Citrulline Malate vs Agmatine
- Thread starter iliftyo
- Start date
Athletix
Board Sponsor
Citrulline is regarded as one of the best NO pump ingredients, both L - Citrulline and Citrulline Malate have a lot of good feedback around here.
Agmatine is an NO ingredient like citrulline. It does the same thing there. But it also works as a GDA.
Just depends what you're looking to get out of them the most.
Agmatine is an NO ingredient like citrulline. It does the same thing there. But it also works as a GDA.
Just depends what you're looking to get out of them the most.
iliftyo
New member
What are the overall benefits you are referring to?
koi1214
Well-known member
blacklac
Well-known member
I need to do some more experimenting, but I seem to get more pump from L-Citrulline (~5g) vs Cit Mal (~9g). 5g Citrulline gave some epic pumps on pull day.
Forgot I have some bulk Agmatine. I'll have to play with that next week. Any point going over 1.5g in a preworkout scenario?
Forgot I have some bulk Agmatine. I'll have to play with that next week. Any point going over 1.5g in a preworkout scenario?
bobbybondmo
Banned
They work great together. If I had to choose one? It would be agmatine all the way - pump, recovery, gda....it does it all. I use 2-3g every day.
Mainly increased endurance.
The Solution
Legend
CM also helps lactic acid build up during training in higher amounts (6-8g) which have been documented and shown in studies. another key aspect and nice feature.
Driven2lift
Legend
Agreed.
Time to exhaustion/muscle fatigue is noticeably increased while using Citrulline or CM
It really kicks in above 4g (6g cit mal if a 2:1)
Time to exhaustion/muscle fatigue is noticeably increased while using Citrulline or CM
It really kicks in above 4g (6g cit mal if a 2:1)
ELROCK
Well-known member
I agree. If we are just talking from a workout stand point go with CM. But, if I had to choose just one for overall benefits I would differently go with agmatine.
Are you really sure you need to choose just one of these. They can be found quite cheap as bulk powders. Have you looked that route yet?
Tiocfaidh
Active member
You think Agmatine has more benefits overall than CM? What are they? I saw something about GDA properties but how much does it actually contribute.
kisaj
Legend
Mainly, it has cognitive benefits, which is why I choose it over CM. It has nootropic effects like increased mood, anti-anxiety, and increased focus. Acts as an anti-oxidant, and can help with pain. High doses release opioids in the brain and this can help with pain relief and also help with addictions.
IMO, agmatine is an important staple for overall health.
Tiocfaidh
Active member
Interesting. Is all this achieved with a certain dose? In other words, is there a one dose fits all scenario?
kisaj
Legend
1-1.5 G
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
Agreed. They can be dosed together or apart depending on the function.
T-Bone
Banned
Driven2lift
Legend
Invalid Link Removed
5.95 domestic shipping
Add the coupon SOCIAL for 10% off order as well. Not so bad
CM is solid though as well, as was said it is more of a must-have in a pre for me, but Agmatine carries more overall benefits for use in general
I go fir both, and have bulk of each on hand if I ever need it added to a pre
IFNutrition
New member
I like Agmatine better myself. I think it has more overall benefits. Agmatine can even be used to help with opiate addiction and withdrawal have any of you heard of this? CM does give me better pumps if dosed correctly but per mg once again I would choose Agmatine. Like many others have said it is nice having both
Segansational
Well-known member
Truth.
ALLMAX makes an "essentials" line, which are high quality, single ingredient products, at cost effective prices. Both agmatine sulfate and citrulline malate are part of our line up, and we use AgmaPure (>99% purity) agmatine sulfate, and 2:1 bonded citrulline malate. Both products are GMP and vegan certified as well.
Driven2lift
Legend
Pre workout is best of course
As a GDA with large meals is my #2
Pre-bed for GDA benefits again, some enjoy doing this
Myself I will dose 500 with breakfast, 1g pre, 500 with dinner
kisaj
Legend
The boring answer, it depends. Some love the relaxation it provides before bed. I like the focus and calmness it brings before the gym. Different strokes, but no denying it is beneficial regardless.
My PWO is FD, agmatine, alpha GPC, and dependent on workout- PEA and hordenine. Immediate post is chocolate milk with 500mg rhodiola.
Contaygious
Active member
Cm! Agmatine is great for taking a piss every hour though! I even tried agmatine when it first came out and have my old primaforce bottles, but now im stuck with it in conq3r anyway-oh well!
Spaniard
Well-known member
Stuck with it? You mean fortunate enough to have it!
There are poor bodybuilders all over the world that don't get any Agmatine, so you'll take your agmatine and you'll like it!
chedapalooza
Legend
4-6g l citrulline pre workout is amazing for pumps and vascularity. Also 2-3g spread out with a meal=serious nutrient delivery 
Contaygious
Active member
Ha i do like the pumps from it though-conqu3r for life yo
De__eB
Well-known member
I take it in the morning with my Focus XT and breakfast.
It's greatest potential for exercise enhancement is related to its ability to increase muscle glucose uptake at rest or at exercise.
--
Agmatine is 'cheap' in bulk but not incredibly so, you're still going to be paying close to ~$0.45/gram/day, which is pretty expensive as far as individual ingredients go, so I'd really suggest anyone who is looking into buying it on its own, make the most out of it.
Our SNS 100g Agmatine should beat most other brands pricing per gram on bulk agmatine powder.
Jiigzz
Legend
Decent list you got here T Bone
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Citrulline Malate... though I question the usefullness of the citrulline part, it's highly probably that most of the effects especially on endurance is coming from the malate (malic acid is well known to provide endurance benefits). Maybe the citrulline has a big role in it as well and plays together synergistically with the malate since citrulline IIRC shuttles ammonia away?
kbayne
Legend
I'm confused. You're questioning the usefulness of Citrulline?
Yeah the Malate is mainly for endurance purposes but I use Citrulline/Citrulline Malate for pumps and research showing it can increase MPS.
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Citrulline has been shown to increase MPS when one has a overall poor protein quality/quantity diet I recall? So for most of us eating plenty of protein, I don't see how it would provide much benefit for MPS.
Pumps of course is a different story altogether, I was talking about it more from an ergogenic POV though (performance, endurance, etc.).
chedapalooza
Legend
I just use it for the taste
So good. Had to hide it from my gf she used it like pixie stick dust!
mr.cooper69
Legend
Very incorrect. Most of the effects across all aspects of ergogenesis come from citrulline, period.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
This is what I got off Ergolog:
Citrulline converts slowly in the body into arginine, an amino acid that is released as proteins break down. One of the end products of this breakdown is ammonia. High amounts of ammonia in your blood make you tired and prevent glucose being turned into energy. If you take citrulline or arginine, your body removes the ammonia more quickly from your blood.
Malic acid or apple acid is released during the citric acid cycle. It prevents muscle cells from making lactic acid and stimulates the production of pyruvate, which supplies energy.
Both arginine and malate enable muscle cells to produce aerobic energy for longer, and delay the moment at which hardworking muscle cells resort to their ATP.
Citrulline converts slowly in the body into arginine, an amino acid that is released as proteins break down. One of the end products of this breakdown is ammonia. High amounts of ammonia in your blood make you tired and prevent glucose being turned into energy. If you take citrulline or arginine, your body removes the ammonia more quickly from your blood.
Malic acid or apple acid is released during the citric acid cycle. It prevents muscle cells from making lactic acid and stimulates the production of pyruvate, which supplies energy.
Both arginine and malate enable muscle cells to produce aerobic energy for longer, and delay the moment at which hardworking muscle cells resort to their ATP.
GD67
New member
Citrulline Malate is an amino acid with the main benefits of muscle growth, sustained muscle protein synthesis, and post-training recovery. All of these benefits are attributed to elevated blood arginine levels which have lead to greater Nitric Oxide (NO) production, muscle protein synthesis, and faster recovery. The process in which Citrulline is effective for reducing fatigue during training comes from the exchange typically produced. Citrulline is produced when Ornithine combines with Carbamoyl Phosphate, which occurs during the urea cycle when your body removes nitrogen waste. The addition of supplementing Citrulline in the body is said to put the urea cycle in overdrive, allowing it to suck up more ammonia (composed of nitrogen molecules) which are produced by working muscles. This in combination reduces the fatigue caused by muscles at the source.
The excess of Citrulline triggers a stronger effect of arginine conversion into nitric oxide (NO). The increase in arginine in the blood leads to increased NO production, the increase of NO increases blood flow during exercise and allows for muscles to perform for longer while under duress, which gives weightlifters the ability to produce bigger muscle pumps. The combined form of Citrulline with Malate has a second added effect to reducing fatigue, the malate helps the body recycle lactic acid and use it for energy. The end result of increased ammonia removal, lactic acid recycling and postponing the decrease in muscle pH levels allows users to have increased repetition count. Another study confirmed the increase in repetition but it has also found that it delayed the body's immunosuppressive mechanics when performing intense exercise. This means it can potentially help the body heal from intense training and avoid some of the symptoms associated with "overtraining".
The mechanisms of Citrulline during exercise has more uses other than just increasing blood arginine levels, it has a wide range of benefits including elevated protein synthesis, creatine synthesis, and more effective BCAA utilitization by muscles during exercise. Supplementing with Citrulline Malate has been growing in practice over the use of Arginine as studies have shown that Citrulline is more effective at increasing plasma arginine levels in the body. A recent study has shown that 3 grams of Citrulline Malate improves vascular function and vasodilation equivalent to 6 grams of arginine. This translates to more effective supplementation with lower intake values. Arginine has been known to cause upset stomach or digestive irritation due to the higher dosage while these same side-effects are far less common when supplementing with Citrulline.
Benefits:
Increases nitric oxide (NO) production
Improved muscle protein synthesis
Reduces fatigue and recovery time
Improved creatine synthesis & BCAA utilitization
The excess of Citrulline triggers a stronger effect of arginine conversion into nitric oxide (NO). The increase in arginine in the blood leads to increased NO production, the increase of NO increases blood flow during exercise and allows for muscles to perform for longer while under duress, which gives weightlifters the ability to produce bigger muscle pumps. The combined form of Citrulline with Malate has a second added effect to reducing fatigue, the malate helps the body recycle lactic acid and use it for energy. The end result of increased ammonia removal, lactic acid recycling and postponing the decrease in muscle pH levels allows users to have increased repetition count. Another study confirmed the increase in repetition but it has also found that it delayed the body's immunosuppressive mechanics when performing intense exercise. This means it can potentially help the body heal from intense training and avoid some of the symptoms associated with "overtraining".
The mechanisms of Citrulline during exercise has more uses other than just increasing blood arginine levels, it has a wide range of benefits including elevated protein synthesis, creatine synthesis, and more effective BCAA utilitization by muscles during exercise. Supplementing with Citrulline Malate has been growing in practice over the use of Arginine as studies have shown that Citrulline is more effective at increasing plasma arginine levels in the body. A recent study has shown that 3 grams of Citrulline Malate improves vascular function and vasodilation equivalent to 6 grams of arginine. This translates to more effective supplementation with lower intake values. Arginine has been known to cause upset stomach or digestive irritation due to the higher dosage while these same side-effects are far less common when supplementing with Citrulline.
Benefits:
Increases nitric oxide (NO) production
Improved muscle protein synthesis
Reduces fatigue and recovery time
Improved creatine synthesis & BCAA utilitization
kissdadookie
Well-known member
So from the above, we know that malic acid (the malate) has endurance benefits along with buffering the "burn" I guess, this equates to more reps (endurance). Citrulline is known to help remove amonia which we know can also combat fatigue thus boost endurance. So the question really comes down to if the malate is good enough on it's own or if the two together has an appreciable synergistic effect.
I mean if you look at malic acid on it's own, it not only buffers lactic acid (or I think it's more like blocking it) but it is an intermediate in the Kreb's Cycle and actually provides a cellular energy source in the form of pyruvate.
mr.cooper69
Legend
Ugh. Dude, come on. Not getting into this, supplementing krebs cycle intermediates is a VERY BASIC topic, akin to people who still use arginine to this day because it's directly involved in NO. You really need to stop buying into everything you read on the internet mayne
kissdadookie
Well-known member
I pointed it out, malic acid is an intermediate in the Krebs cycle. So what I was questioning was how much is the benefit of malic acid (malate) and how much is from the citrulline. You're the one saying it's 100% citrulline even though it's known that malic acid 1) prevents lactic acid 2) is an intermediate in the Krebs Cycle as it provides pyruvate.
mr.cooper69
Legend
Is it known? Come on, you are killing me recently man. Like I said, this is stuff that has been debunked for a very long time now. It is well known arginine is the precursor to NO. Why doesn't that work? Now think about why malate might not work. What you are saying is painfully easy biochem, like high school level. If the world was so simple, we'd have cured multiple glycolytic disorders.