Classic Kleen - The Road To Competition Fall 2024

MrKleen73 said:
Agreed, and he really cares for his athletes. In his videos of him at the competitions you can hear him screaming for his guys. Getting all kinds of worked up and truly excited for them. That in and of itself tells how he feels about what he does, and the people he works with.
Yes Sir, It has calmed down a lot and I probably could have squatted if I held a little back but I thought it would be better not to push the back and pick an exercise I could still push my legs hard on. Same with the RDL, I could have felt it out and done some sub-optimal work on it, or I could pick an unloaded exercise I could safely take to the point of failure and blast the target muscle. All my hamstring and lower back know if they got worked hard. They have no idea what exercise it was that worked them that hard. I definitely feel like I will be okay for some rack pulls Friday, but will be feeling them out. Also going to watch some videos to see if I can get a better breakdown of the set up. I may also lay some mats down on the above knee pull that was too short to see if I can get the height in between my first and second set.

Thanks, yeah, I am pretty excited myself. I feel I am in a great place right now with a pretty nice shape. Rounding out some of these muscles will go a long way to really bringing things out. I also noticed that the outside of my arms seems to hold some fat compared to the rest, same with the area between my triceps and shoulders. So a little more fat loss will really make my delts and triceps pop even without a ton of growth. Which is going to be exciting to see than when we start adding slabs of meat, things are really going to get exciting.

I am going to go give blood in Rocket's memory today. Will be a nice thing to do for him and someone who needs it.
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Yeah, I’m giving blood tomorrow in honor of Rocket.👍💪🚀
 
When I donated last time, I was thinking of Rocket when I didn’t want to be there. How he was going basically every day to receive donations to keep him going so he could come home to his wife & see his grandkids longer. I figured if he can do that daily, it’s no big deal for me to do it once in a blue moon.
 
Hyde said:
When I donated last time, I was thinking of Rocket when I didn’t want to be there. How he was going basically every day to receive donations to keep him going so he could come home to his wife & see his grandkids longer. I figured if he can do that daily, it’s no big deal for me to do it once in a blue moon.
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it really is such a simple task and so beneficial to do. I think a lot of people don’t understand how much blood is needed. I have the perfect blood to donate (forget what exactly - I can donate to anybody and a specific type that basically lets me donate to sick babies is how it was described) but unfortunately half the time I try, they turn me away because my heart rate so I got away from even trying it.
I’m much healthier cardiovascularly now so I need to start trying again (and I have some propranolol to lower it if needed)
 
Hyde said:
When I donated last time, I was thinking of Rocket when I didn’t want to be there. How he was going basically every day to receive donations to keep him going so he could come home to his wife & see his grandkids longer. I figured if he can do that daily, it’s no big deal for me to do it once in a blue moon.
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Agreed, it went well, HCT was at 50, not bad at all for not donating in a while and being on cycle. BP 130/74, not bad at all considering I get stressed out as soon as they take me in that room for the questions and testing. I have no idea why, but I just start getting very anxious until they tell me okay, lets get you in a chair. It has always been the case. I just feel like something is going to go wrong and they tell me I wasted my time and a trip. I know it doesn't make sense but it is what it is. My BP has been averaging 120-130 / 70-78

I also found out I no longer need orders as long as they know I am on TRT. I used to have to have phlebotomy orders because of the TRT. So that is nice that I won't have to jump through the hoops of getting one again.

I have to get in 25 minutes of cardio here in a bit. So much fun! It's the have to do workout stuff, not the want to do stuff.
 
rascal14 said:
it really is such a simple task and so beneficial to do. I think a lot of people don’t understand how much blood is needed. I have the perfect blood to donate (forget what exactly - I can donate to anybody and a specific type that basically lets me donate to sick babies is how it was described) but unfortunately half the time I try, they turn me away because my heart rate so I got away from even trying it.
I’m much healthier cardiovascularly now so I need to start trying again (and I have some propranolol to lower it if needed)
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Yeah, maybe you can manage this time. Give it a shot, it's for Rocket, he is worth one more possible let down. ;)

Cool thing they gave me a nice fleece blanket for donating too.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yeah, maybe you can manage this time. Give it a shot, it's for Rocket, he is worth one more possible let down. ;)

Cool thing they gave me a nice fleece blanket for donating too.
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oh I’ll load up on all the Rx’s if I have to in order to get a donation in for Rocket!!
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yeah, maybe you can manage this time. Give it a shot, it's for Rocket, he is worth one more possible let down. ;)

Cool thing they gave me a nice fleece blanket for donating too.
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Yeah, and I’ve thought about how Rocket after they first told him he was in remission and went home, he would still get in any kind of workout he could and try to eat right, even after all that. He was very dedicated and just shows people, no matter your situation you can always do something for exercise and trying to get healthier. And I can almost guarantee that if something had happened to one of us, if he was able, he would be one of the first to give.
 
rascal14 said:
I asked my dad after posting because couldn’t remember, it is that in addition to (I think) Rh- ? He couldn’t remember either
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I don't know a whole lot beyond that. I am not even sure what my type is. My wife had to have a c-section with her twins who were born very small and so she became a temporary expert for a while, that's essentially been my source of information in this topic lol.
 
rascal14 said:
it really is such a simple task and so beneficial to do. I think a lot of people don’t understand how much blood is needed. I have the perfect blood to donate (forget what exactly - I can donate to anybody and a specific type that basically lets me donate to sick babies is how it was described) but unfortunately half the time I try, they turn me away because my heart rate so I got away from even trying it.
I’m much healthier cardiovascularly now so I need to start trying again (and I have some propranolol to lower it if needed)
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Can I not donate because of THE DEVIL’S LETTUCE 🥬?
 
PolishHamm3r77 said:
Can I not donate because of THE DEVIL’S LETTUCE 🥬?
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That's the Church Lady name for it.
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Surely you mean Angel's Grass because it is heavenly...

Also no that does not disqualify you. Admitting steroid use however will... So keep that for confession! ;)
 
Dustin07 said:
that's how I got banned from MLB< I swear. had a blood transfusion and tested positive for PEDs.
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Consider yourself lucky, if you were an MLB player you probably wouldn't have met your beautiful wife.
 
11/15/23 - Macros - Fats are a little low, and carbs a little high here but calories on point. I realized I have been doing my morning shake wrong being on autopilot when I first wake up. I was still getting my macros correct by adjusting the intake at the end of the day. He took the Honey out of my morning shake and I somehow missed it. So I was getting in 21g of sugar where he wanted starches but it is not a huge deal. As of now I am back on track.

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11/16/23 - Fasted Weight 197.6 - BOOM! First time hitting my weigh in weight mid week. Things are starting to move again.

Shoulders & Triceps (Thurs) Nov 16, 2023 at 4:31am

Shoulder Press (Machine Plates)
Set 1: 60 lbs x 11 @ 10 rpe - goal was 10, going up next time.
Set 2: 40 lbs x 12 @ fail + 3 partials to get 15 - stay here

Standing Lateral Raise
"Got all 10, this time and only 2 partials for 20"
Set 1: 30 lbs x 20 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 3: 50 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe - up one rep from last week
Set 4: 30 lbs x 18 @ fail + 2 partials to get to 20
Going to see if I can find the 1lb DB's at the house and add them to the stack to go up in weight. otherwise I only have a 10lb jump option.

Incline DB Rear Delt Flyes
Set 1: 15 lbs x 20 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 2: 15 lbs x 18 @ fail + 2 partials
Set 3: 15 lbs x 17 @ fail + 3 partials - Crap these were brutal, done as swings.

Upright Row
Set 1: 95 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe
Set 2: 55 lbs x 15 @ 9 rpe
Set 3: 55 lbs x 13 @ fail + 2 partials
Set 4: 55 lbs x 12 @ fail + 3 partials - Holy Pump Batman! Shoulders looking like pumpkins after this session! I will go down to 45 on these until I can get the last 3 x 15 then add weight.

Cross Cable Tricep Extension
Set 1: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 40 lbs x 12 @ fail + 3 partials - These really get me good now that I have the form down. I feel them more in my lateral head of my triceps which is what needs the work. So perfect exercise here for my needs.

PowerTec Dip Attachment
Set 1: 180 lbs x 20 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 2: 180 lbs x 18 @ fail RP@15, 3 + 2 partials - My triceps were blown out. Huge pump, and serious contractions here.

I am enjoying the sessions and pushing myself this hard. This is my bread and butter style here. Gradually lowering intensity to what the aim is. Just taking some adjustments to do it. On non top sets I want to be failing on the final set only. Just be close on the rest of them. Once I get the weights needed to do this down I will be good to go. Just new stimulus for me so hard to tell where I should be with the weights.
 
These sessions are looking so good. this is what a great bro sesh looks like!!
toss in some jack3d, 3hrs worth of intra carbs and all 80s rock mix tape and this thing could rock a garage until the neighbors are pounding on the door.

MrKleen73 said:
Standing Lateral Raise
"Got all 10, this time and only 2 partials for 20"
Set 1: 30 lbs x 20 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 3: 50 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe - up one rep from last week
Set 4: 30 lbs x 18 @ fail + 2 partials to get to 20
Going to see if I can find the 1lb DB's at the house and add them to the stack to go up in weight. otherwise I only have a 10lb jump option.
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explain this one to me, are you running 2 x 40lb dbs on these? I know @GreenMachineX had brought up the laterals before and I'm wondering if you and I are calling the same thing laterals cause I'm maxing out at 40s right now (although it's a hypertrophy lift for me so I'm ok with repping 30s to failure) but 40s are quite heavy considering you are treating the big lifts with more caution and higher reps so that just seems disproportionately high to your other lifts.
 
MrKleen73 said:
11/15/23 - Macros - Fats are a little low, and carbs a little high here but calories on point. I realized I have been doing my morning shake wrong being on autopilot when I first wake up. I was still getting my macros correct by adjusting the intake at the end of the day. He took the Honey out of my morning shake and I somehow missed it. So I was getting in 21g of sugar where he wanted starches but it is not a huge deal. As of now I am back on track.

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================================================================================

11/16/23 - Fasted Weight 197.6 - BOOM! First time hitting my weigh in weight mid week. Things are starting to move again.

Shoulders & Triceps (Thurs) Nov 16, 2023 at 4:31am

Shoulder Press (Machine Plates)
Set 1: 60 lbs x 11 @ 10 rpe - goal was 10, going up next time.
Set 2: 40 lbs x 12 @ fail + 3 partials to get 15 - stay here

Standing Lateral Raise
"Got all 10, this time and only 2 partials for 20"
Set 1: 30 lbs x 20 @ 8.5 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 3: 50 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe - up one rep from last week
Set 4: 30 lbs x 18 @ fail + 2 partials to get to 20
Going to see if I can find the 1lb DB's at the house and add them to the stack to go up in weight. otherwise I only have a 10lb jump option.

Incline DB Rear Delt Flyes
Set 1: 15 lbs x 20 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 2: 15 lbs x 18 @ fail + 2 partials
Set 3: 15 lbs x 17 @ fail + 3 partials - Crap these were brutal, done as swings.

Upright Row
Set 1: 95 lbs x 10 @ 10 rpe
Set 2: 55 lbs x 15 @ 9 rpe
Set 3: 55 lbs x 13 @ fail + 2 partials
Set 4: 55 lbs x 12 @ fail + 3 partials - Holy Pump Batman! Shoulders looking like pumpkins after this session! I will go down to 45 on these until I can get the last 3 x 15 then add weight.

Cross Cable Tricep Extension
Set 1: 40 lbs x 15 @ 9 rpe
Set 2: 40 lbs x 15 @ 10 rpe
Set 3: 40 lbs x 12 @ fail + 3 partials - These really get me good now that I have the form down. I feel them more in my lateral head of my triceps which is what needs the work. So perfect exercise here for my needs.

PowerTec Dip Attachment
Set 1: 180 lbs x 20 @ 9.5 rpe
Set 2: 180 lbs x 18 @ fail RP@15, 3 + 2 partials - My triceps were blown out. Huge pump, and serious contractions here.

I am enjoying the sessions and pushing myself this hard. This is my bread and butter style here. Gradually lowering intensity to what the aim is. Just taking some adjustments to do it. On non top sets I want to be failing on the final set only. Just be close on the rest of them. Once I get the weights needed to do this down I will be good to go. Just new stimulus for me so hard to tell where I should be with the weights.
Click to expand...
You’re gonna have bowling ball delts with all that volume.💪
 
Dustin07 said:
These sessions are looking so good. this is what a great bro sesh looks like!!
toss in some jack3d, 3hrs worth of intra carbs and all 80s rock mix tape and this thing could rock a garage until the neighbors are pounding on the door.



explain this one to me, are you running 2 x 40lb dbs on these? I know @GreenMachineX had brought up the laterals before and I'm wondering if you and I are calling the same thing laterals cause I'm maxing out at 40s right now (although it's a hypertrophy lift for me so I'm ok with repping 30s to failure) but 40s are quite heavy considering you are treating the big lifts with more caution and higher reps so that just seems disproportionately high to your other lifts.
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Oh yeah, and my "gym mate" the only person there before me in the morning always has motivational speaker soundbites playing over some theatrical music. At first it was kind of like Ugh... just put some music on, now it is like when he has music on I am like where is my motivational ass kicking? People like David Goggins, Jocko and the like just saying bad ass motivating things. Now it pumps me up even more. Sometimes I still like to toss in my earbuds and get buck, but I also really enjoy hearing these guys, and they really motivate me and create a positive mindset.
gphagan1 said:
You’re gonna have bowling ball delts with all that volume.💪
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I sure hope so! I have to be honest, I don't feel like I have tons of weak points. My chest is okay, could be a little bigger but not a weak point so to speak. Delts have come a long way in the last couple of months and should continue to grow with this volume. So I am thinking as has been said in here I am in a pretty good spot for 10-12 months out. Depending on what show we end up putting our hat into. I imagine he might ask me to do one show a little earlier for a practice run, but I am thinking of the NPC Texas State which is probably going to be around this time next year.

As an example of what my competition will likely look like, this was the Masters 35 and up winner
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This is the Masters over 45 winner

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I am a bit more worried about the over 45 winner than the over 35 winner. LOL he has some chiseled legs, and a great shape with full muscle bellies. I ain't skeered though!!!

The people in 2nd were definitely a step or two below both of these guys. However this is one of the biggest NPC shows in Texas, it is both a national and a Pro Qualifier as well as has a pro show with it.
 
Oh yeah @Dustin07 That is the Standing Lateral Raise Machine from Arsenal, so the weight is just one weight for both arms. Basically starting at 15lbs per arm and working up to 25lbs per arm.
 
Just for the shiz and giggles of it, this was the overall winner in the Classic Open

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Now he looks awesome! I could see him getting his pro card soon. Great lines, symmetry, size and conditioning. Total package.
 
jimbuick said:
You’ve inspired me. I’m about to call Pat and see if we can’t work something out around my work life.
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Do it, he has been advertising recently he is accepting new clients right now but will be cutting it off soon because he has a cap on how many he can handle.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I am a bit more worried about the over 45 winner than the over 35 winner. LOL he has some chiseled legs, and a great shape with full muscle bellies. I ain't skeered though!!!
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F'in A dude! no joke I saw the 35+ and thought holyshit I need to get conditioned I could take this class. then I saw the 45+ and I was like, damn I only have 3.5 years until I gotta face that! 😅😅

jimbuick said:
You’ve inspired me. I’m about to call Pat and see if we can’t work something out around my work life.
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no joke!
 
what weight class is that again? the 35+ guy is legit looking good but is not intimidating. Seems to be missing some fullness and the conditioning is incredibly achievable. He almost looks natty. his biceps would be my biggest competition but conditioning wise that was my walk around condition for years. those pics almost make me want to make a run at it.

(I say that now, but cutting 8% bf is going to make me look very different so...)
 
MrKleen73 said:
Oh yeah, and my "gym mate" the only person there before me in the morning always has motivational speaker soundbites playing over some theatrical music. At first it was kind of like Ugh... just put some music on, now it is like when he has music on I am like where is my motivational ass kicking? People like David Goggins, Jocko and the like just saying bad ass motivating things. Now it pumps me up even more. Sometimes I still like to toss in my earbuds and get buck, but I also really enjoy hearing these guys, and they really motivate me and create a positive mindset.
I sure hope so! I have to be honest, I don't feel like I have tons of weak points. My chest is okay, could be a little bigger but not a weak point so to speak. Delts have come a long way in the last couple of months and should continue to grow with this volume. So I am thinking as has been said in here I am in a pretty good spot for 10-12 months out. Depending on what show we end up putting our hat into. I imagine he might ask me to do one show a little earlier for a practice run, but I am thinking of the NPC Texas State which is probably going to be around this time next year.

As an example of what my competition will likely look like, this was the Masters 35 and up winner
Invalid Link Removed
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This is the Masters over 45 winner

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

I am a bit more worried about the over 45 winner than the over 35 winner. LOL he has some chiseled legs, and a great shape with full muscle bellies. I ain't skeered though!!!

The people in 2nd were definitely a step or two below both of these guys. However this is one of the biggest NPC shows in Texas, it is both a national and a Pro Qualifier as well as has a pro show with it.
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Man, with where you’re at now and the time you have, I think you would do very well at that show. And the over 45 winner definitely looks better than the over 35, but I could see you winning that show.💪🏆
 
Dustin07 said:
what weight class is that again? the 35+ guy is legit looking good but is not intimidating. Seems to be missing some fullness and the conditioning is incredibly achievable. He almost looks natty. his biceps would be my biggest competition but conditioning wise that was my walk around condition for years. those pics almost make me want to make a run at it.

(I say that now, but cutting 8% bf is going to make me look very different so...)
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Well if you were training for hypertrophy specifically for a bit you would be more full before cutting down too. For classic the weight cap is 5'7-5'8 187, 5'8-5'9 194, basically it goes up 7lbs per inch of height. So if you are 5'9 and any change that would be 201lbs cap, but you can be just about any weight under that. I imagine the first guy probably has a little room for his weight cap. However, he still won his class so that tells you something.
 
gphagan1 said:
Man, with where you’re at now and the time you have, I think you would do very well at that show. And the over 45 winner definitely looks better than the over 35, but I could see you winning that show.💪🏆
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Yeah, I think depending on how things go when we get close to the show I may even toss my hat into the open classic if I am looking sick AF which I think from where I am and with the condition my coach brings his guys in that I will be a contender even in there with the young guns. We shall see, but I am definitely excited about it. Pictures and coaches opinion will be the big factors there. If he is confident I will do well then I will trust him.
 
MrKleen73 said:
5'8-5'9 194, basically it goes up 7lbs per inch of height. So if you are 5'9 and any change that would be 201lbs cap, but you can be just about any weight under that. I imagine the first guy probably has a little room for his weight cap. However, he still won his class so that tells you something.
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that's where I'd get into trouble, I'd be 5'9" and change, but weighing in at 198-200lbs now I'd be very very had pressed to weigh even 180 fully conditioned and mostly natty I think. I'm definitely holding more muscle than before but if i'm say 16% at 198 now that's 32lbs of fat. even at 8% I'd only weigh 182. so if I were competing with a coach and a year of prep work like you are doing.... maybe. MAYBE I could be conditioned sub 8% at 180-182. MAYBE.

actually I always overly cut. with the discipline of a coach I might hold more mass. 🤔
 
jimbuick said:
I already did. And paid. Gonna work with him through at least Mar 1.
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Yeah you have to do the 3 months up front first. It was a chunk but I made it work.
 
I would also be curious to see what your plans look like compared to mine just out of curiosity.
 
Dustin07 said:
how much is 3 months? I assume he's covering nutrition, gear, and training protocol?
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It's $200 a month with the first 3 months a mandatory commitment so $600. Yes on all 3 that even includes Contest prep.
 
Dustin07 said:
the 35+ guy is legit looking good but is not intimidating. He almost looks natty.

(I say that now, but cutting 8% bf is going to make me look very different so...)
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Lol, no.

You hit the crux of the matter in your last sentence right there - you will not be able to present that kind of size and fullness at 8% bodyfat naturally. The body doesn’t retain that kind of volumization in that kind of deficit. Pro natural bodybuilders do not look like that on stage.

Dustin07 said:
that's where I'd get into trouble, I'd be 5'9" and change, but weighing in at 198-200lbs now I'd be very very had pressed to weigh even 180 fully conditioned and mostly natty I think. I'm definitely holding more muscle than before but if i'm say 16% at 198 now that's 32lbs of fat. even at 8% I'd only weigh 182. so if I were competing with a coach and a year of prep work like you are doing.... maybe. MAYBE I could be conditioned sub 8% at 180-182. MAYBE.

actually I always overly cut. with the discipline of a coach I might hold more mass.
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If you compete in an untested fed, you will need to use gear if you hope to even be competitive.

MrKleen73 said:
It's $200 a month with the first 3 months a mandatory commitment so $600. Yes on all 3 that even includes Contest prep.
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That’s a great price for bodybuilding.
 
Hyde said:
The body doesn’t retain that kind of volumization in that kind of deficit. Pro natural bodybuilders do not look like that on stage.
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I always see 2 major difference in natty guys vs the big guys;
smaller muscle groups are at a major loss (lats, biceps etc are clearly always smaller in natty guys)
deflated. natty bodybuilders are often poorly prepped leading into stage day compared to geared guys.

Layne being one of the best natty guys out there IMO has always had great control over #2, but you can still see even on his top level #1.
 
Dustin07 said:
Dude that sounds really great for serious contest prep. I almost expected triple. Or at least $1200 for the 3 months.
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Yeah, I was pretty surprised when I asked him what the difference was for prep and he said it was all $200 a month.
akboom87 said:
Will he be at the contest with you?
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I am not sure, I have seen him at other contests with his competitors.
rascal14 said:
$200/mo is very good for a prep coach I believe. Most online coaches are $150-$200 without prep
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Yeah that is a pretty basic price. He does mostly in person training, and I am sure as he gets more and more popular his prices will go up, or will go up for prep at least.
Hyde said:
Lol, no.

You hit the crux of the matter in your last sentence right there - you will not be able to present that kind of size and fullness at 8% bodyfat naturally. The body doesn’t retain that kind of volumization in that kind of deficit. Pro natural bodybuilders do not look like that on stage.



If you compete in an untested fed, you will need to use gear if you hope to even be competitive.



That’s a great price for bodybuilding.
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We had some pretty gnarly looking guys on stage that looked better than that top guy when I did my natural competition. However, I am not sure how many of them were actually natural other than myself. At least back then there were a lot of fake nattys, and that is about the only time a fake natty bothers me is when it comes to competitions. If you use gear then compete in a tested fed and if you can't compete with those guys you just aren't ready yet. Wait a year or two and build yourself into someone who can compete in untested successfully.
jimbuick said:
I’d imagine a bit less strict since I’m a “lifestyle” client and not a competitor.
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Yeah, on the diet for sure, well maybe anyway. The training is what I am more curious about.
jimbuick said:
He does go with clients, but they have to cover his stay if it’s far, from what I understand.
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Ah, one of the shows I am eyeballing is in Austin, so that might be good for me. Otherwise we will have to cross that bridge when we come to it and possibly rely on a ZOOM call for feedback.
Dustin07 said:
I always see 2 major difference in natty guys vs the big guys;
smaller muscle groups are at a major loss (lats, biceps etc are clearly always smaller in natty guys)
deflated. natty bodybuilders are often poorly prepped leading into stage day compared to geared guys.

Layne being one of the best natty guys out there IMO has always had great control over #2, but you can still see even on his top level #1.
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Yeah, like @Hyde said, they can't hold or store glycogen as well as a gear'd person, so they often do not get as lean in an effort to maintain more size and fullness. Otherwise yeah they just aren't as developed 99% of the time.

Training went well this morning, well kind of. I spent about 45 minutes dicking around with setting up the rack pull. My gym buddy is always using the only rack that has safety bars that are adjustable. So I had to figure out an alternative set up which took a bit. I ended up using 2 plyo boxes but they were too tall originally, so I had to move those over and put them on either side of the deadlift platform then drag over 2 5 inch blocks to stand on, on top of the platform just to get the height right. Any way it took a while to gather everything, then warm up carefully and do my sets. So I was not able to complete my session. I only got through leg curls, rack pulls, and 3 sets of chest supported rows. I was smart today and wore my deadlifting belt, and did not hurt myself today which was awesome. I will update the actual session once I have completed my training for the day. I am thinking I am going to take an early lunch today and get the session done. So I will probably go to the gym in about an hour. IE 10:30 AM. Try to beat the lunch crowd in there.
 
Dustin07 said:
I always see 2 major difference in natty guys vs the big guys;
smaller muscle groups are at a major loss (lats, biceps etc are clearly always smaller in natty guys)
deflated. natty bodybuilders are often poorly prepped leading into stage day compared to geared guys.

Layne being one of the best natty guys out there IMO has always had great control over #2, but you can still see even on his top level #1.
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And to Kleen’s point about fake natties, Layne was bodybuilding in the era of designer steroids. You only need to use M1T or Superdrol one time to understand that is all you actually need to prep. There were tons of “natural bodybuilders” taking stronger legal orals than your traditional oral AAS for years in those feds. I remember several at my local gym. They bought everything at the supplement shop, but they weren’t natty. Just not using traditional AAS.

Look at the weights Layne has lifted now & look at his physique now vs his time bodybuilding. The weights he’s lifting now are tested, stronger than ever, & he truly looks to be off gear. Back then…well, let’s just say I’ll believe he was natty then if he competes in bodybuilding again tested and brings a better look now that he’s stronger. But I won’t hold my breath.
 
Hyde said:
Look at the weights Layne has lifted now & look at his physique now vs his time bodybuilding. The weights he’s lifting now are tested, stronger than ever, & he truly looks to be off gear. Back then…well, let’s just say I’ll believe he was natty then if he competes in bodybuilding again tested and brings a better look now that he’s stronger. But I won’t hold my breath.
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solid points across the board
 
Hyde said:
And to Kleen’s point about fake natties, Layne was bodybuilding in the era of designer steroids. You only need to use M1T or Superdrol one time to understand that is all you actually need to prep. There were tons of “natural bodybuilders” taking stronger legal orals than your traditional oral AAS for years in those feds. I remember several at my local gym. They bought everything at the supplement shop, but they weren’t natty. Just not using traditional AAS.

Look at the weights Layne has lifted now & look at his physique now vs his time bodybuilding. The weights he’s lifting now are tested, stronger than ever, & he truly looks to be off gear. Back then…well, let’s just say I’ll believe he was natty then if he competes in bodybuilding again tested and brings a better look now that he’s stronger. But I won’t hold my breath.
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Yeah, and some of them not even designers just straight up gear. I don't see gear as cheating even in college sports. Everyone knows it happens, and everyone has the same opportunity to choose to use. However when there is a natural, and an untested competition, put yourself in the right one. Have a look at some of the guys I was up against, they were meaty for naturals.

If this guy was natty he has some of the greatest genetics.
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It's so crazy to see how flat I was here. Zero fullness. I lost so much weight overnight that night I looked like a different person when i woke up 8lbs lighter from a ridiculous level of conditioning and fullness. Messing with natural diuretics was my downfall. I went to bed at 178 ad change and woke up 169-170. My friend asked me what the hell happened, I just disappeared overnight.
 
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