fact. Either way, I'm not here to convince you of anything. The data is out there, but you choose to largely ignore it and go by 'feel.' Unfortunately, placebo is very real and can make even ineffective products give steroid-like results. I.e. ecdy, CEE (check the logs bro logic). I'm not saying Alpha T2 is ineffective, just this ingredient.

 

[kevinhy]

Refer to PES writeup for Alpha T2. For some reason they included a study that shows that 3,3 doesn't work, whereas 3,5 does. My guess is they are counting on the average consumer not reading it, or reading the part where it says 3,3 had no impact on thyroid. (Aka doesn't work)



Except my 'opinion' is scientific fact. Either way, I'm not here to convince you of anything. The data is out there, but you choose to largely ignore it and go by 'feel.' Unfortunately, placebo is very real and can make even ineffective products give steroid-like results. I.e. ecdy, CEE (check the logs bro logic). I'm not saying Alpha T2 is ineffective, just this ingredient.

Conflicting studies are conflicting. I'll look for this study later this evening, but just keep in mind I already posted a study that says 3,3 stimulates thyroid regulated functions. Whats your opinion on that?

 

[Rosie Chee]

Except my 'opinion' is scientific fact. Either way, I'm not here to convince you of anything. The data is out there, but you choose to largely ignore it and go by 'feel.' Unfortunately, placebo is very real and can make even ineffective products give steroid-like results. I.e. ecdy, CEE (check the logs bro logic). I'm not saying Alpha T2 is ineffective, just this ingredient.

As I said, "You have your opinion" and I have mine. Since you're relatively new to the forum some ignorance on your comments regarding me and supplements can be ignored - just be aware next time you tell me that I "go by 'feel'" and talk about "placebo" results; I know my body very, very well (and I HAVE to, period), and certainly do not experience "placebo" effects; not to mention that my body does not respond as it "should" 99% of the time. Also note that "scientific fact" is not true for EVERYone, and just because it was true for one study (or many) or the majority, does not mean that it is for ALL - there are anomalies for EVERYthing, where effects and results are the complete opposite to the "expected", and in most cases, when it comes to anything re nutrition, training, or supplementation, I am one of those anomalies.Next time you start spouting off to a member here about what their experience with products, etc., make sure you know their background - there are a lot of very experienced and knowledgeable trainees here, many whom are like myself and can tell you without hesitation and doubt if something works for them and makes a difference. If you're trying to start an argument or discredit PES, then I suggest that you stop wasting your time - there are always going to be haters, but this is not the place to try and tear apart others.

~Rosie~

 

[nattydisaster]

Sorry if you dont think it works. This topic has been discussed over, and over, and over, chewed up, spit out, and redisccused. Like I said before....try taking a few caps of it on an empty stomach and then make your decision.

Not depressing TSH does not mean it is not effective.

Both of the T2 isomers have effects on protein uncoupling and increasing resting metabolism.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Well first before I say anything, Xenonex....have you tried Alpha-T2 or Shift and had no results above baseline?

 

[Xenonex]

As I said, "You have your opinion" and I have mine. Since you're relatively new to the forum some ignorance on your comments regarding me and supplements can be ignored - just be aware next time you tell me that I "go by 'feel'" and talk about "placebo" results; I know my body very, very well (and I HAVE to, period), and certainly do not experience "placebo" effects; not to mention that my body does not respond as it "should" 99% of the time. Also note that "scientific fact" is not true for EVERYone, and just because it was true for one study (or many) or the majority, does not mean that it is for ALL - there are anomalies for EVERYthing, where effects and results are the complete opposite to the "expected", and in most cases, when it comes to anything re nutrition, training, or supplementation, I am one of those anomalies.Next time you start spouting off to a member here about what their experience with products, etc., make sure you know their background - there are a lot of very experienced and knowledgeable trainees here, many whom are like myself and can tell you without hesitation and doubt if something works for them and makes a difference. If you're trying to start an argument or discredit PES, then I suggest that you stop wasting your time - there are always going to be haters, but this is not the place to try and tear apart others.

~Rosie~

Tl;dr

Sorry if you dont think it works. This topic has been discussed over, and over, and over, chewed up, spit out, and redisccused. Like I said before....try taking a few caps of it on an empty stomach and then make your decision.

Not depressing TSH does not mean it is not effective.

Both of the T2 isomers have effects on protein uncoupling and increasing resting metabolism.

I never said that is the only reason.

Well first before I say anything, Xenonex....have you tried Alpha-T2 or Shift and had no results above baseline?

Yes, I have tried Alpha-T2 and I liked it. It was the only product I could find with methylsynephrine where I could dose it high enough. T2 is still a good product despite the 3,3. MS is a cousin of ephedra and I personally believe it works almost as well dosed properly.

 

[Thunder1]

Could Nattydisaster or a PES rep answer the following? I purchased several bottles of Iforce TT-33. I tried one bottle with no results. There was considerable argument at BB.com regarding its ingredients and effectiveness. I just purchased 2 bottles of Alpha T-2 from Nutra and will use with OEP. Could you address the 3,3 to 3,3, 3,5 diiodo issues, how your product is similar and different from TT-33, and safety issues of both products (i.e, thyroid suppression)? I wish I could get rid of my bottles of TT-33. You want to buy them for testing or something?

I've tried both & alpha-2 was superior.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

then try shift. It's cheap and you can truly see if 3'3 is as ineffective as you believe.

And hey since you know its safe and does not cause suppression the worst thing that happens is ur out 15 bucks, but you can give an honest review which to many people is priceless.

 

[GuyverX]

Alpha T2 kept me from gaining weight in the times my diet was spotty.
And when I was really on point, the effects increased.
And when I added Shift at night, helped me to slim down pretty quick.

Other than DNP(lol) or Crack there is no supplement that will magically do anything.
Not referring to you OP but a lot of people forget the meaning of supplement. Something extra to add to what is already there.
Which are the two complementary factors of training and diet.

Plus different things work or do not work for different people depending on many factors.
And one can find opposing studies on many different compounds.

 

[AE14]

The ingredients that work in Alpha-T2 are the MS and Yohimbine, not the T2. T2 has no effect on TSH because it doesn't work. 3,5 however, does have valid research behind it. Also this talk of suppressing thyroid is nonsense. Suppression from 3,5 will be minimal at best, and even then studies indicate the thyroid will recover quickly.

I could not disagree more. I have used both, and found little to no response from 3,5. While on the same diet, 3,3 was far more effective. ALos, please do not tell me that it was the other ingredients in AT2, as I saw much of the results from Shift.

Now let me say this, I think the beauty of this discussion is that it can be subjective. What works for some does not necessarily work as well on others. That right there is the beauty of genetics.

 

[MrBigPR]

AE has valid points and I suspect that the timing of your dosing could have interfered with achieving maximum results. Because T2 is such a small measurable dose (micrograms), it's best to be taken without food or drink besides water because it will bind to those things leaving you with nothing absorbed since it is processed with the food/drink. T2 is an excellent product, has that extra kick than shift but you can definitely FEEL the T2.