Agmatine, muscle builder or prostate breaker?

Rostam

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Since few years companies are promoting Agmatine. And based on the user feedback it seems that it's working well for pump, vascularity and hypertrophy. But how safe is it in regard to prostate health? It seems that Agmatine increases synthesis of arachidonic acid in the body. Now It has been shown that arachidonic acid stimulates the growth of prostate cancer cells. Studies show that incidences of prostate cancer is greatest in regions with high consumption of foods rich in arachidonic acid. This leads to my question: is agmatine safe for men? And what impact does it have on our prostate?
 
Mack411

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In for Coops response!
 
Rostam

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Actually it's one of his posts that reminded me of this possible relation between agmatine and prostate cancer.
 
TyMan14

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Also in for coops response. Good topic here
 
Aleksandar37

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This meta-analysis seems to say differently

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23249186

[h=4]CONCLUSIONS:[/h]The available epidemiologic evidence is weak because of the limited number of studies and their methodological limitations, but nonetheless, the results suggest that ARA exposure is not associated with increased breast and prostate cancer risk. Further evidence from well-designed observational studies is required to confirm or refute the association between ARA exposure and risk of cancer.
 
Ballesteri

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18343442

CONCLUSIONS:


Evolving data suggest a significant role for some areas of the arachidonic acid pathway in prostate cancer. Inhibiting 1 or a number of these enzymes in combination may hold promise for future prostate cancer treatment

http://www.prostateforum.com/about-dr-myers.html

Myers major activities revolved around prostate cancer treatment and research. His laboratory research was focused on why a diet high in animal fat appears to foster progression in prostate cancer. His research group demonstrated that a fatty acid, arachidonic acid, common in meat, dairy products, and egg yolks promotes the survival and growth of human prostate cancer cells. They showed that arachidonic acid is converted to a hormone, 5-HETE, which appears to foster the spread of prostate cancer.
 

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Just as an experienced supplement user:If you're > 35 years old....pass on it...nothing is worth cancer..nothing. If you use it, keep your dosing reasonable. MrBEEF
 
Geoforce

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Subbed for general info.
 
Rostam

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Just as an experienced supplement user:If you're > 35 years old....pass on it...nothing is worth cancer..nothing. If you use it, keep your dosing reasonable. MrBEEF
If there is a risk with it, I would say even young lifters should avoid it, since prostate cancer be present at young age and may remain dormant for several years or there could be non aggressive Low-grade prostate cancer That could be activated by archidonic acid.
 
rhino67jg

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What about taking something like hemavol? I'm 45 & use hemavol twice a week.
 
Rostam

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Agmentine is one of Hemavol ingredients. Therefore same concern.
 

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AIM:

To assess the inhibitory effect of agmatine on tumor growth in vivo and tumor cell proliferation in vitro.


CONCLUSION:

Agmatine had significant inhibitory effect on transplanted tumor growth in vivo and proliferation of tumor cells in vitro, and the mechanism might be a result of inducing decrease of intracellular polyamine contents.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15842783
 
Aleksandar37

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18343442

CONCLUSIONS:


Evolving data suggest a significant role for some areas of the arachidonic acid pathway in prostate cancer. Inhibiting 1 or a number of these enzymes in combination may hold promise for future prostate cancer treatment

http://www.prostateforum.com/about-dr-myers.html

Myers major activities revolved around prostate cancer treatment and research. His laboratory research was focused on why a diet high in animal fat appears to foster progression in prostate cancer. His research group demonstrated that a fatty acid, arachidonic acid, common in meat, dairy products, and egg yolks promotes the survival and growth of human prostate cancer cells. They showed that arachidonic acid is converted to a hormone, 5-HETE, which appears to foster the spread of prostate cancer.
This is also a meta-study, meaning that they did not actually do any experiments. They searched pubmed and wrote a paper. Also, they are looking at the Arachidonic acid pathway and how they can manipulate it to prevent prostate cancer. Go here and look at figure #2 http://prostate-cancer.org/what-we-should-have-learned-about-prostate-cancer-pc-in-the-past-10-years/

This thread is making huge leaps and is only going to lead to fear backed up with no data, just like the whole DAA thing. 1) Agmatine supplementation is not Arachidonic Acid supplementation. Yes there is a connection, but not the same thing and you cannot just cite AA studies to say that agmatine is dangerous. 2) None of these studies is saying that AA supplementation is going to increase your risk of prostate cancer. The pathway has more than one branch.
 

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Arachidonic acid is not causative of cancer. If you have cancer (or a genetic mutation that predisposes you [2-hit hypothesis]), then ArA supplementation may not be the best idea.
 

mr.cooper69

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This is also a meta-study, meaning that they did not actually do any experiments. They searched pubmed and wrote a paper. Also, they are looking at the Arachidonic acid pathway and how they can manipulate it to prevent prostate cancer. Go here and look at figure #2 http://prostate-cancer.org/what-we-should-have-learned-about-prostate-cancer-pc-in-the-past-10-years/This thread is making huge leaps and is only going to lead to fear backed up with no data, just like the whole DAA thing. 1) Agmatine supplementation is not Arachidonic Acid supplementation. Yes there is a connection, but not the same thing and you cannot just cite AA studies to say that agmatine is dangerous. 2) None of these studies is saying that AA supplementation is going to increase your risk of prostate cancer. The pathway has more than one branch.
Well said. Arachidonic acid has many, many endpoints.
 

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18343442

CONCLUSIONS:


Evolving data suggest a significant role for some areas of the arachidonic acid pathway in prostate cancer. Inhibiting 1 or a number of these enzymes in combination may hold promise for future prostate cancer treatment

http://www.prostateforum.com/about-dr-myers.html

Myers major activities revolved around prostate cancer treatment and research. His laboratory research was focused on why a diet high in animal fat appears to foster progression in prostate cancer. His research group demonstrated that a fatty acid, arachidonic acid, common in meat, dairy products, and egg yolks promotes the survival and growth of human prostate cancer cells. They showed that arachidonic acid is converted to a hormone, 5-HETE, which appears to foster the spread of prostate cancer.
The amount of ArA that gets converted to 5-HETE in vivo is ridiculously low compared to its prime metabolites. You have to remember cancer is first and foremost a genetic disease.
 
Rostam

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Arachidonic acid is not causative of cancer. If you have cancer (or a genetic mutation that predisposes you [2-hit hypothesis]), then ArA supplementation may not be the best idea.
You know that most prostate Cancer remain dormant for many years. And you are saying to stay away from ARA in case of cancer. Therefore potentially every body should stay away from ARA or agmatine since nobody knows for sure if there are some cancerous cell in their body or if they are genetically prone to cancer. This is not a suggestion but just a thought
 
Rostam

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This thread is making huge leaps and is only going to lead to fear backed up with no data, just like the whole DAA thing. 1) Agmatine supplementation is not Arachidonic Acid supplementation. Yes there is a connection, but not the same thing and you cannot just cite AA studies to say that agmatine is dangerous. 2) None of these studies is saying that AA supplementation is going to increase your risk of prostate cancer. The pathway has more than one branch.
We are not saying ARA is dangerous. We don't know. I just raised a point.
I do not have any data saying it is dangerous. But does any body have any data proving it is safe?
 
Aleksandar37

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We are not saying ARA is dangerous. We don't know. I just raised a point.
I do not have any data saying it is dangerous. But does any body have any data proving it is safe?
I take no issue with bringing up health and safety concerns, but it is reckless to start holding up a supplement and saying the word cancer. Your original post makes some pretty specific and damaging claims. Can you please at least give us a source of where you are getting these claims from?
 
Aleksandar37

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We are not saying ARA is dangerous. We don't know. I just raised a point.
I do not have any data saying it is dangerous. But does any body have any data proving it is safe?
Also, again, which supplement are we debating here? Agmatine or ARA? They are not one in the same and should not be used interchangeably.
 

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You know that most prostate Cancer remain dormant for many years. And you are saying to stay away from ARA in case of cancer. Therefore potentially every body should stay away from ARA or agmatine since nobody knows for sure if there are some cancerous cell in their body or if they are genetically prone to cancer. This is not a suggestion but just a thought

90% of autopsies in men who died of natural causes reveal that the individual had prostate cancer (not the cause of death).


ArA is an EFA used for a ton of signaling pathways, and many individuals who supplement fish oil can disrupt the ratio of epa/dha to ara over time. The key has always been balance, and a brief run of ArA will transiently increase the ArA ratio before returning back to a "balanced" state thereafer.


Agmatine is a completely different story and it would be illogical to extrapolate prostate cancer data to agmatine. To put the scale in perspective, it's like saying sunlight causes skin cancer, therefore going for a walk will cause skin cancer.


Btw, you persian? I noticed the rostam username
 
Rostam

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I take no issue with bringing up health and safety concerns, but it is reckless to start holding up a supplement and saying the word cancer. Your original post makes some pretty specific and damaging claims. Can you please at least give us a source of where you are getting these claims from?
What claims are you talking about? Read my post, there was no claim in it, only questions and concerns.
 
Aleksandar37

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Since few years companies are promoting Agmatine. And based on the user feedback it seems that it's working well for pump, vascularity and hypertrophy. But how safe is it in regard to prostate health? It seems that Agmatine increases synthesis of arachidonic acid in the body. Now It has been shown that arachidonic acid stimulates the growth of prostate cancer cells. Studies show that incidences of prostate cancer is greatest in regions with high consumption of foods rich in arachidonic acid. This leads to my question: is agmatine safe for men? And what impact does it have on our prostate?
Umm...those
 
kenpoengineer

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Rostam

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Umm...those
These are not claims but facts. Agmatine increase the synthesis of ARA, this is not a claim but a fact. And studies have linked ARA to possible increased rate of cancer, again this not a claim. there are plenty of study about that. You can have a look at Pubmed.
 
Ballesteri

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18343442

CONCLUSIONS:


Evolving data suggest a significant role for some areas of the arachidonic acid pathway in prostate cancer. Inhibiting 1 or a number of these enzymes in combination may hold promise for future prostate cancer treatment.

http://www.prostateforum.com/about-dr-myers.html

Myers major activities revolved around prostate cancer treatment and research. His laboratory research was focused on why a diet high in animal fat appears to foster progression in prostate cancer. His research group demonstrated that a fatty acid, arachidonic acid, common in meat, dairy products, and egg yolks promotes the survival and growth of human prostate cancer cells. They showed that arachidonic acid is converted to a hormone, 5-HETE, which appears to foster the spread of prostate cancer.
Watching this thread due to my age of 52 and my use of agmatine. Here is a link to what I think is the research:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18343442/
...
 
Aleksandar37

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These are not claims but facts. Agmatine increase the synthesis of ARA, this is not a claim but a fact. And studies have linked ARA to possible increased rate of cancer, again this not a claim. there are plenty of study about that. You can have a look at Pubmed.
And I will continue to call this complete bull**** and say that you are using scare tactics based on not a single shread of evidence until you post studies to back up your claims. And please post papers that you have actually read, not random abstracts from pubmed. This board is meant to educate, not to make wild claims backed up by no data which will only serve to confuse and cause fear when there is none.
 
kevinhy

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These are not claims but facts. Agmatine increase the synthesis of ARA, this is not a claim but a fact. And studies have linked ARA to possible increased rate of cancer, again this not a claim. there are plenty of study about that. You can have a look at Pubmed.
Agmatine isn't going to give you cancer. I don't want to be the meat head that goes "durp, take this it's completely safe!"...except that is the case here.

To me, what you're saying is - "don't work out, because working out raises Testosterone, and that causes prostate cancer"
 
Rostam

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And I will continue to call this complete bull**** and say that you are using scare tactics based on not a single shread of evidence until you post studies to back up your claims. And please post papers that you have actually read, not random abstracts from pubmed. This board is meant to educate, not to make wild claims backed up by no data which will only serve to confuse and cause fear when there is none.
Then don't waist your time in this Thread.
 
Aleksandar37

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Then don't waist your time in this Thread.
I'm a fan of keeping the board full of facts and actually backing up claims with research, so I will be staying thanks!!!
 
Rostam

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Agmatine isn't going to give you cancer. I don't want to be the meat head that goes "durp, take this it's completely safe!"...except that is the case here.

To me, what you're saying is - "don't work out, because working out raises Testosterone, and that causes prostate cancer"
People are free to beleave what ever they want. If you 100% confident with whatever product you take then this is fine. For my part I prefer to raise questions even if it does not plese most of people. I'm not claiming anything I just presented some facts. this is a fact that Agmatine increases the sysnthesis of ARA. and based on various studies it seems that ARA contribute to prostate cancer or at least to it's progression. I did not force anybody to stop using agmatine or any other product.
 
EatMoar

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In for a real study and real answers. Ill hop on for some research in a bit.
 
Aleksandar37

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People are free to beleave what ever they want. If you 100% confident with whatever product you take then this is fine. For my part I prefer to raise questions even if it does not plese most of people. I'm not claiming anything I just presented some facts. this is a fact that Agmatine increases the sysnthesis of ARA. and based on various studies it seems that ARA contribute to prostate cancer or at least to it's progression. I did not force anybody to stop using agmatine or any other product.
For the last time, your opinions are not facts! You have yet to cite a single source and we can not have a productive debate unless you do. Saying they are facts over and over again does not make it true!
 
Aleksandar37

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Since few years companies are promoting Agmatine. And based on the user feedback it seems that it's working well for pump, vascularity and hypertrophy. But how safe is it in regard to prostate health? It seems that Agmatine increases synthesis of arachidonic acid in the body. Now It has been shown that arachidonic acid stimulates the growth of prostate cancer cells. Studies show that incidences of prostate cancer is greatest in regions with high consumption of foods rich in arachidonic acid. This leads to my question: is agmatine safe for men? And what impact does it have on our prostate?
I highlighted your 3 original claims (again). Do you have studies or even a webpage or even a wikipedia page or even anything to back these claims up? This should not be that hard to understand.
 
Rostam

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Do you need a study to show you the mechanism of action of agmatine?
 
Rostam

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Moretti RM, Montagnani MM, Sala A, Motta M, Limonta P. Activation of the orphan nuclear receptor RORalpha counteracts the proliferative effect of fatty acids on prostate cancer cells: crucial role of 5-lipoxygenase. Int J Cancer. 2004 Oct 20;112(1):87-93.

Hassan S, Carraway RE. Involvement of arachidonic acid metabolism and EGF receptor in neurotensin-induced prostate cancer PC3 cell growth. Regul Pept. 2006 Jan 15;133(1-3):105-14.

Ghosh J, Myers CE. Arachidonic acid stimulates prostate cancer cell growth: critical role of 5-lipoxygenase. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1997 Jun 18;235(2):418-23.

Ghosh J. Inhibition of arachidonate 5-lipoxygenase triggers prostate cancer cell death through rapid activation of c-Jun N-terminal kinase. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2003 Jul 25;307(2):342-9.
 
EasyEJL

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You know that most prostate Cancer remain dormant for many years. And you are saying to stay away from ARA in case of cancer. Therefore potentially every body should stay away from ARA or agmatine since nobody knows for sure if there are some cancerous cell in their body or if they are genetically prone to cancer. This is not a suggestion but just a thought
by the same logic, everyone should avoid carbohydrates as carbohydrates as fuel are a major part of tumor growth as well, and tumors grow far slower in a low carb environment :)
 
Aleksandar37

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Moretti RM, Montagnani MM, Sala A, Motta M, Limonta P. Activation of the orphan nuclear receptor RORalpha counteracts the proliferative effect of fatty acids on prostate cancer cells: crucial role of 5-lipoxygenase. Int J Cancer. 2004 Oct 20;112(1):87-93.

Hassan S, Carraway RE. Involvement of arachidonic acid metabolism and EGF receptor in neurotensin-induced prostate cancer PC3 cell growth. Regul Pept. 2006 Jan 15;133(1-3):105-14.

Ghosh J, Myers CE. Arachidonic acid stimulates prostate cancer cell growth: critical role of 5-lipoxygenase. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1997 Jun 18;235(2):418-23.

Ghosh J. Inhibition of arachidonate 5-lipoxygenase triggers prostate cancer cell death through rapid activation of c-Jun N-terminal kinase. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2003 Jul 25;307(2):342-9.
And you have read these? Thank you for posting studies on 5-lipoxygenase and its possible role in prostate cancer. Now, maybe answer what I actually asked?
 
Aleksandar37

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by the same logic, everyone should avoid carbohydrates as carbohydrates as fuel are a major part of tumor growth as well, and tumors grow far slower in a low carb environment :)
Breathing too! :p
 
Rostam

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Actually carbohydrates do fuel tumor grouth. But ingesting or not carbohydrate is a personal choice. Same for ARA or agmatine :)
 
DAdams91982

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This thread is ironic. On a forum that most are okay with hitting peptides up like candy (IGF). :D
 
Lutztenways

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90% of autopsies in men who died of natural causes reveal that the individual had prostate cancer (not the cause of death).
This statement seemed so outlandish that I googled it....I found some .com and .org soruces that seem to back up the info. Shocking fact imo.

"Autopsies in 70-year-old patients show that 46% of males have prostate cancer, but fortunately, it is very slow growing compared to other cancers. About 90% of prostate cancers remain latent over decades. Microscopic foci of adenocarcinoma can be found in 85-90% of men over 80 years of age, which confirms that most men with prostate cancer die from causes unrelated to the malignant tumour."

So while I'm not even close to being convinced that agmatine has anything to do with prostate cancer, you can learn something new in every thread.
 
kevinhy

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People are free to beleave what ever they want. If you 100% confident with whatever product you take then this is fine. For my part I prefer to raise questions even if it does not plese most of people. I'm not claiming anything I just presented some facts. this is a fact that Agmatine increases the sysnthesis of ARA. and based on various studies it seems that ARA contribute to prostate cancer or at least to it's progression. I did not force anybody to stop using agmatine or any other product.
And by that logic lifting weights increases Testosterone, which is implicated in prostate cancer. So you don't lift weights because you're scared of cancer?

Or I'll take it a step further in your logic - lifting weights increases Testosterone, which increases the substrate for estrogen in the male body, which is also implicated in cancer.

Brb, canceling gym membership cause of cancer.
 

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