Coastie
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I have never taken a BCAA supplement, is it a must for gaining mass/recovery or is getting BCAA's from whey good enough?
Do you ingest adequate amounts of protein? Yes? Then you have almost no need to supplement BCAAs.I have never taken a BCAA supplement, is it a must for gaining mass/recovery or is getting BCAA's from whey good enough?
just wish they included leucine "peptide" not leucine- however the cost to consumer would skyrocketBcaa aren't just fasted. I don't share same view as many do. I like a nice big shot of leucine pre and post. Post will help with recovery. Are they necessary no. Do I like bcaa/eeas intraworkout yea.
I like kaged muscle fermented bcaas. Easy dump into my pre. If u want leucine peptides my protein has a great deal on themjust wish they included leucine "peptide" not leucine- however the cost to consumer would skyrocket
BCAAs are an integeral part of a protein, but ingested during a workout there most likely fate is oxidation, no youre drinking an expensive energy drink. Moreover the proteins are what, when ingested, are able to code for a new protein. The BCAAs cant as they are incomplete.I just read this in another thread it was written by Chuck Diesel it make sense of the need for BCAA
BCAAs = brick layers
Protein = cement to make bricks
House = muscles
You want to build a house faster what do you need? More brick layers or more cement?? Boom!
Agree with this.Why is it either a must or just all hype? Why is it being pigeion holed into extreme ends of the spectrum? Like everything, it is a bit more nuanced and contextual than simply good or bad.
Are they helpful? Possibly
Do you NEED them? No
Can you make progress without them? Yes
Would that progress be made better with the addittion of them? Possibly
ThisDo you ingest adequate amounts of protein? Yes? Then you have almost no need to supplement BCAAs.
'THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE'Why is it either a must or just all hype? Why is it being pigeion holed into extreme ends of the spectrum? Like everything, it is a bit more nuanced and contextual than simply good or bad.
Are they helpful? Possibly
Do you NEED them? No
Can you make progress without them? Yes
Would that progress be made better with the addittion of them? Possibly
This. BCAAs have their place, but are not essential in order to make strength gains. improve body compoisiton or performance.Why is it either a must or just all hype? Why is it being pigeion holed into extreme ends of the spectrum? Like everything, it is a bit more nuanced and contextual than simply good or bad.
Are they helpful? Possibly
Do you NEED them? No
Can you make progress without them? Yes
Would that progress be made better with the addittion of them? Possibly
theres really an easier way to do this Rocket, just pick me to log it- ill even use the test boost mind trick- you will pick me to lolChuck Diesel would love to hear you weight in here....?
Bingo!Do you ingest adequate amounts of protein? Yes? Then you have almost no need to supplement BCAAs.
People always say this, but this is a misconception. Its like saying "do you get enough protein? then you do not need arginine or citrulline products for pumps"Do you ingest adequate amounts of protein? Yes? Then you have almost no need to supplement BCAAs.
you can't be serious with what you just posted... l o lThink of it like this. What is a PROTEIN..Its a chain of amino acids.. And if BCAA's do the most for putting on lean muscle especially leucine then why just eat and hope your protein has enough. (which it doesn't) The best part of BCAA's are they can keep you in an anabolic state without having a caloric intake.
Looking at an anabolic window before, during and after training you would be crazy not to supplement with bcaas to peak this period.
Here is a few interesting things about leucine
n a series of elaborate experiments, researchers directly examined muscle protein synthesis after feeding animals various formulations of amino acids and compared them to glucose ingestion. When a complete protein (one that contains all the amino acids) was consumed, protein synthesis increased. When just essential amino acids were consumed without non-essential amino acids, the same increase was noted indicating non-essential amino acids are not required to stimulate protein synthesis. When only BCAAs were consumed, there was again the same increase in protein synthesis. Finally when just leucine was consumed, protein synthesis still increased to the same magnitude. These findings provided strong evidence that leucine was the driving force behind the ability of dietary protein to stimulate protein synthesis.
Researchers at the University of Illinois conducted studies that examined weight loss diets containing 10 grams of leucine per day and 125 grams total of protein per day with a minimum of 2.5 grams of leucine at each meal. In two separate studies, the groups consuming high leucine diets had greater weight loss, greater fat loss and better preservation of lean body mass. In these studies, the high leucine diets also resulted in better glucose control.
In another study, scientists from Columbia University studied rats that were fed high-fat diets. When given leucine supplements, their fat weight decreased by 25%. The leucine also promoted better blood sugar control and reduced total and LDL “bad” cholesterol. Leucine increased their resting metabolism by boosting levels of UCP3 (uncoupling protein 3), which causes the body to lose energy as heat rather than storing it as body fat.
A cautionary note—supplementing with just leucine alone will not result in optimal effects if the your diet is low in protein. This is because other BCAAs (isoleucine and valine) will be preferentially oxidized and lead to a BCAA imbalance that compromises anabolism. Therefore, if total protein intake is low, supplement with all three BCAAs.
This is why I like that ANSI BCAAS's is a 8:1:1 ratio.
Just about every part of this is false or short sightedThink of it like this. What is a PROTEIN..Its a chain of amino acids.. And if BCAA's do the most for putting on lean muscle especially leucine then why just eat and hope your protein has enough. (which it doesn't) The best part of BCAA's are they can keep you in an anabolic state without having a caloric intake.
Looking at an anabolic window before, during and after training you would be crazy not to supplement with bcaas to peak this period.
How about posting a link to the studies instead of just vaguely referencing themPeople always say this, but this is a misconception. Its like saying "do you get enough protein? then you do not need arginine or citrulline products for pumps"
No one eats 2 chx breast preworkout for pumps and that has 4g of arginine.
I'm getting together a lot of research on BCAAs to explain and breakdown soon because I think BCAAs (free form) should be treated as a supplement, not something to compare to protein powder/food. Protein powder is more better compared to dietary sources of protein.
For instance, I have research where casein supplements didn't do as much for being anti-catabolic as a lower dose of free form aminos. There are many reasons why, one is protein ingestion either over your daily req of .8g/kg or over 40g at one time produced ammonia from its processing into amino acids. BCAAs are not processed, they also do not break down in the liver. The correct amount of bcaas reduce ammonia (too many at once can increase it).
But for now look it like Nitric Oxide boosters. People see arginine as a supplement. They do not compare pump products to protein.
I got this study where they took mice and prevented them from using their hind legs. Its called a suspension test. BCAAs greatly slowed down muscle loss in their leg muscle from in activity compared to the mice with no bcaas
The OP's question was specifically directed at muscle gain and recovery. You injecting ergogens in to the discussion is irrelevant.People always say this, but this is a misconception. Its like saying "do you get enough protein? then you do not need arginine or citrulline products for pumps"
No one eats 2 chx breast preworkout for pumps and that has 4g of arginine.
I'm getting together a lot of research on BCAAs to explain and breakdown soon because I think BCAAs (free form) should be treated as a supplement, not something to compare to protein powder/food. Protein powder is more better compared to dietary sources of protein.
For instance, I have research where casein supplements didn't do as much for being anti-catabolic as a lower dose of free form aminos. There are many reasons why, one is protein ingestion either over your daily req of .8g/kg or over 40g at one time produced ammonia from its processing into amino acids. BCAAs are not processed, they also do not break down in the liver. The correct amount of bcaas reduce ammonia (too many at once can increase it).
But for now look it like Nitric Oxide boosters. People see arginine as a supplement. They do not compare pump products to protein.
You're actually better off getting .8g/kg of body weight protein and stopping there. Thats the thing, its not BCAAs or protein, once you get .8g/kg of protein, you will always ben. more from increased free form bcaas. The #1 cause of excessive ammonia production is people consuming too much protein.BCAAs are an integeral part of a protein, but ingested during a workout there most likely fate is oxidation, no youre drinking an expensive energy drink. Moreover the proteins are what, when ingested, are able to code for a new protein. The BCAAs cant as they are incomplete.
You're better off eating more protein if your goal is to build muscle. BCAAs and EAAs are generally used to negate muscle loss during exercise, enhance recovery, provide substrate for energy etc.
Hey I was just posting what I know, its 730pm, Im not digging up studies tonight. I have a lot of studies at my site for my BCAA product, you look them up.How about posting a link to the studies instead of just vaguely referencing them
The way it works is BCAAs take the other aminos and build muscle. Free form BCAAs also have anti-catabolic effects. "Protein" is different and has to be digested and processed in the liver. Excess protein is also the #1 cause for excess ammonia in the body.The OP's question was specifically directed at muscle gain and recovery. You injecting ergogens in to the discussion is irrelevant.
In bulking situations, BCAA supplementation is about as worthless as you can get. You will find no study to support that claim. Adequate protein intake and surplus calories plus exercise are the building blocks of muscle gain. With adequate protein intake the body has plenty of surplus energy and aminos to build muscle. This also ties in to muscle recovery where surplus calories and protein intake are both crucial. Again, amino acid supplementation will not improve recovery.
I don't think this is 100 percent correct. I think there's something to a quick spike of bcaas post. There's more to bcaas than as a bolus while fasted. Scivations recent study is interesting.The OP's question was specifically directed at muscle gain and recovery. You injecting ergogens in to the discussion is irrelevant.
In bulking situations, BCAA supplementation is about as worthless as you can get. You will find no study to support that claim. Adequate protein intake and surplus calories plus exercise are the building blocks of muscle gain. With adequate protein intake the body has plenty of surplus energy and aminos to build muscle. This also ties in to muscle recovery where surplus calories and protein intake are both crucial. Again, amino acid supplementation will not improve recovery.
Arginine is a free form amino acid that increases Nitric Oxide. BCAAs have their purpose. What do you mean I'm injecting ergogens into the discussion?The OP's question was specifically directed at muscle gain and recovery. You injecting ergogens in to the discussion is irrelevant.
how about you post references that flow against the grain where .8g per kg of protein with added aminos produced the same level of muscle mass growth as the isotrope studied 1.8g per kg/bw for athletes.You're actually better off getting .8g/kg of body weight protein and stopping there. Thats the thing, its not BCAAs or protein, once you get .8g/kg of protein, you will always ben. more from increased free form bcaas. The #1 cause of excessive ammonia production is people consuming too much protein.
There is like a bazzion studies on intra workout BCAAs. Leucine for one decreases ammonia by reducing glutamate dehydrogenase. I actually read something on excess protein intake and the liver this AM. Free form BCAAs are not "protein."
So its all based on do you get .8g/kg of protein? If the answer is yes, I suggest adding BCAAs. Now if you want to g ape sht on protein, and get 1.8g/kg like most "fitness" people want to do thats up to the individual. Sometimes you cant change tradition.
I didn't say .8g produces anything less or more than 1.8g. I said if your getting the min, you may benefit more from adding BCAAs before more protein.how about you post references that flow against the grain where .8g per kg of protein with added aminos produced the same level of muscle mass growth as the isotrope studied 1.8g per kg/bw for athletes.
Also, if you think BCAAs can produce a structual protein in of themselves -you would benefit greatly from a look at how a protein is coded and what aminos it needs.
Based on what?I didn't say .8g produces anything less or more than 1.8g. I said if your getting the min, you may benefit more from adding BCAAs before more protein.
You guys are crazy with your "post some references." Protein intake does not trump training and overall diet.
I ate chicken wings every meal for a year and then grew my own.I went for a year taking not one protein shake. and barely eating any protein at all just using BCAA's When I worked at ALR industries.
My weight barely moved that year from 269 to 275. I was on the road and was barely taking in calories most days I ate one a day maybe twice not 6-8 times a day.. I didn't lose muscle and I stayed lean.
Author new his stuff on BCAAS and Chuck does too it's exactly on point with what Author said. My point was you don't need food or protein shakes or you will lose muscle. I cut right to the chase and used BCAA's. I also watched Author live on just Humapro (which is mostly eaas) for a year. He maintained his size and got leaner. over a year no other proteins.
Also before I worked at ALR all I did was eat and use shakes. My physique looked way better after I started using BCAAS.
I also got a lot leaner not adding 250 calories on every shake. I kept a gallon full of bcaas and drank that all day everyday
Based on what?
Protein intake is diet.. moreover, it is pretty clear where the 'optimal' level of protein intake currently sits. 0.8g/kg is optimal for the non training population -
?? ^^^ I didn't say BCAAs "transform into" protein. I said BCAAs basically form muscle from the other aminos and they are anti-catabolic. Who said BCAAs for structural protein?Also, if you think BCAAs can produce a structual protein in of themselves. -you would benefit greatly from a look at how a protein is coded and what aminos it needs.
Times change - but these values have remained stagnent for a while. Is it not fair to ask for some kind of reference to back up a claim?Which has changed more times than Hillary has lied.