The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

boogyman said:
I though high intensity cardio like HIIT was a no no when doing IF?
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I am not 100% sure, but I think you are right. I believe Martin calls for low intensity steady state cardio.
 
hey guys just wondering when you're bulking if you stick to 3 day workouts or tune it up too 4 day workouts? cheers
 
gokix811 said:
Is there a reason behind this? I just want to make sure I am following it correctly. :)
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Again this is an assumption, but if you are training (cardio) fasted and trying to do High Intensity Intervals your body is going to want to use carbohydrates as an energy source instead of fat. If you haven't got any food in the tank there is no carb source to burn hence the body starts to cannibalize itself to keep running. I am sure there are Lean Gains and IF followers that do HIIT and have excellent results...in the end you have to do what is right for your body. Also it depends on how stable you are during fasted training. Myself, I have no problem training fasted what so ever where others might fall out after 30 minutes of training.
 
Dont remember the reason, I just remember reading it. Again I could be wrong, I would research it if I was you though.
 
gokix811 said:
Is there a reason behind this? I just want to make sure I am following it correctly. :)
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TurningGreen said:
Again this is an assumption, but if you are training (cardio) fasted and trying to do High Intensity Intervals your body is going to want to use carbohydrates as an energy source instead of fat. If you haven't got any food in the tank there is no carb source to burn hence the body starts to cannibalize itself to keep running. I am sure there are Lean Gains and IF followers that do HIIT and have excellent results...in the end you have to do what is right for your body. Also it depends on how stable you are during fasted training. Myself, I have no problem training fasted what so ever where others might fall out after 30 minutes of training.
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my guess would be that its because an HIIT day would be considered a workout day rather than an off day.
 
TurningGreen said:
Again this is an assumption, but if you are training (cardio) fasted and trying to do High Intensity Intervals your body is going to want to use carbohydrates as an energy source instead of fat. If you haven't got any food in the tank there is no carb source to burn hence the body starts to cannibalize itself to keep running. I am sure there are Lean Gains and IF followers that do HIIT and have excellent results...in the end you have to do what is right for your body. Also it depends on how stable you are during fasted training. Myself, I have no problem training fasted what so ever where others might fall out after 30 minutes of training.
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Ah, ok. You had me worried thinking one couldn't do HIIT at all with LG, but we're talking about that kind of cardio in a fasted state. Understood.
 
I was reading the LG website and he advocates LISS and to lift heavy. You are right.

I was lifting heavier (5x5) back in Jan/Feb. Along way the I read that lower sets/higher reps were better for fat loss. Since I am now on IF, do I switch back to 5x5? or keep it at 3x12?
 
Fat loss is dependant on calories, reps have very little or nothing to do with it. However, on a cut lower rep sets should help to better maintain or even gain strength.
 
mkretz said:
still though, people train fasted so some people will be doing HITT fasted, I have a few times
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Right, but still then it should be (for recovery purposes) treated as an "on" day
 
gokix811 said:
I was reading the LG website and he advocates LISS and to lift heavy. You are right.

I was lifting heavier (5x5) back in Jan/Feb. Along way the I read that lower sets/higher reps were better for fat loss. Since I am now on IF, do I switch back to 5x5? or keep it at 3x12?
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Well first of all weight loss is going to come from your diet,it doesn't matter if you do high reps/lows or whatever.That said it has been shown that lifting heavy 5x5 has a long term metabolic effect on the body that favours fat loss.

Another thing you want to remember is you dont want to be increasing the volume of your training when cutting weight as that only encourages the body to drop muscle.
 
ToNNNNyT said:
Well first of all weight loss is going to come from your diet,it doesn't matter if you do high reps/lows or whatever.That said it has been shown that lifting heavy 5x5 has a long term metabolic effect on the body that favours fat loss.

Another thing you want to remember is you dont want to be increasing the volume of your training when cutting weight as that only encourages the body to drop muscle.
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^^THIS.
 
inda11 said:
What happens if i can't meet my macros for the day?
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you explode into a ball of flame...

depends on which macro you miss and by how much. With protein, so long as you are hitting at least .7-.8g/lb of bodyweight, its not a big deal. With fats, if you are missing them, you run a risk of fats being too low, which can cause skin, hair and hormone problems. But if its just a single day, not a big deal. If its carbs and its a workout day, you risk maybe some worse overall recovery + soreness
 
im doing i righ now however my activiy level changes alot and im not too sure of my mainainence wo ive relaly jsut maintained lately
 
As far as the discussion of HIIT and LG goes... my God I can't hardly stand to do it anymore. In the past three attempts at what used to be nice and enjoyable HIIT, I now get terrible shooting cramps that blast right through my quadriceps. The kind that can cripple your workout. I'm not sure what the deal is. I drink water around the clock. stay up on my BCAAs, eat how and when I'm suppose to, meet my macros/cals, blah blah blah... I must be missing something out of my diet since going LG because I've never had cramping issues before.

I'm about to just go back to LISS.
 
DJBeanPole said:
As far as the discussion of HIIT and LG goes... my God I can't hardly stand to do it anymore. In the past three attempts at what used to be nice and enjoyable HIIT, I now get terrible shooting cramps that blast right through my quadriceps. The kind that can cripple your workout. I'm not sure what the deal is. I drink water around the clock. stay up on my BCAAs, eat how and when I'm suppose to, meet my macros/cals, blah blah blah... I must be missing something out of my diet since going LG because I've never had cramping issues before.

I'm about to just go back to LISS.
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This happened to me but i just realised i wasn't stretching enough or warming up. Now i do two quad stretches two hamstring stretches with one calf stretch. Then i will start with a walk for 1 minute then slowly get into a medium jog for 4 minutes. Jump off do the stretches all over again then do hiit. No pain. Just sweat
 
inda11 said:
This happened to me but i just realised i wasn't stretching enough or warming up. Now i do two quad stretches two hamstring stretches with one calf stretch. Then i will start with a walk for 1 minute then slowly get into a medium jog for 4 minutes. Jump off do the stretches all over again then do hiit. No pain. Just sweat
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Guess I'll try to do some more beforehand. Even did some foam rolling at my last go and although I got through the whole set the last sprint cycle was brutal :(! I miss you, HIIT!
 
boogyman said:
Like I said above, Martin advises against any type of high intensity cardio while on LG.
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Yea I just saw that. Going to make the switch back to LISS. The fiance will be happy. She enjoys going on runs together and finds HIIT to be... dumb. lol
 
I don't understand what is so terrible about HIIT. If you wanted couldn't you just do HIIT one day a week if you felt that it would benefit you (depending on your training goals) and just treat it as an on day? So what if Martin dissaproves. He also states on his website that he despises cardio, which could be why he prefers going on walks or jogs rather than hill sprints, etc. Am I in the wrong for saying this?
 
jswain34 said:
I don't understand what is so terrible about HIIT. If you wanted couldn't you just do HIIT one day a week if you felt that it would benefit you (depending on your training goals) and just treat it as an on day? So what if Martin dissaproves. He also states on his website that he despises cardio, which could be why he prefers going on walks or jogs rather than hill sprints, etc. Am I in the wrong for saying this?
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If u treat it as a workout day then your golden the reason your not suppose to do hitt on burn days is it would put you too high of a calorie defficiate and cause muscle waisting if im not mistaken. Ultimately if it works do it you dont have to do everything by textbook thats boring
 
Hi guys, looking for some insight on some symptoms I've been experiencing over the last few days while training fasted (w/use of BCAA) ... this is week 2 of IF for me. Day 1-3 on IF I had a small snack prior to working out and felt fine. My current schedule:

6:30 am - wake up
3 pm - bcaa prior/intra workout
5 pm - first big meal and PWO shake
9 pm - 2nd meal
From 10 pm ~ 3 pm the following day is my fasted state

Symptoms include onset of chronic nausea about 30 minutes after my first meal and continuing throughout the night, sudden but slight constant headaches, and trouble sleeping. When I try to sleep my chest feels heavy, like I can't seem to get a full breath in...especially when I lay on my side. It's not like heartburn... hard to explain. And no, not preggo, lol. It's 1:30 a.m. right now and I can't sleep at the moment. Important to note that I've split my meals into 2 large meals during my feeding window. No major changes in diet other than adding ~100-200 calories on my workout days. I have been taking multi-vit and fish oil pills first thing in the a.m. on an empty stomach as well. I'm wondering if that's a factor? Been feeling pretty miserable lately. Any thoughts?
 
EasyEJL said:
Is just a plain bcaa? What specifically is the post workout meal like?
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AI RecoverPro

1st meal:

PWO shake with water
8 oz chicken breast with side of mixed veggies in tomato sauce
2 Sweet potatoes

2nd meal:
8 oz ground chicken with 3-4 tablespoons of salsa
2% cheese slice
4 pieces low carb bread
2 plain greek yogurt with walden's calorie free strawberry syrup and palm full of crushed almonds
 
DJBeanPole said:
As far as the discussion of HIIT and LG goes... my God I can't hardly stand to do it anymore. In the past three attempts at what used to be nice and enjoyable HIIT, I now get terrible shooting cramps that blast right through my quadriceps. The kind that can cripple your workout. I'm not sure what the deal is. I drink water around the clock. stay up on my BCAAs, eat how and when I'm suppose to, meet my macros/cals, blah blah blah... I must be missing something out of my diet since going LG because I've never had cramping issues before.

I'm about to just go back to LISS.
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2nd on the stretching/warming up, but it's also important to make sure your sodium intake is matching your water intake. I had a similar problem with fasted HIIT: upped the water which didn't help, added stretching which helped slightly, and then added more sodium in addition to stretching and cramps disappeared.
 
rambofireball said:
2nd on the stretching/warming up, but it's also important to make sure your sodium intake is matching your water intake. I had a similar problem with fasted HIIT: upped the water which didn't help, added stretching which helped slightly, and then added more sodium in addition to stretching and cramps disappeared.
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Any tips on adding in the sodium without unbalancing the diet?
 
I know everyone is different, but when you guys are cutting whereabouts are your total calories? I am taking in 2300-2500 a day and haven't lost any weight yet. I am 5'9" 188 lbs ~13-14% bf. I am going to start adding steady state cardio on off days and see if that helps, but I just wanted to see where others were. So far I really do enjoy lean gains, just trying to find the right intake for my current goal.
 
gokix811 said:
AI RecoverPro

1st meal:

PWO shake with water
8 oz chicken breast with side of mixed veggies in tomato sauce
2 Sweet potatoes

2nd meal:
8 oz ground chicken with 3-4 tablespoons of salsa
2% cheese slice
4 pieces low carb bread
2 plain greek yogurt with walden's calorie free strawberry syrup and palm full of crushed almonds
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hmm the only thing that seems to stand out to me there is potentially the tomato sauce, or just the overall volume of food. have you tried subbing in some fruits or maybe even 100% fruit juice for at least one of the potatoes? that and overall that sounds like too little fat in your diet.
 
EasyEJL said:
hmm the only thing that seems to stand out to me there is potentially the tomato sauce, or just the overall volume of food. have you tried subbing in some fruits or maybe even 100% fruit juice for at least one of the potatoes? that and overall that sounds like too little fat in your diet.
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I can substitute the tomato sauce for salsa. It's not everyday that I have it, just that particular day. And I'll eat fruits like banana or blueberries when I have them in stock, cycling them on my carb days. The volume of food keeps me feeling full during my window, but maybe I would be better off splitting it up into smaller portions so I don't feel like puking after. Perhaps something in the BCAA isn't agreeing with me? Not sure. As for fats I try to keep it around ~40 - 50 grams. Would it be okay to shorten the fasting window? e.g., 14/10 or 12/12
 
DJBeanPole said:
Any tips on adding in the sodium without unbalancing the diet?
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Athlytes ATP by MST. God send for fasted training sodium and Krebs cycle replenishment
 
Vipersg123 said:
I know everyone is different, but when you guys are cutting whereabouts are your total calories? I am taking in 2300-2500 a day and haven't lost any weight yet. I am 5'9" 188 lbs ~13-14% bf. I am going to start adding steady state cardio on off days and see if that helps, but I just wanted to see where others were. So far I really do enjoy lean gains, just trying to find the right intake for my current goal.
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What are ur calories for ur burn days? I was close to ur stats when i started lg and followed 2500 workout days and 1500 burn days and im sitting 20 lbs lighter after 2 or 3 months
 
gokix811 said:
I can substitute the tomato sauce for salsa. It's not everyday that I have it, just that particular day. And I'll eat fruits like banana or blueberries when I have them in stock, cycling them on my carb days. The volume of food keeps me feeling full during my window, but maybe I would be better off splitting it up into smaller portions so I don't feel like puking after. Perhaps something in the BCAA isn't agreeing with me? Not sure. As for fats I try to keep it around ~40 - 50 grams. Would it be okay to shorten the fasting window? e.g., 14/10 or 12/12
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i'd start with a combination of breaking the food into 3 meals, and increasing the window to a 14/10. that should help a bit.I suppose it just didn't look like 40g of fat from what you had above, but that was just me eyeballing it.
 
live to lift said:
What are ur calories for ur burn days? I was close to ur stats when i started lg and followed 2500 workout days and 1500 burn days and im sitting 20 lbs lighter after 2 or 3 months
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Maybe this is where I am going wrong. On non-lifting days I take in a little less calories maybe 2200 and go lower carb higher pro/fat. Maybe I need to go a bit lower on those days? Also by burn days do you just mean lower calorie days or lower calorie in conjunction with cardio?
 
EasyEJL said:
i'd start with a combination of breaking the food into 3 meals, and increasing the window to a 14/10. that should help a bit.I suppose it just didn't look like 40g of fat from what you had above, but that was just me eyeballing it.
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Like most things I just to have to tweak it and see what works for me. I just thought it was abnormal that I was literally feeling sick to my stomach. Thanks for the input, JL :)
 
gokix811 said:
Like most things I just to have to tweak it and see what works for me. I just thought it was abnormal that I was literally feeling sick to my stomach. Thanks for the input, JL :)
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it definitely takes a bit of customizing to get right to where it works for you.
 
awesome thread, been checking it every day.

question is about amino consumption. on non weight training days i do walking in the morning. Should i be taking aminos every two hours like after a weight training session?

Is there any harm in general in having aminos present? I think my amino powder has sucralose so it should be zero calorie...
 
huggy77 said:
awesome thread, been checking it every day.

question is about amino consumption. on non weight training days i do walking in the morning. Should i be taking aminos every two hours like after a weight training session?

Is there any harm in general in having aminos present? I think my amino powder has sucralose so it should be zero calorie...
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I've been thinking this would make an excellent thread in itself-
 
huggy77 said:
awesome thread, been checking it every day.

question is about amino consumption. on non weight training days i do walking in the morning. Should i be taking aminos every two hours like after a weight training session?

Is there any harm in general in having aminos present? I think my amino powder has sucralose so it should be zero calorie...
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If you are just walking or doing low intensity cardo type stuff, there's no need to take BCAA's. Those only need to come into play if you are training fasted and not eating a meal until later in the day.
 
Vipersg123 said:
Maybe this is where I am going wrong. On non-lifting days I take in a little less calories maybe 2200 and go lower carb higher pro/fat. Maybe I need to go a bit lower on those days? Also by burn days do you just mean lower calorie days or lower calorie in conjunction with cardio?
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When doing lean gains following a cutting protocol you follow a -35% + 10% meaning on non workout days yo eat 35% below maintenance and on lifting days its 10% above maintance there is a huge thread on this not trying to be rude but have u even read it
 
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