SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

harrybrah said:
Awesome SH** bro! could you possibly make some muscle gains even while in deficit ? could i add in LGD to my cycle or would that be crap?

the thing is with me atm, is im still quite muscly have some fat so i'm like muscly/skinny fat sorta. Hopefully Ostarine in a cut can make some gains/get low as heck bf. Probably sitting at 14-17%, hopefully achieve 12% by the end :).
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I'm not sure about muscle since I lost so much fat but my strength did slightly increase while in a 1000 calorie deficit and only consuming 50g of carbs every day. If you're fresh back after surgery then you should definitely see an increase in muscle mass and strength really no matter what you do as long as you are back lifting again full time.
 
yates84 said:
I'm not sure about muscle since I lost so much fat but my strength did slightly increase while in a 1000 calorie deficit and only consuming 50g of carbs every day. If you're fresh back after surgery then you should definitely see an increase in muscle mass and strength really no matter what you do as long as you are back lifting again full time.
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Awesome stuff! 1000 calories is absolutely insane lol! i deffs could do with that ;) hehe. Probably will do -500 cals for the entire cycle, should be sufficient. Clean diet/ low carb, Will be adding a few extra compounds to assist such as Mk-677 and follidrone+laxogenin.

LGD and ostarine, is this a good combo? or shi*?
 
HardB0iled said:
I'd like it to be a lean bulk. My first time around with LGD, my sole goal was to add mass and increase strength. I got a little too bloated but I was eating everything in sight. Put on 18.5 lbs. and crushed plateaus. I'm 43 yrs old (yes, I was a 43 yo PH/Sarm virgin) so the rapid growth and strength gains where f**king amazing to me. I've got my diet back in check still running MK-677 and am leaner than I was pre-cycle still up 10lbs. So I'm guessing I put on about 13-14 lbs of lean mass. I'd like to add another 10+ lbs of lbm but try to avoid the bloat since I'll be finishing my cycle in the middle of summer. Maybe LGD (or MassGH) with a cleaner diet? Since I've passed the bloat period of the MK-677 (4 months in now) maybe I won't experience the same bloat second time around?
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If it worked real good the first time around then I would go for lgd again. MK677 is going to bloat you again if it did the first time around. If I was you I would run a solo lgd cycle and maybe add a base like epiandro to keep things nice and dry. Clean up your diet and you should see some more great results. I would start the lgd at 8 to 10mg from the start as well.
 
harrybrah said:
Awesome stuff! 1000 calories is absolutely insane lol! i deffs could do with that ;) hehe. Probably will do -500 cals for the entire cycle, should be sufficient. Clean diet/ low carb, Will be adding a few extra compounds to assist such as Mk-677 and follidrone+laxogenin.

LGD and ostarine, is this a good combo? or shi*?
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I would save the epicatechin and laxogenin for pct when you will need that extra help in maintaining results. Lgd and osta just isn't a very synergistic combination imo. I like rad as a 4 week kicker for both lgd and osta, very synergistic and gets the cycle moving at a quick pace!
 
harrybrah said:
Awesome stuff! 1000 calories is absolutely insane lol! i deffs could do with that ;) hehe. Probably will do -500 cals for the entire cycle, should be sufficient. Clean diet/ low carb, Will be adding a few extra compounds to assist such as Mk-677 and follidrone+laxogenin.

LGD and ostarine, is this a good combo? or shi*?
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Like what Yates said - 8 weeks of osta + epiandro on a deficit = lean & mean!
Rad into LGD for more size. Stretch a bottle of Ar1macare Pro over the cycle for a little estro & liver support if you're so inclined.
Epicatechin + laxo with pct to keep the gainz train on track.
Fun times ahead! :veryhappy:
 
yates84 said:
I'm not sure about muscle since I lost so much fat but my strength did slightly increase while in a 1000 calorie deficit...
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This is what I'm seeing currently. Day 30 and I just jumped from 17mg to 22mg Osta. I'm at about a -900kcal deficit. Strength is still gradually increasing (it's really evident on Squat and Deadlift - my Golfer's Elbow has made upper body a maintenance only affair this cycle). I think I'm at about 100-150 carbs. So far, I like the 'ole 2866.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
This is what I'm seeing currently. Day 30 and I just jumped from 17mg to 22mg Osta. I'm at about a -900kcal deficit. Strength is still gradually increasing (it's really evident on Squat and Deadlift - my Golfer's Elbow has made upper body a maintenance only affair this cycle). I think I'm at about 100-150 carbs. So far, I like the 'ole 2866.
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You should see some decent improvements in your elbow if you work on rehabilitation while on osta, it has e****lent healing properties as well.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
This is what I'm seeing currently. Day 30 and I just jumped from 17mg to 22mg Osta. I'm at about a -900kcal deficit. Strength is still gradually increasing (it's really evident on Squat and Deadlift - my Golfer's Elbow has made upper body a maintenance only affair this cycle). I think I'm at about 100-150 carbs. So far, I like the 'ole 2866.
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yates84 said:
You should see some decent improvements in your elbow if you work on rehabilitation while on osta, it has e****lent healing properties as well.
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+ AMS Joint Fixx & a little physio & you'll be good as new in no time :cool:
 
yates84 said:
I would save the epicatechin and laxogenin for pct when you will need that extra help in maintaining results. Lgd and osta just isn't a very synergistic combination imo. I like rad as a 4 week kicker for both lgd and osta, very synergistic and gets the cycle moving at a quick pace!
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awesome. Ill probably do that then ;)

Cycle as follows:

Ostarine weeks 1-8 25MG ED( OL brand).
Epiandro( primeval labs) 400mg ED weeks 1-8

On cycle care for assistance: Armicare Pro weeks 1-8 (8 caps)

PCT as follows:

Follidrone- 2caps daily
OL-Laxogenin- 2caps daily
Black Lion research: letrone- 1 cap( possibly 2 if i really need)
Nolvadex- 20MG ED for 4 weeks( does this sound good)?
Olympus labs Triumph- 2 scoops a day
Olympus labs LJ100- 2 caps a day 5x week( weekend off) repeat-8 weeks.


Anything else i should add or optimize ? i could throw in LGD 10mg daily into cycle, but like you said it wouldn't be a good synergy.
 
cheeky1 said:
+ AMS Joint Fixx & a little physio & you'll be good as new in no time :cool:
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Curcumin And cissus worked wonders for my ****t* elbows. I'd look into Hyaluronic acid, helps so much in terms of fluidity in your joints you;ll thank me later ;)

also fish oil too. And if not already taking, Glucosamine/chondroitin combo. ( would be much easier to just buy animal flex) it contains all of these, bar cissus/curcumin.
 
harrybrah said:
Curcumin And cissus worked wonders for my ****t* elbows. I'd look into Hyaluronic acid, helps so much in terms of fluidity in your joints you;ll thank me later ;)

also fish oil too. And if not already taking, Glucosamine/chondroitin combo. ( would be much easier to just buy animal flex) it contains all of these, bar cissus/curcumin.
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As I said - Joint Fixx :wink1:

Best tendon & connective tissue product I've yet found. There are others I'd recommend for structural joint issues, but in this case Joint Fixx would be my go to product.
 
harrybrah said:
awesome. Ill probably do that then ;)

Cycle as follows:

Ostarine weeks 1-8 25MG ED( OL brand).
Epiandro( primeval labs) 400mg ED weeks 1-8

On cycle care for assistance: Armicare Pro weeks 1-8 (8 caps)

PCT as follows:

Follidrone- 2caps daily
OL-Laxogenin- 2caps daily
Black Lion research: letrone- 1 cap( possibly 2 if i really need)
Nolvadex- 20MG ED for 4 weeks( does this sound good)?
Olympus labs Triumph- 2 scoops a day
Olympus labs LJ100- 2 caps a day 5x week( weekend off) repeat-8 weeks.


Anything else i should add or optimize ? i could throw in LGD 10mg daily into cycle, but like you said it wouldn't be a good synergy.
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You honestly don't even need 25mg. I would start at 15mg and maybe bump to 20mg if needed. I never go more than 15mg and get great results with minimal side effects.
 
yates84 said:
If it worked real good the first time around then I would go for lgd again. MK677 is going to bloat you again if it did the first time around. If I was you I would run a solo lgd cycle and maybe add a base like epiandro to keep things nice and dry. Clean up your diet and you should see some more great results. I would start the lgd at 8 to 10mg from the start as well.
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My thought on the MK677 was that if I continue to run it straight through... Then switch to MassGH keeping the Mk dose at 20mg w/ LGD at 8mg I may not see the same bloat since the general consensus seams to be that the bloat only occurs in the first few weeks, which was back in Oct-Nov for me.

Would you run epiandro over Trest as a base?
 
All:

I'm on it, I already personally re-habbed the other tendon in the same elbow when I had Tennis Elbow. I did it solely with the TheraBar eccentric loading re-hab. It worked, but took forrrrrrrrrr-ever. This time around I'm doing the same, but added high-dose B5, Cissus, Osta, and MK-677. Anecdotally it feels better only 3 months in (note: using VersaGrips for everything and lightened the weight for everything except Deadlifts - but I did not stop lifting). Also note, that Tendons and "Joints" are different things, so a lot of the stuff for cartilage doesn't apply - I just threw the Cissus at it for sh1ts and giggles.
 
harrybrah said:
awesome. Ill probably do that then ;)

Cycle as follows:

Ostarine weeks 1-8 25MG ED( OL brand).
Epiandro( primeval labs) 400mg ED weeks 1-8

On cycle care for assistance: Armicare Pro weeks 1-8 (8 caps)

PCT as follows:

Follidrone- 2caps daily
OL-Laxogenin- 2caps daily
Black Lion research: letrone- 1 cap( possibly 2 if i really need)
Nolvadex- 20MG ED for 4 weeks( does this sound good)?
Olympus labs Triumph- 2 scoops a day
Olympus labs LJ100- 2 caps a day 5x week( weekend off) repeat-8 weeks.


Anything else i should add or optimize ? i could throw in LGD 10mg daily into cycle, but like you said it wouldn't be a good synergy.
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I don't know if the nolva will be necessary, depends on your preferences. The rest is sound for sure. 400mg of epiandro straight up is aggressive if you haven't used it before, I'd be inclined to taper up 200/300/300/400/400/500/500/600.

This is really Yates territory, if there's any tweaking to be had here he'll let you know.
 
HardB0iled said:
My thought on the MK677 was that if I continue to run it straight through... Then switch to MassGH keeping the Mk dose at 20mg w/ LGD at 8mg I may not see the same bloat since the general consensus seams to be that the bloat only occurs in the first few weeks, which was back in Oct-Nov for me.

Would you run epiandro over Trest as a base?
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Ok, your mk677 theory sounds very plausible, should work out great. Some people never lose that bloat so just see how it goes. If needed then just switch to lgd solo when the time comes to get the bloat down. I would choose trest over epiandro every single time but trest treats me great and I get minimal side effects from it. If you're worried about bloat and are already going to be running MK then I might stay away from trest and opt for the epiandro.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
All:

I'm on it, I already personally re-habbed the other tendon in the same elbow when I had Tennis Elbow. I did it solely with the TheraBar eccentric loading re-hab. It worked, but took forrrrrrrrrr-ever. This time around I'm doing the same, but added high-dose B5, Cissus, Osta, and MK-677. Anecdotally it feels better only 3 months in (note: using VersaGrips for everything and lightened the weight for everything except Deadlifts - but I did not stop lifting). Also note, that Tendons and "Joints" are different things, so a lot of the stuff for cartilage doesn't apply - I just threw the Cissus at it for sh1ts and giggles.
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Joint Fixx is a bit of a misnomer - it's Hyaluronic acid, turmeric & avocado/soybean oil. Gets those connective tissues settled & gliding freely in no time.
Good to see you're onto it, that prior knowledge will be most handy! A mate of mine has been through the wringer over the past year with his golfers elbow & is now back to the therapist he originally started with. Now it seems to be a nerve issue. To say he's fed up at this point would be an understatement.
 
yates84 said:
There's ways around that too. 12.5mg of exem eod and 10mg of nolva eod kept my nips perfect even on 200mg of trest. If you know that you are estrogen sensitive then have all the proper ancillaries on hand before you start and you can address any issues as they develop.
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Agreed!!
 
The_Old_Guy said:
All:

I'm on it, I already personally re-habbed the other tendon in the same elbow when I had Tennis Elbow. I did it solely with the TheraBar eccentric loading re-hab. It worked, but took forrrrrrrrrr-ever. This time around I'm doing the same, but added high-dose B5, Cissus, Osta, and MK-677. Anecdotally it feels better only 3 months in (note: using VersaGrips for everything and lightened the weight for everything except Deadlifts - but I did not stop lifting). Also note, that Tendons and "Joints" are different things, so a lot of the stuff for cartilage doesn't apply - I just threw the Cissus at it for sh1ts and giggles.
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The MK & cissus are no doubt helping too.
 
cheeky1 said:
I don't know if the nolva will be necessary, depends on your preferences. The rest is sound for sure. 400mg of epiandro straight up is aggressive if you haven't used it before, I'd be inclined to taper up 200/300/300/400/400/500/500/600.

This is really Yates territory, if there's any tweaking to be had here he'll let you know.
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Nolva @ 20/10/10 should be plenty and save the lj100 for after pct. 400mg of epiandro is a good starting place but it can be ran much higher if needed. Primeval epi is not enhanced in any way so you can run up to a gram of it.
 
yates84 said:
Ok, your mk677 theory sounds very plausible, should work out great. Some people never lose that bloat so just see how it goes. If needed then just switch to lgd solo when the time comes to get the bloat down. I would choose trest over epiandro every single time but trest treats me great and I get minimal side effects from it. If you're worried about bloat and are already going to be running MK then I might stay away from trest and opt for the epiandro.
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Thanks bro. I absolutely loved Trest. No issues at all... Sensitive nips, yes, but no gyno concern and totally back to normal after coming off. I heard a certain up and coming nutrition company may be releasing a new "enhanced trest"... Any insight as to whether this would be out in time (end of April)??
 
yates84 said:
Nolva @ 20/10/10 should be plenty and save the lj100 for after pct. 400mg of epiandro is a good starting place but it can be ran much higher if needed. Primeval epi is not enhanced in any way so you can run up to a gram of it.
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Loved epiandro at 1000mg w/ osta
 
HardB0iled said:
Thanks bro. I absolutely loved Trest. No issues at all... Sensitive nips, yes, but no gyno concern and totally back to normal after coming off. I heard a certain up and coming nutrition company may be releasing a new "enhanced trest"... Any insight as to whether this would be out in time (end of April)??
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Yes, way before then it should be ready. Getting in production asap actually.
 
jmyers said:
Loved epiandro at 1000mg w/ osta
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Great thing about epiandro is that for PH noobs or guys particularly sensitive to it, it can have super positive effects at very low doses, like 300 - 400mg solo, or just 200mg stacked. I'm keen for the feedback on the new OL epiandro product to start filtering in.
 
harrybrah said:
jesus. How were the pumps brah? gains? did it have any side effects? what was your osta dosage? did you cut or bulk? sorry for questions, just curious! ;)
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Man, I am so digging your avatar harrybrah! :bigok:
 
harrybrah said:
Its awesome ;)
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You're going to Love that cycle. Osta & I are very close acquaintances, we get along even better than LGD. Osta + epiandro = feel like a king and shiny new joints for 8 weeks! Well, almost new joints :head:
 
cheeky1 said:
You're going to Love that cycle. Osta & I are very close acquaintances, we get along even better than LGD. Osta + epiandro = feel like a king and shiny new joints for 8 weeks! Well, almost new joints :head:
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Can't wait to squeeze some new life into these clackers ;) they're quite pedantic. Interms of liver toxicity How does epiandro fair? ive read its almost non toxic what so ever, but i shouldn't be concerned anyway lol. On dat dat cell tech( arimicare ;) )
 
harrybrah said:
jesus. How were the pumps brah? gains? did it have any side effects? what was your osta dosage? did you cut or bulk? sorry for questions, just curious! ;)
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It's was great! Recomped greatly! No matter how much I ate, I could not put on weight. No side effects. Osta was ran at 25 mg
 
I'm about ten days in to my ostarine cycle. First week was 10mg, then bumped to 15mg, and woke up with a killer headache. Anybody else get ostarine headaches? What works for them?
 
Sounds like your doing about the same thing as me, I'm on 15mg now, started at 5 for a few days, then went to 10 for a few days then 15. I noticed a day or so after I went to 15 I started noticing headaches. I'm doing split doses and added 5 mg to my morning dose. I noticed when I drank more water the headaches started going away, so if I started to feel anything I would just drink a bunch of water. Also I have noticed that now that I've been at 15 for 4 days or so that the headaches have gone away, could be because I'm more conscious about drinking more water or maybe it just happens when you up the dose and your body needs some time to adjust, I donno. How are you liking the osta so far? I've noticed slight improvements in recovery and a few nagging injuries seem to be getting better faster.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I'm about ten days in to my ostarine cycle. First week was 10mg, then bumped to 15mg, and woke up with a killer headache. Anybody else get ostarine headaches? What works for them?
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Drink a lot more water, anabolics tend to accelerate dehydration at least for me.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I'm about ten days in to my ostarine cycle. First week was 10mg, then bumped to 15mg, and woke up with a killer headache. Anybody else get ostarine headaches? What works for them?
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I started at 17mg split 12mg AM and 5mg PM (using up some BSL PCT IV for the Ostarine content, with OLUK), I'm now at 22mg split 12/10. I don't recall any headaches, but if there were, they came and went. I drink a crap load of fluid however and use every plant known to man for BP, Lipids, and Liver on cycle.
 
westcoast001 said:
Sounds like your doing about the same thing as me, I'm on 15mg now, started at 5 for a few days, then went to 10 for a few days then 15. I noticed a day or so after I went to 15 I started noticing headaches. I'm doing split doses and added 5 mg to my morning dose. I noticed when I drank more water the headaches started going away, so if I started to feel anything I would just drink a bunch of water. Also I have noticed that now that I've been at 15 for 4 days or so that the headaches have gone away, could be because I'm more conscious about drinking more water or maybe it just happens when you up the dose and your body needs some time to adjust, I donno. How are you liking the osta so far? I've noticed slight improvements in recovery and a few nagging injuries seem to be getting better faster.
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It hasn't kicked in yet. Takes 3-4 weeks I recall. I'll increase my water intake and see if that helps.
 
dcne02 said:
No need to split the dose either. Osta has a 24 hour half life.
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Yes, but I recall a chemistry guy on here working out the levels between once and twice a day dosing - the split dosing looked better as far as speed and maximal concentration. I've tried to go back and find the post, but there are eleventy drillion Osta posts - so I couldn't find it. It's working for me. If there's a downside, I'll switch to once a day.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I'm about ten days in to my ostarine cycle. First week was 10mg, then bumped to 15mg, and woke up with a killer headache. Anybody else get ostarine headaches? What works for them?
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I had some light headaches the first time I ran Ostarine. If I remember correctly, they only lasted a few days in the first week before they went away. As mentioned from some of the other posters, split-dosing can help to alleviate headaches for some people. I always split-dose my SARMs now and have had great results doing so. I also urge people to use a quality cycle support product(s) when taking SARMs.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Meh, Id rather split and avoid headaches personally. Unless, of course, there is evidence showing split dosing to be non-trivially detrimental.
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That is evidence you will never find. If split dosing works for you then by all means, split your dose. The only real wrong way to dose is being inconsistent with dosage timing imo.
 
yates84 said:
That is evidence you will never find. If split dosing works for you then by all means, split your dose. The only real wrong way to dose is being inconsistent with dosage timing imo.
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But I thought we were supposed to shock our bodies... Ya know, take our doses first thing in the morning one day, then right before bed the next, then split doses the next :beerchug:
 
BamBam0319 said:
But I thought we were supposed to shock our bodies... Ya know, take our doses first thing in the morning one day, then right before bed the next, then split doses the next :beerchug:
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bam- i agree with your logic and from what i have read also, but as yates84 says, the evidence inst readily available or published. so this should be done on a person to person basis.

unless i am completely wrong on this?
 
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