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Topic of the Week: Phosphatidic Acid or Arachidonic Acid?

MidwestBeast

MidwestBeast

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Title sums it up -- you can choose only one which do you pick and why? Which is better in your opinion?
 
Purely from personal experience I prefer ARA, better pumps and performance.

I like all of the new studies backing its efficacy and now alternate benefits as well, something PA has less of
 
I'm merely an observer in this one. I've only used ArA and not PA, so I wouldn't be able to offer anything up.
 
Good topic, but with the recent discovery of the granules being an acceptable form of PA for about 10 bucks a month, why not use both?
 
todd muelheim said:
Good topic, but with the recent discovery of the granules being an acceptable form of PA for about 10 bucks a month, why not use both?
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Because thats not the question. :lol:
 
Danes what the word on this big bro?

Also i know kbayne and muscleupchron got some input!

Ive only done sl granuales for a solid run and for the price and the benefits, Its hard to beat! Have an ara run ready to go so time will tell...
 
cumminslifter said:
i dont understand what everyone is waiting for. 7 dollars will get you a months supply of SL
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Answer the question taking cost out of the equation. Thats more what the topic is about. Effectiveness.

BTW - There is no wrong answer..they both are great it seems.
 
I'm trying PA right now, already tried ArA. ArA was great, so only time will tell if PA is just as good. Cost effectiveness is certainly there for PA though
 
Admin said:
Answer the question taking cost out of the equation. Thats more what the topic is about. Effectiveness.

BTW - There is no wrong answer..they both are great it seems.
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i wasnt answering the OP i was talking to antM1564 who i quoted
 
Im going to sound like a broken record to anyone familiar with my opinion/posts.

For a long time ArA was my gold standard, prior to running PA. If I absolutely had to choose only one ingredient, Id go with PA.

A big reason for this would be that I can run PA as a staple, so its effects/benefits can be exerted (and seen) over an extended period. ArA obviously is a cycled ingredient, so I can only benefit from using it over much shorter time frames.

But is ArA more 'intense'? In some respects it is; I get a better pump from ArA (in fact, the best pump from *any* product), and it can impact my recovery some (something PA dosnt appear to do), but at the end of the day I dont think it produces greater hypertrophy for me.

So its close but I think, even given similiar time frames, PA outperforms ArA in my experience.
 
I first started with Biotest Micro-PA which was amazing but was hurting the pockets so I switched to JayCutler King and still felt like I got the same results.
 
Lets try to keep the discussion to ingredient comparisons and "why" vs. actual products. We can leave the actual product comparisons to other threads. Thanks!
 
Driven2lift said:
something PA has less of
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Hmmm, I thought PA had just as 'good' data on it as ArA, maybe I unaware of some relevant studies? In regards to ArA I know of the Baylor(sp) study, and the latest Wilson one...are there others?

PA has similiar relevant in vivo studies (done by Wilson et al as well), and in vitro studies looking into possible MoA's.

If we are comparing ArA vs PA on relevant study data alone, Im not sure how ArA pips PA by volume (as you seem to be indicating?)
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Hmmm, I thought PA had just as 'good' data on it as ArA, maybe I unaware of some relevant studies? In regards to ArA I know of the Baylor(sp) study, and the latest Wilson one...are there others?

PA has similiar relevant in vivo studies (done by Wilson et al as well), and in vitro studies looking into possible MoA's.

If we are comparing ArA vs PA on relevant study data alone, Im not sure how ArA pips PA by volume (as you seem to be indicating?)
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Agreed with this post. I thought PA has been relatively proven and "certain PA products" have plenty of health benefits associated with them
 
Have seen alternate ARA benefits

What are the proposed PA benefits?
Have not seen those
 
I should probably clarify my post above.

Im sure, if we look at ArA purely as an omega acid, there is more data on it that PA; we likely have much more data on it in terms of its MoA.

But I was asking for data that was done moreso in a context relevant to us as bbers/athletes. AFAIK, both ingredients are pretty much equivalently 'proven' here?
 
NewAgeMayan said:
In vivo and in vitro evidence for increased mTOR activity. Data showing strength increases compared to placebo, hypertrophy increases compared to placebo. Anecdotally, increased muscle fullness.
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Those are the well known effects
ARA articles posted here showed alternate health benefits, which was my question
 
Driven2lift said:
Those are the well known effects
ARA articles posted here showed alternate health benefits, which was my question
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Ah ok, wasnt sure :)

I dont think Ive read of any alternate benefits to dosing with ArA, its prolly going to derail the thread somewhat to pursue this line of discussion (Id have questions relating to dose, etc)
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Ah ok, wasnt sure :) I dont think Ive read of any alternate benefits to dosing with ArA, its prolly going to derail the thread somewhat to pursue this line of discussion (Id have questions relating to dose, etc)
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Lol yep.
Articles were featured here on AM

Or the MN reps talked about it a lot
But anyways

Wondering what the AM gurus have to say
 
I appreciate this thread because the other PA vs. ARA thread has very little in the way of actual comparisons between the two.

I am excited to try ARA, but budget is a factor so I am giving PA a whirl. I try to be skeptical and am very conscious of placebo, but on my fourth day and I have experienced the feeling of muscle fullness that seems to be PA's distinguishing acute sensible effect. I would describe it almost as DOMS, but without the soreness.
 
Subbed for more info and insight.
 
Matthew1237 said:
Many people don't want to use that much soy or calories to get it I think is the issue.
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the soy is not a problem at all, or shouldnt be, and unless you are in some extreme dieting i think you should be able to afford 50-100calories
 
I prefer ArA over PA. Granted I've only gotten PA from Soy Lecithin granules so capped might be a bit different.

ArA I could actually feel working whereas with PA it wasn't as obvious. That doesn't mean ArA is better but many people like to see products actually work haha. I'm about to run ara again then PA afterwards to compare them right away
 
If soy lecithin is an emulsifier and around the same price as most of the gms most of us would use with ArA anyway, then doesn't it make sense to use the SL as the emulsifier and reap any additional benefits of the added PA? This is a question, as I am curious. Even if one likes ArA better (which I personally do), isn't the combination extremely synergistic?
 
todd muelheim said:
If soy lecithin is an emulsifier and around the same price as most of the gms most of us would use with ArA anyway, then doesn't it make sense to use the SL as the emulsifier and reap any additional benefits of the added PA? This is a question, as I am curious. Even if one likes ArA better (which I personally do), isn't the combination extremely synergistic?
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100% yes
 
ArA is much more noticeable. I consider PA as a staple now but honestly I didn't notice much from it. It's just so cheap so there's no harm in taking it. Lol
 
goodvibes said:
ArA is much more noticeable. I consider PA as a staple now but honestly I didn't notice much from it. It's just so cheap so there's no harm in taking it. Lol
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This has been my experience as well...between the cost and the face that it serves the purpose of gms I find no reason not to use it.
 
EMPIREMIND said:
Danes what the word on this big bro?

Also i know kbayne and muscleupchron got some input!

Ive only done sl granuales for a solid run and for the price and the benefits, Its hard to beat! Have an ara run ready to go so time will tell...
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Hi and sorry:) been 2500km away (my GF daughter confirmation).

I would allways pick PA before ArA.
Dont misunderstand, ArA is really one of the best natty supps but i am thinking of:

-generaly Health
-Price
-how long you can run it
-actually the results (PA gave me more than ArA. Strength,sixe etc. ArA was better for pumps)
 
Danes said:
Hi and sorry:) been 2500km away (my GF daughter confirmation).

I would allways pick PA before ArA.
Dont misunderstand, ArA is really one of the best natty supps but i am thinking of:

-generaly Health
-Price
-how long you can run it
-actually the results (PA gave me more than ArA. Strength,sixe etc. ArA was better for pumps)
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I do agree on the first three definitely worth it to run due to those. The 4th is probably user dependent but on that note I hate ArA for its ineffectiveness in the presence of O3. I love fish!
 
goodvibes said:
I do agree on the first three definitely worth it to run due to those. The 4th is probably user dependent but on that note I hate ArA for its ineffectiveness in the presence of O3. I love fish!
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And i forgot to say i am NOT talking about 750mg PA ;)
 
dreamcrusher said:
What brand? Is it just Lecithin granules? Never tried or heard of PA but makes me want to try it over ARA.
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Try both.

Run PA for a month, then add in ArA.

Soy lecithin granules; deoiled, around 97% Phosphatides. No matter the brand, products with these properties will yield 7% PA on average.
 
Why not stack the two. Infact stack that with clear muscle and see what happens with the killer 3.
 
dreamcrusher said:
2-4g a day? Take with meals or before workout?
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The main study on PA was done dosing 750mg/day; if you wish to dose higher, there may be benefits to doing so. Its ultimately your call, of course, but personally Id start off in the 750-1000mg range and assess from there.

Dose prewo, and you can dose on non-wo days as well if you wish.
 
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