Classic Kleen - The Road To Competition Fall 2024

[MrKleen73]

I was 225 at 35ish% 5’6” w an upwind. Wasn’t a good look. Had to hold my breath to tie my work boots. Lmao. You are giving me hope. Were you “enhanced” the entire time? Were u lifting when u were at your heaviest?

No, I had a shoulder surgery in August of last year, so I just worked legs and the right side of my upper body. I ran a small recovery cycle that finished up the first week of January. Just a little extra test and some EQ for collagen production for healing. I was lifting very light at that time rehabbing my left shoulder and biceps. Once that was over, I was at a point I could start working the arm and shoulder harder and just kept rebuilding from there. Before the recovery cycle after my surgery it had been probably 4 years since I had touched any hormones other than TRT. So this is my first real cycle where I plan to do any productive lifting. The other one was more focused on enhancing healing, and speeding up recovery.

At this point, I am not even sure I will still be on cycle as of next week. He may choose to pull the gear, cut me then reintroduce gear. I have no clue exactly where he will take it. That's why I hired him, to have me do whatever is best for my goals that I just don't have the specific experience for running this to get the most out of it the way he will.

 

[gphagan1]

Oh yeah, only couple of the gym shots came out decently they are all washed out. I was standing too directly under the lights. Here are a couple shots of me this morning at 202.1 before doing any exercise. Loose skin is doing a little better, psuedo-gyno and gyno on the way down for sure. The erectors are looking sick in that RDB shot, almost like some abs on my midback. Rear delts are looking juicy too.

View attachment 237146View attachment 237147

View attachment 237148View attachment 237149

Looking really good….everything is popping, especially your arms and legs.

 

[MrKleen73]

Looking good. You probably need to be leaned back that far for the judges below you, but on the rear lat spread it’s tough to see the back as well with you leaned quite so far back from this head on viewing. The rear double bi shows it all off nicely though like you said.

Making admiral progress!

Thanks @Hyde , that is part of what I noticed as well. I think about 4-6 feet further back away from the overhead light and I could have gotten enough light even under my back with that lean to show some detail. However you are probably right that being posed like that is for the judges who are below you, not a camera that is dead on. I didn't think about that initially when taking the pics. I didn't want to waste time looking at them at the gym. I already spent 10 minutes setting up the tripod and taking these pictures. So I didn't want to look at them or I would have taken the time to reposition myself and took them again.

 

[MrKleen73]

Looking really good….everything is popping, especially your arms and legs.

Thank you Sir!

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

No, I had a shoulder surgery in August of last year, so I just worked legs and the right side of my upper body. I ran a small recovery cycle that finished up the first week of January. Just a little extra test and some EQ for collagen production for healing. I was lifting very light at that time rehabbing my left shoulder and biceps. Once that was over, I was at a point I could start working the arm and shoulder harder and just kept rebuilding from there. Before the recovery cycle after my surgery it had been probably 4 years since I had touched any hormones other than TRT. So this is my first real cycle where I plan to do any productive lifting. The other one was more focused on enhancing healing, and speeding up recovery.

At this point, I am not even sure I will still be on cycle as of next week. He may choose to pull the gear, cut me then reintroduce gear. I have no clue exactly where he will take it. That's why I hired him, to have me do whatever is best for my goals that I just don't have the specific experience for running this to get the most out of it the way he will.

Crazy when the “outside looking in” point of view can see the right path but when you are trying to manipulate your own routine it’s almost like you can no longer look at it objectively.

 

[akboom87]

DUDE!! Ripped man! Awesome progress and super pumped for this new journey you are on. All I can say is wow, hard work and it’s showing big time.

 

[Dustin07]

I've always said you were my motivation for a big back!
that huge ass you got has got to contribute to how you can just casually walk in to some fat squats as a test here and there whereas I have to ramp up to the same weight as a 1rm

I can't imagine how conditioned you will look with another year of training, you're already beach ready man. gladiator mode activated.

Loose skin is doing a little better, psuedo-gyno and gyno on the way down for sure.

it will be interesting to see if the new coach has any opinion on fasting. one thing that did come up a lot this year in my own research of fasting was how it seems to really help with the loose skin. luckily you really don't have much at all though. you're in a great place right now.

 

[MrKleen73]

Crazy when the “outside looking in” point of view can see the right path but when you are trying to manipulate your own routine it’s almost like you can no longer look at it objectively.

Yes, it is definitely harder to be objective if it is you.

DUDE!! Ripped man! Awesome progress and super pumped for this new journey you are on. All I can say is wow, hard work and it’s showing big time.

Thanks Brother!

I've always said you were my motivation for a big back!
that huge ass you got has got to contribute to how you can just casually walk in to some fat squats as a test here and there whereas I have to ramp up to the same weight as a 1rm

I can't imagine how conditioned you will look with another year of training, you're already beach ready man. gladiator mode activated.



it will be interesting to see if the new coach has any opinion on fasting. one thing that did come up a lot this year in my own research of fasting was how it seems to really help with the loose skin. luckily you really don't have much at all though. you're in a great place right now.

Yeah, honestly now I know even though there is some it gets so thin and folds over to where it is almost invisible. Plus some creative posing helps to hide it too. So not really too worried about it.

I should have his plan for me sometime Thursday. I don't expect much on the fasting front but if that is one of the tools he uses I at least know I am okay doing it.

Huge Ass... CHECK! My wife used to talk about it all the time when I would squat. She was like it comes back at you all 3D like where did that come from! LOL

Yeah, I am excited to see what he is able to have me bring to the table.

 

[dapack]

Legs are looking pretty meaty!!

 

[MrKleen73]

Legs are looking pretty meaty!!

Thanks!

 

[Segansational]

It's crazy when you are about to pull the trigger on something like this and get that little bit of anxiousness creep in. What if I don't like it or we don't gel well. Yada yada yada, but I think this is going to be a good thing. Sucks knowing I won't be able to run any GH but I think I will be okay with that knowing I most likely made the better decision with this.

Definitely, but now you've committed. You've put your money where you mouth is, so that is no small feat! Really looking forward to seeing how you like working with this coach.

And as others have said, your current progress is looking great, so with a coach now to guide you sky's the limit!

 

[Dustin07]

Yeah, honestly now I know even though there is some it gets so thin and folds over to where it is almost invisible. Plus some creative posing helps to hide it too. So not really too worried about it.

first off, I didn't notice it at all so yeah... my comments aren't cause I saw an issue at all, only replying to your thoughts lol. Wanted to be clear on that... But today I stumbled down a rabbit hole elsewhere and someone was posting about cryo therapy for exactly this purpose. I thought that was sorta interesting!

I should have his plan for me sometime Thursday. I don't expect much on the fasting front but if that is one of the tools he uses I at least know I am okay doing it.

Layne was getting into a social media war the other day with fasters and I stayed out of it cause I'm a huge layne fan but have had success with this fasting stuff. Definitely seems as though fasting has not yet received positive consensus in the BB world, I'm just curious to see when someone (if) does finally incorporate it into the physique side of things. We've had such great results with it here on AM, it sorta blows my mind that traditional guys would be opposed. I know my strength and energy levels are far better with a week of incorporated fasting vs a week in the same caloric deficit buy done on a daily basis.

 

[MrKleen73]

Definitely, but now you've committed. You've put your money where you mouth is, so that is no small feat! Really looking forward to seeing how you like working with this coach.

And as others have said, your current progress is looking great, so with a coach now to guide you sky's the limit!

Agreed, and now that I have commited I am dying to see what he has for me. I keep checking notifications to see if he has sent me anything. I am just dying to see what he has in store. Very curious how lean we will be going before turning it around for the rebound. So many things going through my head but most importantly I am very excited about the idea of putting on 20-40lbs without being a tub o lard. I would assume we will probably go down around 8% but you know what making assumptions does.

Yesterday's Macros were pretty much perfect, then I had a large cookie last night. Luckily I have the macros for it. Not too far over my target but I know things are about to get a lot tighter so I wanted to enjoy myself a little bit before getting the new plan.

=============================================================================

10/25/23 - Morning Weight 203.1 - That cookie, lots of salt, and 321g of carbs helped hold on to some weight. I looked full and tight this morning.

Pull/Shoulders/Biceps - Tempo 4-2-1-1 on Back Movements, Relative Effort 1-0RIR

Mega Mass lat pull down 135*8, 7, 8 - This machine has a pretty good feel for a switch up but I prefer the Arsenal one. This one is lighter in the stretched position and heavier on the bottom which is the opposite of what we want for tension and hypertrophy.

Cable Rows - 110*14, 11, 9 - Some nice sets here, implementing the rocking method via Wycked Training and got some great contractions.

Arsenal standing side raise - 50*14, 12, 11, 10.5@F - Did these with the Wycked Rocking motion and really got the medial delts fired up!!! I feel like I am getting the hang of this method and finding it superior for hitting the target muscles. Mike Van Wyck really understands movement and muscle tension lines.

Cable rear delt pulls - 20*20, 20, 15 - Again the Wycked Method on these, I have never isolated my rear delts so well before. Between these and the rear delt swings the way he suggests, I have 2 amazingly improved exercises for rear delts.

Alternating DB curls 35*9, 7, 6 - Using the Wycked Drop shoulder and scoop method. Blew my biceps out of the water on these.

Biceps, Triceps, Traps and Abs later today, really enjoying how things are going.

I may take a few liberties this weekend if he doesn't have me locked down. Just get one last really good meal that I don't care what the macros or calories are.

I got one of the guys up there to take a couple shots of my rear delt while it was pumped. He tried to get fancy with a walk around and didn't get me in a dead on but it ended up giving me a view from alternate angles. I am not flexing my biceps or anything just kind of holding the shot so my rear delt pops. Can you imagine if my medial delts were this developed?

Here is one he took just because he thought my back looked crazy from that angle. I have to agree the width is more impressive in this shot than many others coming up off of that twisted waist.

 

[MrKleen73]

first off, I didn't notice it at all so yeah... my comments aren't cause I saw an issue at all, only replying to your thoughts lol. Wanted to be clear on that... But today I stumbled down a rabbit hole elsewhere and someone was posting about cryo therapy for exactly this purpose. I thought that was sorta interesting!



Layne was getting into a social media war the other day with fasters and I stayed out of it cause I'm a huge layne fan but have had success with this fasting stuff. Definitely seems as though fasting has not yet received positive consensus in the BB world, I'm just curious to see when someone (if) does finally incorporate it into the physique side of things. We've had such great results with it here on AM, it sorta blows my mind that traditional guys would be opposed. I know my strength and energy levels are far better with a week of incorporated fasting vs a week in the same caloric deficit buy done on a daily basis.

Yeah, I know where it is so when I see it, it is obvious to me. It just makes the cuts look a little smoother in the early parts of leaning up, but not so much I can't pose around it, nor do I think it will be a major factor in the contest.

As far as fasting for competition I believe there are a few and I am pretty sure Martin Berkham preps people with fasting. He is the originator of the Lean Gains Fasting Protocol. I am not sure if it will ever catch on as a mainstream method for prep. While I think it is excellent for a lifestyle eating plan, and to be able to recomp and still have excellent performance. I am not sure the lack of protein on those days will ever catch on for the larger physique athletes, but who knows.

I definitely do not think that fasting has any place in someone who is trying to gain maximal muscles plans. You need consistent MPS stimulation, and want to keep the anabolic signalling going with insulin for growth so fasting goes in the face of that. So during a bulk or massing phase I don't see the benefit. I can see doing it as a quick clean up during a bulk if you push to far but even then, if maximal growth is the plan then just back off of calories and keep stimulating MPS regularly via food.

 

[Hyde]

Chris Duffin was big on IF. As a lifestyle diet that allowed him to handle his business, and previously as an engineer in a big corporation, he used it to help stay lean and jacked - Chris was water-cutting from ~250 to 220 while already having solid abs at the end of his competitive powerlifting, at a height of maybe 5’9”. So I knew it was viable for any kind of actually strong physique I’d personally be interested in. You can support a LOT of dense muscle while still incorporating fasting.

And when he was trying to get as heavy as possible before attempting his 1,000 squat exhibition later on, he did not fast - he tried to eat everything he possibly could all the time, because absolute weight was the goal.

So if you want absolutely maximal muscle, the diet and process would be much more tuned, but ultimately you will protect more muscle with more targeted nutrition and exogenous GH & insulin application in a bodybuilding scenario. Nothing in serious bodybuilding leaves the body’s endogenous production to chance. You engineer it all, as well as overdriving it to superhuman levels. But that is neither healthier or simpler - just more effective long run.

 

[Dustin07]

As far as fasting for competition I believe there are a few and I am pretty sure Martin Berkham preps people with fasting. He is the originator of the Lean Gains Fasting Protocol. I am not sure if it will ever catch on as a mainstream method for prep. While I think it is excellent for a lifestyle eating plan, and to be able to recomp and still have excellent performance. I am not sure the lack of protein on those days will ever catch on for the larger physique athletes, but who knows.

I definitely do not think that fasting has any place in someone who is trying to gain maximal muscles plans. You need consistent MPS stimulation, and want to keep the anabolic signalling going with insulin for growth so fasting goes in the face of that. So during a bulk or massing phase I don't see the benefit. I can see doing it as a quick clean up during a bulk if you push to far but even then, if maximal growth is the plan then just back off of calories and keep stimulating MPS regularly via food.

I still don't know enough to say I know much about, just what I've learned this year with only really 10 months of periodic application. I loved the results I had back in May with ADF / Surplus days, and then maintenance throughout though.

Chris Duffin was big on IF. As a lifestyle diet that allowed him to handle his business, and previously as an engineer in a big corporation, he used it to help stay lean and jacked - Chris was water-cutting from ~250 to 220 while already having solid abs at the end of his competitive powerlifting, at a height of maybe 5’9”. So I knew it was viable for any kind of actually strong physique I’d personally be interested in. You can support a LOT of dense muscle while still incorporating fasting.

I'm a fan of Chris Duffin, I just did a little googling and will have to read up on his fasting protocols. His whiskey and deadlifts article always sorta fascinated. I've not yet taken it to the level of bringing a mini to the gym with me, and i'm not 100% sure I want to, but the guy is a beast.

 

[Resolve10]

Yeah, I know where it is so when I see it, it is obvious to me. It just makes the cuts look a little smoother in the early parts of leaning up, but not so much I can't pose around it, nor do I think it will be a major factor in the contest.

As far as fasting for competition I believe there are a few and I am pretty sure Martin Berkham preps people with fasting. He is the originator of the Lean Gains Fasting Protocol. I am not sure if it will ever catch on as a mainstream method for prep. While I think it is excellent for a lifestyle eating plan, and to be able to recomp and still have excellent performance. I am not sure the lack of protein on those days will ever catch on for the larger physique athletes, but who knows.

I definitely do not think that fasting has any place in someone who is trying to gain maximal muscles plans. You need consistent MPS stimulation, and want to keep the anabolic signalling going with insulin for growth so fasting goes in the face of that. So during a bulk or massing phase I don't see the benefit. I can see doing it as a quick clean up during a bulk if you push to far but even then, if maximal growth is the plan then just back off of calories and keep stimulating MPS regularly via food.

Ya I think that is the thing, it has been like 15 years of having to deal with some dudes always coming out trying to act like fasting is some miracle cure for stuff.

The evidence based community, like Layne, have never said fasting doesn't work, just that a lot of the research doesn't align with some of the crazier claims.

For people targeting specific health benefits it may have some merits, for those trying to lose weight it probably is about as good as traditional continual intake (and for those that find it psychologically more efficient that may be a good reason to choose it), but current research definitely shows it being probably fine for gaining and performance, just not the most optimal. If you try to fit in 3-4 protein boluses that are enough to stimulate optimal MPS and don't spend too long in a fast it might be ok, but definitely doesn't seem optimal (again based on the current research which is why I can't really think of any evidence based guys who recommend it blindly).

Most of these evidence based guys are natural proponents too, so idk how much being enhanced could shift it, but generally the more boring, long term focused, and just continual moving forward type plans are what they are falling back on.

 

[MrKleen73]

Chris Duffin was big on IF. As a lifestyle diet that allowed him to handle his business, and previously as an engineer in a big corporation, he used it to help stay lean and jacked - Chris was water-cutting from ~250 to 220 while already having solid abs at the end of his competitive powerlifting, at a height of maybe 5’9”. So I knew it was viable for any kind of actually strong physique I’d personally be interested in. You can support a LOT of dense muscle while still incorporating fasting.

And when he was trying to get as heavy as possible before attempting his 1,000 squat exhibition later on, he did not fast - he tried to eat everything he possibly could all the time, because absolute weight was the goal.

So if you want absolutely maximal muscle, the diet and process would be much more tuned, but ultimately you will protect more muscle with more targeted nutrition and exogenous GH & insulin application in a bodybuilding scenario. Nothing in serious bodybuilding leaves the body’s endogenous production to chance. You engineer it all, as well as overdriving it to superhuman levels. But that is neither healthier or simpler - just more effective long run.

Agreed, once I am done competing I will more than likely go back to doing some fasting here and there as part of a lifestyle nutritional solution. However the next year I will be ten toes down with the daily feeding and trying to do the damn thing!

 

[gphagan1]

Agreed, and now that I have commited I am dying to see what he has for me. I keep checking notifications to see if he has sent me anything. I am just dying to see what he has in store. Very curious how lean we will be going before turning it around for the rebound. So many things going through my head but most importantly I am very excited about the idea of putting on 20-40lbs without being a tub o lard. I would assume we will probably go down around 8% but you know what making assumptions does.

Yesterday's Macros were pretty much perfect, then I had a large cookie last night. Luckily I have the macros for it. Not too far over my target but I know things are about to get a lot tighter so I wanted to enjoy myself a little bit before getting the new plan.
View attachment 237195

=============================================================================

10/25/23 - Morning Weight 203.1 - That cookie, lots of salt, and 321g of carbs helped hold on to some weight. I looked full and tight this morning.

Pull/Shoulders/Biceps - Tempo 4-2-1-1 on Back Movements, Relative Effort 1-0RIR

Mega Mass lat pull down 135*8, 7, 8 - This machine has a pretty good feel for a switch up but I prefer the Arsenal one. This one is lighter in the stretched position and heavier on the bottom which is the opposite of what we want for tension and hypertrophy.

Cable Rows - 110*14, 11, 9 - Some nice sets here, implementing the rocking method via Wycked Training and got some great contractions.

Arsenal standing side raise - 50*14, 12, 11, 10.5@F - Did these with the Wycked Rocking motion and really got the medial delts fired up!!! I feel like I am getting the hang of this method and finding it superior for hitting the target muscles. Mike Van Wyck really understands movement and muscle tension lines.

Cable rear delt pulls - 20*20, 20, 15 - Again the Wycked Method on these, I have never isolated my rear delts so well before. Between these and the rear delt swings the way he suggests, I have 2 amazingly improved exercises for rear delts.

Alternating DB curls 35*9, 7, 6 - Using the Wycked Drop shoulder and scoop method. Blew my biceps out of the water on these.

Biceps, Triceps, Traps and Abs later today, really enjoying how things are going.

I may take a few liberties this weekend if he doesn't have me locked down. Just get one last really good meal that I don't care what the macros or calories are.

I got one of the guys up there to take a couple shots of my rear delt while it was pumped. He tried to get fancy with a walk around and didn't get me in a dead on but it ended up giving me a view from alternate angles. I am not flexing my biceps or anything just kind of holding the shot so my rear delt pops. Can you imagine if my medial delts were this developed?

View attachment 237197

Here is one he took just because he thought my back looked crazy from that angle. I have to agree the width is more impressive in this shot than many others coming up off of that twisted waist.

View attachment 237198

He took a good shot of your back…..that little twist really highlighted the width of your back in relation to your waist. I need to check out the Wycked method, I’m always interested in something that can hit the muscles at different angles.
Yeah, you might want to enjoy some cheat meals while you can, because I’m sure he’ll be going for an aggressive cut if going in that 8% range.

Yeah, I know where it is so when I see it, it is obvious to me. It just makes the cuts look a little smoother in the early parts of leaning up, but not so much I can't pose around it, nor do I think it will be a major factor in the contest.

As far as fasting for competition I believe there are a few and I am pretty sure Martin Berkham preps people with fasting. He is the originator of the Lean Gains Fasting Protocol. I am not sure if it will ever catch on as a mainstream method for prep. While I think it is excellent for a lifestyle eating plan, and to be able to recomp and still have excellent performance. I am not sure the lack of protein on those days will ever catch on for the larger physique athletes, but who knows.

I definitely do not think that fasting has any place in someone who is trying to gain maximal muscles plans. You need consistent MPS stimulation, and want to keep the anabolic signalling going with insulin for growth so fasting goes in the face of that. So during a bulk or massing phase I don't see the benefit. I can see doing it as a quick clean up during a bulk if you push to far but even then, if maximal growth is the plan then just back off of calories and keep stimulating MPS regularly via food.

Chris Duffin was big on IF. As a lifestyle diet that allowed him to handle his business, and previously as an engineer in a big corporation, he used it to help stay lean and jacked - Chris was water-cutting from ~250 to 220 while already having solid abs at the end of his competitive powerlifting, at a height of maybe 5’9”. So I knew it was viable for any kind of actually strong physique I’d personally be interested in. You can support a LOT of dense muscle while still incorporating fasting.

And when he was trying to get as heavy as possible before attempting his 1,000 squat exhibition later on, he did not fast - he tried to eat everything he possibly could all the time, because absolute weight was the goal.

So if you want absolutely maximal muscle, the diet and process would be much more tuned, but ultimately you will protect more muscle with more targeted nutrition and exogenous GH & insulin application in a bodybuilding scenario. Nothing in serious bodybuilding leaves the body’s endogenous production to chance. You engineer it all, as well as overdriving it to superhuman levels. But that is neither healthier or simpler - just more effective long run.

This is some good information here. I had always been of the mindset to only use Intermittent Fasting, but not longer fasts, until I seen the success you three guys have had this year. It just goes to show some high level coaches may have differing opinions on it, but when done intelligently and balancing the priorities of your goals, and understanding how the timing of it works in your body, you can still build muscle while stripping fat. It will be interesting to hear your coach’s opinion on it.

 

[MrKleen73]

I still don't know enough to say I know much about, just what I've learned this year with only really 10 months of periodic application. I loved the results I had back in May with ADF / Surplus days, and then maintenance throughout though.



I'm a fan of Chris Duffin, I just did a little googling and will have to read up on his fasting protocols. His whiskey and deadlifts article always sorta fascinated. I've not yet taken it to the level of bringing a mini to the gym with me, and i'm not 100% sure I want to, but the guy is a beast.

Oh, no doubt, the results are great for the niche you are using them in for sure. As far as cutting goes, the results again are great too. Where it falls is getting in as much MPS as possible for someone who is trying to grow maximally. However that doesn't mean it doesn't still do a good job in that situation, just not the best job. The 16?8 fasting protocol offers the best of both worlds for physique people IMHO. You have the ability to get 3 MPS stimulating meals in during your 8 hour feeding window which is not bad at all just not 4 or 5 throughout the entire day.

 

[MrKleen73]

He took a good shot of your back…..that little twist really highlighted the width of your back in relation to your waist. I need to check out the Wycked method, I’m always interested in something that can hit the muscles at different angles.
Yeah, you might want to enjoy some cheat meals while you can, because I’m sure he’ll be going for an aggressive cut if going in that 8% range.


This is some good information here. I had always been of the mindset to only use Intermittent Fasting, but not longer fasts, until I seen the success you three guys have had this year. It just goes to show some high level coaches may have differing opinions on it, but when done intelligently and balancing the priorities of your goals, and understanding how the timing of it works in your body, you can still build muscle while stripping fat. It will be interesting to hear your coach’s opinion on it.

Yeah, that back shot was like wow, that is wide! Agreed, I will probably at least get one more big surplus style meal in before things get hectic. The thought on the 8% is just me doing math in my head though, not anything he told me. More than anything I assume he will want me no more than 12-15% body fat when we start prep, and he mentioned gaining 5-7% bodyfat with that 20-40lbs gain. So I figure we probably need to be around 8% to start and not cross the 15% threshold but that is just me thinking.

 

[MrKleen73]

10/25/23 Lunch Arm Session

Smith CGP 135*12, 12, 10 - Great contractions and pump on these. Performed somewhere in between a normal CGBP, and a JM Press

Single Arm Cable Triceps extensions 35*18, 15, 13 - Holy Hell the pump and burn on these.

Single Arm DB Hammer Curls 30*8, 8, 7 - These were hard!

DB Side Swings - 15* 1 AMRAP Set =19 - Just getting blood in the medial delts again.

DB Rear Delt Swing - 15* 1 AMRAP Set =17 - Just getting blood in the rear delts again.

Ridiculous Pump on this one. My triceps barely even show a horseshoe they were so full, and biceps swole up like I was having an allergic reaction. I am definitely looking ON now. People are commenting a lot more now about my physique. Lots of Damn man, you are really getting lean, or you are getting friggin jacked Chris!!! Always nice to hear, and pretty sure there is no way I make it through this bad boy with out 75% of the people guessing I am on. LOL Oh well. Let them guess, at least that means my physique is gossip worthy!

 

[akboom87]

10/25/23 Lunch Arm Session

Smith CGP 135*12, 12, 10 - Great contractions and pump on these. Performed somewhere in between a normal CGBP, and a JM Press

Single Arm Cable Triceps extensions 35*18, 15, 13 - Holy Hell the pump and burn on these.

Single Arm DB Hammer Curls 30*8, 8, 7 - These were hard!

DB Side Swings - 15* 1 AMRAP Set =19 - Just getting blood in the medial delts again.

DB Rear Delt Swing - 15* 1 AMRAP Set =17 - Just getting blood in the rear delts again.

Ridiculous Pump on this one. My triceps barely even show a horseshoe they were so full, and biceps swole up like I was having an allergic reaction. I am definitely looking ON now. People are commenting a lot more now about my physique. Lots of Damn man, you are really getting lean, or you are getting friggin jacked Chris!!! Always nice to hear, and pretty sure there is no way I make it through this bad boy with out 75% of the people guessing I am on. LOL Oh well. Let them guess, at least that means my physique is gossip worthy!

Nice session! This DB hammer curls are one of my favorites. The single arm tricep extension, do you use the single rope or one of the handles? I tried the handle one day but I couldn’t get in the groove of it.

 

[MrKleen73]

Nice session! This DB hammer curls are one of my favorites. The single arm tricep extension, do you use the single rope or one of the handles? I tried the handle one day but I couldn’t get in the groove of it.

I tried the regular handle but found I get a better connection to the triceps just looping my index finger and thumb over the ball and doing them that way. I am doing them how Wycked Training says to do them. It is hard to believe how effective his tweaks are at directly targeting the muscle. I am getting connections like I have not had before and have been lifting since I was 12...

 

[gphagan1]

10/25/23 Lunch Arm Session

Smith CGP 135*12, 12, 10 - Great contractions and pump on these. Performed somewhere in between a normal CGBP, and a JM Press

Single Arm Cable Triceps extensions 35*18, 15, 13 - Holy Hell the pump and burn on these.

Single Arm DB Hammer Curls 30*8, 8, 7 - These were hard!

DB Side Swings - 15* 1 AMRAP Set =19 - Just getting blood in the medial delts again.

DB Rear Delt Swing - 15* 1 AMRAP Set =17 - Just getting blood in the rear delts again.

Ridiculous Pump on this one. My triceps barely even show a horseshoe they were so full, and biceps swole up like I was having an allergic reaction. I am definitely looking ON now. People are commenting a lot more now about my physique. Lots of Damn man, you are really getting lean, or you are getting friggin jacked Chris!!! Always nice to hear, and pretty sure there is no way I make it through this bad boy with out 75% of the people guessing I am on. LOL Oh well. Let them guess, at least that means my physique is gossip worthy!

Always liked the “you look jacked…you on roids?” comments…..that means it’s working. Just tell them, you’re no more ON than the Liver King…just kidding. Seriously though, it does feel good when the guys at the gym are impressed.

 

[MrKleen73]

Always liked the “you look jacked…you on roids?” comments…..that means it’s working. Just tell them, you’re no more ON than the Liver King…just kidding. Seriously though, it does feel good when the guys at the gym are impressed.

Yeah for sure! It has mostly been people at work lately just being very impressed all the sudden. Lots of "Wow you are really leaning up!", and You are looking jacked!" comments from coworkers. It definitely feels good to hear it. I mean we work to build it so compliments are always nice.

I am sure either as I get leaner while growing, or when I blow up after that I will be getting the you on roids question from those willing to ask. If I hit 220 as lean as I am now, I will be a force to be reckoned with when I step on stage. Honestly my biggest weak point is my medial delts and I am hoping those will be relatively easy to grow with a lot of focus on them. I have just never put much focus on them because I wasn't bodybuilding and my shoulders look fine for just a bigger muscular guy. Now I want them to be almost cartoonish!

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

I tried the regular handle but found I get a better connection to the triceps just looping my index finger and thumb over the ball and doing them that way. I am doing them how Wycked Training says to do them. It is hard to believe how effective his tweaks are at directly targeting the muscle. I am getting connections like I have not had before and have been lifting since I was 12...

Are you doing the standing over head ones? It’s like a dart throwing motion? If so I have been doing those last 6-8 wks. You are spot on. Really great connection w the muscle. Simple tweaks

 

[Hyde]

Does anyone using gear even want to look like a natural bodybuilder? I mean, I am always sad when someone asks if I take gear. The fact they weren’t already certain means I need to be trying a lot harder

 

[MrKleen73]

Are you doing the standing over head ones? It’s like a dart throwing motion? If so I have been doing those last 6-8 wks. You are spot on. Really great connection w the muscle. Simple tweaks

No, just regular one arm extensions but finding the line of tension before starting and then "throwing" the arm back to get the rest of the long head to completely contract in a shortened position. He did a whole Triceps training video you can check out.

Does anyone using gear even want to look like a natural bodybuilder? I mean, I am always sad when someone asks if I take gear. The fact they weren’t already certain means I need to be trying a lot harder

Facts, but to be honest, I have never truly fed the roids enough to have a true blow up. If I gain 20-40lbs from say 190 and end up around my current bodyfat there is no realm where it isn't obvious I am on gear. Which is something I for some reason always seemed to care about previously. Not this time. I am just a little more secure in myself and what I am doing now. Like if you have to ask then you just don't know what is possible naturally. Also it's personal and none of their business.

I actually can't wait for the first person who knows something about training and gear to see me and be like Dude, what are you on. Like @gphagan1 said that always feels good.

My legs are still a little sore from the other day, was a great leg session. I feel I am dialing in on the foot positioning for best muscle connection / tension.

It has now been 48 hours since I sent my info over to the coach, so I expect to get my plan sometime today. Definitely looking forward to seeing what he has to offer. I know he is staying down here somewhere with his coach and finishing the last month of prep here getting ready for his show so I can understand if there is a little delay, but as long as I have the information by the weekend to buy what I need for next week we are solid.

Macros - Lower calorie day, I thought I cleared the 200g mark on protein but just missed it. Since my head is already in the I have to start leaning back up mentality I adjusted cals a little. Mostly to make room so I can have at least one more big fun meal before we buckle down.

10/26/23 - Morning Weight 201 - Looking tighter than yesterday, body seems to be visually changing every couple of days. Definitely starting to fill out, and I think the 350t/250m set up is starting to help with estrogen levels now. My knees are not quite as tight or creeky now, and I look more full so probably maintaining a higher level of hydration now too.

I will just be doing some cardio at lunch today. Nothing major just burning a lil fat.

 

[Dustin07]

If I hit 220 as lean as I am now, I will be a force to be reckoned with when I step on stage.

holy **** dude, remind me; what did you weight last time you were on stage?

Does anyone using gear even want to look like a natural bodybuilder? I mean, I am always sad when someone asks if I take gear.

lol no. mad respect for natty bodybuilders but it's always very obvious IMO. although I used to laugh when people would ask me if I was on gear just cause I was lean. I was weighing like 176. if that's my heaviest on gear then I'm just gonna shoot myself now. lol

 

[MrKleen73]

holy **** dude, remind me; what did you weight last time you were on stage?



lol no. mad respect for natty bodybuilders but it's always very obvious IMO. although I used to laugh when people would ask me if I was on gear just cause I was lean. I was weighing like 176. if that's my heaviest on gear then I'm just gonna shoot myself now. lol

Well, stage weight was like 171 after I lost 8lbs overnight due to messing with a diuretic and then the place i went to get my dirty refeed for some reason did not have any of their big cheesecakes left. Which is what i was supposed to be doing my final refeed on. Otherwise I would have been around 178-80 on stage. In those pics I posted the other day I was between 5-6% at 183-185. I think being around 220 at my current bodyfat would have me needing to lose around 25-30lbs to get on stage. Expecting anywhere between 185-192 stage weight. It really just depends on how much I can grow. Plus there is the business of weight classes and height. Either way it looks like I will have around 15-20lbs more stage weight if all goes according to plan.

 

[Dustin07]

Either way it looks like I will have around 15-20lbs more stage weight if all goes according to plan.

that's substantial progress!

 

[MrKleen73]

that's substantial progress!

Yeah, I should look like a completely different competitor. Of course that other comp was a natty comp so one would hope my stage weight makes a jump from there with the addition of anabolics.

 

[MrKleen73]

Cardio - Elliptical - 35 minutes - 374 calories.

 

[jimbuick]

Cardio - Elliptical - 35 minutes - 374 calories.

How do you feel about the plan Pat has you on? Seem like something you’re gonna enjoy?

I ask cuz I’ve been considering working with him once I start getting paid. Just not sure it makes sense for me to spend that money when I’m not planning on competing, though.

 

[MrKleen73]

How do you feel about the plan Pat has you on? Seem like something you’re gonna enjoy?

I ask cuz I’ve been considering working with him once I start getting paid. Just not sure it makes sense for me to spend that money when I’m not planning on competing, though.

I am actually about to hit him up and ask where my plan is. He said I should have it within 48 hours of sending him my intake form responses. So I thought I would have it yesterday morning. I know he is in the middle of prep so he is pretty busy but I like good communication. So I hope this is not a sign of things to come.

 

[jimbuick]

I am actually about to hit him up and ask where my plan is. He said I should have it within 48 hours of sending him my intake form responses. So I thought I would have it yesterday morning. I know he is in the middle of prep so he is pretty busy but I like good communication. So I hope this is not a sign of things to come.

That would be disappointing and surprising if it was. Everything I’ve seen/heard of him is that he is very hands on and a quick communicator.

 

[MrKleen73]

10/26/23 - Macros

================================================================================

10/27/23 - Morning Weight 200.2 - Looking tight and decently full.

Chest and Shoulders - Tempo = 4-2-1-1 on compound movements, Relative Intensity 3RIR, & Form Failure on DB Swings

Arsenal incline bench press - 55*11,9, 7 - I went in a little closer on grip, and worked on the rolling through the press cue. Great Chest stimulation.

Mega Mass wide chest press - 45*15,15,15 - last set of 15 was probably 2RIR - Just getting in some volume here. I have a slightly tight spot in my left pec so backed off for this session to allow some recovery.

Body Masters shoulder presses - 120*15, 12, 10 - This machine is awesome for shoulders. The pressing line is great, and the adjustable height for the handles really helps get into the best position.

When the old machine beats the Arsenal...

Seated DB Side Swings - 15*20, 20, 15 - Great medial delt pump.

Rear DB Swings - 15*22, 20,19 - I am loving these!!!

Will do arms at work for lunch hour - Well maybe, I forgot they are doing a celebration for all of the work anniversaries today taking us to a steak house for lunch. The 29th is 16 years here. It is a really nice steakhouse but they get us a 6oz sirloin so I may not even go to that and just go to the gym anyway. Otherwise I will have to do arms tonight at home.

That would be disappointing and surprising if it was. Everything I’ve seen/heard of him is that he is very hands on and a quick communicator.

@jimbuick Agreed, but honestly at this point I am not making any judgements. I just don't have much ability not to state my opinion right now. I wonder why... It is so hard to remind myself that just because I suddenly have strong opinions on everything that doesn't mean everyone needs to hear them. LMAO.

I did tell him I was going to kind of back off the rest of the week to be ready to push harder next week. So I wouldn't be starting the training plan until next week anyway. So maybe he thought he didn't need to get the plan to me as soon as he originally said because of that. Either way, I already reached out to him, and am very excited to see what he has in store.

 

[MrKleen73]

@jimbuick - He responded and said I will have it in an hour or two. He just moved down here this week for prep and said things just got out of hand between moving, unpacking, training and 2 hours of cardio a day. Imaging that!

I should have it in about an hour or two. Very excited!

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

10/26/23 - Macros

View attachment 237273

================================================================================

10/27/23 - Morning Weight 200.2 - Looking tight and decently full.

Chest and Shoulders - Tempo = 4-2-1-1 on compound movements, Relative Intensity 3RIR, & Form Failure on DB Swings

Arsenal incline bench press - 55*11,9, 7 - I went in a little closer on grip, and worked on the rolling through the press cue. Great Chest stimulation.

Mega Mass wide chest press - 45*15,15,15 - last set of 15 was probably 2RIR - Just getting in some volume here. I have a slightly tight spot in my left pec so backed off for this session to allow some recovery.

Body Masters shoulder presses - 120*15, 12, 10 - This machine is awesome for shoulders. The pressing line is great, and the adjustable height for the handles really helps get into the best position.

When the old machine beats the Arsenal...

View attachment 237274


Seated DB Side Swings - 15*20, 20, 15 - Great medial delt pump.

Rear DB Swings - 15*22, 20,19 - I am loving these!!!

Will do arms at work for lunch hour - Well maybe, I forgot they are doing a celebration for all of the work anniversaries today taking us to a steak house for lunch. The 29th is 16 years here. It is a really nice steakhouse but they get us a 6oz sirloin so I may not even go to that and just go to the gym anyway. Otherwise I will have to do arms tonight at home.


@jimbuick Agreed, but honestly at this point I am not making any judgements. I just don't have much ability not to state my opinion right now. I wonder why... It is so hard to remind myself that just because I suddenly have strong opinions on everything that doesn't mean everyone needs to hear them. LMAO.

I did tell him I was going to kind of back off the rest of the week to be ready to push harder next week. So I wouldn't be starting the training plan until next week anyway. So maybe he thought he didn't need to get the plan to me as soon as he originally said because of that. Either way, I already reached out to him, and am very excited to see what he has in store.

I like to look at stuff and go over any new routine. Even if it’s not a new routine I still think about tomorrows workout and what I may want to improve from last week

So, I can see why you might want next weeks routine in your inbox before Sunday at 9pm. It matters to me @MrKleen73!

 

[MrKleen73]

I like to look at stuff and go over any new routine. Even if it’s not a new routine I still think about tomorrows workout and what I may want to improve from last week

So, I can see why you might want next weeks routine in your inbox before Sunday at 9pm. It matters to me @MrKleen73!

Yeah, I do want to have a look at it. See if there are any exercises I can't do or don't have access too. Also wrap my mind around how he wants me to train. I did see one of his posts that said if you aren't training to failure what are you doing. So I am curious there. I have 0 issues with training to failure if it is a well designed program, and the lifts are safe to go to failure on. Bench Press - NOPE! Chest press machine = No Problem! Squats, not even close, Pendulum Squats absolutely! So pretty excited like I said. I did tell him if we are doing failure we really needed to focus on joint safety with my old ass!

 

[Dustin07]

I may not even go to that and just go to the gym anyway. Otherwise I will have to do arms tonight at home.

Do you have a hard time getting the same intensity on a second lifting session? I like the idea of it but I often feel like I put so much energy into my main session (and carbs) that the second session would be really lacking for me. Still... the idea of throwing down a hard chest session at lunch then going back for accessories after work sounds enticing.

 

[gphagan1]

Do you have a hard time getting the same intensity on a second lifting session? I like the idea of it but I often feel like I put so much energy into my main session (and carbs) that the second session would be really lacking for me. Still... the idea of throwing down a hard chest session at lunch then going back for accessories after work sounds enticing.

About the closest I ever got to two sessions a day, was back when I was younger I would do cardio (run, jog, heavy bag work) in the morning and lift weights in the evening. Even the few times I switched up and lifted in the mornings and did cardio in the evening just made me feel like I just didn’t I have the same strength. Never really tried the double lifting sessions. But if I ever tried it I would probably do what you said, compound or bigger lifts in the morning and accessory lifts in the evening.

 

[Dustin07]

But if I ever tried it I would probably do what you said, compound or bigger lifts in the morning and accessory lifts in the evening.

yeah I love the idea in theory but the closest I really got was when I was doing endurance sports/xfit comps etc and I could space out more cardio based workouts, or even when my lifting was limited to WODs where heavy weight and hypertrophy were less important to me than endurance etc. Watching Kleen put these 2 a days together sorta gets my brain thinking about other options to get more accomplished.

 

[MrKleen73]

Do you have a hard time getting the same intensity on a second lifting session? I like the idea of it but I often feel like I put so much energy into my main session (and carbs) that the second session would be really lacking for me. Still... the idea of throwing down a hard chest session at lunch then going back for accessories after work sounds enticing.

No Sir, I can get better quality training in. I am more rested for the 2nd session so I can perform better. Basically, if I am doing Say 16-18 sets of chest in one session performance will start to fall off around the 10-12th set. I can still finish the session and get a great pump. However if I do 10-12 in the morning then rest for several hours and refeed not only can I lift more than I would have been able to during the first session but could also easily add a set to each exercise without any issue at all.

With me training multiple muscle groups daily it is even more advantageous because I can save a whole muscle group or two for the next session and add in some cell swelling work or pump work too.

 

[jimbuick]

Yeah, I do want to have a look at it. See if there are any exercises I can't do or don't have access too. Also wrap my mind around how he wants me to train. I did see one of his posts that said if you aren't training to failure what are you doing. So I am curious there. I have 0 issues with training to failure if it is a well designed program, and the lifts are safe to go to failure on. Bench Press - NOPE! Chest press machine = No Problem! Squats, not even close, Pendulum Squats absolutely! So pretty excited like I said. I did tell him if we are doing failure we really needed to focus on joint safety with my old ass!

From what I’ve seen of his personal training, it’s mostly high stability movements that let you focus solely on the target muscle and hit it hard as ****.

The research on hypertrophy suggests that failure (or as close to it as possible) is the best way to build muscle. The idea I’ve seen in optimal training circles is long rest (to minimize fatigue and allow for maximal mechanical tension each set) and low-ish volume (4-8 sets per muscle per session) with relatively low reps per set (floor appears to be ~4 with no actual ceiling, just that higher rep sets taken to failure increase overall fatigue and make it harder to maximally recruit fibers).

I’d be interested in knowing how close Pat gets to that type of model in training and if his focus is on the effective reps model for bodybuilding.

 

[Dustin07]

The research on hypertrophy suggests that failure (or as close to it as possible) is the best way to build muscle. The idea I’ve seen in optimal training circles is long rest (to minimize fatigue and allow for maximal mechanical tension each set) and low-ish volume (4-8 sets per muscle per session) with relatively low reps per set (floor appears to be ~4 with no actual ceiling, just that higher rep sets taken to failure increase overall fatigue and make it harder to maximally recruit fibers).

I feel like I'm misunderstanding some really interesting stuff here. The idea that fatigue will make it harder to maximally recruit is understandable, but how are we combining the idea that going to failure assists in hypertrophy with the idea that low volume/low rep sets are playing hand in hand?

 

[MrKleen73]

From what I’ve seen of his personal training, it’s mostly high stability movements that let you focus solely on the target muscle and hit it hard as ****.

The research on hypertrophy suggests that failure (or as close to it as possible) is the best way to build muscle. The idea I’ve seen in optimal training circles is long rest (to minimize fatigue and allow for maximal mechanical tension each set) and low-ish volume (4-8 sets per muscle per session) with relatively low reps per set (floor appears to be ~4 with no actual ceiling, just that higher rep sets taken to failure increase overall fatigue and make it harder to maximally recruit fibers).

I’d be interested in knowing how close Pat gets to that type of model in training and if his focus is on the effective reps model for bodybuilding.

Yeah, that sounds about right, and yeah failure gets the most growth benefit but also the most systemic fatigue. So it definitely has to be managed appropriately. To be honest 4-8 work sets per a muscle group in 1 session is high volume to me. You kept mentioning your volume is lower but yesterday you did 6 work sets for chest, and that is typically what I do as well, and 8 highly effective sets is probably close to my limit. After 35+ years of lifting it doesn't take a lot for me to connect to the muscle, hone in and destroy it. I have such a good mind muscle connection, I can decimate a muscle without having to do tons of sets.

As you know from training with me the other day, I fail almost all of the sudden, and normally the bar doesn't slow down much before that happens. Then boom, off switch and the set is over. I will definitely also have to find out what his idea of failure is to know I am performing at the level he wants and not above or below it. Pat is such a fugging beast too. I haven't seen him train but his physique and the improvements he makes so fast is just unreal. Dude has some damn good genetics for this stuff!

 

[MrKleen73]

I feel like I'm misunderstanding some really interesting stuff here. The idea that fatigue will make it harder to maximally recruit is understandable, but how are we combining the idea that going to failure assists in hypertrophy with the idea that low volume/low rep sets are playing hand in hand?

I have to admit, I don't really know the benefit of a 3-4 rep set to failure other than building strength. However building strength now allows for higher volumes later. So in a block or macrocycle I can see why someone might train for strength to make later hypertrophy work better. Jim might be able to better elucidate what other benefits to hypertrophy such a low rep scheme offers.

Also any time there are a lot of intensifiers which training to failure is an intensifier all by itself the over all volume will suffer. However the stimulus from the failure on a couple of sets ends up matching the stimulus in a higher volume workout. Just a bit harder on the CNS if you do too much volume while going to failure. So the trick is finding the right balance there. When I did 3 full body workouts a week with 2 worksets to failure, but the 2nd work set also had 2 drop sets. So each week the body part would get a total of 6 sets. That would not be enough volume training at lower intensities but is more than enough with failure in the mix.

 

[jimbuick]

I feel like I'm misunderstanding some really interesting stuff here. The idea that fatigue will make it harder to maximally recruit is understandable, but how are we combining the idea that going to failure assists in hypertrophy with the idea that low volume/low rep sets are playing hand in hand?

Research suggests that the mechanism that leads to hypertrophy is something called mechanical tension and that muscles experience the most mechanical tension in the 4-5 reps closest to failure (when muscular contraction involuntarily slows).

And because the effective reps research strongly suggests in any given set there can only be 4-5 effective reps for hypertrophy, then there’s no reason to push much higher than, say, 8 reps in a set because doing more than that leads to calcium ion buildup which interferes with muscular contractions.

The total volume is because once you start to experience fatigue (both global and local), you have a harder time achieving effective reps because you can’t actually recruit the fibers maximally. That and you start to butt up against maximal recoverable volume thresholds.