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Clomid during cycle

BBiceps said:
So... I’m ****ed up =( Testosterone is 43 (low as ****), cholesterol 236 (high) and liver was slightly high... Estrogen was 20 so that’s pretty normal I guess.

I have been feeling bloated and “lose” the last week but I still been fairly strong, I done some PR’s after the blood test, weird...

I didn’t see my regular Dr today and the bitch I saw wanted to put me on HCG, I said no but she tried to argue with me that studies shows that it raise testosterone, I still said no. I going to look for another Dr.

The funny part is that I feel good, except from the bloat, I feel strong and workouts have been going good, libido is good.

Idk, maybe my stuff wasn’t as good as it was supposed to be or Clomid on cycle is not working...

Any advice of what I should do is welcome.
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This is disappointing to read, especially since I was planning on running a cycle of turinabol plus toremifene for 8 weeks starting early next month. Now I'm wondering if I would possibly be better off injecting 250 iu of HCG 1-2x/wk to maintain test levels? Still not sure which route would be best to take regarding torem vs. HCG as an on-cycle ancillary...
 
are there any reliable sources to find androxyl? It still hasnt even hit the market and it might not ever make it correct?
 
RickyBlobby said:
Where did you source your clomid. Hard to believe 25 mg a day could not keep t levels normal
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A SERM didn’t keep my T normal at all; it SLOWED THE DECLINE of LH to a very helpful degree when it came to PCT recovery.

That’s a very important distinction and why I asked about his LH levels - I expected his total test to be poor.
 
Hyde said:
A SERM didn’t keep my T normal at all; it SLOWED THE DECLINE of LH to a very helpful degree when it came to PCT recovery.

That’s a very important distinction and why I asked about his LH levels - I expected his total test to be poor.
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I believe the lab tests of the guy who recently ran a cycle of Tbol + Clomid for 8 wks (Reddit thread linked to above) indicated basically the phenomenon you described -- his test levels were pretty low (~100), but his LH and FSH had held somewhat steady.

Btw, sort of random but relevant question -- for an 8-wk oral-only cycle of TBol at 50-60 mg/day (possibly as high as 80 mg/day during last two weeks), which do you think is the better option for ancillary support between taking a daily SERM dose (in this case, toremifene at 60 my/day) vs. injecting HCG at 250 mcg 1-2x/wk? Would HCG make more sense considering that testosterone levels would be maintained?
 
SpicedCider said:
I believe the lab tests of the guy who recently ran a cycle of Tbol + Clomid for 8 wks (Reddit thread linked to above) indicated basically the phenomenon you described -- his test levels were pretty low (~100), but his LH and FSH had held somewhat steady.

Btw, sort of random but relevant question -- for an 8-wk oral-only cycle of TBol at 50-60 mg/day (possibly as high as 80 mg/day during last two weeks), which do you think is the better option for ancillary support between taking a daily SERM dose (in this case, toremifene at 60 my/day) vs. injecting HCG at 250 mcg 1-2x/wk? Would HCG make more sense considering that testosterone levels would be maintained?
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HCG is suppressive. It will help you feel better possibly on cycle or to be used at the end of cycle to sensitize Leydig cells in preparation for SERM administration, or to keep nut size up some on cycle/TRT, but it will NOT maintain natural test levels on a cycle.

HCG on that oral only cycle may function as some kind of test base if you will, especially since you wouldn’t otherwise have estrogen on that dry Tbol only cycle, but if you want to try to maintain LH you need to stick with the SERM.
 
BBiceps said:
So... I’m ****ed up =( Testosterone is 43 (low as ****), cholesterol 236 (high) and liver was slightly high... Estrogen was 20 so that’s pretty normal I guess.

I have been feeling bloated and “lose” the last week but I still been fairly strong, I done some PR’s after the blood test, weird...

I didn’t see my regular Dr today and the bitch I saw wanted to put me on HCG, I said no but she tried to argue with me that studies shows that it raise testosterone, I still said no. I going to look for another Dr.

The funny part is that I feel good, except from the bloat, I feel strong and workouts have been going good, libido is good.

Idk, maybe my stuff wasn’t as good as it was supposed to be or Clomid on cycle is not working...

Any advice of what I should do is welcome.
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You're not ****ed up.. you don't need HCG. Take a deep breath. You're not telling us much. It's all relative. 90% of all anabolics will raise your cholesterol levels. They will fall back in line once you stop.. what are your LH, FSH levels? Having natural test of 700 and dropping to 400 while on cycle with a SERM is great, so is having a natural test level of 400 and dropping to 25-100 but maintaining you're LH, FSH levels. Both will allow you to recover much faster which is the whole point of this thread. Ask your Dr. to provide you with your LH, FSH levels, I'm kind of surprised you didn't request them. These numbers will determine how long you need to PCT.
 
BBiceps said:
So... I’m ****ed up =( Testosterone is 43 (low as ****), cholesterol 236 (high) and liver was slightly high... Estrogen was 20 so that’s pretty normal I guess.

I have been feeling bloated and “lose” the last week but I still been fairly strong, I done some PR’s after the blood test, weird...

I didn’t see my regular Dr today and the bitch I saw wanted to put me on HCG, I said no but she tried to argue with me that studies shows that it raise testosterone, I still said no. I going to look for another Dr.

The funny part is that I feel good, except from the bloat, I feel strong and workouts have been going good, libido is good.

Idk, maybe my stuff wasn’t as good as it was supposed to be or Clomid on cycle is not working...

Any advice of what I should do is welcome.
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I’d be thrilled with those labs. Absolutely thrilled. And would continue on with the cycle completely care free.
 
Hyde said:
HCG is suppressive. It will help you feel better possibly on cycle or to be used at the end of cycle to sensitize Leydig cells in preparation for SERM administration, or to keep nut size up some on cycle/TRT, but it will NOT maintain natural test levels on a cycle.

HCG on that oral only cycle may function as some kind of test base if you will, especially since you wouldn’t otherwise have estrogen on that dry Tbol only cycle, but if you want to try to maintain LH you need to stick with the SERM.
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Appreciate the info. Would there be any point to taking both HCG and the SERM during the cycle (the SERM to maintain LH/FSH, and the HCG to combat lethargy)?
 
Hiddengains said:
You're not ****ed up.. you don't need HCG. Take a deep breath. You're not telling us much. It's all relative. 90% of all anabolics will raise your cholesterol levels. They will fall back in line once you stop.. what are your LH, FSH levels? Having natural test of 700 and dropping to 400 while on cycle with a SERM is great, so is having a natural test level of 400 and dropping to 25-100 but maintaining you're LH, FSH levels. Both will allow you to recover much faster which is the whole point of this thread. Ask your Dr. to provide you with your LH, FSH levels, I'm kind of surprised you didn't request them. These numbers will determine how long you need to PCT.
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Yeah I don’t want HCG either, my Dr used to be great but it changed and now I will change Dr, I have an appointment with a new one tomorrow, he do hormone therapy and from it looks like he even uses peptides, hopefully he’s more helpful.

I asked for a full blood panel so I’m surprised he didn’t include LH/FSH but **** him, I won’t go to him anymore.

I stopped Anavar 3 weeks ago and I still take Clomid, I “feel” good, libido is good and my “tightness” is coming back so I’m not so worried&depressed anymore.

Thanks for the support.
 
SpicedCider said:
Appreciate the info. Would there be any point to taking both HCG and the SERM during the cycle (the SERM to maintain LH/FSH, and the HCG to combat lethargy)?
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No. Stick with the SERM. You will recover faster that way. If worried about lethargy try a transdermal DHEA/Pregnenolone preparation, or my favorite td - Muscle Gelz Androhard (estered Androsterone & EpiAndro).

If you were going to bother pinning HCG a several times a week to handle lethargy why not just pin test at that point? You could do an ml of test prop in a little Slin pin eod virtually as easy and get way better gains for cheaper and feel better.
 
So I'm about 1 week into 20mg Msten and 25mg Clomid ED. I feel ok, but would adding in something like Epiandro for weeks 3-6 be alright? I know the Clomid is supposed to help prevent getting shut down and make recovery faster in PCT, but I'm kind of worried about lethargy kicking in.
 
thaifoon90 said:
So I'm about 1 week into 20mg Msten and 25mg Clomid ED. I feel ok, but would adding in something like Epiandro for weeks 3-6 be alright? I know the Clomid is supposed to help prevent getting shut down and make recovery faster in PCT, but I'm kind of worried about lethargy kicking in.
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I would recommend the epiandro. 2-3 caps of Vicious Labs Dark Carnival divides up over the day or 3-4 pumps of Muscle Gelz Androhard rubbed on twice a day.

Most caps you need to take a million, but VL actually has properly dosed caps.
 
Hyde said:
I would recommend the epiandro. 2-3 caps of Vicious Labs Dark Carnival divides up over the day or 3-4 pumps of Muscle Gelz Androhard rubbed on twice a day.

Most caps you need to take a million, but VL actually has properly dosed caps.
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Sounds good. I'm using VL Msten as well, so they probably will go well together. Just ordered some Dark Carnival!
 
Guys, if high LH doesn't make the testies produce test when on cycle; then HCG wont do anything for you, as HCG is/mimics LH.

BBiceps I think the only way your E could have been in range with T being suppressed is that either a) your var had something else added in it that arometises or b) you weren't totally suppressed right up until you did bloods. Estradiol has a serum half life of 3 days, it takes some time for it to fall. So imo it's one of the two options. You can not have normal E2 if you don't have an aromatising compound in your blood, period :)

In what week of the cycle did you do bloods? Was it right before PCT or something like that?

OT: BTW, where is the notification icon in the user panel at the right top of the page? The planet shaped icon... I don't have it anymore... ??
 
Jinsun said:
Guys, if high LH doesn't make the testies produce test when on cycle; then HCG wont do anything for you, as HCG is/mimics LH.

BBiceps I think the only way your E could have been in range with T being suppressed is that either a) your var had something else added in it that arometises or b) you weren't totally suppressed right up until you did bloods. Estradiol has a serum half life of 3 days, it takes some time for it to fall. So imo it's one of the two options. You can not have normal E2 if you don't have an aromatising compound in your blood, period :)

In what week of the cycle did you do bloods? Was it right before PCT or something like that?

OT: BTW, where is the notification icon in the user panel at the right top of the page? The planet shaped icon... I don't have it anymore... ??
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Isn't the point of HCG on cycle to have the testies ready to produce LH from day one of pct instead of waiting for them to ramp back up. I don't think anyone thinks it keeps your Test at normal ranges.
 
Jinsun said:
Guys, if high LH doesn't make the testies produce test when on cycle; then HCG wont do anything for you, as HCG is/mimics LH.

BBiceps I think the only way your E could have been in range with T being suppressed is that either a) your var had something else added in it that arometises or b) you weren't totally suppressed right up until you did bloods. Estradiol has a serum half life of 3 days, it takes some time for it to fall. So imo it's one of the two options. You can not have normal E2 if you don't have an aromatising compound in your blood, period :)

In what week of the cycle did you do bloods? Was it right before PCT or something like that?

OT: BTW, where is the notification icon in the user panel at the right top of the page? The planet shaped icon... I don't have it anymore... ??
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I drew the blood after 7 weeks of Var (40-100mg) and Clomid (25mg). I stopped the Var after but continued the Clomid.

The funny part is that I have no signs of low T, I was looking “soft” a week ago but since I bumped up my Clomid to 50mg ed I starting to look tight again. Still strong and gaining strength, sex drive is normal, energy levels normal, idk, it’s weird...

What do you think I should do?
 
contact13 said:
Isn't the point of HCG on cycle to have the testies ready to produce LH from day one of pct instead of waiting for them to ramp back up. I don't think anyone thinks it keeps your Test at normal ranges.
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Testies don't produce LH they respond to it. LH is produced upstairs :)

BBiceps said:
I drew the blood after 7 weeks of Var (40-100mg) and Clomid (25mg). I stopped the Var after but continued the Clomid.

The funny part is that I have no signs of low T, I was looking “soft” a week ago but since I bumped up my Clomid to 50mg ed I starting to look tight again. Still strong and gaining strength, sex drive is normal, energy levels normal, idk, it’s weird...

What do you think I should do?
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I also don't get to soft or weak in pct. Imo this is not a big deal. It's all just your body, I mean there is no magic happening here haha And probably you started producing T right after you stopped taking var. Var has a short half life of app. 8 hours, so in a day or two I presume, bc you had elevated LH and FSH, you started producing T right away. You know recovery from 1 compound only - oral - with a serm on cycle is most probably a lot easier then on a normal, stronger cycle. For instance, when I tok Ostarine I got shuttdown but my LH stayed normal. So I did an experiment and didn't take a serm for the first week of the PCT and went and did bloods 7 days after last dose of Ostarine @25mg. My TT was 50% back to normal. I have different measuring unit's then your labs but to translate it was at app. 400 - 500. Ostarine has a half life of 24h, which is 3x that of var. So I started bouncing back probably later in pct then you aaand my LH was only at normal levels, not elevated like yours bc of the serm. I know sarms are not aas, they are a bit more advanced when it comes to shuttdown, but still, I think you can take my example as an valid analouge to yours experience...
 
I'm not sure how much it helps but over my last 20 years of cycling I have used clomid many times to plump up the boys.
 
Hyde said:
No. Stick with the SERM. You will recover faster that way. If worried about lethargy try a transdermal DHEA/Pregnenolone preparation, or my favorite td - Muscle Gelz Androhard (estered Androsterone & EpiAndro).

If you were going to bother pinning HCG a several times a week to handle lethargy why not just pin test at that point? You could do an ml of test prop in a little Slin pin eod virtually as easy and get way better gains for cheaper and feel better.
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I'm with Hyde on this one. If you can source legit orals and HCG, I would imagine you can source some Test too. Don't be lazy, scared to pin, worried about recovery, or whatever it is. One you decide to walk this path and stray from the natural path at least go all in and do it right. So find some test and run it anywhere between 300-500/week kick start with your oral and then PCT. If done right, awesome keepable gains, proper recovery after cycle, and maintaining health through the cycle.
 
Tbl16 said:
I'm with Hyde on this one. If you can source legit orals and HCG, I would imagine you can source some Test too. Don't be lazy, scared to pin, worried about recovery, or whatever it is. One you decide to walk this path and stray from the natural path at least go all in and do it right. So find some test and run it anywhere between 300-500/week kick start with your oral and then PCT. If done right, awesome keepable gains, proper recovery after cycle, and maintaining health through the cycle.
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At this point, I'm starting to consider running test along with my cycle, although part of me is curious to see what I can get out of a "standalone" Tbol + Torem cycle and then run another Tbol cycle in the spring, but with test added during the spring cycle. Do you think it could actually be a bad thing to run HCG alongside TBol and Torem? I've heard that HCG can lead to increased estrogen production -- is that the main issue?
 
The fact that your estrogen was normal is baffling
 
SpicedCider said:
At this point, I'm starting to consider running test along with my cycle, although part of me is curious to see what I can get out of a "standalone" Tbol + Torem cycle and then run another Tbol cycle in the spring, but with test added during the spring cycle. Do you think it could actually be a bad thing to run HCG alongside TBol and Torem? I've heard that HCG can lead to increased estrogen production -- is that the main issue?
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I do, which is why I have advised against it THREE times now - HCG is suppressive! It belongs in a TRT protocol to keep the boys full or at end of a cycle to prepare nuts to accept LH when PCT begins.

It is not normally mixed with a SERM, which could pose its own risks I believe.
 
Kinda tried this on andros. Aromasin 25mg eod and clomid 25mg eod. Sex drive is intact on the 2 week mark. Normally id be crashing.
 
Anecdotal experience, but I'm entering week 4 on Msten at 20mg/day and I've been taking clomid 25mg/day the entire time. I feel fine. Hopefully I stay this way till the end of week 6! No test base except epiandro at 900mg/day.
 
thaifoon90 said:
Anecdotal experience, but I'm entering week 4 on Msten at 20mg/day and I've been taking clomid 25mg/day the entire time. I feel fine. Hopefully I stay this way till the end of week 6! No test base except epiandro at 900mg/day.
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Epiandro at 900 is a good test base... just sayin’. Evenly spaced, it will make a noticeable difference in energy & libido over nothing.
 
Hyde said:
Epiandro at 900 is a good test base... just sayin’. Evenly spaced, it will make a noticeable difference in energy & libido over nothing.
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True. I began Epiandro at week 3 though, nothing for the first 2 weeks. But I guess this is when lethargy is supposed to kick in so I'm glad I have it. I've been experimenting with 2 caps preworkout, 1 later; 3 caps preworkout; and 3 caps spaced evenly throughout the day, and I think I like the 2 preworkout best.
 
BBiceps said:
I wish it was a typo...
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I just read the thread and realized you have been on TRT before? How long were on TRT for; this could be the cause why your tests are so low because of testicular atrophy while your LH and FSH is in range; meaning the clomid is really only providing support for your pituitary; hence primary shutdown/suppression. Reason why other users who use Torem, Anavar, Primo etc. and didnt get as bad as of a shutdown cause of constantly coming on and off; while TRT your are constantly on(and if not running HCG) your testicles just get constant atrophy to the point where its very hard for it to start producing test.

Primary = balls don't work as well as they should
(normal to high LH/FSH, low test)
 
50Magnum said:
I just read the thread and realized you have been on TRT before? How long were on TRT for; this could be the cause why your tests are so low because of testicular atrophy while your LH and FSH is in range; meaning the clomid is really only providing support for your pituitary; hence primary shutdown/suppression. Reason why other users who use Torem, Anavar, Primo etc. and didnt get as bad as of a shutdown cause of constantly coming on and off; while TRT your are constantly on(and if not running HCG) your testicles just get constant atrophy to the point where its very hard for it to start producing test.

Primary = balls don't work as well as they should
(normal to high LH/FSH, low test)
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I was on TRT for about 3 years, got off because we wanted another kid (my sperm count was “too low too measure” on). Got off and recovered well and got my wife pregnant. Been off now for 3 years, my test levels been around mid 400’s to low 500’s. Been doing Clomid here there and got my levels as high as 900’s doing that.

Did Anavar&Clomid for 7 weeks, did bloods the last week.

Here’s the weird part, not a single time during the Var cycle or after (been off Var for 6 weeks and Clomid 1 week) have I felt any signs of low test?! No loss in strength or energy and my libido is as strong as ever, I might have lost a few pounds but that’s expected. If hadn’t got the bloods I would of thought it was a success, ****ing weird.

I’m on a work trip now and when I get back I’m planning on doing bloods again.

Have anyone ever heard about anything like this before?
 
Yes, very strange. If I remember correctly your total T was way below normal but your estrogen war right in the middle of the normal range at the very end of your cycle. Is that correct?
 
RickyBlobby said:
Yes, very strange. If I remember correctly your total T was way below normal but your estrogen war right in the middle of the normal range at the very end of your cycle. Is that correct?
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Yes, test was 43 and Estro 20 if remember correctly.

On paper that would make me feel and perform like **** but I perform just like I did before.
 
So no plummet in energy and wellbeing during the first couple weeks of PCT. Sounds like a success to me. I always hated those first coupla weeks.
 
BBiceps said:
I was on TRT for about 3 years, got off because we wanted another kid (my sperm count was “too low too measure” on). Got off and recovered well and got my wife pregnant. Been off now for 3 years, my test levels been around mid 400’s to low 500’s. Been doing Clomid here there and got my levels as high as 900’s doing that.

Did Anavar&Clomid for 7 weeks, did bloods the last week.

Here’s the weird part, not a single time during the Var cycle or after (been off Var for 6 weeks and Clomid 1 week) have I felt any signs of low test?! No loss in strength or energy and my libido is as strong as ever, I might have lost a few pounds but that’s expected. If hadn’t got the bloods I would of thought it was a success, ****ing weird.

I’m on a work trip now and when I get back I’m planning on doing bloods again.

Have anyone ever heard about anything like this before?
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hmmm I see so yeah I dk man. Well one thing you know is that you didn't get full shutdown doing this since your lh and fsh were in normal range but test just down like a mofo. I asked the dude on the reddit thread about his t bol cycle with clomid; basically he felt normal the whole time. The thing is why not just use HCG instead of clomid doing this. Shutdown is going to happen either way; whether its pitutary or your balls plus the half life wont be lingering around once you come off and then continue pct resulting in faster recovery. Testicle atrophy takes longer to recover than the pituitary so that is why I feel like HCG is best used because your balls will keep functioning even though the pituitary is shutdown. Some guy on here did this with superdrol and recovery for him went really well.
 
BBiceps said:
Yes, test was 43 and Estro 20 if remember correctly.

On paper that would make me feel and perform like **** but I perform just like I did before.
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Its cause the clomid kept your pituitary in check, but you still got testicular atrophy and I'm not talking size I mean function. I posted above before you got primary shutdown meaning your pitutary was running fine(LH and FSH) but your balls still got atrophied hence the low test.
 
50Magnum said:
Its cause the clomid kept your pituitary in check, but you still got testicular atrophy and I'm not talking size I mean function. I posted above before you got primary shutdown meaning your pitutary was running fine(LH and FSH) but your balls still got atrophied hence the low test.
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So what does this mean?

Gonna be interesting with my next blood work but going on “feel”, I feel great.
 
BBiceps said:
So what does this mean?

Gonna be interesting with my next blood work but going on “feel”, I feel great.
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It means you weren't fully shut down because your LH and FSH was fully producing. For example my LH and FSH while running a sarm was average(actually LH doubled) also my testosterone dropped 80 points which means even though I did get slight suppression my overall hpta wasn't shutdown rather suppressed. You did get shutdown based on your test but not fully. For example this guy here I posted this already on another thread he ran T Bol by itself 40 mg for 8 weeks; 4 weeks in he got his blood checked and his test levels dropped 75% while his LH and FSH also dropped 50% but he did feel fine the whole time and eventually did a 2 week PCT with clomid and months later fully recovered and his gains are still their but also it was his first cycle and it looks like he didn't hit his "natty limit" heres the example- Invalid Link Removed

Your LH and FSH was fine it looks like so you should be able to recover really quick and get back to baseline. A kid on here ran like ****ing 4 different sarms for like 12 weeks straight; and 6 weeks post PCT his test levels bounced. So I mean as long as you feel good, have energy, strength, libido you have nothing to worry about.
 
50Magnum said:
A kid on here ran like ****ing 4 different sarms for like 12 weeks straight; and 6 weeks post PCT his test levels bounced. So I mean as long as you feel good, have energy, strength, libido you have nothing to worry about.
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I mean tbh it doesn't really matter how much gear you run from the point of beeing shutdown. It matters if you are only suppressed vs completely shutdown. Also I don't see a reason why ypu would be surprised that anybody bounced back from a cycle? With a proper pct 99% (I imagine) bounce back...
 
Eh, I don't believe you ever truly bounce back 100% from a cycle. There is HTPA damage done anytime you completely shut down your test production. Your leydig cells in the testes atrophy and slowly lose function. I forgot the exact numbers, but it goes something like....If you are shut down for x amount of time, you only rexover x amount, for instance:

4 weeks- 95% recovery
8 weeks- 90% recovery
16+ weeks- 80-85% recovery


Something like that

So It seems the key is to keep the leydig cells from atrophying, because that is when permanent damage begins. SERMS or HCG both seem like good choices to keep the testes full, which leads me to believe the leydig cells are being protected, for the most part.

I could a little off about a couple of things but this is pretty much what I've gathered from all my research. You don't want your testes to atrophy- to prevent permanent damage. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
50Magnum said:
It means you weren't fully shut down because your LH and FSH was fully producing. For example my LH and FSH while running a sarm was average(actually LH doubled) also my testosterone dropped 80 points which means even though I did get slight suppression my overall hpta wasn't shutdown rather suppressed. You did get shutdown based on your test but not fully. For example this guy here I posted this already on another thread he ran T Bol by itself 40 mg for 8 weeks; 4 weeks in he got his blood checked and his test levels dropped 75% while his LH and FSH also dropped 50% but he did feel fine the whole time and eventually did a 2 week PCT with clomid and months later fully recovered and his gains are still their but also it was his first cycle and it looks like he didn't hit his "natty limit" heres the example- Invalid Link Removed

Your LH and FSH was fine it looks like so you should be able to recover really quick and get back to baseline. A kid on here ran like ****ing 4 different sarms for like 12 weeks straight; and 6 weeks post PCT his test levels bounced. So I mean as long as you feel good, have energy, strength, libido you have nothing to worry about.
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That's not true brother. I've seen accounts of people that thought they were ok until they got bloodwork, and found out their natural Test production was screwed.

And on the other end of the spectrum you've got guys (including me) who were pretty sure we had done major damage to our body's natural system, until we went in for bloodwork. .... Only to be told our numbers looked great, across the board .
Fellings can sometimes be straight liars bro.
 
Renew1 said:
That's not true brother. I've seen accounts of people that thought they were ok until they got bloodwork, and found out their natural Test production was screwed.

And on the other end of the spectrum you've got guys (including me) who were pretty sure we had done major damage to our body's natural system, until we went in for bloodwork. .... Only to be told our numbers looked great, across the board .
Fellings can sometimes be straight liars bro.
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Well yes bloodwork can affect everything; but usually **** bounces back especially if your pct went fine. So even if a guy is down to like 40-50 during his test levels and everything is functioning with him; if say 3 months down post pct his blood work shows that his t is slightly below his baseline I think its not too big of a deal especially if everything else is in range.
 
Jinsun said:
I mean tbh it doesn't really matter how much gear you run from the point of beeing shutdown. It matters if you are only suppressed vs completely shutdown. Also I don't see a reason why ypu would be surprised that anybody bounced back from a cycle? With a proper pct 99% (I imagine) bounce back...
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Well some people actually **** **** up and can make things worse post cycle. Also depends on how long you've ran **** for; someone whos been blasting and cruising on test for a year is going to have alot much harder time bouncing back to levels pre bloods before he started anything. Im not saying its not possible, but there has been many cases where individuals running long esthers for a while then they come off and have all sorts of problems eventually having to do some power pct protocol or go on hrt.
 
50Magnum said:
Well some people actually **** **** up and can make things worse post cycle. Also depends on how long you've ran **** for; someone whos been blasting and cruising on test for a year is going to have alot much harder time bouncing back to levels pre bloods before he started anything. Im not saying its not possible, but there has been many cases where individuals running long esthers for a while then they come off and have all sorts of problems eventually having to do some power pct protocol or go on hrt.
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You need to cruise these boards a lot more, and read the stories of so many guys on here who are now on TRT (and not by choice). It is a lot more common than you seem to realize.

Those of us who have been doing this stuff (and being a part of boards like these) for decades, know that guys may only be one cycle away from TRT... whether this is their first cycle or 10th.
 
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