DMAA Alternative

Jag

Jag

Active member
Pretty much what the title says.

I managed to stockpile some DMAA but i want to experiment with some alternatives though for when the enivitable comes!!

Thanks.
 
Jag said:
Pretty much what the title says.

I managed to stockpile some DMAA but i want to experiment with some alternatives though for when the enivitable comes!!

Thanks.
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there is nothing that is going to replace it that will give you the same effect
 
Patrick Arnold said:
there is nothing that is going to replace it that will give you the same effect
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I will mourn its passing when and if it goes. Outside caffeine it is the only stim I can tolerate, everything else makes me jittery makes my stomach hurt and crushes my libido. ....I guess if it goes I'll just start drinking JFK's before my workouts.....What's a JFK??? Its a triple shot latte' ;)
 
truthornothin said:
I will mourn its passing when and if it goes. Outside caffeine it is the only stim I can tolerate, everything else makes me jittery makes my stomach hurt and crushes my libido. ....I guess if it goes I'll just start drinking JFK's before my workouts.....What's a JFK??? Its a triple shot latte' ;)
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I love DMAA and am gonna miss the hell out of it, but it crushed my libido in a bad way. That was the only unwanted side-effect I ever got from it though. Again, I am gonna miss it... :(
 
Jag said:
Pretty much what the title says.

I managed to stockpile some DMAA but i want to experiment with some alternatives though for when the enivitable comes!!

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I guess it depends on how old you are... If you weren't around for the golden years in the supplement industry when every fat burner was Ephedra based you could always build your own ECA stack. 25mg Ephedrine 2-3x a day, 200mg caffeine 2-3x a day (though I never used that much) and Asprin 2-3x a day (I forget how much) taken all together. It depends, too, if you live in a state where you don't need a prescription for pure Ephedrine tablets. Here in Missouri they've been trying to get a law passed for a few years now that would make any OTC Ephedrine or Psuedoephedrine medications prescription only (meth labs are a BIG problem in Missouri) and I know some other states have passed similar laws. If you live in a state that doesn't have such restrictions just go to the counter at the pharmacy (they'll probably want your I.D. to track your Ephedrine purchases) and ask for a box. I used to get Primatine 25mg tablets and they worked well.
If Ephedrine isn't your thing then, well, good luck. I can't think of anything else that's going to come close to matching DMAA's effects.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Yes it is
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Where is it going?. I have not heard or read about anything strictly stating that it is/was going to be banned. I have just read that some companies have received warning letters about products containing it. Also I'm continually seeing new products added to nutraplanet that have DMAA as an ingredient. So what did I miss?. Where is the announcement of a specific ban on DMAA?.
 
T-Bone said:
Where is it going?. I have not heard or read about anything strictly stating that it is/was going to be banned. I have just read that some companies have received warning letters about products containing it. Also I'm continually seeing new products added to nutraplanet that have DMAA as an ingredient. So what did I miss?. Where is the announcement of a specific ban on DMAA?.
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I assume what he meant is that it is very likely it will eventually be banned from sale. Of course we knew that about ephedrine back in 2000 or so but it took years for anyhthing to happen
 
T-Bone said:
Where is it going?. I have not heard or read about anything strictly stating that it is/was going to be banned. I have just read that some companies have received warning letters about products containing it. Also I'm continually seeing new products added to nutraplanet that have DMAA as an ingredient. So what did I miss?. Where is the announcement of a specific ban on DMAA?.
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Bans have always followed unheeded warning letters. And the companies that are currently making it available (and not learning from the letters sent to other companies) are only providing fuel for the fire.
 
truthornothin said:
I will mourn its passing when and if it goes. Outside caffeine it is the only stim I can tolerate, everything else makes me jittery makes my stomach hurt and crushes my libido. ....I guess if it goes I'll just start drinking JFK's before my workouts.....What's a JFK??? Its a triple shot latte' ;)
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Lmao @ "JFK"
 
I noticed that lot of companies have started to manufacture supplements that contain ephedra again, so maybe the FDA isn't really enforcing the ban heavily these days?
 
IronMagLabs said:
I thought I remember a judge overturning the ban on ephedra several years ago.
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Yeah, I believe that was in 2005, although if I remember correctly, the ban was re-instated a month or two later by yet another judge following an appeal by the FDA (boo). So in other words and to provide a recap, it was banned, re-legalized, and then re-banned. But if you visit the websites of several online supplement shops (I can't post the links here, of course), you'll see that there's actually a substantial number of products being actively manufactured and sold which contain ephedra. I'm crossing my fingers for a tasty ephedra-based PWO, myself.
 
SpicedCider said:
Yeah, I believe that was in 2005, although if I remember correctly, the ban was re-instated a month or two later by yet another judge following an appeal by the FDA (boo). So in other words and to provide a recap, it was banned, re-legalized, and then re-banned. But if you visit the websites of several online supplement shops (I can't post the links here, of course), you'll see that there's actually a substantial number of products being actively manufactured and sold which contain ephedra. I'm crossing my fingers for a tasty ephedra-based PWO, myself.
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I believe all these new "ephedra" supps don't actually contain any ephedrine, they are from some other part of the plant or something.
 
jamesm11 said:
Probably more dangerous than anything mentioned in this thread. Wouldn't touch it
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seen its bad side in action with my girlfriend's son. Overly and indiscriminately prescribed
 
The bottom line is anybody can market and sell an "Ephedra" based product.... It just can't contain Ephedrine alkaloids. So all of these fat burners that have "Ephedra Leaf" and "Ephedra Extract" are just a bunch of shadily marketd bullcrap. If any of them do happen to contain Ephedrine alkaloids they're really asking for trouble from the feds IMO.
 
IronMagLabs said:
We now have our latest product in stock, Pyro Rx with Geranimol ~ ]
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Would you mind posting the actual ingredient dosages here? I know the FDA allows you to refer to a "proprietary blend", but it is really a cop out to those who read this forum.
 
punisher55 said:
Would you mind posting the actual ingredient dosages here? I know the FDA allows you to refer to a "proprietary blend", but it is really a cop out to those who read this forum.
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this isn't really the place to do that
 
dmaa said:
I read all the threads and no one talk about dmaa replacement, very disappointed about that.
Here I recommend some ingredients:
1.dendrobium extract
2.higenamine hcl
3.hordenine hcl
4.Caffeine
5.Citrus Aurantium, or bitter orange (synephrine)
6.Phenylethylamine
7.N-methyltyramine(Methyltyramine, N-methyltyramine, or NMT)
8. Theobromine
9. N-Acetyl Tyrosine
10.DMAE

dendrobium extract 1% and higenamine hcl are the most popular ones recently.
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Methylsynephrine ;)
Acacia ridigula
 
dmaa said:
I read all the threads and no one talk about dmaa replacement, very disappointed about that.
Here I recommend some ingredients:
1.dendrobium extract
2.higenamine hcl
3.hordenine hcl
4.Caffeine
5.Citrus Aurantium, or bitter orange (synephrine)
6.Phenylethylamine
7.N-methyltyramine（Methyltyramine, N-methyltyramine, or NMT）
8. Theobromine
9. N-Acetyl Tyrosine
10.DMAE

dendrobium extract 1% and higenamine hcl are the most popular ones recently.
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first of all, caffeine is not a replacement since all DMAA products are stacked with caffeine.

Second of all, none of these ingredients do anything close to what DMAA does. some do have stim action but to match DMAA is just too tall an order for these.
 
dmaa said:
By the way, could you common on higenamine hcl? Some said it is toxic, is it true?
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What a coincidence that you are asking about Higenamine, we are right now discussing this substance in one of the Swedish boards.

Recently I found an interesting molecular property predictor which gives you 5 free predictions as a guest and if you register (for free) another 30 predictions, each month*. There are some interesting predictions under Toxicity and ADME.

It appears that Higenamine have not so good bioavailability and at least in rats according to the study** it is metabolized to coclaurine and isococlaurine.

If you do not want to draw the molecules yourself, you can copy following SMILES descriptors instead, by clicking on the smile symbol in the application.
Higenamine: Oc1ccc(cc1)CC2NCCc3cc(O)c(O)cc23
Coclaurine: Oc1ccc(cc1)CC2NCCc3cc(OC)c(O)cc23

It appears that both Higenamine and its metabolite Coclaurine are predicted as weak binding to Estrogen Receptor alpha (LogRBA between -3 and 0). Under Toxicity/Endocrine Disruption.

A question to Patrick (and others): How useful would you say are such a molecular prediction property tools? Have you used them yourself sometimes?

Due to the rules I cannot post links directly therefore you have to google it yourselfs.
*The predictor name is ACD/I-Lab.
**The title of the article is Identification of higenamine and its metabolites in rat by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry.

EDIT: Somehow, there is introduced a gap in the end of SMILES, however when I try to correct it, the gap is nonexistent in the editing text. Therefore if you copy the SMILES, erase the gaps before use in the prediction tool.
 
dmaa said:
well, you are all experts. I just follow suits. we only suppy ingredients, as sales, we are lack of such internal knowledge of the ingredients.
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Well I am not an expert and to clarify, I do not represent that company. I just found it interesting that there are such a tools online that gives you the opportunity for predicating properties of various molecules.
 
dmaa said:
So do you have an ideal candidate for DMAA?
One of my clients said Phosphatidic Acid is good enough,right?
By the way, could you common on higenamine hcl? Some said it is toxic, is it true?
You are an expert, we admire your comments.
Thank you, patrick.
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i have no candidate

phosphatidic acid will not give any stimulant activity

people that tried higenamine have said it doesnt do much. i personally have not tried it. i know nothing of any toxicity
 
Kelt said:
What a coincidence that you are asking about Higenamine, we are right now discussing this substance in one of the Swedish boards.

Recently I found an interesting molecular property predictor which gives you 5 free predictions as a guest and if you register (for free) another 30 predictions, each month*. There are some interesting predictions under Toxicity and ADME.

It appears that Higenamine have not so good bioavailability and at least in rats according to the study** it is metabolized to coclaurine and isococlaurine.

If you do not want to draw the molecules yourself, you can copy following SMILES descriptors instead, by clicking on the smile symbol in the application.
Higenamine: Oc1ccc(cc1)CC2NCCc3cc(O)c(O)cc23
Coclaurine: Oc1ccc(cc1)CC2NCCc3cc(OC)c(O)cc23

It appears that both Higenamine and its metabolite Coclaurine are predicted as weak binding to Estrogen Receptor alpha (LogRBA between -3 and 0). Under Toxicity/Endocrine Disruption.

A question to Patrick (and others): How useful would you say are such a molecular prediction property tools? Have you used them yourself sometimes?

Due to the rules I cannot post links directly therefore you have to google it yourselfs.
*The predictor name is ACD/I-Lab.
**The title of the article is Identification of higenamine and its metabolites in rat by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry.
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i never used such a thing

thanks for the tip
 
Patrick Arnold said:
i never used such a thing

thanks for the tip
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Ok, I understand. What I know is that most of the big pharma companies usually do some kind of prediction on all of their new designs. I presume that the synthesis costs both time and money so they probably want to see whether it is worth to even try.

For us I would say it could be useful to get some kind of indication for the more “exotic” substances that are found in the supplements nowadays which do not have so many published papers about.
 
The very first time I tried a product containing higenamine, I felt an ephedra-like boost and was able to run much faster than I normally do for the first 12-15 minutes of my run (which usually lasts longer than an hour). I didn't experience a huge crash when it wore off -- it was more like I just didn't feel the "boost" anymore. However, every time I have used the same product since then, I haven't felt anything at all. I guess I built tolerance to it REALLY fast.
 
SpicedCider said:
The very first time I tried a product containing higenamine, I felt an ephedra-like boost and was able to run much faster than I normally do for the first 12-15 minutes of my run (which usually lasts longer than an hour). I didn't experience a huge crash when it wore off -- it was more like I just didn't feel the "boost" anymore. However, every time I have used the same product since then, I haven't felt anything at all. I guess I built tolerance to it REALLY fast.
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Unlikely, given the ~10 minute plasma HL in humans
 
DMAA is still around and with the study showing its in geranium it may stick around for a bit.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
DMAA is still around and with the study showing its in geranium it may stick around for a bit.
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You are lucky. Unfortunately in Sweden it has been classified as hazardous/harmful substance and therefor forbidden to sell, import or possess. The penalty for breaking the law can give up to one year in prison.:omfg:
 
Patrick Arnold said:
DMAA is still around and with the study showing its in geranium it may stick around for a bit.
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Unfortunately, my experience with DMAA was almost identical to my experience with higenamine. The first time I tried a product containing DMAA, it was actually your AMP product back in 2006. That first time was great. But ever since then, I haven't felt a thing from taking any product containing DMAA. Apparently my receptors must downregulate really fast or something.
 
Kelt said:
You are lucky. Unfortunately in Sweden it has been classified as hazardous/harmful substance and therefor forbidden to sell, import or possess. The penalty for breaking the law can give up to one year in prison.:omfg:
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Do they still allow you to smoke cigarettes there? hmmmm
 
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