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DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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Patrick Arnold said:
as ronald reagan once said doveryai, no proveryai

did you trust DS 100 percent when they assured you that superdrol had been tested and found to be very liver safe?
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nope, never cared about superdrol or any other PHs for that matters
but obviously I am following the whole thing because I am curious, curious to see IF craze gets banned,
and even why it gets banned (as in if it's actually harmful or just because some well played move..)

You kinda sound like you do know the product has something wrong tho'
 
AutoKal47 said:
nope, never cared about superdrol or any other PHs for that matters
but obviously I am following the whole thing because I am curious, curious to see IF craze gets banned,
and even why it gets banned (as in if it's actually harmful or just because some well played move..)

You kinda sound like you do know the product has something wrong tho'
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I dont know anything specifically about craze but i have seen this sort of scenario play out before with diet/energy products.

I have seen it play out before with erection supplements as well

And most times the company selling the product is as shocked as anyone, because the spiking and duping is being done on the raw material end (in china, where they wont get in trouble)
 
T-Bone said:
Hilarious! Craze is now number one at Nutraplanet!. Selling is just too damn easy on the forums.
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im sure when they put it to $25 a bottle, everyone hawked in and took advantage of it. stuff is legit, tho!
 
T-Bone said:
All the other products they have are great. Craze, I don't like though. I'd rather not feel like I'm on drugs when working out. To each his own though....
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its like 22 servings of cocaine... for the low low ;)
 
Tried a sample of craze, it was the most amazing energy and pump I ve had. It even beat anadrol for preworkout!
I did not crash, and slept as a baby a few hours later...but the level of effect with craze makes me kinda wonder...wtf. Did they put in this to make i so much better than everything else i ve tried/use....
Still waiting to get a tub or two...

Btw. How come ironmaglabs are still not targeted or taken down yet is beyond my imagination;-)
 
woodbear said:
Tried a sample of craze, it was the most amazing energy and pump I ve had. It even beat anadrol for preworkout!
I did not crash, and slept as a baby a few hours later...but the level of effect with craze makes me kinda wonder...wtf. Did they put in this to make i so much better than everything else i ve tried/use....
Still waiting to get a tub or two...

Btw. How come ironmaglabs are still not targeted or taken down yet is beyond my imagination;-)
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snitch
 
got home from work saw my craze was in decided to go to the gym instead of go out. Glad i did first time trying it and it gave me the most smooth energy with a feeling of extreme concentration. The thing is i felt to good, i have a generalized mild anxiety disorder nothing that needs meds and this is the only stim workout i tried that actually helped my anxiety lol. it was kinda similar to a small dose of instant release adderall but im not complaining. I will be buying more.

p.s. if only i knew who AutoKal was outside the fourms i wouldve saved a lot of money on supps. I feel like recompadrol, and although still to soon to be sure, craze, is the way to go.
 
try my supplement guys!!! STangBangerAdrol - the FDA is suing me and going to ban it, get it quick now while I put it on sale.

cha-ching - ha ha ha ha ha all the way to the bank.

well played DS... well played.
 
StangBanger said:
try my supplement guys!!! STangBangerAdrol - the FDA is suing me and going to ban it, get it quick now while I put it on sale.

cha-ching - ha ha ha ha ha all the way to the bank.

well played DS... well played.
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I doubt this is a marketing gimmick, though I'm sure they are enjoying the sales. As a company who was probably doing pretty good before they don't have much incentive to do something like this.
 
StangBanger said:
try my supplement guys!!! STangBangerAdrol - the FDA is suing me and going to ban it, get it quick now while I put it on sale.

cha-ching - ha ha ha ha ha all the way to the bank.

well played DS... well played.
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:toofunny:




I heard about the ban and bought more Flashover ... I must be doing it wrong
 
Geoforce said:
I doubt this is a marketing gimmick, though I'm sure they are enjoying the sales. As a company who was probably doing pretty good before they don't have much incentive to do something like this.
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I have just 1 question then. Why is the poster of this NEWS, a new user with a SINGLE post.

NUFF SAID.

like I said... well played DS, well played.

Craze isnt going anywhere other than the top sales spot.

I am not hating. Great marketing move on DS's part. People love Craze and now they own a **** ton of it.
 
Because it's probably a HATER competitor kicking them while they are down and economizing off the news.

This would be the dumbest supplement-STAGED ploy ever.

StangBanger said:
I have just 1 question then. Why is the poster of this NEWS, a new user with a SINGLE post.

NUFF SAID.

like I said... well played DS, well played.

Craze isnt going anywhere other than the top sales spot.

I am not hating. Great marketing move on DS's part. People love Craze and now they own a **** ton of it.
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StangBanger said:
I have just 1 question then. Why is the poster of this NEWS, a new user with a SINGLE post.

NUFF SAID.

like I said... well played DS, well played.

Craze isnt going anywhere other than the top sales spot.

I am not hating. Great marketing move on DS's part. People love Craze and now they own a **** ton of it.
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You really think an established company who had products with great reviews like Triazole, Activate Extreme, Lean Extreme, Craze, would risk becoming known as an untrustworthy company by trying to spark short term sales with a fake lawsuit?

Doesn't seem to make much sense to me at all. They would be much better off with the building positive word of mouth Craze had going.

I for one was very interested in giving Craze a go and am know holding off (even if its cheap) to see what this is all about. Can't be too careful with what you're putting into the body.
 
Ya I doubt they did this themselves. They were having great word of mouth reviews. Plus I am sure some stores wouldn't want the added negative attention.
 
Geoforce said:
You really think an established company who had products with great reviews like Triazole, Activate Extreme, Lean Extreme, Craze, would risk becoming known as an untrustworthy company by trying to spark short term sales with a fake lawsuit?
.
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why even acknowledge that retarded theory. jeezus
 
hey I am just speculating (like EVERYONE else in this thread) about possibilities is all...

I personally dont care!

And yes a company would do it for short term sales especially when they turn around and say " well the lawsuit was frivolous, we have been exonerated" and everyone then STILL loves DS and buys there stuff... so that = win, win for them.

not saying they did, and really dont care.
 
the lawsuit is real. DS wouldnt sue themselves in hopes of more sales. retarded theory is retarded.
 
some other store is having a buy 2 get 1 free deal, right after nutraplanet had theirs. $23.33/ea... fark, guess im stocking up some more. i cant even help myself :(
 
Somebody 'splain this to me ...

Okay ... the lawyers in this thread have already speculated that the formula has been mass spec'd by someone (FDA?) and that is why the lawsuit has been filed ... because an analog of amphetamine has been found in it.

Really? So do tell ... the FDA is holding, in their hot little hands, a mass spec that says CRAZE has SPEED in it ... and they haven't ordered an immediate "cease and desist" on it's sale? Meaning, of course - that the FDA is allowing THOUSANDS of ignorant body builders (we're kids, you know - incapable of making decisions on our own) ... allowing thousands of bodybuilders to continue to endanger their health?

That doesn't add up.

I think this is just more bull**** from lawyers and the FDA.

**** lawyers - **** the FDA. Yeah - I know some people who read this are lawyers - sorry man, but I'd rather have a sister working in a brothel than a brother as a lawyer. TOO MANY LAWYERS. They are EVERYWHERE and they **** things up in a seriously horrendous way. Even when I was in the military in the Afghan and Iraq war - had to get permission from a lawyer somewhere in the rear (where he was safe and sound) just to fire on a hostile target. Of course - the guys shooting at ME didn't have to consult lawyers.

**** Lawyers.
 
StangBanger said:
I have just 1 question then. Why is the poster of this NEWS, a new user with a SINGLE post.

NUFF SAID.

like I said... well played DS, well played.

Craze isnt going anywhere other than the top sales spot.

I am not hating. Great marketing move on DS's part. People love Craze and now they own a **** ton of it.
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Lol to think DS did this themselves is comical. You must not have read the entire thread as this supposidly is the same guy that sued USPLabs.
 
HondaV65 said:
Somebody 'splain this to me ...

Okay ... the lawyers in this thread have already speculated that the formula has been mass spec'd by someone (FDA?) and that is why the lawsuit has been filed ... because an analog of amphetamine has been found in it.

Really? So do tell ... the FDA is holding, in their hot little hands, a mass spec that says CRAZE has SPEED in it ... and they haven't ordered an immediate "cease and desist" on it's sale? Meaning, of course - that the FDA is allowing THOUSANDS of ignorant body builders (we're kids, you know - incapable of making decisions on our own) ... allowing thousands of bodybuilders to continue to endanger their health?

That doesn't add up.

I think this is just more bull**** from lawyers and the FDA.

**** lawyers - **** the FDA. Yeah - I know some people who read this are lawyers - sorry man, but I'd rather have a sister working in a brothel than a brother as a lawyer. TOO MANY LAWYERS. They are EVERYWHERE and they **** things up in a seriously horrendous way. Even when I was in the military in the Afghan and Iraq war - had to get permission from a lawyer somewhere in the rear (where he was safe and sound) just to fire on a hostile target. Of course - the guys shooting at ME didn't have to consult lawyers.

**** Lawyers.
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Where did they say speed was in the product? Also this isnt the FDA, this is the same guy that sued usplabs.
 
freezito said:
did the guy who sued usplabs win?
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Lawsuit in progress. He's won payouts from BSN before (false marketing) but most lawsuits are still open.

We have no real reason to believe the FDA is believed, so don't go ****ting on the FDA before anyone knows if they are "sitting" on test results.
 
HondaV65 said:
**** lawyers - **** the FDA. Yeah - I know some people who read this are lawyers - sorry man, but I'd rather have a sister working in a brothel than a brother as a lawyer. TOO MANY LAWYERS. They are EVERYWHERE and they **** things up in a seriously horrendous way. Even when I was in the military in the Afghan and Iraq war - had to get permission from a lawyer somewhere in the rear (where he was safe and sound) just to fire on a hostile target. Of course - the guys shooting at ME didn't have to consult lawyers.

**** Lawyers.
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Since when does your master sarge = lawyer? You must have been in two different wars than I.

Let's not harp on the lawyers.. trust me.. you will need one some day. It is the people that use the lawyers in a scavy way.
 
HondaV65 said:
Somebody 'splain this to me ...

Okay ... the lawyers in this thread have already speculated that the formula has been mass spec'd by someone (FDA?) and that is why the lawsuit has been filed ... because an analog of amphetamine has been found in it.

Really? So do tell ... the FDA is holding, in their hot little hands, a mass spec that says CRAZE has SPEED in it ... and they haven't ordered an immediate "cease and desist" on it's sale? Meaning, of course - that the FDA is allowing THOUSANDS of ignorant body builders (we're kids, you know - incapable of making decisions on our own) ... allowing thousands of bodybuilders to continue to endanger their health?

That doesn't add up.

I think this is just more bull**** from lawyers and the FDA.

**** lawyers - **** the FDA. Yeah - I know some people who read this are lawyers - sorry man, but I'd rather have a sister working in a brothel than a brother as a lawyer. TOO MANY LAWYERS. They are EVERYWHERE and they **** things up in a seriously horrendous way. Even when I was in the military in the Afghan and Iraq war - had to get permission from a lawyer somewhere in the rear (where he was safe and sound) just to fire on a hostile target. Of course - the guys shooting at ME didn't have to consult lawyers.

**** Lawyers.
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Haha, cool your jets man or cut back on the uppers. Life is too short. Didn't say FDA spun it, I said any legit lawfirm would have done due diligence before filing including mass spec. If not and they are wrong, they will be writing checks for costs incurred by both sides.
 
The DMAA lawsuit against USPLabs basically tries to make the claim that DMAA is too close to amphetamine so I wouldn't be so sure that this firm knows what it is doing.
 
VaughnTrue said:
the lawsuit is real. DS wouldnt sue themselves in hopes of more sales. retarded theory is retarded.
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u cant sue yourself for fun. well you can make anything up but you cant get a reputable law firm to go along with such a game and generate actual court documents as have been displayed for this case.

not only is it retarded but its uber-retarded
 
HondaV65 said:
Somebody 'splain this to me ...

Okay ... the lawyers in this thread have already speculated that the formula has been mass spec'd by someone (FDA?) and that is why the lawsuit has been filed ... because an analog of amphetamine has been found in it.

Really? So do tell ... the FDA is holding, in their hot little hands, a mass spec that says CRAZE has SPEED in it ... and they haven't ordered an immediate "cease and desist" on it's sale? Meaning, of course - that the FDA is allowing THOUSANDS of ignorant body builders (we're kids, you know - incapable of making decisions on our own) ... allowing thousands of bodybuilders to continue to endanger their health?s.
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If the FDA had such a thing then you would not know about it. Any speculation that they have such a thing would be mere speculation. And the FDA would NOT be working hand in hand with a civil attorney so just forget about that theory

If they did have a thing then they would not immediately proceed with a raid or a cease and desist letter. They would investigate and build a case and keep it under wraps until they are ready to act
 
D3Baseball said:
The DMAA lawsuit against USPLabs basically tries to make the claim that DMAA is too close to amphetamine so I wouldn't be so sure that this firm knows what it is doing.
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that is mentioned in the lawsuit but it is not the basis of the lawsuit. the basis i think was that they deceived customers into thinking they were buying a natural product when in fact it was synthetic (lame if you ask me)
 
Patrick Arnold said:
If the FDA had such a thing then you would not know about it. Any speculation that they have such a thing would be mere speculation. And the FDA would NOT be working hand in hand with a civil attorney so just forget about that theoryIf they did have a thing then they would not immediately proceed with a raid or a cease and desist letter. They would investigate and build a case and keep it under wraps until they are ready to act
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This. Agree completely. FDA usually remains autonomous from civil litigation. . . Unless maybe there is a close relationship between the attorney and the investigator. The FDA is a government entity and, as such, perhaps moves pretty slowly unless there is an imminent threat of bodily harm to the public at large. They also sometimes have larger agendas and perhaps could use cases like this to advance their larger agendas. Who knows with FDA.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
u cant sue yourself for fun. well you can make anything up but you cant get a reputable law firm to go along with such a game and generate actual court documents as have been displayed for this case.

not only is it retarded but its uber-retarded
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LOL exactly. "uber" is the correct prefix here, I agree.


Class action lawsuits like these are terrible. They go after any/all companies who are prospering, and they include draft guidance nonsense that hasn't become law yet, to make the companies look bad.


NTG = uber-retarded.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
u cant sue yourself for fun. well you can make anything up but you cant get a reputable law firm to go along with such a game and generate actual court documents as have been displayed for this case.

not only is it retarded but its uber-retarded
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By far the most intelligent thing said in this thread.
 
Okay - I was going off the OP's first post where he states that "FDA action is immenent". If the FDA isn't involved then, cool.

But when it comes to these "prohibitionist" laws against certain substances - I don't understand why adults can't see that the government is assigning them the status of a little child. Anyone who has a kid has probably given them "rules" to live by ... such as your kid isn't allowed to drink alcohol, or eat too much candy, or play ball in the house. We do this to protect kids from their lack of knowledge and wisdom. Bill Cosby used to refer to kids as "brain damaged people".

When the government says you can't have a certain supplement ... or smoke a joint ... they're assigning you a "rule" just as you would your child - because they don't think you are capable of making good decisions about your health.

That ought to be offensive to people. I don't care what the prohibitionist rule is - it ought to offend adult human beings and the pervs who push these laws ought to voted out of office.

Why aren't they?
 
HondaV65 said:
Okay - I was going off the OP's first post where he states that "FDA action is immenent". If the FDA isn't involved then, cool.

But when it comes to these "prohibitionist" laws against certain substances - I don't understand why adults can't see that the government is assigning them the status of a little child. Anyone who has a kid has probably given them "rules" to live by ... such as your kid isn't allowed to drink alcohol, or eat too much candy, or play ball in the house. We do this to protect kids from their lack of knowledge and wisdom. Bill Cosby used to refer to kids as "brain damaged people".

When the government says you can't have a certain supplement ... or smoke a joint ... they're assigning you a "rule" just as you would your child - because they don't think you are capable of making good decisions about your health.

That ought to be offensive to people. I don't care what the prohibitionist rule is - it ought to offend adult human beings and the pervs who push these laws ought to voted out of office.

Why aren't they?
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I agree with pretty much everything said here except for one thing: Whats to keep supplement companies from misleading you or lying about what is on labels? Even if you are supremely knowledgeable about ingredients things like proprietary blends keep someone from knowing the amounts of the product they are consuming. If a company has a product that doesn't contain what they say it does I have no problem with them getting in trouble.

For the rest of it I agree. People should be allowed to make the decisions they want.
 
HondaV65 said:
Okay - I was going off the OP's first post where he states that "FDA action is immenent". If the FDA isn't involved then, cool.

But when it comes to these "prohibitionist" laws against certain substances - I don't understand why adults can't see that the government is assigning them the status of a little child. Anyone who has a kid has probably given them "rules" to live by ... such as your kid isn't allowed to drink alcohol, or eat too much candy, or play ball in the house. We do this to protect kids from their lack of knowledge and wisdom. Bill Cosby used to refer to kids as "brain damaged people".

When the government says you can't have a certain supplement ... or smoke a joint ... they're assigning you a "rule" just as you would your child - because they don't think you are capable of making good decisions about your health.

That ought to be offensive to people. I don't care what the prohibitionist rule is - it ought to offend adult human beings and the pervs who push these laws ought to voted out of office.

Why aren't they?
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when the rules involve commerce in said substances then i can understand. any rule which specifically states its illegal for an individual to use those substances though I think its wrong.

anyway, this is sort of getting off the subject. the subject here involves alleged mislabeling of a supplement first and foremost
 
Geoforce said:
I agree with pretty much everything said here except for one thing: Whats to keep supplement companies from misleading you or lying about what is on labels? Even if you are supremely knowledgeable about ingredients things like proprietary blends keep someone from knowing the amounts of the product they are consuming. If a company has a product that doesn't contain what they say it does I have no problem with them getting in trouble.
QUOTE]

I don't have a problem with a company that LIES about what's in it's product gettng into trouble. I might be behind the curve here - and this thread is a bit jacked up because I read somewhere in it that DS was being accused of inserting an analog of amphetemine into the product. Sure - I have a problem with a company lying about something like that but I don't have a problem with a company putting amphetemine into a product as long as they state so on the label of ingredients. They can put gasoline in it for all I care - as long as it's labelled so I know to stay away from it.

I don't a government telling me that a pre-workout with gasoline in it might be a bad idea for me personally.

People ought to be able to make up their own mind on whether or not they want to use a product with a certain ingredient.
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HondaV65 said:
Geoforce said:
I

I don't have a problem with a company that LIES about what's in it's product gettng into trouble. I might be behind the curve here - and this thread is a bit jacked up because I read somewhere in it that DS was being accused of inserting an analog of amphetemine into the product. Sure - I have a problem with a company lying about something like that but I don't have a problem with a company putting amphetemine into a product as long as they state so on the label of ingredients. They can put gasoline in it for all I care - as long as it's labelled so I know to stay away from it.

I don't a government telling me that a pre-workout with gasoline in it might be a bad idea for me personally.

People ought to be able to make up their own mind on whether or not they want to use a product with a certain ingredient.
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your scenario would work fine if the world were full of stable, intelligent, and well informed consumers
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I think it may be unfair to assume perfect information for ANY consumer. I would be knowledgeable enough to stay safe when it comes to supplement buying, but many wouldn't. Just like I wouldn't know anything about buying audio equipment or siding for my house, etc. this is a very specialized sort of knowledge and the protections are meant to protect you from being taken advantage of because you just can't learn everything. I think some stuff could/should be reintroduced to the market with some caveats (age restriction, maybe some acknowledgement of safety risk) but the way it used to be was bound to blow up in our faces. People could buy a PH and based on the purchase alone (and of course, the salesman selling it) the buyer would never know to do research, buy PCT, etc. Do you always ask your car mechanic exactly what part or what brand, etc he used to fix your car? Well you might think the salesman at G N C would be trustworthy in much the same way. But that's not the way it is.
 
HondaV65 said:
Okay - I was going off the OP's first post where he states that "FDA action is immenent". If the FDA isn't involved then, cool.

But when it comes to these "prohibitionist" laws against certain substances - I don't understand why adults can't see that the government is assigning them the status of a little child. Anyone who has a kid has probably given them "rules" to live by ... such as your kid isn't allowed to drink alcohol, or eat too much candy, or play ball in the house. We do this to protect kids from their lack of knowledge and wisdom. Bill Cosby used to refer to kids as "brain damaged people".

When the government says you can't have a certain supplement ... or smoke a joint ... they're assigning you a "rule" just as you would your child - because they don't think you are capable of making good decisions about your health.

That ought to be offensive to people. I don't care what the prohibitionist rule is - it ought to offend adult human beings and the pervs who push these laws ought to voted out of office.

Why aren't they?
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Yep, Republicans and right wing Christians want to dictate how we live our lives. If you know anything about law, you certainly know how very basic and fundamental rights in this country were quickly eroded by Bush and his appointments to the Supreme Court. The average individual has absolutely no idea the impact GWB and his regime had on this country predicated upon fear and imposing Christian norms on those heathens who believe they should have the power to do with their body as they please. Privacy rights are gone. Government intrusion into our homes, offices and life is wide open now. This mentality bleeds over into all areas of life including what substances we should put in our bodies. Thank big Pharma partly for this, but even more us the mentality that pervades the moral right of their belief that people are basically idiots and need to be told how to live, what to place in their bodies and what to do with their bodies.
 
Angelbolic said:
The basis is threefold. First they state they have reason to believe the product contains amphetamine. Second they claim Dendrobex and Citramine are not dietary ingredients. They also states it's a drug because the product claims to affect the structure or function of the body. Third, they claim that even if these two ingredients (aside from amphetamine) are not a drug, they are certainly new dietary ingredients and DS should have submitted a NDI notification. As a final note they state they have reason to believe Craze does not meet current GMP regulations.

I don't understand how anyone can be against this lawsuit. These are serious allegations and deserve proper attention.
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I think he is referring to the DMAA lawsuit here.
 
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