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come up with the best "non pump" endurance formula!

ScienceGuided

Active member
Endurance and strength,non pump.

one specific product,1-2 ,,individual bulk caps/powders,etc etc.. whatever and however much you want.


go.
 
Beta-alanine 2500mg
Creapure 5g
Betaine Anhydrous 2500mg
L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate 2000mg
Caffeine 200mg
1,3-dimethylamylamine 50mg

Wadup
 
Jonbero said:
Beta-alanine 2500mg
Creapure 5g
Betaine Anhydrous 2500mg
L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate 2000mg
Caffeine 200mg
1,3-dimethylamylamine 50mg

Wadup
Click to expand...


doesn't look to bad to me! def dropping the dmaa,not sure if I want caff or at least that high.....
 
ScienceGuided said:
doesn't look to bad to me! def dropping the dmaa,not sure if I want caff or at least that high.....
Click to expand...

I really like my stimulants :D

But yeah some people don't take them as well as others, I feel nothing from 100mg of Caffeine
 
Jonbero said:
I really like my stimulants :D

But yeah some people don't take them as well as others, I feel nothing from 100mg of Caffeine
Click to expand...

don't get me wrong,I have a very high tolerance and love stims. Just for what im thinking,Im looking in a different direction... when I say endurance,I don't mean 45 min of cardio. Im talking some hardcore endurance....
 
ScienceGuided said:
don't get me wrong,I have a very high tolerance and love stims. Just for what im thinking,Im looking in a different direction... when I say endurance,I don't mean 45 min of cardio. Im talking some hardcore endurance....
Click to expand...

Hmm

Ok I'm thinking

BCAA's 10g (4-1-1 or 8-1-1)

Beta-alanine 2500mg
Creapure 5g
Betaine Anhydrous 2500mg
L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate 2g
Taurine 2g
Citrulline Malate 2g
 
Jonbero said:
Hmm

Ok I'm thinking

BCAA's 10g (4-1-1 or 8-1-1)

Beta-alanine 2500mg
Creapure 5g
Betaine Anhydrous 2500mg
L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate 2g
Taurine 2g
Citrulline Malate 2g
Click to expand...

looks even better.... will start throwing out an idea or two of my own...

might go with creapure or MCC,that I know for sure.
 
VaughnTrue said:
Compete will be out soon. That is all you will need :D
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I have a feeling iForce is going to just totally rectify every supplement issue may have with total coverage. 6-7 years down the road...only one brand left...iForce haha!
 
Of everything listed in this thread (and that's all I'll comment on :D), Beta-alanine, LCLT, high-dosed taurine, and citrulline malate are all winners. The endurance benefits of citrulline far outweigh any pumps you may get, but if you are that worried about pumps, simply supplement pure malic acid without the citrulline.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Of everything listed in this thread (and that's all I'll comment on :D), Beta-alanine, LCLT, high-dosed taurine, and citrulline malate are all winners. The endurance benefits of citrulline far outweigh any pumps you may get, but if you are that worried about pumps, simply supplement pure malic acid without the citrulline.
Click to expand...

was hoping I could get you involved in this. Exactly what I was thinking,yes that is a concern of mine.

had a few more ideas too.....
 
Ribose
Vitargo
Magesium, Sodium and Potassium
 
i keep thinking about that (was it Navy SEAL) article about how creatine was detrimental for anything endurance based
 
Bolanrox said:
i keep thinking about that (was it Navy SEAL) article about how creatine was detrimental for anything endurance based
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I find MCC works very well for not only endurance,but keeping strength and muscle mass high!
 
RPM :) GSE, L-Arginine, Caffeine, Naringin, Theobromine, and Cocoa- works great for endurance work, and has been around forever:
J Strength Cond Res. 2010 May;24(5):1306-12.
[h=1]Effects of arginine-based supplements on the physical working capacity at the fatigue threshold.[/h]Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed.
[h=3]Source[/h]Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Nutrition and Health Sciences, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, Lincoln, Nebraska, USA. [email protected]

[h=3]Abstract[/h]The purpose of the present study was to examine the effects of daily oral administration of arginine-based supplements for 4 weeks on the physical working capacity at the fatigue threshold (PWCFT). The PWCFT test is an electromyographic (EMG) procedure for estimating the highest power output that can be maintained without neuromuscular evidence of fatigue. The study used a double-blind, placebo-controlled design. Fifty college-aged men (mean age +/- SD = 23.9 +/- 3.0) were randomized into 1 of 3 groups: (a) placebo (n = 19); (b) 1.5 g arginine (n = 14); or (c) 3.0 g arginine (n = 17). The placebo was microcrystalline cellulose. The 1.5-g arginine group ingested 1.5 g of arginine and 300 mg of grape seed extract, whereas the 3.0 g arginine group ingested 3.0 g of arginine and 300 mg of grape seed extract. All subjects performed an incremental test to exhaustion on a cycle ergometer to determine their PWCFT before supplementation (PRE) and after 4 weeks of supplementation (POST). Surface EMG signals were recorded from the vastus lateralis using a bipolar electrode arrangement during the incremental tests for the determination of the PRE and POST supplementation PWCFT values. There were significant mean increases (PRE to POST) in PWCFT for the 1.5 g (22.4%) and 3.0 g (18.8%) supplement groups, but no change for the placebo group (-1.6%). These findings supported the use of arginine-based supplements, at the dosages examined in the present investigation, as an ergogenic aid for untrained individuals.
 
Hemavol is a good endurance formula.
 
Strong nitpicking of arginine studies lol. Want me to post the vast majority that conflict that one study (in trained individuals, I might add)?

Naringin won't enhance performance (again, check the majority of the studies and the methodology).

Theobromine/Cocoa...eh. Nothing caffeine can't do really.

I do agree with caffeine and GSE...good choices.

Ribose won't enhance endurance.

Electrolytes won't directly enhance endurance.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Strong nitpicking of arginine studies lol. Want me to post the vast majority that conflict that one study (in trained individuals, I might add)?

Naringin won't enhance performance (again, check the majority of the studies and the methodology).

Theobromine/Cocoa...eh. Nothing caffeine can't do really.

I do agree with caffeine and GSE...good choices.

Ribose won't enhance endurance.

Electrolytes won't directly enhance endurance.
Click to expand...

well I don't want any agmatine,arginine,etc... Im not sure if im being clear perhaps lol.... agreed 200mg of sns caff works as good as it all!

for a few reasons( non endurance related) im thinking electrolytes will be in there one way or another....
 
i remember talking about this with coop a while back.......i understand not wanting a "pump" product, but he made a solid argument for hemavol being one of the best endurance formula's available ;)

cit-mal for vasoregulatory function, norvaline to amplify the cit-mal, agmatine for CNOS expression......and then GMS works really well in an endurance situations

going off of memory here, hopefully he can comment more on it.
 
baldwanus said:
i remember talking about this with coop a while back.......i understand not wanting a "pump" product, but he made a solid argument for hemavol being one of the best endurance formula's available ;)

cit-mal for vasoregulatory function, norvaline to amplify the cit-mal, agmatine for CNOS expression......and then GMS works really well in an endurance situations

going off of memory here, hopefully he can comment more on it.
Click to expand...

Yep, you nailed it pretty much. Hemavol and MAN Body Octane (stim-free) are two A+ endurance formulas.
 
If we are talking pure endurance and non stim. I would say beta alanine and Drive. The cordyceps really increase my endurance in a way other endurance based products haven't before. Plus the added test boosting and thyroid stimulation really helps with leaning out.
 
I don't mind stims here and there for this purpose,would prefer to leave it alone though.

BA is def in the picture,playing around with doses and timing.
 
ScienceGuided said:
I don't mind stims here and there for this purpose,would prefer to leave it alone though.

BA is def in the picture,playing around with doses and timing.
Click to expand...

In that case I would highly suggest Drive or cordygen. Both excellent non stim endurance products.
 
Jonbero said:
Hmm

Ok I'm thinking

BCAA's 10g (4-1-1 or 8-1-1)

Beta-alanine 2500mg
Creapure 5g
Betaine Anhydrous 2500mg
L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate 2g
Taurine 2g
Citrulline Malate 2g
Click to expand...
Def not a high leucine BCAA . At least valine (and maybe isoleucine) does great for booth energy and endurance. Leucine is overlooked. Otherwise it looks good.

Jonbero said:
Ribose
Vitargo
Magesium, Sodium and Potassium
Click to expand...
Ribose have vasodilatory properties .
 
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