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DOJ to announce actions against dietary supplements makers

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gateway88 said:
not really. a token few. others just turned around and fueled the housing bubble with the same type of fraud. actually worse.
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Probably 8 or 10 companies, give or take, went bankrupt or came out with accounting scandals. Those are just the ones that got caught. So like you said, the others had to adapt due to Sarbanes, new SEC accounting standards, etc.
 
Woody said:
Regarding the label as coffee 1, 2, 3... I wonder if there is more to the context, whether good or bad. Just seems... Odd.

The fake COA without context speaks for itself. Of course, context could change things. But that seems unlikely.
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A phrase we will probably hear in court is "a pattern of behavior".
 
and from the defense's side we'll hear the ''because everyone else did it'' repeated over and over it will be like being at a mafia ''processo'' in the bunker court in palermo :)
 
jp_x_type said:
couldnt agree more with what the old guy said.

which makes me wonder whether other companies might be doing what usplabs did. i mean, usplabs was one of the leading brands. if they did it, god only knows what smaller brands MIGHT be doing. more reason to always stick to trusted brands i guess...
for sure this will make me more selective with regards to brands...
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LMAO@"Trusted brands"....You mean forum favorites?
 
JudoJosh said:
De__eB

I have been away from the forums for a while now, but last I remember RE: OEP -> Liver failure, wasn't the defense that the cases were localized to just Hawaii and as a result there was suspicion that these bottles were counterfeit and not actually OEP. Did this not pan out?
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That was the USPLabs defense, it would seem that did not pan out though, if the DOJ has internal emails discussing the fact that this root could cause liver problems.
 
Woody said:
Regarding the label as coffee 1, 2, 3... I wonder if there is more to the context, whether good or bad. Just seems... Odd.

The fake COA without context speaks for itself. Of course, context could change things. But that seems unlikely.
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If it was *JUST* shipment labeling and nothing else, I could almost look past it. But in the context of other things...

Import/Export records are searchable, and a determined person can find out ingredients that a company is going to be using soon, as well as their suppliers, via those records.
 
De__eB said:
Import/Export records are searchable, and a determined person can find out ingredients that a company is going to be using soon, as well as their suppliers, via those records.
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I'm tracking The Shaker Factory Company Ltd out of Hong Kong right now :) But I ain't no Import Genius.
 
gateway88 said:
i believe the lot numbers were confirmed and acknowledged by the fda on the last case. i think the other cases naproxen was found as the culprit as stated here. either way, they're ****ed for all the other stuff.

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This was before we found out they were using something liver toxic. Seems like they may have just found another common denominator. Odd that all were using the stuff though.
 
billybob12345 said:
They need to do a better job on redacted parts. You can see Jonathan Doyle's full social security number on page 33.
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I would imagine his accounts are under INTENSE scrutiny and being monitored 25/8. So if you feel like committing identity theft I'd give you ~48 hours before the FBI and DOJ breaks your door down
 
Woody said:
I would imagine his accounts are under INTENSE scrutiny and being monitored 25/8. So if you feel like committing identity theft I'd give you ~48 hours before the FBI and DOJ breaks your door down
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Don't be stupid. I didn't make any such comment. If the DOJ puts a public document on their site they need to properly edit the damn thing.
 
T-Bone said:
LMAO@"Trusted brands"....You mean forum favorites?
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cmon dude...
i am going to try and take your comment seriously so ...

lef, now, source naturals, planetary herbals... the list goes on.
i trust brands that hardly ever get mentioned on bodybuilding forums
you know better than i do man :P
 
Jiigzz said:
This was before we found out they were using something liver toxic. Seems like they may have just found another common denominator. Odd that all were using the stuff though.
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thats the thing, the ingredient the fda stated was liver toxic isn't really liver toxic. at least that was the conclusion when this entire thing first went down years ago. also how ageline was liver toxic, when in fact it really isn't. it's actually the opposite of the current arecoline thing. most people say carcinogenic but the fda says its ok?
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Brave souls if you take USPL products after reading that indictment (particularly the email quotes - it appears DoJ has 7 years of email). You have no idea what's in there, and even if that's prop blend BS 'normal', you now have quotes from the company proving that "extracts" may not be, could be chemicals in there, ineffective amounts, etc... How much better do think any of this stuff is, compared to the other 78,000 supplements out there? Worth your health at worst, or your money for grass clippings at best?

Looks like Korea had a problem with Cynanchum Auriculatum, and it's in the FDA Poison Plant Database for Pig Abortions:

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it was more fun to disagree with you, lol.
 
But I thought they were growing all their herbs on that patch of farmland in India that they bought...
 
MonteCedillo said:
Didn't other companies share raws USP? If so, I'd be curious to find out what ingredients were shared and what products they were in.
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If you ask my total nutrition, every company except their house brand and the 3-4 best sellers, which you know.... Are 75% more expensive than a competing brand of nearly the same ingredients, they offer are all produced by USP labs or use USP labs raws. Gotta love salesmen.
 
MonteCedillo said:
Didn't other companies share raws w/ USP? If so, I'd be curious to find out what ingredients were shared and what products they were in.
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theoretically, every company who used SK Labs for manufacturing had a chance of "sharing" raws with USP labs. That and if there are any brands with whom they are connected to, but have not let out public information of the connection.
 
MonteCedillo said:
Didn't other companies share raws w/ USP? If so, I'd be curious to find out what ingredients were shared and what products they were in.
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Didn't PES Enhanced and Alphamine have Aegeline in them? (N-[2-hydroxy-2(4-methoxyphenyl) ethyl]-3-phenyl-2-propenamide)

What other companies used it?
 
gateway88 said:
i'm sure he was born and raised there. we don't let anyone in this country. lol
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I've actually met Sitesh numerous times(haven't seen him since ~2009). He was always a really nice guy.


I was very surprised when I saw his company + name involved in this whole thing
 
damn, the plot thickens....roots are deeper than a redwood tree
 
T-Bone said:
They did say that they do get raws from the same supplier. Why are you demanding proof though, like this is some kind of court room drama?
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because people are stating they are the same. as someone said earlier, the fact they weren't arrested as well points to they are not. who cares anyway.
 
T-Bone said:
They did say that they do get raws from the same supplier. Why are you demanding proof though, like this is some kind of court room drama?
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I have yet to see a PES rep say that. Idk I probably want proof because I'd like to know if the companies I purchase products from is involved with a company that was just arrested for shady things. I could just like the court room drama though. You may call me Judge Woody.
 
Woody said:
I have yet to see a PES rep say that. Idk I probably want proof because I'd like to know if the companies I purchase products from is involved with a company that was just arrested for shady things. I could just like the court room drama though. You may call me Judge Woody.
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thats been confirmed but its not unusual at all. mike mccandless was talking about it on bb.com and how sk has done this for many companies and reportedly a very very large one. don't have a name though.
 
I have been thinking about this whole thing and how it may, should, will effect the industry. On one hand you have a company using pretty awful practices if the allegations are true. This would paint a picture of an industry where anything goes and there are no real rules. On the other hand you have an indictment here in an attempt to bring to justice the company using illegal practices. Wrong doing always goes on in almost any industry. The fact that they were caught and are being tried to me in a way shows that as long as rules are enforced we do NOT need additional rules. Enforcement is the issue not lack of regulation IMO.
 
Woody said:
What proof do you have of this?

I think it was asked already, but does anyone know who else uses SK Labs?
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I asked but unless I missed it, possible in the sea of posts in this thread, there really wasn't a definitive answer. My Google fu isn't getting me far on this one either though I haven't had time to really dig. As it stands in my eyes though anything that lab has the contract to make is suspect regardless of the product. Where there's smoke there's fire.
 
T-Bone said:
They did say that they do get raws from the same supplier. Why are you demanding proof though, like this is some kind of court room drama?
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BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

gateway88 said:
because people are stating they are the same. as someone said earlier, the fact they weren't arrested as well points to they are not. who cares anyway.
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Yeah if they are the same company then for sure they would be named in these indictments.

Woody said:
I have yet to see a PES rep say that. Idk I probably want proof because I'd like to know if the companies I purchase products from is involved with a company that was just arrested for shady things. I could just like the court room drama though. You may call me Judge Woody.
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I also care now with these allegations, so I would like to know if there is a link between PES and USPLabs for sure (anything other than sharing raws which I think Ben Carpenter already confirmed in an old thread).

BCseacow83 said:
I have been thinking about this whole thing and how it may, should, will effect the industry. On one hand you have a company using pretty awful practices if the allegations are true. This would paint a picture of an industry where anything goes and there are no real rules. On the other hand you have an indictment here in an attempt to bring to justice the company using illegal practices. Wrong doing always goes on in almost any industry. The fact that they were caught and are being tried to me in a way shows that as long as rules are enforced we do NOT need additional rules. Enforcement is the issue not lack of regulation IMO.
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This is a pretty good point. Also what good are more regulations if they are rarely enforced anyways?

gateway88 said:
yeah really. and if they were did the doj just forget to arrest them? don't think so.
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Hahahah that would be amazing.

HIM said:
I asked but unless I missed it, possible in the sea of posts in this thread, there really wasn't a definitive answer. My Google fu isn't getting me far on this one either though I haven't had time to really dig. As it stands in my eyes though anything that lab has the contract to make is suspect regardless of the product. Where there's smoke there's fire.
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Yeah I would like more transparency just so others and myself can make an educated decision about which products to support/buy
 
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carmaf said:
Yeah I would like more transparency just so others and myself can make an educated decision about which products to support/buy
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You want transparency?. Well then, all you have to do is start a thread in each category of supplements here on Anabolicminds. For instance- "Best Pre-workout", "Best Test Booster", "Best Sarm"...Just remember to start a new one every other day because things may have changed. You'll surely get your answers and decisions on what to buy made for you.
 
T-Bone said:
You want transparency?. Well then, all you have to do is start a thread in each category of supplements here on Anabolicminds. For instance- "Best Pre-workout", "Best Test Booster", "Best Sarm"...Just remember to start a new one every other day because things may have changed. You'll surely get your answers and decisions on what to buy made for you.
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Yeah, someone new might have sent The Solution a tub of their new preworkout, therefore making their product the best.
 
T-Bone said:
You want transparency?. Well then, all you have to do is start a thread in each category of supplements here on Anabolicminds. For instance- "Best Pre-workout", "Best Test Booster", "Best Sarm"...Just remember to start a new one every other day because things may have changed. You'll surely get your answers and decisions on what to buy made for you.
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Hahahahahhaha this actually made me laugh in my seat. I know asking for transparency from the supp industry is a tall order, but I think it's in companies interests to be more transparent bc it will lead to better brand loyalty and more repeat business.
 
T-Bone said:
You want transparency?. Well then, all you have to do is start a thread in each category of supplements here on Anabolicminds. For instance- "Best Pre-workout", "Best Test Booster", "Best Sarm"...Just remember to start a new one every other day because things may have changed. You'll surely get your answers and decisions on what to buy made for you.
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I don't think asking for companies that have used SK to manufacture their products is any more unreasonable than investors wanting to know what other companies used Arthur Anderson as their accounting firm. It's not a burden on the company and it will establish goodwill and peace of mind.
 
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