Black Lion Research:- New compound trial applications.

[g0hardorgohom]

How far along are you?
What exactly are you running for PCT?

I haven't started it yet. I'll start it on Sunday after my powerlifting meet.

Clomid 50/50/50/25/25/25
Nolva 20/20/20/10/10/10
SUP3R PCT (OTC AI/test booster) for 4-6 weeks
DAA 3 grams/day
+ Antaeus Thunderbolt for pumps before training sessions

My original plan was to take 5a-hydroxy-laxogenin too but I thought that MAYBE I could volunteer for your guinea pig and save the laxogenin for future.

I have to say that I'm from Europe though - it is a problem for many companies.

 

[brundel]

Being in EU might be an issue.
Id like to have you be a part of this but I HATE EU customs. If it doesnt fill out in another 24 hours Ill include you and some of the other guys.

There is no reason to use 2 SERMS. Its like saying for my headache I took both an NSAID and also an NSAID. They are the same thing with regards to PCT.
Clomid being the better choice PCT wise IMHO.
SERMS can also be carcinogenic meaning they can CAUSE CANCER. So....limit their use and Def dont run 2 at the same time.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Being in EU might be an issue.
Id like to have you be a part of this but I HATE EU customs. If it doesnt fill out in another 24 hours Ill include you and some of the other guys.

There is no reason to use 2 SERMS. Its like saying for my headache I took both an NSAID and also an NSAID. They are the same thing with regards to PCT.
Clomid being the better choice PCT wise IMHO.
SERMS can also be carcinogenic meaning they can CAUSE CANCER. So....limit their use and Def dont run 2 at the same time.

I feel that I bounce back much faster using both than going with just one. And I've been on for 7 months, so... But I'll def give your new SERM a go when it hits the market. I like the idea of a herbal SERM without side effects... Normally I'd say that such thing doesn't exist but you if anyone can make it possible.

Customs here can be a bit problematic indeed. My country is probably the strictest one here so it might be better that I'll pass this opportunity - it wouldn't be fun to you if your new secret ingredient would get seized by customs and I would hate to see them seizing my vitamin B!

Will those participants log their progress here or will they report directly to you? It would be interesting to see how this pans out.

 

[brundel]

alot of people like clomid better. i hate it because of the weird emotional sides. but as far as nolva causing cancer in men, it is not really clear. it may be a liver carcinogen in rats, but not humans.

Understanding the genotoxicity of tamoxifen?

THere are tons of studies regarding uterine cancer and others caused by long term SERM use.
I posted a few in another thread. Unfortunately Im tired and this is my 1029310927398709186098623 th post/PM/Email today.....I need a secretary
Our new SERM has never been shown to cause any issues.

EDIT- This is from the article you posted
"Numerous studies have established an increased incidence of endometrial cancer among women taking tamoxifen (7,8). Recent results confirm not only an increased incidence of endometrial cancer (relative risk up to 7 compared with non-users), but also increased mortality from the disease "

 

[brundel]

I feel that I bounce back much faster using both than going with just one. And I've been on for 7 months, so... But I'll def give your new SERM a go when it hits the market. I like the idea of a herbal SERM without side effects... Normally I'd say that such thing doesn't exist but you if anyone can make it possible.

Customs here can be a bit problematic indeed. My country is probably the strictest one here so it might be better that I'll pass this opportunity - it wouldn't be fun to you if your new secret ingredient would get seized by customs and I would hate to see them seizing my vitamin B!

Will those participants log their progress here or will they report directly to you? It would be interesting to see how this pans out.

Once I get product shipped out to everyone Ill start a thread.
The whole thing will live and public so here is what Im thinking.

Ill number the bottles, Only I know which is active and which is not.
Ill have the testers log into a single thread. At the end we will compile all the weights, BF%, and lift numbers and make a chart using the combined info and the testers individual numbers. If things go the way I think they will it will be obvious who has the active and who is placebo.

Ive never run a trial before so Im kinda taking it as we go.
But the basic answer to your question is they will all report publicly so NOTHING is behind the scenes.

 

[luckylefty811]

It's about to get real up in here !!!

 

[brundel]

Double post

 

[brundel]

Double post.

 

[fistrj]

Exciting! Definitely will be following the thread!
Looking forward to see what you have coming! I'll be snatching it up as soon as I can!
Running Alpha-Mass + 5-Alpha Test right now, Using 1 pump formeron every other day. Love the vascularity I get when applying it about an hour before the gym! Noticeably leaner looking (water weight) and dries quickly. It's good to know there are still companies out there that believe in the products their selling and want them to actually work for the customer.
Looking forward to my incinderine/formeron cut starting later in May! Definitely will throw the new mystery product in if it's out by then too!

 

[brundel]

Exciting! Definitely will be following the thread!
Looking forward to see what you have coming! I'll be snatching it up as soon as I can!
Running Alpha-Mass + 5-Alpha Test right now, Using 1 pump formeron every other day. Love the vascularity I get when applying it about an hour before the gym! Noticeably leaner looking (water weight) and dries quickly. It's good to know there are still companies out there that believe in the products their selling and want them to actually work for the customer.
Looking forward to my incinderine/formeron cut starting later in May! Definitely will throw the new mystery product in if it's out by then too!

THanks for the good words.
Our goal is to make sure when you buy our products your excited when they arrive in the mailbox and....most importantly, your stoked with what happens when you take it. I spent years taking supps that did nothing and it was heartbreaking. NEVER will we sell you something we dont 100% believe is as good as it can be.

 

[hrdgain81]

brundel, do you have a mailing list? I'd love to get a heads up when this goes live.

 

[brundel]

brundel, do you have a mailing list? I'd love to get a heads up when this goes live.

I do. You can PM me your email.

 

[mountainman33]

Do we know when this may start?

 

[brundel]

So far I have 5-6 guys. I wanted 10. I have another guy I can add in and worst case Ill add the pre existing trials we have run to the mix or just have all of you guys run the active. The goal is to run a blind study but we need to have at least 5 people active and placebo. The more the better as variations between users may be vast. Ill run a last call.... Then Ill ask all of you guys and the community what they would like to see with the number of participants available.

This is really for the community as I have already internally tested.
So..either we will run the trial with less people
or
we will just have all of you guys run logs on the active.

Either way Id like to ship product in the next 2 days.

 

[luckylefty811]

So far I have 5-6 guys. I wanted 10. I have another guy I can add in and worst case Ill add the pre existing trials we have run to the mix or just have all of you guys run the active. The goal is to run a blind study but we need to have at least 5 people active and placebo. The more the better as variations between users may be vast. Ill run a last call.... Then Ill ask all of you guys and the community what they would like to see with the number of participants available. This is really for the community as I have already internally tested. So..either we will run the trial with less people or we will just have all of you guys run logs on the active. Either way Id like to ship product in the next 2 days.

I'm in ill be done with my cycle the 31st

 

[MultiVitamin]

Eager to see what comes of this

 

[rosemont83]

I'd be down if I can meet your criteria..
When you reply to my pm let me know!

 

[TheMovement]

BUMP for more apps!!!

Cmon folks its an opportunity to be part of something more than just a thread. Experience kills but if you can manage a write up of what you do for your workouts and a decent daily routine then there is no reason not to apply. Great chance to get a Log in your book that will help benefit many users in this forum. Go ahead and take that leap folks

 

[brundel]

I'm in ill be done with my cycle the 31st

Youll be at the end of a cycle though and in PCT. Too many things may lower strength and weight at this time so it would skew the results.

 

[abformulations]

Youll be at the end of a cycle though and in PCT. Too many things may lower strength and weight at this time so it would skew the results.

I haven't receive any email from you yet. When will you be sending it out?

 

[brundel]

I haven't receive any email from you yet. When will you be sending it out?

I was waiting till I got enough candidates so I dont have to send a ton of emails. I can send one generic email to everyone.
Hopefully we get 10 people.
If not well figure out the course of action that will benefit the community the most.

 

[abformulations]

I was waiting till I got enough candidates so I dont have to send a ton of emails. I can send one generic email to everyone. Hopefully we get 10 people. If not well figure out the course of action that will benefit the community the most.

Out of curiously. What's the standard length this can be taken for? Ik you said its a 4 weeks trial. Maybe extend it to 6 or 8? And spread it out to us?

Understandable. No worries.

 

[brundel]

If we dont get enough people Ill just have you guys run standard logs. The results will speak for themselves.
It will be a disappointment to not be able to make this happen though.

Since this stuff isnt suppressive there is no concern for longer term use.
Id say 8 weeks use is reasonable for sure.
Well see what happens.

Currently I have about half the guys I need. I can recruit 1-2 more but we are still behind the curve. Its not enough people to account for variations and different responses. Ill give it another day. Then Ill let you guys decide as again this isnt really for me. Its for the community to see how testing is done on our products. We have already done this internally so....its not needed.

 

[kisaj]

Let's go guys, I need that 50% coupon to restock my formeron! Quit being selfish. lol

 

[abformulations]

Damn. We need a few more. Maybe post this in the supp section?

 

[horizons]

I am disappointed that you haven't got 10 people yet

 

[fueledpassion]

I am disappointed that you haven't got 10 people yet

Sounds like there are 1 of 3 issues:

1) The part where u take an unknown herbal substance for 4 weeks

2) Not meeting the criteria

3) This one is just my opinion, but I have yet to discover a herbal formula that CONSISTENTLY does anything close to androgens by way of performance enhancement or mass building. Not disqualifying this substance, but I'm a skeptic of herbs when it comes to getting steroid-like gains. Sure, they lower cholesterol, enhance components of the metabolism, reduce oxidative stress, etc but giving gains like roids do, I just doubt it most of the time. Maybe others feel this way about it too but outside of amino acids, proteins and other basic staple supps like vitamins, minerals, creatine and beta alanine...I tend to doubt.

 

[horizons]

Very good points

 

[abformulations]

Good points. But Natadrol gives near ph gains and such. You can also say Ara as well. So I'm sure it's possible for this to act like it as well.

I'm not saying gaining 10-15 lbs but it's possible to gain 5lbs easy on those mentioned.

But I do agree that meeting those criteria might have people back away. Maybe a little more lenient on them?

 

[lukehayd]

I understand the hesitation on the part of some people. I also remember USPLabs doing an almost identical scenario. This has already been thoroughly tested in-house but just wanting to get some more diversified testers to help get a broader range of feedback to help the company make any tweaks to the product. I guess it's all in name recognition because USPLabs has em' coming out of the wood work to do tests like this!

 

[bswanny]

I don't meet the criteria but am definitely following and fairly excited as all of BLRs products have worked well. Was curious too if the ingredient in here is the same as Natadrol or an ecdysterone.

 

[madripper32]

I just wish life wasn't so hectic for me I would love to partake but at the same time I don't want to skew results in anyway.

 

[Beau]

I am in the same situation.

With those limitations, please consider me as an applicant.

I'm still game.

 

[brundel]

Damn. We need a few more. Maybe post this in the supp section?

I posted in supp and anabolic sections the first day.

 

[Piston Honda]

I'd be in but would have a hard time getting accurate readings. Plus I'm rehabbing some old injuries and my #s for my lifts will be low for a bit while I bring my body up to full speed. In any event I'll most likely purchase this whenever it's officially released due to Brundel's track record so far.

 

[brundel]

Sounds like there are 1 of 3 issues:

1) The part where u take an unknown herbal substance for 4 weeks

2) Not meeting the criteria

3) This one is just my opinion, but I have yet to discover a herbal formula that CONSISTENTLY does anything close to androgens by way of performance enhancement or mass building. Not disqualifying this substance, but I'm a skeptic of herbs when it comes to getting steroid-like gains. Sure, they lower cholesterol, enhance components of the metabolism, reduce oxidative stress, etc but giving gains like roids do, I just doubt it most of the time. Maybe others feel this way about it too but outside of amino acids, proteins and other basic staple supps like vitamins, minerals, creatine and beta alanine...I tend to doubt.

The substance is far from unknown. Just unknown to the people taking it. This is so placebo effects dont set in.
The compound has been extensively studied.

The criteria are set in place for several reasons but primarily because we need a certain type of member who will follow through.
If 2 guys fail the study will be flawed. In the past I have had approx 30% log op members back out or fail to complete.
We cant have this happen.

Regarding this herbal substance. If people knew they would be chomping at the bit to take it.
This one works.

Period.

Most likely Ill just have the current guys who signed up run product logs.
Sucks for the community but the loggers will be stoked.

 

[brundel]

I don't meet the criteria but am definitely following and fairly excited as all of BLRs products have worked well. Was curious too if the ingredient in here is the same as Natadrol or an ecdysterone.

Its def not this is a new compound to the industry and we intend to set a standard.

 

[brundel]

The guys who didnt get in on this will regret it when they have to buy it.


Because Im 100% certain they will want to.

 

[mountainman33]

The guys who didnt get in on this will regret it when they have to buy it.

Because Im 100% certain they will want to.

Then I say let's get this b!tch started!

 

[brundel]

Then I say let's get this b!tch started!

Weve only got 6 people. 3 and 3 isnt enough to account for variables in response.

I can only try. If the forum doesnt want to do it there is nothing I can do.

 

[mountainman33]

Weve only got 6 people. 3 and 3 isnt enough to account for variables in response.

I can only try. If the forum doesnt want to do it there is nothing I can do.

I won't tell anybody......I promise.

 

[kbayne]

It sucks if we can't get 10 people to do it how you want, but I'm down to do just the standard log.

 

[brundel]

It sucks if we can't get 10 people to do it how you want, but I'm down to do just the standard log.

Oh either way you guys will get to be a part of this.
Its actually better for you guys as everyone will get the active.

Just wait....mark my words here.
Guys are gonna be super bummed they missed out.

 

[brundel]

It sucks if we can't get 10 people to do it how you want, but I'm down to do just the standard log.

Oh either way you guys will get to be a part of this.
Its actually better for you guys as everyone will get the active.

Just wait....mark my words here.
Guys are gonna be super bummed they missed out.

 

[luckylefty811]

I'm pissed no one is signing up ! I would be down to run it...I'll be checking the logs all the way through though.

 

[MultiVitamin]

I'm pissed no one is signing up ! I would be down to run it...I'll be checking the logs all the way through though.

Same here, seems like a really great opportunity, and a cool thing to play a part in

 

[brundel]

Same here, seems like a really great opportunity, and a cool thing to play a part in

If we wind up just running logs you can get in on it as well.

 

[Docmattic]

Weve only got 6 people. 3 and 3 isnt enough to account for variables in response.

I can only try. If the forum doesnt want to do it there is nothing I can do.

Was this including my application? or you didnt like it?

 

[brundel]

Was this including my application? or you didnt like it?

Your application would be fine if you were not in AU.
Just too much headache trying to ship there.
Ive had several packages stopped at customs there with no resolve. Just gone.
Cant take the chance.
Forgive me if I didnt respond before. There is alot going on currently.

 

[kbayne]

I know you're still trying to get a few people, but any idea when these will be shipped out and ready to go? No rush, just curious and excited.