Hyde’s Strength Odyssey

[Segansational]

Happy birthday to the little guy!!

 

[Hyde]

Thanks guys; had a great big party with all our family coming in from out of town yesterday for him. Really great getting everyone together.

How many grams of protein do you shoot for a day ?

Bodyweight in a deficit, 200+ on maintenance, in a surplus it doesn’t matter because needs because comically low when cals & carbs are elevated.

Although if I am eating in a smaller window for the day and at a deficit I generally can only practically consume so much protein. It’s not as useful to jam 230g of protein into only 5-6 hours for example over, say, 160.

Snatch grip is coincidentally Trump's favorite variation as well.


.......

Too political ?

lol I see what you did there!

 

[Hyde]

1/15/23
BW 231.0

6 min walk

Rope Cable Facepulls ss w/ Tri Ext
27.5 2x25/each

Strictpress
45 2x10
65,85x10
105 2-3x10

Incline Bench
45 2x10
65x10
95,115,135,155 2x10 each

DB Lateral Dropset
25x30 -> 15x20

Grabbed this one at the commercial gym last night after a big family party for my son, THEN another bday party for his daycare provider’s son. So it was late & I was hungry and spent, but it was great to begin loading strictpress & incline bench again after so long.

Overhead there is still some pretty bad compensatory body positioning at the bottom (left scap stays more tucked to make up for insufficient flexion in the rack position) but I don’t know how much better things will get and nothing hurts so

 

[Hyde]

1/16/23

Reverse Hyper
180 2x20

alt w/ Beltsquat
90 2x20

Pulldowns
40,80,120,160x10

Squat, Duffalo bar
55x5
+minibands
55,145,235,285x3
325 7x3 short rests
375x3
+belt
425x3

14” Boxsquat, Giant Cambered bar, beltless
85,175x5
265 3x5

Reverse Hyper
270x15
315 2x12
360x12

Lying Leg Raise w/ Curl-Up
2x20

Squats were feeling much better than last week & moving well. Giant Camber bar is really tough on boxsquats - it wants to swing and tip you over when you try to come forward off the box. Reverse Hyper is getting stronger and also feeling better!

 

[SkRaw85]

I knew DOMS would be bad; I wasn’t wrong!

My son’s 2nd birthday was Thursday, so training was moved to Friday night & no extended fasting this week - but I did do a sub-2k calorie day with 220+ grams of protein over 8-9 hours yesterday. Woke at 231.0lbs today.

Happy belated!

 

[SkRaw85]

Snatch grip is coincidentally Trump's favorite variation as well.


.......

Too political ?

It’s all locker room talk.

 

[Dustin07]

Thanks guys; had a great big party with all our family coming in from out of town yesterday for him. Really great getting everyone together.



Bodyweight in a deficit, 200+ on maintenance, in a surplus it doesn’t matter because needs because comically low when cals & carbs are elevated.

Although if I am eating in a smaller window for the day and at a deficit I generally can only practically consume so much protein. It’s not as useful to jam 230g of protein into only 5-6 hours for example over, say, 160.



lol I see what you did there!

I recall Layne Norton doing his doctorate thesis on protein synthesis and concluding that 4hr intervals coupled with Leucine was the most effective input at I think 40g on average. That's always been on my mind, but when you're trying to get 200g+ in via an 8hr window what are your thoughts on just pounding a 2 serving shaker of protein after dinner to get those last extra 40-60g in? lately I've been using powdered peanut butter + choco protein after dinner to get an extra serving in.

Of course in my opinion Layne is always very practical as well, I don't recall him condoning waking up every 4hrs for protein and I seem to recall him being opposed to fasted cardio, etc.

It’s all locker room talk.

Your locker room sounds better than mine. TBH I generally want to throw on dark glasses and go full Ray Charles in mine.

 

[MrKleen73]

Exercise increases protein synthesis for 24-48 hours, so you are still getting PS stimulated. On top of that you are still increasing nitrogen retention so while not timing protein for optimal PS you are still going to get what you need. I have definitely put on muscle while dropping body fat using the 16/8 feeding window, it allows 3 of the 4 waking opportunities for synthesis if you eat protein at fast breaking, protein at mid point, and protein at the end of the fast. So not missing out on too much there. If really stressed a 5-10g amino dose mid fast can be added, but I really don't see the need myself. I used to do it and didn't see any noticeable fall off on progress when I stopped.

However on my Build days I will often go to a 4-5 meal a day plan and start eating earlier, then fast longer the following day. Nothing wrong with doing this if you don't mind the circadian rhythm being a little off so that sometimes you get hungry due to ghrelin release a little earlier on the following fasting day. I have gotten to the point I know the ghrelin spike is only temporary and that intense hunger fades in 15-30 minutes. Something that doesn't bother me too much when it happens and doesn't happen to often with me since i am so used to fasting now.

 

[Hyde]

Exercise increases protein synthesis for 24-48 hours, so you are still getting PS stimulated. On top of that you are still increasing nitrogen retention so while not timing protein for optimal PS you are still going to get what you need. I have definitely put on muscle while dropping body fat using the 16/8 feeding window, it allows 3 of the 4 waking opportunities for synthesis if you eat protein at fast breaking, protein at mid point, and protein at the end of the fast. So not missing out on too much there. If really stressed a 5-10g amino dose mid fast can be added, but I really don't see the need myself. I used to do it and didn't see any noticeable fall off on progress when I stopped.

However on my Build days I will often go to a 4-5 meal a day plan and start eating earlier, then fast longer the following day. Nothing wrong with doing this if you don't mind the circadian rhythm being a little off so that sometimes you get hungry due to ghrelin release a little earlier on the following fasting day. I have gotten to the point I know the ghrelin spike is only temporary and that intense hunger fades in 15-30 minutes. Something that doesn't bother me too much when it happens and doesn't happen to often with me since i am so used to fasting now.

^This is my mindset.

I also don’t do IF every day. For instance, I do on Sunday because that workout is least important and also floats based on family things. Monday & Wednesday I am taking in nutrition by 5am and between hunger they generate and need for recovery from squat & bench, I usually will eat until 7pm at least. I also need to be ready for Thursday night, and I fast for that until probably 2-3pm that day.

Tuesdays I fast until a late dinner ideally to prep me for early Wednesday morning training.

Friday and Saturday are days I can generally potentially skip eating if I don’t have a good reason to. Or if I need the recovery, Friday I might eat low cal and 16/8 to get in protein to repair from Thursday night. Last 2 weeks training has been brutal.

 

[Dustin07]

It's been a blast tweaking the nutritional approach and experimenting with new things since you guys introduced me to IF from a strength perspective. After only a couple weeks of experimenting with IF, I now feel stronger going into a workout properly timed with IF than I do if I'm eating all day long the same amount of calories. the variation I have applied, which I think sorta matches what you guys are saying, is that I've been allowing 14/10 on days where I train midday (lunch hour type), and 16/8 on rest days.

If I can find more opportunities and really dial in the science my mind is still blown by the success of a single fasting day last friday. Yes, Saturday my bench was a tiny bit down, but I could see doing a full day fast Friday then hitting that same bench day on Sunday instead. Fasting is definitely leaning me out with incredibly minor strength / size loss and the eating is more focused, which I appreciate because I love a "food is fuel" approach 90% of the time.

 

[MrKleen73]

It doesn't hurt that fasting also opens up a lot of nutrient dense options that taste amazing and would either be so small a portion in a full day of eating or to hard to fit into the macros with a full day of eating. Makes the meals you do get a lot more enjoyable.

 

[Hyde]

1/18/23

Reverse Hyper
180 2x20

Band Pullaparts, Extensions, Dislocations

Lat Pulldown
100,140x12
160x8

Mid Grip Swissbar Bench
45x10
135x5
185,225x3
255,275,295,315,320x1
330 MISS

CG 2-Board Bench
vs 40 chain
225x10
255x8,7,5,5 short rests

Chin-ups
8,10,10,8

DB Bench
60x25
70x20

DB Rollback Extensions
30,40x20
50x14

Band Tri Extensions
4x25

ss w/ DB Rear Delt Flyes
30 3x12

320 isn’t a PR, but it’s definitely progress from 300ish a couple months back. It was also really strong so I was very confident in 330, but I didn’t have the strength to make the transition around the 2-board range where my triceps are beginning to really take over. Secondary bench exercise & chin-ups were both up from last week

 

[MrKleen73]

I need to try my swiss bar again, see if I can use it yet. With my right biceps tendon being partially subluxed that grip just punished the tendon, or did. I wish I had one that was at a 45 degree angle for all of the handles. I could crush that!!!

 

[Hyde]

I need to try my swiss bar again, see if I can use it yet. With my right biceps tendon being partially subluxed that grip just punished the tendon, or did. I wish I had one that was at a 45 degree angle for all of the handles. I could crush that!!!

They make those!

 

[SkRaw85]

I recall Layne Norton doing his doctorate thesis on protein synthesis and concluding that 4hr intervals coupled with Leucine was the most effective input at I think 40g on average. That's always been on my mind, but when you're trying to get 200g+ in via an 8hr window what are your thoughts on just pounding a 2 serving shaker of protein after dinner to get those last extra 40-60g in? lately I've been using powdered peanut butter + choco protein after dinner to get an extra serving in.

Of course in my opinion Layne is always very practical as well, I don't recall him condoning waking up every 4hrs for protein and I seem to recall him being opposed to fasted cardio, etc.


Your locker room sounds better than mine. TBH I generally want to throw on dark glasses and go full Ray Charles in mine.

Lmfao!

 

[SkRaw85]

1/18/23

Reverse Hyper
180 2x20

Band Pullaparts, Extensions, Dislocations

Lat Pulldown
100,140x12
160x8

Mid Grip Swissbar Bench
45x10
135x5
185,225x3
255,275,295,315,320x1
330 MISS

CG 2-Board Bench
vs 40 chain
225x10
255x8,7,5,5 short rests

Chin-ups
8,10,10,8

DB Bench
60x25
70x20

DB Rollback Extensions
30,40x20
50x14

Band Tri Extensions
4x25

ss w/ DB Rear Delt Flyes
30 3x12

320 isn’t a PR, but it’s definitely progress from 300ish a couple months back. It was also really strong so I was very confident in 330, but I didn’t have the strength to make the transition around the 2-board range where my triceps are beginning to really take over. Secondary bench exercise & chin-ups were both up from last week

I don’t know about you but a few weeks of weighted dips (sent real deep) builds my triceps strength faster than other accessory exercises. When my tris are weak those are my go-to to build fast.

 

[MrKleen73]

They make those!

Yeah, I wish I knew I would have this problem when I ordered this bar. I thought it would address some of the shoulder issue but it caused more pain. Been keeping it around in hopes I can use it but might be time to sell and repurpose the money on one with all diagonal handles.

 

[SkRaw85]

Yeah, I wish I knew I would have this problem when I ordered this bar. I thought it would address some of the shoulder issue but it caused more pain. Been keeping it around in hopes I can use it but might be time to sell and repurpose the money on one with all diagonal handles.

A Kaddilac bar is also another viable option.

 

[MrKleen73]

A Kaddilac bar is also another viable option.

This would be ideal, just a lot of cash to drop, but I am sure it is worth it. HMMMMM 50th birthday February 1, possible gift request. Was also contemplating getting a big outdoor grill similar to the Blackstone.

 

[Hyde]

I don’t know about you but a few weeks of weighted dips (sent real deep) builds my triceps strength faster than other accessory exercises. When my tris are weak those are my go-to to build fast.

Last week when I missed the 330 floor press and this week on the 330 Swissbar bench, it’s the same spot - right after the momentum of the initial launch has ended and I’m transitioning from delts/pecs onto triceps, around that 2-board range under halfway up.

Do you think that may help that zone, and if so what kind of sets x reps have you found useful? Do you do that as your primary accessory, or as a third movement?

When I do dips deep, I mainly feel a big shift onto my pecs and delts.

 

[Rocket3015]

When I do dips deep, I mainly feel a big shift onto my pecs and delts.

The less you lean forward the better effect they should have on your tri's

 

[SkRaw85]

This would be ideal, just a lot of cash to drop, but I am sure it is worth it. HMMMMM 50th birthday February 1, possible gift request. Was also contemplating getting a big outdoor grill similar to the Blackstone.

Compromise: get a blemished Kaddilac AND a black stone

 

[SkRaw85]

Last week when I missed the 330 floor press and this week on the 330 Swissbar bench, it’s the same spot - right after the momentum of the initial launch has ended and I’m transitioning from delts/pecs onto triceps, around that 2-board range under halfway up.

Do you think that may help that zone, and if so what kind of sets x reps have you found useful? Do you do that as your primary accessory, or as a third movement?

When I do dips deep, I mainly feel a big shift onto my pecs and delts.

That’s right around the same sticky point I was feeling weak in about a month ago. I used them as a primary accessory, 4-5 working sets (started at 4, worked up to 5), 10 rep range, 10th rep should be a grind. Progressively add load over the weeks within same rep/set range.

Not like hyperextending deep but right to that point where front delts and pecs start taking over. I’ll hover it there for a half second before pumping back up.

 

[MrKleen73]

That’s right around the same sticky point I was feeling weak in about a month ago. I used them as a primary accessory, 4-5 working sets (started at 4, worked up to 5), 10 rep range, 10th rep should be a grind. Progressively add load over the weeks within same rep/set range.

Not like hyperextending deep but right to that point where front delts and pecs start taking over. I’ll hover it there for a half second before pumping back up.

Dips are definitely my favorite triceps movement. I have never really knowingly used them to break through a plateau but it wouldn't be surprising that they would be effective for that. Makes you strong when your elbows are behind the back and helps incorporate everything used in bench.

 

[Hyde]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! I think that is definitely something worth trying. Might implement them as a tertiary exercise next week and depending on that try them loaded as my secondary movement the following.

They tend to bother me going deep, but since that isn’t the goal it could be a great option. My weakness isn’t really the delts & pecs - it’s right at the tricep transition, so this may be perfect.

 

[SkRaw85]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! I think that is definitely something worth trying. Might implement them as a tertiary exercise next week and depending on that try them loaded as my secondary movement the following.

They tend to bother me going deep, but since that isn’t the goal it could be a great option. My weakness isn’t really the delts & pecs - it’s right at the tricep transition, so this may be perfect.

Honestly, the biggest reason for upgrading my rack was that I didn’t have a dip bar option and I need them to thrive.

 

[MrKleen73]

Honestly, the biggest reason for upgrading my rack was that I didn’t have a dip bar option and I need them to thrive.

I am thinking of rearranging the garage gym so I have easier access to the dip on there. Always hard to figure out where to put things when you have a set up like I do. Not a lot of free space in there and that is using both sides of the garage.

 

[gphagan1]

That’s right around the same sticky point I was feeling weak in about a month ago. I used them as a primary accessory, 4-5 working sets (started at 4, worked up to 5), 10 rep range, 10th rep should be a grind. Progressively add load over the weeks within same rep/set range.

Not like hyperextending deep but right to that point where front delts and pecs start taking over. I’ll hover it there for a half second before pumping back up.

I love dips for triceps and lower pecs….. not only are they great for strength and helping in all pressing exercises, they really do a good job incorporating all the stabilizers.

 

[SkRaw85]

I am thinking of rearranging the garage gym so I have easier access to the dip on there. Always hard to figure out where to put things when you have a set up like I do. Not a lot of free space in there and that is using both sides of the garage.

Same. I need to go do some rearranging. Tomorrow I’m off. Thanks for reminding me lol

 

[SkRaw85]

I love dips for triceps and lower pecs….. not only are they great for strength and helping in all pressing exercises, they really do a good job incorporating all the stabilizers.

I swear it packs on slabs of meat to the triceps and beefs up the shoulder girdle quick!

 

[MrKleen73]

Same. I need to go do some rearranging. Tomorrow I’m off. Thanks for reminding me lol

Yeah, and I have to figure out a spot for my new Titan Wall mounted pulley system too. I have a shed I need to get set up behind the garage to move some other things into so I have more room but I am sure I can figure this out for now.

 

[SkRaw85]

Yeah, and I have to figure out a spot for my new Titan Wall mounted pulley system too. I have a shed I need to get set up behind the garage to move some other things into so I have more room but I am sure I can figure this out for now.

Where there is a will there is a way.

 

[Hyde]

If you guys just had a Titan reverse Hyper, you could do your dips on the handle arms and it would always be set up

But you will also still have to move your son’s box of sidewalk chalk, sand pails, and whatever misc tools & such you normally store in that location

 

[RegisterJr]

Yeah, and I have to figure out a spot for my new Titan Wall mounted pulley system too. I have a shed I need to get set up behind the garage to move some other things into so I have more room but I am sure I can figure this out for now.

I forgot you ordered one. I use mine daily and really need another one.

 

[MrKleen73]

I forgot you ordered one. I use mine daily and really need another one.

I want a 2nd one also so I can use them as a cable crossover style machine.

 

[Hyde]

1/19/23
BW 234.4

Reverse Hyper
180 2x20

KB Suitcase Carry
Bird Dogs
Partial Pistol Squat
Single Leg Deadlift

Conventional, powerbar
135x5,2
245x3,1
335,385x3
+belt
425x2
440 3x2
+straps
440x8

Snatchgrip 3” Blockpulls, beltless
335 3x10

BB Rows
245 2x14

SSB GM, beltless
65x12
155 3x15

One-Arm DB Row
105x25,15

GHR
2x15

Doing the work - getting strong now!

 

[gphagan1]

1/19/23
BW 234.4

Reverse Hyper
180 2x20

KB Suitcase Carry
Bird Dogs
Partial Pistol Squat
Single Leg Deadlift

Conventional, powerbar
135x5,2
245x3,1
335,385x3
+belt
425x2
440 3x2
+straps
440x8

Snatchgrip 3” Blockpulls, beltless
335 3x10

BB Rows
245 2x14

SSB GM, beltless
65x12
155 3x15

One-Arm DB Row
105x25,15

GHR
2x15

Doing the work - getting strong now!

Man, 440x8 on the last set of conventional deadlifts….you may end up eventually lifting more at 230 lbs than you did at 260 lbs.

 

[SkRaw85]

Man, 440x8 on the last set of conventional deadlifts….you may end up eventually lifting more at 230 lbs than you did at 260 lbs.

Seriously

 

[Rocket3015]

Strong and Pretty !!

 

[MrKleen73]

Great session, 440x8 is some nice work!!!

 

[Dustin07]

What led you to that 8 rep top set? intentional AMRAP or?
One of my gym locations has weights next to the dip bar so I prefer weighted dips over anything machine, personally. way better incorporation of the stabilizers as already mentioned. although lately for some reason I feel like db kickbacks have been hitting the triceps in a beefier way than the dips.

 

[Hyde]

Man, 440x8 on the last set of conventional deadlifts….you may end up eventually lifting more at 230 lbs than you did at 260 lbs.

I pulled 630 in the gym the last time I was 265, but my best comp pull was 628 at 220 (weighing ~230). I definitely think this bodyfat is a very productive leverage for me to train deadlift.

What led you to that 8 rep top set? intentional AMRAP or?

Everything in your training should always have a purpose & intent. You won’t always make the right decisions, and you should adjust the plan in real time based on what you are feeling, but you should have a specific goal driving your plan.

This week’s deadlift session was about increased repetition focus, instead of maximal strength or technical refinement & fatigue reduction like previous weeks. But we’re still powerlifting here - practice matters. Back to what we talked about in the Slingshot thread, 70-80% is commonly used because it’s heavy enough to transfer to maximal lifting for many but light enough you can think through it AND rack up sufficient volume for a hypertrophy stimulus.

I’ve had a lot of success personally with Swede’s 5th Set method of 4 doubles or triples ranging from 70-80% followed by an AMRAP. Practicing with the weight before the top set actually helps you lift more reps on the AMRAP - the fatigue from the low reps doesn’t cost as much as the neurological boost yields. So you end up with similar volume as a 3x5, but you get more chances to practice AND better practice, with a similar hypertrophy outcome.

 

[Hyde]

228.4lbs today (-1.5lbs from last week)

Fasted all day yesterday, where morning weight was 232.6. No idea if I will break my fast or not tonight, but definitely eating big tomorrow (family stuff all day) for heavy squats on Monday.

Bumped GH to 1.5iu this week, and been doing more morning shots than evening due to food timing. Surprised to see any weightloss this week, so this could be a factor. Diet has also continued to be more consistent/targeted. Also shifted Testosterone to 240 & Mast down to 60 this week to raise estrogen. I have backed off carnitine entirely, besides whatever trace is combined with choline whenever I use it.

 

[Hyde]

Posting this especially for you @Dustin07 - I know you like Layne and I think you will like his final thoughts on intermittent fasting.

At first I thought I disagreed with his thoughts on LDL being an independent risk factor for heart disease, but I realized that I do agree - my beef is with the use of statins to lower LDL based on recent evidence. They cause a lot more metabolic harm that promotes diabetes (cardiovascular disease) while the lowering of LDL barely impacts absolute mortality (~1% absolute risk for a very good chance to get diabetes).

 

[SkRaw85]

228.4lbs today (-1.5lbs from last week)

Fasted all day yesterday, where morning weight was 232.6. No idea if I will break my fast or not tonight, but definitely eating big tomorrow (family stuff all day) for heavy squats on Monday.

Bumped GH to 1.5iu this week, and been doing more morning shots than evening due to food timing. Surprised to see any weightloss this week, so this could be a factor. Diet has also continued to be more consistent/targeted. Also shifted Testosterone to 240 & Mast down to 60 this week to raise estrogen. I have backed off carnitine entirely, besides whatever trace is combined with choline whenever I use it.

Pharma GH pens or generic?

 

[khall1974]

228.4lbs today (-1.5lbs from last week)

Fasted all day yesterday, where morning weight was 232.6. No idea if I will break my fast or not tonight, but definitely eating big tomorrow (family stuff all day) for heavy squats on Monday.

Bumped GH to 1.5iu this week, and been doing more morning shots than evening due to food timing. Surprised to see any weightloss this week, so this could be a factor. Diet has also continued to be more consistent/targeted. Also shifted Testosterone to 240 & Mast down to 60 this week to raise estrogen. I have backed off carnitine entirely, besides whatever trace is combined with choline whenever I use it.

What made you back off the l carnitine??

 

[Hyde]

Pharma GH pens or generic?

Generic. Same as steroids, if it is what it says it is at the same dose, it will work the same, pharm or ugl.

What made you back off the l carnitine??

Last blood panel my TSH was higher than usual; instead of 2.6-2.9 it was 3.5. Carnitine can interfere with the thyroid some (although it’s also been shown to bring relief for hypothyroidism), so since I’m also using HGH currently AND in an overall caloric deficit (both of which can downregulate thyroid output some) it seemed sensible to back off for the moment unless I was going to supplement.

 

[SkRaw85]

Generic. Same as steroids, if it is what it says it is at the same dose, it will work the same, pharm or ugl.



Last blood panel my TSH was higher than usual; instead of 2.6-2.9 it was 3.5. Carnitine can interfere with the thyroid some (although it’s also been shown to bring relief for hypothyroidism), so since I’m also using HGH currently AND in an overall caloric deficit (both of which can downregulate thyroid output some) it seemed sensible to back off for the moment unless I was going to supplement.

Nice. Only tried a couple of humatrope pens before. Too damn pricey to be viable for me.

 

[Hyde]

Nice. Only tried a couple of humatrope pens before. Too damn pricey to be viable for me.

It was 200iu (20x10iu vials) for $300 shipped, plus some BAC water, so 2iu 5 days per week is $15 weekly - basically the price of ribeye, and less than I spend on salmon, so I decided that was a fair cost if it does end up helping recovery.

 

[Hyde]

Signed up for a USPA meet mid March - 220lb Open Raw class.

I realized I’ve been cruising for 17 weeks, it’s in line with my current diet goals & training, and it’s going to put that extra fire under both.

8 weeks out tomorrow