Classic Kleen - The Road To Competition Fall 2024

[Dustin07]

And because the effective reps research strongly suggests in any given set there can only be 4-5 effective reps for hypertrophy, then there’s no reason to push much higher than, say, 8 reps in a set because doing more than that leads to calcium ion buildup which interferes with muscular contractions.

The total volume is because once you start to experience fatigue (both global and local), you have a harder time achieving effective reps because you can’t actually recruit the fibers maximally. That and you start to butt up against maximal recoverable volume thresholds.

That is an awesome, awesome break down. well explained!
So the theory here then, would be to utilize a weight appropriate to accommodate approximately an 8 or 9 rep max set.
Then with this ideology do you feel that cheater reps and assisted reps lose value due to a build up of calcium ion? that is another issue I've never heard before.

what you say makes sense though. I pound the highest volume into biceps because I feel they are my weakest area visually. I go into a set knowing 10 reps is avg, but I do not stop until I feel it hitting correctly, which may be rep 8 or 9, and then I tend to go to basically like a 2RIR region there. I will slow down the descent to help hit full engagement earlier if possible, but I tend to go right around failure regardless. some days maybe it's 10 reps. others it may be 15.

That’s true, but chest is an outlier for me because I have a hard time activating that muscle group, so I can tolerate more volume because I’m not getting as many effective reps per set for the muscle since it isn’t always maximally firing.

I think that is me with biceps. I can get a good chest pump from my normal bench routine, glutes and hammies pump pretty easy. but biceps take some work so I experiment a lot with reps, form, speed, etc. plus for me the bicep/tricep pump is the most enjoyable (well, along with lats probably lol)

 

[Dustin07]

I have to admit, I don't really know the benefit of a 3-4 rep set to failure other than building strength. However building strength now allows for higher volumes later. So in a block or macrocycle I can see why someone might train for strength to make later hypertrophy work better. Jim might be able to better elucidate what other benefits to hypertrophy such a low rep scheme offers.

I struggle with that too. keep in mind my chest measurement (46") and quads (can't remember at the moment) were the largest they had ever been when I had massive volume to failure on the daily for things as simple as pushups, pull ups, squats etc in the xfit community. but my strength peaked horribly for years.

Then I started setting strength PRs again 12-18 months ago finally but there was severe atrophy and I lost measurable inches in those once larger areas.

But where I might turn full circle here is that I'm filling out the slacks in the glutes and legs again, as well as the lats and arms big time with my current hybrid approach to training. the caveat being that my bf is 6% higher too. so it's hard to say if my strength is yielding size or if it's mostly dietary.

 

[jimbuick]

That is an awesome, awesome break down. well explained!
So the theory here then, would be to utilize a weight appropriate to accommodate approximately an 8 or 9 rep max set.
Then with this ideology do you feel that cheater reps and assisted reps lose value due to a build up of calcium ion? that is another issue I've never heard before.

what you say makes sense though. I pound the highest volume into biceps because I feel they are my weakest area visually. I go into a set knowing 10 reps is avg, but I do not stop until I feel it hitting correctly, which may be rep 8 or 9, and then I tend to go to basically like a 2RIR region there. I will slow down the descent to help hit full engagement earlier if possible, but I tend to go right around failure regardless. some days maybe it's 10 reps. others it may be 15.



I think that is me with biceps. I can get a good chest pump from my normal bench routine, glutes and hammies pump pretty easy. but biceps take some work so I experiment a lot with reps, form, speed, etc. plus for me the bicep/tricep pump is the most enjoyable (well, along with lats probably lol)

Anything more than 4 is probably a good target, but you can certainly go higher. It’s just about getting close to failure to get the full 4-5 effective reps. I tend to try to have a weight that I’d fail around 6 on (just because shooting for 4 doesn’t leave me much room for error with weight selection and makes it more likely that I end up not having the right control to make sure I’m actually doing the exercise in the way that keeps the tension on my target muscle), but I’m fine with a set of 4 or 5 if I overshoot it. If I get 3 or fewer, I tend to turn that into a drop set or something to get the other few effective reps.

Usually I keep the same weight until I end up failing around 9-10 and when that happens I increase the weight to get back to 6ish.

For some exercises, though, I do prefer to target 10. For me those are the ones that tend to be harder to increase weight on (be that because of the machine loading scheme or just the exercise itself, e.g. db lateral raise), but that’s just personal preference stuff at that point.

And intensifiers kinda depends on the exercise. I sometimes like assisted reps for like pec flyes, but they can add a ton of extra fatigue for not a lot of extra stimulus. And I don’t tend to do cheater reps at all as once I lose the ability to maintain my tempo, I’ve hit task failure (which is the goal).

Some exercises (like for muscles that experience stretch mediated hypertrophy), I’ll sometimes add partials, but that’s also not the norm.

 

[Dustin07]

Anything more than 4 is probably a good target, but you can certainly go higher. It’s just about getting close to failure to get the full 4-5 effective reps.

If I get 3 or fewer, I tend to turn that into a drop set or something to get the other few effective reps.

I'm going to give this a try, increase weight on a few accessories and see what the results are. I definitely utilize the drop set method often. if I'm aiming for hypertrophy, my goal is typically to get the pump, maximize the pump, and leave without losing the pump, trying to feed the body protein while still pumpy. It's a simple methodology I live by. ha. but I feel if I go so far as to deplete myself to the point that the pump is fading I've done more than necessary and maybe too much.

 

[jimbuick]

There can be lots of reasons to split some training and can come down to various factors (probably a bit of psychological and physiological), but it probably isn't that unheard of in more advanced athletes.

Highly trained strength athletes (particularly weightlifters) may lift quite heavy several times per day (4-6 hours between sessions), bodybuilders may split body parts or even just the session in general (with some studies showing improved ability to maintain intensity), and just due to scheduling I've known people to double up when they don't have as many days to train or just can't fit stuff all into one. Probably a little different than splitting endurance training from lifting as well, but I know I personally like to split once weekly volume starts to exceed 10 hours of training in the past.

There is also research on "priming" sessions where submaximal work improved peak power and strength output in sessions later.



You are kind of on the right track and if anyone really cares when I get home later I can pull up the relevant studies, but you are oversimplifying it a bit.

There was a big trend for this a couple years ago and people went a bit overboard, but effective reps can still be a decent concept to get your head around some of these things.

This is just a misconception based on trying to boil these things down to quickly, again I'll probably post more when I am not rushing around (because this is interesting and I like this topic).

I’m for sure oversimplifying. Figured it made more sense to just give broad strokes than to try to get too detailed. Just trying to stay with the actionable info that I use for my training more than anything else.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah, the reality is there are tons of ways to skin a cat and as long as the cat is skinless when done you have been successful.

The hard reps are where most of the "money" is. In a failure type setting you are trying to get more of those reps within one or two sets. With something like RP's set up you are trying to get the 3RIR all the way down to 0 RIR and achieve more of these reps through extra volume you are capable of because you haven't blown your load on sets to failure. Both approaches have positives and negatives associated with them and it really comes down to personal preference, and a well designed and implemented plan.

I just got the diet portion of my plan, and he has me eating very similar macros to what I have been eating recently. Just a decent jump in protein, and that is coming off of the carb total. Total calories will be around 2650 to get a baseline and see what we need to do to start dropping 1-2lbs a week. He is prescribing some very basic meals so it will be easy to prep but I won't enjoy the food as much as I do now.

He does have me eating a semi-solid preworkout meal, and I don't know how well that is going to work. I will have to eat then go right into the gym and hope I can hold it down. If not, I will discuss some other options with him. Other than whey, it is just some banana and pineapple, so it might not be too bad on the gut during training.

All in all the basic plan looks good, and similar to what I expected. On the gear, he is having me lower test, and increase mast, so that will be a fun test. I am not sure if last week was the culmination of my carbs being dropped to an average of 70g a day, and not increasing my salt intake when eating less salted food causing dehydration, or if it was low E. So we will find out how that pans out this coming week. He does have me supplementing with extra salt as well, so that is good.

I am still waiting on the training stuff, and looking forward to seeing what he has planned. However, I am also pretty confident in my current training so I am not stressing about that.

 

[MrKleen73]

Lunch Training - Arms - Tempo 4-2-1-1, Perceived Effort - 1-2RIR

Functional Trainer Cable curls facing out 45*15,11, 8 - Nice contractions really got to burning on the last 2 sets.

Hammer Curls - 15*15,15,12 - Boy does 15lbs start to feel heavy when you just fried your biceps.

Single Arm Cable Triceps extensions OH - 35*15,11,8 - Took a second to find the tension line but once I found it, these lit my triceps up. MASSIVE PUMP from these.

Assisted Dips -80*12, 9, 8 - These went to 1RIR for sure, very challenging after the OH Triceps Extensions.

 

[MrKleen73]

Sorry for the long post, also if anyone wants specific studies I can list, but post was already too long anyways and I begin to feel worse and worse the more I keep going.

You never have to feel bad about discussing the science of hypertrophy or really much of anything else related to our fitness goals in my logs. I like them to be a place where we can all learn and discuss things in depth. I think many people get a lot out of it. You are not derailing or taking over simply contributing valuable information. That goes for anyone in this thread.

 

[MrKleen73]

I want to make it clear before I go to far into this I am more just clarifying some stuff than dismissing. I pretty much agree that we need optimal rest for best hypertrophy (or that with too short of rest you need to increase number of sets/volume to achieve the same level of stimulus) and that you probably don't need insane levels of volume (the 4-8 sets is a good reference), but that I don't really see how we can equate it being harder to maximally recruit fibers when doing higher sets (so my main point of clarification is that there is not specific reason to value these lower rep sets over higher set ones taken close enough to failure).

I think you may be conflating fiber recruitment with muscular tension (although maybe I'll touch on a bit later why maybe maximal tension isn't as clear or necessary as often presented). Much of the "effective reps" methodology is on BOTH needing to maximally recruit all muscle fibers WHILE exposing them to near maximal tension.

We know training close enough to failure with nearly any rep range will maximally recruit muscle fibers and we have evidence that if we train this way that hypertrophy gains are similar in lower and higher rep ranges.

Reasons to train at various ranges may come down more to lifter temperament and type of movement. It certainly is easier to gauge how close to failure you are when you aren't super high reps (varies but definitely under 12-15 reps) and training with high reps SUCKS (is very painful and hard to get to true failure before stopping due to issues of fatigue that are different at lower rep ranges).



"5 effective reps" from failure comes from the idea muscle recruitment is maximized at roughly 85%, but part of the problem with simplifying it too much is that there is research that more well trained lifters can maximally recruit the primary training muscles much sooner (and therefore may not need to train as close to failure to achieve a stimulus and may be able to be getting "effective reps" earlier in a set or at lower percentages of max). Accessory muscle groups do need tend to need to be closer to failure to be maximally recruited in compound movements though.

So overall the more well trained a lifter (or the better they are at recruiting a certain muscle and generating tension) may need to train further from failure than a less seasoned lifter.



I am just not sure that the bolded is actually shown in the research. I'm not entirely sure I am understanding what you are implying with not needing to do more than 8 reps (that seems like a pretty strong assumption based on the effective reps model, I don't think even the staunchest proponents of it argue anything like that). Effective reps seems to hinge more on equated hard sets than trying to specifically count all those individual reps and sets at higher ranges are still highly effective given proper conditions are met.

Fwiw not sure about the specifics you are alluding to with calcium ion build up interfering with muscular contractions. Peripheral fatigue (one of which is calcium ion buildup) tends to be less deleterious to performance than CNS fatigue, but even if we take it into account generally metabolic accumulation occurs more in concentric actions (builds and relieves quickly) and calcium ion accumulation is more an issue in eccentric motions (slower accumulation and relief), so it kind of depends on the movement and execution.

I definitely think mechanical tension is the primary driver (of at least maybe the initial stimulus), but think we shouldn't throw out other potential mechanisms. There is pretty interesting data that I have seen (both in studies and some interesting case studies I've worked with) showing potential benefits from muscle de-oxygenation and hypoxic conditions (you could think kind of like what you see with blood flow restriction). There are also things like studies showing lactate triggering MPS (and you don't want to get me started on lactate stuff that isn't related to this topic and how outdated people's views on it are ).

I apologize for the long post and I think the framework of effective reps "works", but mostly just because it gets people to make sure their work is hard and to use that to quantify sets being better probably than previous sets x reps (and similar methods) ideas. Just a little confused by the assertion that things over 8 reps don't have use cases or are less effective.

Over the years I have learned hard consistent work pays off. Most of the methods work, and work well. However to make money and a following most need to create a niche market for their type of training. I see it similar to the dietary arguments, fasting, and training types all the time. I don't think there is an end all be all, and know that some people will definitely respond better to high volume training, others HIT/Failure style training, and others Intensity and moderate volume with a focus on not getting into junk volume. IE the RP type of stuff. Where @jimbuick mentions the calcium whatever reaction that makes it harder for muscle fibers to fire, sounds exactly like getting into what RP calls junk volume.

I highly doubt there is a massive difference for any of these as long as consistent hard work is done, and recovery needs are taken care of. It might vary from person to person but overall I imagine the gains would kind of average out overall. I mean you can find massive bodybuilders from all types of training. So we know it works. Even with my RP style training I typically end up in the 6 work sets per body part per session range, and can push up into the 8 sets range, but honestly I can get a damn good workout with 3-4 solid sets on any body part per session. I just try to push the sets up if i feel I can have another productive set without getting into junk volume. My last leg session was 3 "heavier" sets of true squats facing out, and then 2 lighter sets. That is all I did for quads but they are still feeling it and tomorrow is my leg day again.

 

[gphagan1]

I’m for sure oversimplifying. Figured it made more sense to just give broad strokes than to try to get too detailed. Just trying to stay with the actionable info that I use for my training more than anything else.

I want to make it clear before I go to far into this I am more just clarifying some stuff than dismissing. I pretty much agree that we need optimal rest for best hypertrophy (or that with too short of rest you need to increase number of sets/volume to achieve the same level of stimulus) and that you probably don't need insane levels of volume (the 4-8 sets is a good reference), but that I don't really see how we can equate it being harder to maximally recruit fibers when doing higher sets (so my main point of clarification is that there is not specific reason to value these lower rep sets over higher set ones taken close enough to failure).

I think you may be conflating fiber recruitment with muscular tension (although maybe I'll touch on a bit later why maybe maximal tension isn't as clear or necessary as often presented). Much of the "effective reps" methodology is on BOTH needing to maximally recruit all muscle fibers WHILE exposing them to near maximal tension.

We know training close enough to failure with nearly any rep range will maximally recruit muscle fibers and we have evidence that if we train this way that hypertrophy gains are similar in lower and higher rep ranges.

Reasons to train at various ranges may come down more to lifter temperament and type of movement. It certainly is easier to gauge how close to failure you are when you aren't super high reps (varies but definitely under 12-15 reps) and training with high reps SUCKS (is very painful and hard to get to true failure before stopping due to issues of fatigue that are different at lower rep ranges).



"5 effective reps" from failure comes from the idea muscle recruitment is maximized at roughly 85%, but part of the problem with simplifying it too much is that there is research that more well trained lifters can maximally recruit the primary training muscles much sooner (and therefore may not need to train as close to failure to achieve a stimulus and may be able to be getting "effective reps" earlier in a set or at lower percentages of max). Accessory muscle groups do need tend to need to be closer to failure to be maximally recruited in compound movements though.

So overall the more well trained a lifter (or the better they are at recruiting a certain muscle and generating tension) may need to train further from failure than a less seasoned lifter.



I am just not sure that the bolded is actually shown in the research. I'm not entirely sure I am understanding what you are implying with not needing to do more than 8 reps (that seems like a pretty strong assumption based on the effective reps model, I don't think even the staunchest proponents of it argue anything like that). Effective reps seems to hinge more on equated hard sets than trying to specifically count all those individual reps and sets at higher ranges are still highly effective given proper conditions are met.

Fwiw not sure about the specifics you are alluding to with calcium ion build up interfering with muscular contractions. Peripheral fatigue (one of which is calcium ion buildup) tends to be less deleterious to performance than CNS fatigue, but even if we take it into account generally metabolic accumulation occurs more in concentric actions (builds and relieves quickly) and calcium ion accumulation is more an issue in eccentric motions (slower accumulation and relief), so it kind of depends on the movement and execution.

I definitely think mechanical tension is the primary driver (of at least maybe the initial stimulus), but think we shouldn't throw out other potential mechanisms. There is pretty interesting data that I have seen (both in studies and some interesting case studies I've worked with) showing potential benefits from muscle de-oxygenation and hypoxic conditions (you could think kind of like what you see with blood flow restriction). There are also things like studies showing lactate triggering MPS (and you don't want to get me started on lactate stuff that isn't related to this topic and how outdated people's views on it are ).

I apologize for the long post and I think the framework of effective reps "works", but mostly just because it gets people to make sure their work is hard and to use that to quantify sets being better probably than previous sets x reps (and similar methods) ideas. Just a little confused by the assertion that things over 8 reps don't have use cases or are less effective.

Over the years I have learned hard consistent work pays off. Most of the methods work, and work well. However to make money and a following most need to create a niche market for their type of training. I see it similar to the dietary arguments, fasting, and training types all the time. I don't think there is an end all be all, and know that some people will definitely respond better to high volume training, others HIT/Failure style training, and others Intensity and moderate volume with a focus on not getting into junk volume. IE the RP type of stuff. Where @jimbuick mentions the calcium whatever reaction that makes it harder for muscle fibers to fire, sounds exactly like getting into what RP calls junk volume.

I highly doubt there is a massive difference for any of these as long as consistent hard work is done, and recovery needs are taken care of. It might vary from person to person but overall I imagine the gains would kind of average out overall. I mean you can find massive bodybuilders from all types of training. So we know it works. Even with my RP style training I typically end up in the 6 work sets per body part per session range, and can push up into the 8 sets range, but honestly I can get a damn good workout with 3-4 solid sets on any body part per session. I just try to push the sets up if i feel I can have another productive set without getting into junk volume. My last leg session was 3 "heavier" sets of true squats facing out, and then 2 lighter sets. That is all I did for quads but they are still feeling it and tomorrow is my leg day again.

This is part of what I love about good logs like this is the wealth of information shared. And truthfully there’s a lot of good science and proof that both ends of the spectrum works, if done properly whether it’s a high volume like DoggCrapp are lower like all the different variations of 5/3/1, and I actually like Chad Waterbury’s 10x3 on compound lifts and 4x6 on accessory lifts at 80%, like you said Kleen it all can be done effectively if done properly and continuously progressing. Anyway already good stuff.

Yeah, the reality is there are tons of ways to skin a cat and as long as the cat is skinless when done you have been successful.

The hard reps are where most of the "money" is. In a failure type setting you are trying to get more of those reps within one or two sets. With something like RP's set up you are trying to get the 3RIR all the way down to 0 RIR and achieve more of these reps through extra volume you are capable of because you haven't blown your load on sets to failure. Both approaches have positives and negatives associated with them and it really comes down to personal preference, and a well designed and implemented plan.

I just got the diet portion of my plan, and he has me eating very similar macros to what I have been eating recently. Just a decent jump in protein, and that is coming off of the carb total. Total calories will be around 2650 to get a baseline and see what we need to do to start dropping 1-2lbs a week. He is prescribing some very basic meals so it will be easy to prep but I won't enjoy the food as much as I do now.

He does have me eating a semi-solid preworkout meal, and I don't know how well that is going to work. I will have to eat then go right into the gym and hope I can hold it down. If not, I will discuss some other options with him. Other than whey, it is just some banana and pineapple, so it might not be too bad on the gut during training.

All in all the basic plan looks good, and similar to what I expected. On the gear, he is having me lower test, and increase mast, so that will be a fun test. I am not sure if last week was the culmination of my carbs being dropped to an average of 70g a day, and not increasing my salt intake when eating less salted food causing dehydration, or if it was low E. So we will find out how that pans out this coming week. He does have me supplementing with extra salt as well, so that is good.

I am still waiting on the training stuff, and looking forward to seeing what he has planned. However, I am also pretty confident in my current training so I am not stressing about that.

Interesting he has you lowering the Test and increasing Mast…I know Mast really shines when you’re 12% or less BF, I’m sure that’s probably his thinking, but man at my age my joints would be talking to me with Mast higher. I’m sure it’s all a feeling out process to see what works for you.
Edit: Just wanted to add too that I bet when he puts you on the bulk or build phase, after this cut, he will have you increase Test or add another compound like NPP or something.

 

[MrKleen73]

Oh definitely. I think honestly a lot of it can be explained with good scientific reasons, which for some people (like me) love to know, but ultimately it doesn’t matter if you know as long as certain things are done (if that makes sense).

I prob also train a bit more like Jim. I’ve often felt one of my opinions not always as commonly agreed upon is that some lower rep sets work really well (for me). I often only need to work up to my rpe/rir 8-9/1-2 (at sub 8 reps) plus a single repeat or down set for the day on big movements and grow well from it (granted I’m not only doing one movement per muscle group).

I’ve also had success with much higher reps too.

I think there is more variance between individuals than some want to admit (because it can be hard to sell a program when you can’t just give the same simple advice or plan to everyone ), but I also just enjoy the journey of figuring out why that is for so many people.

Yeah, I love the science of it too, I swear I have forgotten more than a lot of people know just from digging in to so many different methods of training and the science behind why they work. I used to really get sucked into things as the best method, but then experience with doing so many different ways and them all working, I have just learned it all works well if executed well.

I often do 2 exercises per body part for 4-6 sets total. However when it comes to legs that is quad, hams, glutes, calves. Since training in the AM I have been trying to find how few exercises I can do to save on time wasted with moving to another station, and warming up for another movement. So I have cut the exercises down and increasing that by one set was enough to do the trick. It just makes sense for my situation. I do love the variety of multiple exercises though when I have time for it. I loved lifting with Jim, we both kind of did our own thing but did all of the same exercises and helped motivate each other.

This is part of what I love about good logs like this is the wealth of information shared. And truthfully there’s a lot of good science and proof that both ends of the spectrum works, if done properly whether it’s a high volume like DoggCrapp are lower like all the different variations of 5/3/1, and I actually like Chad Waterbury’s 10x3 on compound lifts and 4x6 on accessory lifts at 80%, like you said Kleen it all can be done effectively if done properly and continuously progressing. Anyway already good stuff.

Interesting he has you lowering the Test and increasing Mast…I know Mast really shines when you’re 12% or less BF, I’m sure that’s probably his thinking, but man at my age my joints would be talking to me with Mast higher. I’m sure it’s all a feeling out process to see what works for you.

Yeah, I am going to hit him up to discuss but I am willing to try and verify it was the mast that dried me out and not that I was just getting dehydrated. Once we discuss it he may reconsider. I just need to see when he is available for a call.

 

[jimbuick]

I want to make it clear before I go to far into this I am more just clarifying some stuff than dismissing. I pretty much agree that we need optimal rest for best hypertrophy (or that with too short of rest you need to increase number of sets/volume to achieve the same level of stimulus) and that you probably don't need insane levels of volume (the 4-8 sets is a good reference), but that I don't really see how we can equate it being harder to maximally recruit fibers when doing higher sets (so my main point of clarification is that there is not specific reason to value these lower rep sets over higher set ones taken close enough to failure).

I think you may be conflating fiber recruitment with muscular tension (although maybe I'll touch on a bit later why maybe maximal tension isn't as clear or necessary as often presented). Much of the "effective reps" methodology is on BOTH needing to maximally recruit all muscle fibers WHILE exposing them to near maximal tension.

We know training close enough to failure with nearly any rep range will maximally recruit muscle fibers and we have evidence that if we train this way that hypertrophy gains are similar in lower and higher rep ranges.

Reasons to train at various ranges may come down more to lifter temperament and type of movement. It certainly is easier to gauge how close to failure you are when you aren't super high reps (varies but definitely under 12-15 reps) and training with high reps SUCKS (is very painful and hard to get to true failure before stopping due to issues of fatigue that are different at lower rep ranges).



"5 effective reps" from failure comes from the idea muscle recruitment is maximized at roughly 85%, but part of the problem with simplifying it too much is that there is research that more well trained lifters can maximally recruit the primary training muscles much sooner (and therefore may not need to train as close to failure to achieve a stimulus and may be able to be getting "effective reps" earlier in a set or at lower percentages of max). Accessory muscle groups do need tend to need to be closer to failure to be maximally recruited in compound movements though.

So overall the more well trained a lifter (or the better they are at recruiting a certain muscle and generating tension) may need to train further from failure than a less seasoned lifter.



I am just not sure that the bolded is actually shown in the research. I'm not entirely sure I am understanding what you are implying with not needing to do more than 8 reps (that seems like a pretty strong assumption based on the effective reps model, I don't think even the staunchest proponents of it argue anything like that). Effective reps seems to hinge more on equated hard sets than trying to specifically count all those individual reps and sets at higher ranges are still highly effective given proper conditions are met.

Fwiw not sure about the specifics you are alluding to with calcium ion build up interfering with muscular contractions. Peripheral fatigue (one of which is calcium ion buildup) tends to be less deleterious to performance than CNS fatigue, but even if we take it into account generally metabolic accumulation occurs more in concentric actions (builds and relieves quickly) and calcium ion accumulation is more an issue in eccentric motions (slower accumulation and relief), so it kind of depends on the movement and execution.

I definitely think mechanical tension is the primary driver (of at least maybe the initial stimulus), but think we shouldn't throw out other potential mechanisms. There is pretty interesting data that I have seen (both in studies and some interesting case studies I've worked with) showing potential benefits from muscle de-oxygenation and hypoxic conditions (you could think kind of like what you see with blood flow restriction). There are also things like studies showing lactate triggering MPS (and you don't want to get me started on lactate stuff that isn't related to this topic and how outdated people's views on it are ).

I apologize for the long post and I think the framework of effective reps "works", but mostly just because it gets people to make sure their work is hard and to use that to quantify sets being better probably than previous sets x reps (and similar methods) ideas. Just a little confused by the assertion that things over 8 reps don't have use cases or are less effective.

I wasn’t trying to suggest that you can’t do 8+ reps, just that you don’t really need to.

I think there’s probably some reason to believe that doing all sets for all exercises above 8-10 reps likely could be less effective than doing more of those sets in the 4-6 range, but that’s because of accumulated fatigue from doing 6-10 hard sets all above 8-10.

I’m not disagreeing with you, to be clear. Just trying to clarify that as it seems my message came across stronger than I intended it.

As I said in another post, there are plenty of exercises that I prefer in that 8-12 range for a variety of reasons, but for most exercises (and especially those big compounds that generate a lot of fatigue and greater perception of effort), I think there is good reason to believe a set of 5 could be superior than a set of 8-10 for most people. But I do think at that point it’s splitting hairs and likely isn’t going to be a big enough difference to matter for most people.

 

[SkRaw85]

What?!?! Just found this, LFG indeed!!!!!

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Ok, so I have read from Jim’s 11:30 post on, once Friday and twice today. Jim’s approach is the way I have lifted since summer of 2002. I had always used the Max-OT style of training on the AST-SS website. Any and all of the workouts. It was based on spending less time in the gym and capitalizing on intensity 4-6 rep range. 3 exercises per body part. If u can get 8 reps go up in weight. Jeff Willet trained this way and got his IFBB Pro Card. That being said, I popped my right tricep last July using this method. I had completed the 60 or so days of 3 times a week, didn’t take the full week off to recoup as recommended, and went right into the 5 day a week routine. I was also ego lifting like a moron doing skull crushers w 125lbs. After getting the green light from Ortho and PT I started doing 4 exercises per body part 5 sets, 45 sec rest between sets, fifteen reps close to failure …. Or was it more like fatigue. I would gain a pump, and feel the pump leave for the last exercise for that body part, then hitting drop sets “chasing the dragon” if you will. I feel like this was a loss of what I had built up in the lower rep ranges. My workouts became too long. It became unenjoyable. @Smont put up a “free workout” last week and I have been using that since. Check his post cause I’m on my mobile and too lazy to open another browser to copy and paste etc. I prefer this style. I guess I prefer the same church as @jimbuick maybe not the same pew but def same church.

I know this isn’t my thread and sorry that was such a long post.

 

[Hyde]

I’ve had a ton of success adding size with both real volume, and what I would call “junk volume” (due to low intensity done far from failure) performed with higher frequency.

Like if I perform glute ham raise for 50 total reps at least twice a week, my hamstrings gain size considerably faster. I have done 4x15 with 30% 1RM on closegrip bench at the start of 2-3 sessions per week and taken upper body size to new levels. 45-60 reps of reverse hypers 2-3 times per week definitely beefed up my erectors. Delts respond very well to feeders/frequent light easy work. It will burn badly & get you huffing & sweating, but these are all done far from failure ultimately.

It’s like the manual labor effect - you do something routinely, basally, the body adapts to handle it. Guys dragging logs or throwing bails have to do that for hours; it’s not anywhere near maximal. Yet there are results.

I’m not saying it’s optimal; a teen bailing hay doesn’t look like an IFBB Pro even before they were all geared up, but my point is it is a viable method to eek out some hypertrophy without a big recovery cost or risk of injury. This frees up resources for me to perform my strength work better, which is my focus.

 

[MrKleen73]

I love that we have so many examples of success from so many different methodologies around. I definitely built the bulk of my muscle in the 5-12 range. It wasn't until a bit later I found out how well the 10-15, then 15-25 rep ranges worked for me. Honestly, I can get any training style to make me grow, and often when I go off the rails it isn't the method failing me but me taking the method too far.

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10/27/23 Macros -

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Okay so sent my first check in even though I haven't really started his program or diet yet. I am finishing off some prepped food but meeting his macros then will start with exactly what he asks. Anyway, I figured I would post up a few of the check in pictures so we had a reference of where I was when I started with him. These are all fasted straight out of bed pics. No fluids or anything.

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10/28/23 - Morning Weight 197.4 - Had a bit of a whoosh, I was 200.1 yesterday. Looking a bit flat but lean. Boy has my posing gone to crap. I forgot how to do some of them correctly, and the RDB with the calf spiked really through me off to where I couldn't get it right. LMAO.

I am about to eat again, then go to the gym shortly after.

Oh there has been a very interesting hormonal development that makes me think the change in gear is going to be just fine. This morning my nipples just hit me with the spidey sense. Danger, danger, estrogen abound!!! They start itching a bit and the gland has flared up a little. So I think I might have just been dehydrated from not maintaining my salt intake when my calories dropped and put me low carb. Between that, and working out in a sauna I think I might just been dehydrated regardless of the amount of water I was drinking. We will see soon, but my nipples definitely feel the presence of elevated estrogen.

 

[Smont]

Early on I put my initial 20lbs doing a full body 3xweek 3x6 per exercise and it was just as solid as my first steroid cycle gains. Maybe better then my first cycle. After getting my strength back I started finding that the 8-15 was now my new grow zone if you will. But I definitely think everything can work if your working hard at it. I also think there's something to be said when someone who has trained heavy low reps for years switches to high volume and vice versa. They seem to get newb gains all the sudden for a few months

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

I love that we have so many examples of success from so many different methodologies around. I definitely built the bulk of my muscle in the 5-12 range. It wasn't until a bit later I found out how well the 10-15, then 15-25 rep ranges worked for me. Honestly, I can get any training style to make me grow, and often when I go off the rails it isn't the method failing me but me taking the method too far.

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10/27/23 Macros -

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Okay so sent my first check in even though I haven't really started his program or diet yet. I am finishing off some prepped food but meeting his macros then will start with exactly what he asks. Anyway, I figured I would post up a few of the check in pictures so we had a reference of where I was when I started with him. These are all fasted straight out of bed pics. No fluids or anything.

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10/28/23 - Morning Weight 197.4 - Had a bit of a whoosh, I was 200.1 yesterday. Looking a bit flat but lean. Boy has my posing gone to crap. I forgot how to do some of them correctly, and the RDB with the calf spiked really through me off to where I couldn't get it right. LMAO.

I am about to eat again, then go to the gym shortly after.

Oh there has been a very interesting hormonal development that makes me think the change in gear is going to be just fine. This morning my nipples just hit me with the spidey sense. Danger, danger, estrogen abound!!! They start itching a bit and the gland has flared up a little. So I think I might have just been dehydrated from not maintaining my salt intake when my calories dropped and put me low carb. Between that, and working out in a sauna I think I might just been dehydrated regardless of the amount of water I was drinking. We will see soon, but my nipples definitely feel the presence of elevated estrogen.

The “spidey sense” line cracked me up man!!! Been there. Hate that feeling. I go into panic mode and once u notice it you can’t unnotice it. The seat belt reminds you, tight shirts etc. maybe your trainer is omniscient and that’s why he suggested gear change

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Early on I put my initial 20lbs doing a full body 3xweek 3x6 per exercise and it was just as solid as my first steroid cycle gains. Maybe better then my first cycle. After getting my strength back I started finding that the 8-15 was now my new grow zone if you will. But I definitely think everything can work if your working hard at it. I also think there's something to be said when someone who has trained heavy low reps for years switches to high volume and vice versa. They seem to get newb gains all the sudden for a few months

I agree w the newbie gains from changing to a higher rep range bi’s and tris popped nice shoulders and back. My left shoulder doesn’t like the high rep range. A lot of soreness like an inflamed bursa. I was dreading my workouts and not happy while I was doing them. Almost like I was in a rush and going through the motions. Have never done a 45 sec rest between sets, always 2 min.

 

[MrKleen73]

The “spidey sense” line cracked me up man!!! Been there. Hate that feeling. I go into panic mode and once u notice it you can’t unnotice it. The seat belt reminds you, tight shirts etc. maybe your trainer is omniscient and that’s why he suggested gear change

Honestly, I don't have it in me to panic about them. I have had this crap since my first armpit hair, even before then to be honest. Hereditary thing from my Mom. That was funny about the coach being omniscient!

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Honestly, I don't have it in me to panic about them. I have had this crap since my first armpit hair, even before then to be honest. Hereditary thing from my Mom. That was funny about the coach being omniscient!

Must be a bald guy thing. We r just more virile. I had gyno as soon as puberty was on the radar. I was 11 and panicked when I had a lump that hurt under left nip. Kid on my baseball teams mother had breast cancer at the time. Subliminal suggestion I guess.

 

[MrKleen73]

I agree w the newbie gains from changing to a higher rep range bi’s and tris popped nice shoulders and back. My left shoulder doesn’t like the high rep range. A lot of soreness like an inflamed bursa. I was dreading my workouts and not happy while I was doing them. Almost like I was in a rush and going through the motions. Have never done a 45 sec rest between sets, always 2 min.

Yeah for sure, I was going to mention everything works well, and most of the time it works best when it is a big change so you get the gains from the novelty in training. Most people coming fdrom intensity do very well wsapping to volume training, and visa versa. Typically because volume training brings more volume to the muscle via mitochondrial changes. However people on high volume normally do well because they shed fatigue going to lower volume and recover better if they were overdoing the volume. I know some people call it muscle confusion but it isn't confused, it is reacting specifically to the new and previously neglected or overreached area of training.

What?!?! Just found this, LFG indeed!!!!!

Bro! Welcome Sir! Good to have you in here.

 

[MrKleen73]

Must be a bald guy thing. We r just more virile. I had gyno as soon as puberty was on the radar. I was 11 and panicked when I had a lump that hurt under left nip. Kid on my baseball teams mother had breast cancer at the time. Subliminal suggestion I guess.

Yeah that would do it. I even have pictures of me at like 8-9 with little puffy fat niddlers and testosterone wasn't even in the picture yet.

 

[Hyde]

Looking really good in these progress photos, best set I’ve seen from you yet. Gyno is looking really good despite the estrogen you’re feeling - you’re going to be perfect for the stage when a bit leaner and on some nolva. Calves looking like bulls in the RDB shot!

I totally agree on the phase potentiation of training.

 

[MrKleen73]

Looking really good in these progress photos, best set I’ve seen from you yet. Gyno is looking really good despite the estrogen you’re feeling - you’re going to be perfect for the stage when a bit leaner and on some nolva. Calves looking like bulls in the RDB shot!

I totally agree on the phase potentiation of training.

Thanks @Hyde! That was my opinion too on the gyno, the fat loss has made such a difference the mild bit of glandular response I am getting is not taking away from the improvement. It just been pretty small lately I noticed that tingle and checked after it didn't go away without messing with it for a while. There was just a little more stiffness to the tissue. I am about to take the first flip flopped dose. He told me to shoot everything EOD but he thought I had mast p not mast e. I just bought smaller needles so it is probably a good idea to do it that way anyway. It takes a month to push a lot through a 29g. LOL

 

[gphagan1]

I actually thought you hit your poses pretty good. Looking really good, and starting with your coach already primed and looking solid.
There’s definitely something to switching up programs whether low rep big weight or high rep low weight, when done at the appropriate time. Every time you switch, your body goes through that shock of the system generating those newb type gains as Smont says as the body adjusts and tries to adapt to the new different type of stimulus. All equals growth in the end. As long as we’re going forward and not backwards all is good no matter how you got there.

 

[Hyde]

Thanks @Hyde! That was my opinion too on the gyno, the fat loss has made such a difference the mild bit of glandular response I am getting is not taking away from the improvement. It just been pretty small lately I noticed that tingle and checked after it didn't go away without messing with it for a while. There was just a little more stiffness to the tissue. I am about to take the first flip flopped dose. He told me to shoot everything EOD but he thought I had mast p not mast e. I just bought smaller needles so it is probably a good idea to do it that way anyway. It takes a month to push a lot through a 29g. LOL

Lol yeah I order 27g & 28g easytouch slinpins for gear & carnitine. 30g is for peptides!

 

[MrKleen73]

I actually thought you hit your poses pretty good. Looking really good, and starting with your coach already primed and looking solid.
There’s definitely something to switching up programs whether low rep big weight or high rep low weight, when done at the appropriate time. Every time you switch, your body goes through that shock of the system generating those newb type gains as Smont says as the body adjusts and tries to adapt to the new different type of stimulus. All equals growth in the end. As long as we’re going forward and not backwards all is good no matter how you got there.

Thanks, I just had some issues keeping legs tight, and had to take the rear double biceps like 4 times because trying to flex the hamstring and calf while staying erect and flaring the flats ain't easy. The core is trying to stabilize so hard again that leg driving in and back the natural reaction is for the mid back to retract in, not protract so it takes practice. The other thing is that the timer for the camera is 10 seconds with no audible count so I was relaxing too soon on some of them or getting tired of posing from holding it a while. Other things were minimal, dropping shoulder too far, not lifting ribcage enough or other small things. Just stuff I noticed I will have to work on. With me having to do weekly check ins and have the mandatories and Qtr turns in each one I should have them pretty much nailed site unseen by the contest. I am going to have to pull my posing DVD out of storage.

Lol yeah I order 27g & 28g easytouch slinpins for gear & carnitine. 30g is for peptides!

Yeah, I thought I remembered you saying 29g so that is what I grabbed. LOL I have some 27g 1/2 inch on the way. No way I am dealing with that. I will just order some 1cc barrels and use the 29g for peptides.

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10/29/23 - Fasted Weight 199.1

I am taking today as a rest day, get myself ready to be back on the grind Monday. I am supposed to be getting my workout today. He has been had to drive back and forth between Houston and Austin a couple of times this week so his schedule has been pretty hectic. I told him just have it to me today so I can wrap my head around it for tomorrow.

Other than that I am getting ready to leave to go get the food for prep. Then will be taking Sage's car out to my sons so we can change the brakes. It's a jeep and I don't have a jack tall enough to get it off the ground. After that I will come home and prep my meals for the week. The diet is pretty much rice, chicken breast, flank steak, fruit and added olive oil for fats. I ain't mad at it. I totally understand the focus. I do think I may buy some greens powder though if not really doing many greens right now.

 

[Hyde]

Thanks, I just had some issues keeping legs tight, and had to take the rear double biceps like 4 times because trying to flex the hamstring and calf while staying erect and flaring the flats ain't easy. The core is trying to stabilize so hard again that leg driving in and back the natural reaction is for the mid back to retract in, not protract so it takes practice. The other thing is that the timer for the camera is 10 seconds with no audible count so I was relaxing too soon on some of them or getting tired of posing from holding it a while. Other things were minimal, dropping shoulder too far, not lifting ribcage enough or other small things. Just stuff I noticed I will have to work on. With me having to do weekly check ins and have the mandatories and Qtr turns in each one I should have them pretty much nailed site unseen by the contest. I am going to have to pull my posing DVD out of storage.


Yeah, I thought I remembered you saying 29g so that is what I grabbed. LOL I have some 27g 1/2 inch on the way. No way I am dealing with that. I will just order some 1cc barrels and use the 29g for peptides.

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10/29/23 - Fasted Weight 199.1

I am taking today as a rest day, get myself ready to be back on the grind Monday. I am supposed to be getting my workout today. He has been had to drive back and forth between Houston and Austin a couple of times this week so his schedule has been pretty hectic. I told him just have it to me today so I can wrap my head around it for tomorrow.

Other than that I am getting ready to leave to go get the food for prep. Then will be taking Sage's car out to my sons so we can change the brakes. It's a jeep and I don't have a jack tall enough to get it off the ground. After that I will come home and prep my meals for the week. The diet is pretty much rice, chicken breast, flank steak, fruit and added olive oil for fats. I ain't mad at it. I totally understand the focus. I do think I may buy some greens powder though if not really doing many greens right now.

You should ask him about veggies because some coaches don’t care if portions/ingredients are agreed upon. Like 2 cups a day of spinach/broccoli, even higher calorie stuff like green beans sometimes. If it’s going to be consistent. It’s not so much that it will be hard on the body and may provide some satiety & fiber or micros if someone likes it.

Nobody got fat eating some sauerkraut, but they do have a much healthier digestion/gut.

 

[MrKleen73]

You should ask him about veggies because some coaches don’t care if portions/ingredients are agreed upon. Like 2 cups a day of spinach/broccoli, even higher calorie stuff like green beans sometimes. If it’s going to be consistent. It’s not so much that it will be hard on the body and may provide some satiety & fiber or micros if someone likes it.

Nobody got fat eating some sauerkraut, but they do have a much healthier digestion/gut.

Right and sauteing or blanching some veggies is a good way to get the olive oil that gets added in without just taking it from a spoon.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yesterday was a good rest day. Although working on a car isn't exactly rest. My son and I went out for dinner at a Mexican place by his house he has wanted to take me too since we were out there it made sense. I decided to go ahead and have my last free meal and drink there and it was worth it. That little place had really good food some nice and hot salsa and made one of the best frozen margaritas I have had in years. I woke up very full, but with some indigestion, that salsa was fire and had it's way with me last night. Since I was all distended and holding tons of water I didn't even weigh this morning. I am sure I am up 2-4lbs but I looked like a beast in the gym this morning!!!

10/30/23 - Chest and Shoulders - Slow negative, pause in stretch, concentric contraction is quick, but not fast enough to lose tension on target muscles.

HS Horizontal Chest Press 70*12, 10, 8, 8 - Different feel than the Arsenal one but still a great contraction stretch and pump here.

NitroEvo Incline Press - 100*12, 9, 7 - This machine did the trick since someone was on the HS Incline

HS shoulder presses 45*12, 10, 9 - Had a meaty front delt pump here!

DB Lateral Swings 15*fail x 4 - I am still concentrating on getting these down perfectly, they are pretty dynamic and require finding the groove and then just riding the resistance but I still have to concentrate on it so counting is just a distraction right now. The learning is worth the effort on these. When in the groove they are just awesome.

DB Rear Delt Swing 15*25, 20, 15 - I am getting better and better with these, probably need to move up to 20's soon if they are a part of my new program.

Arms and 25 minutes of Cardio during lunch break. Will probably tack on some shoulders.

Pump was off the chain, as a matter of fact, I am still somewhat pumped.

Update on my training program. He called me last night to explain a very good personal reason why he was unable to respond to me or get the program done as promised. I won't get into the reason why, but I can respect a man who has enough integrity about his business to call and tell me something personal and out of his control that got in the way. He told me to go ahead and train my stuff today, let him know what I did and he will have me squared away ASAP with a workout that is based off of this session for the week, and kind of transitions into his style of training. He said it will be a kind of bro split but with some bleed over. I am excited to see what I will be doing for the next little while. I actually feel much better about the situation after his call last night.

Trying to stick closely to what he has on the diet right now but I have probably 2 more days of some of my previously prepped food I am not just going to toss out. So fitting that stuff in here and there this week but with his macros. Then will be following it pretty much to the T except where he says substitutions are okay.

 

[Dustin07]

sorta crazy how lean you are at that weight with a full year of prep to go, this is gonna be a hell of a ride to watch!

 

[MrKleen73]

sorta crazy how lean you are at that weight with a full year of prep to go, this is gonna be a hell of a ride to watch!

Thanks, I am pretty excited with where I am now as well. I can't wait to see how I look another 4-5% lower which is how much I am guessing he will want to drop me before we turn around and rebound out of the cut. I am 5lbs heavier than I was when I started the prep for my natty show and about 5% lower bodyfat too. So I can't wait to see what I am able to bring to the stage.

 

[Dustin07]

Thanks, I am pretty excited with where I am now as well. I can't wait to see how I look another 4-5% lower which is how much I am guessing he will want to drop me before we turn around and rebound out of the cut. I am 5lbs heavier than I was when I started the prep for my natty show and about 5% lower bodyfat too. So I can't wait to see what I am able to bring to the stage.

I'm really happy to see you committing to the show and picking up the coach. I liked the accountability log you created last spring but it definitely is clear that making a full scale run at it on your own is what you need, next level type ****. I'm pumped for this.

 

[MrKleen73]

I'm really happy to see you committing to the show and picking up the coach. I liked the accountability log you created last spring but it definitely is clear that making a full scale run at it on your own is what you need, next level type ****. I'm pumped for this.

Yeah, one thing I have learned with ADHD is I need to make a commitment to something that matters to me, and has some pressure behind it to maintain my attention. Then I make it publicly known so if I don't do it everyone I know, knows I flaked on it. That will keep me in line and motivated. Plus this is something I always said i would do. So it is for sure important to me.

Once I know for sure what show we are targeting I will more than likely go ahead and register for it and pay for it ahead of time to cement it in even more. That way I flake, I lose money. All just ways to cement this in so that failure is not an option. While I was talking to my coach yesterday I mentioned this was probably my last hoorah unless I place and get to go to Nationals. Then I will want to extend the season and go to Nationals or even take the year to build a slightly better package. He said he could definitely see me qualifying for the nationals and that his track record for local competitors going to nationals was like 90% which is pretty damn good!

 

[Dustin07]

Once I know for sure what show we are targeting I will more than likely go ahead and register for it and pay for it ahead of time to cement it in even more.

dynamite. I've seen it said a few times, and I remember like a decade ago when Layne first said it. Actually he might have been talking about his first show ever, but he said the most important step was dropping the registration in the mail with the money because then mentally he was more committed than ever and it lit a fire in his belly to see it through and succeed.

 

[MrKleen73]

dynamite. I've seen it said a few times, and I remember like a decade ago when Layne first said it. Actually he might have been talking about his first show ever, but he said the most important step was dropping the registration in the mail with the money because then mentally he was more committed than ever and it lit a fire in his belly to see it through and succeed.

Yes Sir, that is exactly what I did for my first show too. I decided just before the new year I was going to make a run for it. So as soon as the show date came out I registered as a competitor with the federation then paid my entrance fee. I was solidified in it then. Plus I don't know if noticed, but I tend to be a bit thrifty when it comes to spending on myself. So when I spend money on myself I don't allow it to be wasted. So same scenario there, once I have invested in something it tends to be solidified and a 600 down for the first 3 months if a big investment in myself. Continuing it the rest of the year even bigger. So I will not waste it.

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I am really paying for that big margarita, chips and habanero salsa. Spent most of the day back and forth to the restroom. I was able to get my 25 minutes of cardio done, 8.5 incline and 3MPH to get me to 130BPM... I was working hard, but when you start with a 60 BPM heart rate getting to 130 is no easy feet without pushing pretty hard. I know 3MPH doesn't sound like a lot but that is a speed walk for me. I have a short walking gate. I have a hard time keeping up with my wife. She is shorter than me and can walk 4.5mph on the treadmill. I have no clue how. I look like a dachshund trying to keep up with a greyhound at 3mph. LMAO!

 

[Hyde]

I know exactly how signing up for a comp lights the fire.

I also have a short stride for my height and routinely have to work hard to keep up with others. I think it’s a meathead problem.

 

[MrKleen73]

I know exactly how signing up for a comp lights the fire.

I also have a short stride for my height and routinely have to work hard to keep up with others. I think it’s a meathead problem.

Maybe the fact that we have to swing our gait around our adductors makes us inefficient walkers.

 

[gphagan1]

Yeah, one thing I have learned with ADHD is I need to make a commitment to something that matters to me, and has some pressure behind it to maintain my attention. Then I make it publicly known so if I don't do it everyone I know, knows I flaked on it. That will keep me in line and motivated. Plus this is something I always said i would do. So it is for sure important to me.

Once I know for sure what show we are targeting I will more than likely go ahead and register for it and pay for it ahead of time to cement it in even more. That way I flake, I lose money. All just ways to cement this in so that failure is not an option. While I was talking to my coach yesterday I mentioned this was probably my last hoorah unless I place and get to go to Nationals. Then I will want to extend the season and go to Nationals or even take the year to build a slightly better package. He said he could definitely see me qualifying for the nationals and that his track record for local competitors going to nationals was like 90% which is pretty damn good!

That’s a good way to look at it, because the public commitment and putting the money down removes the safety net and puts the thought of “I have to do this” in your subconscious. Kind of like when you put that big weight on the bench and start your descent, no turning back now. And besides nobody wants to lose money, especially this day and age.

 

[Dustin07]

That’s true, but chest is an outlier for me because I have a hard time activating that muscle group, so I can tolerate more volume because I’m not getting as many effective reps per set for the muscle since it isn’t always maximally firing.

For muscles that I have a better ability to actually focus my exercises on, I tend to do 3-4 sets a session (shoulders, biceps, lats, rhomboids/traps, legs, triceps).

I applied your rep schemes yesterday and was pleased with the pumps I achieved with only 8-10 rep sets at much heavier weight. I kept adding weight until I could find basically an 8rm and once I didn't think I could repeat the 8 reps, I dropped weight a little. I might go back and forth between lighter/higher rep and the heavier/lower rep scheme but a pumps a pump and it was a great session, glad I saw your thoughts on it!

I am really paying for that big margarita, chips and habanero salsa

I have two Mexican co-workers that will bring hot sauce in for me occasionally (homemade) so this weekend I made some. Roasted tomatoes, jalapenos, habaneros, garlic, added more raw garlic and onion. it was freaking amazing but definitely did a number on my stomach 3 days in a row (cause I just kept eating it haha)

I have a hard time keeping up with my wife. She is shorter than me and can walk 4.5mph

I routinely am like 15ft behind my wife at the store and she's all of like 5'2". My normal LISS speed is 2.5-2.7 on incline and 3mph if I'm feeling spicey, our walking speed is probably the same. likely normal evolutionary trait to save energy for war and hunting

Maybe the fact that we have to swing our gait around our adductors makes us inefficient walkers.

haha, I've noticed I walk a bit "chunkier" like I'm square shaped in the last year since putting so much effort into my deadlifts.

 

[MrKleen73]

That’s a good way to look at it, because the public commitment and putting the money down removes the safety net and puts the thought of “I have to do this” in your subconscious. Kind of like when you put that big weight on the bench and start your descent, no turning back now. And besides nobody wants to lose money, especially this day and age.

AMEN, the government saw to it I didn't have money to waste!

I have two Mexican co-workers that will bring hot sauce in for me occasionally (homemade) so this weekend I made some. Roasted tomatoes, jalapenos, habaneros, garlic, added more raw garlic and onion. it was freaking amazing but definitely did a number on my stomach 3 days in a row (cause I just kept eating it haha)

I routinely am like 15ft behind my wife at the store and she's all of like 5'2". My normal LISS speed is 2.5-2.7 on incline and 3mph if I'm feeling spicey, our walking speed is probably the same. likely normal evolutionary trait to save energy for war and hunting

haha, I've noticed I walk a bit "chunkier" like I'm square shaped in the last year since putting so much effort into my deadlifts.

That salsa sounds good as a mofo! The stuff I made this past week is almost gone. It is pretty spicy with habaneros, jalapenos and serranos, lime juice, salt, garlic, roasted tomatoes and cilantro because... YUM!

Yeah sounds like we are about the same speed. Makes sense since we are pretty close in height. It's funny because a lot of the time I will work to keep up with her then she speeds up because she is slowing down not to lose me. Then I have to be like Hey Babe, we aren't jogging can we slow it down, or you can walk ahead. I just caught up and you and now your speeding up. LMAO! It it isn't too hot we hold hands and I just kind of pull her back to my comfort speed. LOL

Yeah 3mph is a lot of work for me, 3.5 is probably my max for actual speed walking type of walking but I don't do that crap. I would much rather stay at 2.7-3 range and bump the incline to get to my desired heart rate. Normally I do interval or rolling hills with a pretty high setting to burn my cals but he wants steady state which is far more boring and tedious but I guess will keep me from pushing cardio to hard.

 

[MrKleen73]

10/31/23 - Happy Halloween - Fasting Weight 200.1 - All that water he has me drinking, and an upset stomach cleaned out most of whatever I was holding on to from Sunday's last hoorah.

I didn't mention, he has me drinking 7 liters of water a day with 1/4 tsp of Himalayan salt for each one. I think I might have managed 5 liters yesterday, that is going to be a challenge to get used to doing. I am close to 2 liters down now and am already tired of drinking. LOL

Legs Truncated Session - I had to make these sets really count. I somehow lost my gym bag with my dongle to get into the 24 hr gym, so I had to drive over to my other gym and wait for them to open at 5:00AM.

Bike x 5 minutes

Hack Squat 135*10, 10, 9, 8 - I really milked the slow negatives and the pause in the bottom under tension on these. Quads were burning and ridiculously pumped.

BB SLDL w/25s - 145*12, 10, 8 - These felt great once i got into them but my left hamstring was a little tight at first. Just kept things nice and slow for some high quality contractions. My forearms got so pumped not having my versa-grips I didn't have another set in them, or my hamstrings to be honest.

If I have time and energy after cardio I may add in some seated leg curls and leg extensions. Either do a superset, or some muscle rounds sets fir a little additional volume. If I only have time for one it will be the leg curls.

 

[Dustin07]

That salsa sounds good as a mofo! The stuff I made this past week is almost gone. It is pretty spicy with habaneros, jalapenos and serranos, lime juice, salt, garlic, roasted tomatoes and cilantro because... YUM!

ha yeah it was awesome, my wife said lets see what we learn in Guadalajara this week and bring new ideas to my next batch on Sunday. I think I'll get in the habit of making my own salsa from here on out during sundays meal prep anyways. I admittedly forgot lime and cilantro last time! so it can only get better from here....

I somehow lost my gym bag with my dongle to get into the 24 hr gym, so I had to drive over to my other gym and wait for them to open at 5:00AM.

oh no, like lost it lost it for good? I'd be so bummed if I lost my gym bag, there's sooo much gear in there

 

[Hyde]

6 liters is already 1.5 gallons. That’s not a wild amount for a highly muscular man who sweats a fair amount…but what’s the 7th liter, the extra 2 pints, accomplishing that 1.5 gallons isn’t already? Especially when you’re not used to 5 liters total fluid apparently?

More water after a point just means you have to turn over more electrolytes and pee more often. It does suppress appetite & inhibit digestion, if you are hungry.

 

[MrKleen73]

ha yeah it was awesome, my wife said lets see what we learn in Guadalajara this week and bring new ideas to my next batch on Sunday. I think I'll get in the habit of making my own salsa from here on out during sundays meal prep anyways. I admittedly forgot lime and cilantro last time! so it can only get better from here....


oh no, like lost it lost it for good? I'd be so bummed if I lost my gym bag, there's sooo much gear in there

Well, lost enough I couldn't find it this morning after the gym. I am afraid I left it at the gym yesterday and no one turned it into lost and found so it is probably gone. Had a set of metal barbell collars, my versa grips, some resistance bands for warm ups, and the dongle to get into the other gym, which I think I have to pay $25 to replace... Thank goodness I had my earbuds and stuff in my pocket normally I have those in the bag. I am going to look again tonight, but I feel like I did a pretty thorough job of looking this morning.

6 liters is already 1.5 gallons. That’s not a wild amount for a highly muscular man who sweats a fair amount…but what’s the 7th liter, the extra 2 pints, accomplishing that 1.5 gallons isn’t already? Especially when you’re not used to 5 liters total fluid apparently?

More water after a point just means you have to turn over more electrolytes and pee more often. It does suppress appetite & inhibit digestion, if you are hungry.

Yeah, that is more water than I have really ever drank intentionally on a regular basis. I am normally somewhere around a gallon of water then whatever other fluids. He has me replacing sodium all day with it too. So we shall see. Maybe he is doing it to lower appetite but honestly if that is the only reason it is being a wasted effort. I am not that hungry anyway. I will give this a shot this week to see how it pans out but if I am constantly in the restroom and am not seeing some other benefit I will discuss bringing that down to 5-6 liters.

 

[Dustin07]

Well, lost enough I couldn't find it this morning after the gym. I am afraid I left it at the gym yesterday and no one turned it into lost and found so it is probably gone. Had a set of metal barbell collars, my versa grips, some resistance bands for warm ups, and the dongle to get into the other gym, which I think I have to pay $25 to replace... Thank goodness I had my earbuds and stuff in my pocket normally I have those in the bag. I am going to look again tonight, but I feel like I did a pretty thorough job of looking this morning.

that sucks dude, I hope it shows up. when I lost my inzer it wasn't in the lost and found and a couple days later I went ahead and asked again...just incase... and magically it was there lol. maybe you will get lucky.

 

[MrKleen73]

that sucks dude, I hope it shows up. when I lost my inzer it wasn't in the lost and found and a couple days later I went ahead and asked again...just incase... and magically it was there lol. maybe you will get lucky.

Yeah that is what the guy at the desk said. I sure do hope I don't stumble across someone using my versa grips... My dog chewed off one of the corners of the leather on one of them so I will be able to tell they are mine. I can see me bitch slapping someone over any backtalk about giving them back... Well maybe just take them to the front and report them. LOL

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Yeah that is what the guy at the desk said. I sure do hope I don't stumble across someone using my versa grips... My dog chewed off one of the corners of the leather on one of them so I will be able to tell they are mine. I can see me bitch slapping someone over any backtalk about giving them back... Well maybe just take them to the front and report them. LOL

I prefer the “scorched earth” methodology or even The Writ of Hammurabi, but to each there own…

 

[MrKleen73]

I prefer the “scorched earth” methodology or even The Writ of Hammurabi, but to each there own…

Haha, I am trying to teach myself to be a good boy and manage my aggression while on cycle. I promised my wife long ago I won't be a total ass on gear and that I would stop or back off if I couldn't control myself. I learned the first part to curbing it is to not allow myself to say the aggressive things when not angry so maybe I will cause myself to pause and think about it if I am angry about something.