VaughnTrue
Well-known member
^^^^^
Do you use prohormones? steroids? test boosters? What are you using for cholesterol?
- Thread starter VaughnTrue
- Start date
antihero
Well-known member
Who cares what we use, I've been waiting to see what you guys have up your sleeve for this. Is it finally time?
antihero
Well-known member
Heart help is out
Available at nutra now.
I didn't know it was already out. Looks like I'll be picking two up with my next order.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
haha it's out...
I was really just hoping to show people how Heart Help compares to what they currently take...
I will put $500 of my own cash up against any other Cholesterol/heart health product on the market
I was really just hoping to show people how Heart Help compares to what they currently take...
I will put $500 of my own cash up against any other Cholesterol/heart health product on the market
antihero
Well-known member
No need, at least for me. I do something different every cycle in terms of cholesterol. I'm constantly tweaking and changing and figuring out how things works for me to come up with the most effective combination of ingredients, etc for myself. Been looking forward to this one for a while now.
heavylifter33
Well-known member
I don't take anything, am i doing it wrong?
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
Actually,
even those people who don't have high cholesterol can benefit from Heart-Help.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
While its MOA's do not directly reduce BP, by reducing cholesterol, your heart won't have to pump as hard, thus reducing BP
criticalbench
Legend
Depends, do you regularly get your cholesterol checked?
My cholesterol sky rockets with even mild hormones.. but then again I eat tons of red meat!
madchemist
Banned
No.
heavylifter33
Well-known member
I shall check it out.
I've never had my cholesterol checked, however no one in my family has ever had a cholesterol issue. Next cycle i should probably get it checked pre, intra, and post. I'll use this as a reminder
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
How about putting $500 up to show us some solid evidence between total cholesterol and CVD?
Inhibiting the natural production of cholesterol in our body is not a good thing
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
So you're saying that inhibiting the hmg-coa reductase enzyme is a bad thing?
That's the exact same way the most popular Rx drugs work.
Edit: on top of that, the ingredient has been proven in adult humans to lower cholesterol, increase HDL, decrease LDL, decrease triglycerides, and decrease blood sugar, Lol are you joking here?
That's the exact same way the most popular Rx drugs work.
Edit: on top of that, the ingredient has been proven in adult humans to lower cholesterol, increase HDL, decrease LDL, decrease triglycerides, and decrease blood sugar, Lol are you joking here?
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
Krill oil is good stuff. The two would be a great pair. I'm just using fish oil + heart help right now.
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
Send me some....I get my bloodwork done every 6 months and my HDL has been within the same value give or take 2 units for 2.5 years. I am getting it done at the end of Feb
jbryand101b
Banned
good ol fashioned niacin is great for cholesterol.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
Yes
I dislike statins as well
lowering cholesterol isn't always a good thing
DGA3
Member
I'll give it a try.
Last time I had bloodwork done, my LDL was in the 160's - way too high.
On the positive side, my HLD was also extremely high, and my Triglycerides were next to nothing.
I'd like to get the LDL down, of course, so "Heart Health" might be just what I'm looking for.
On a side note - even though my overall cholesterol was high, some have told me that it's the ratio of good to bad that is more important, as opposed to the sum of adding the two numbers together. If that's the case, I'm in good shape.
However, it can't hurt to get that LDL level down some - right?
Last time I had bloodwork done, my LDL was in the 160's - way too high.
On the positive side, my HLD was also extremely high, and my Triglycerides were next to nothing.
I'd like to get the LDL down, of course, so "Heart Health" might be just what I'm looking for.
On a side note - even though my overall cholesterol was high, some have told me that it's the ratio of good to bad that is more important, as opposed to the sum of adding the two numbers together. If that's the case, I'm in good shape.
However, it can't hurt to get that LDL level down some - right?
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
Yes...drinking water isn't always a good thing either though
...The study showed zero side effects, and significant improvements in every user. Obviously lowering your cholesterol if you are at healthy ratios/levels is not advisable.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
In my opinion, the ratio is what matters most. Thats why Heart Help shines because it simultaneously raises HDL while lowering LDL, thus making the ratio better and better.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
Yes...drinking water isn't always a good thing either though
How is this relevant?
Again, do you have any evidence that shows cholesterol to be a causative factor for CVD?
Also let me be clear, this is in no way a criticism of your company's product but at the idea that people need to lower their cholesterol in order to be healthy.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
No, the type of LDL is what matters and inhibiting the hmg-coa reductase enzyme will not lower the right type. Yes it lowers total cholesterol but recent research (Invalid Link Removed) has shown the use of statins (which work by inhibiting the hmg-coa reductase enzyme) does not lower small dense LDL, which is the one that is linked to inflammation (which is what raises CVD risk, not cholesterol). So while a statin will lower total cholesterol and will result in drops of LDL and even sdLDL it also changes the ratio of sdLDL and the larger LDLs, which is not good.
Again, inhibiting the natural production of cholesterol in our body is not a good thing, especially when our bodies have an natural self-regulating system. What happens when the body tries to produce the necessary amount of cholesterol? What happens when adequate levels of cholesterol are not available for hormone production? Or what happens to the parts of our body that needs cholesterol?
Cholesterol is not a bad thing.
Inflammation is.
Statins do not effectively decrease sdLDL which is the one that oxidizes and causes the inflammation which is what results in higher CVD risk.
If your goal is to lower your CVD risk then your goal should be to reduce inflamation
itzDodge
Official Genomyx Wizard
Not always a bad thing, bust those out at 4 am when bitches need to get out of your house
Partys over pills
DGA3
Member
So for someone like me, what is an effective remedy?
Or, with my high levels of "good" cholesterol and low triglycerides, am I ok?
Suggestions?
heebs10
Well-known member
statins are effective in reducing inflammation. many many studies have shown significant reduction of CRP levels with statin use.
charley
Member
I'm trying the 'anabolic diet' ....it's supposed to cut fat and lower cholesterol....raise hdl's and lower ldl's ....it's a high fat..red meat diet...
....I'm in day 3...but hope this will work......if it works I keep my test levels and my muscle mass.............
.........charley
[h=2][/h]
....I'm in day 3...but hope this will work......if it works I keep my test levels and my muscle mass.............
.........charley
[h=2][/h]
schwellington
Well-known member
My total cholesterol is 386 LDL 298 Hdl 11 my doc was like o fock (I was and had been on epi for 8weeks) didn't tell him of course he gave me zocor now of this could do the same thing I would love it only thing is I'm in college an I have no room in budget :/
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
thats the diet where you eat only protein and fats all week but can add carbs on the weekends right? I still have that book around here somewhere....kind of like atkins but more geared for the bodybuilder.....
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
yep exactly.....all those types of diets recommend less than 30 grams of carbs M-F and only protein/fat basically.....then you can eat carbs as advised on the weekends, maybe all you can eat carbs or a prescribed amount each day. same shyt different author/diet name.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
.....matter of fact, now that I think of it....I'm gonna "create" a high fat/high protein weekday diet with carbs on the weekend and market it...just gotta come up with a catchy name.....
criticalbench
Legend
How is this relevant?
Again, do you have any evidence that shows cholesterol to be a causative factor for CVD?
Also let me be clear, this is in no way a criticism of your company's product but at the idea that people need to lower their cholesterol in order to be healthy.
With the term cvd, are you referring to cardiovascular disease? If so, are you referring to the new medical literature stating that high cholesterol does not increase your risk for heart disease? If so, I use to work on a cardiac floor in a very large, magnet hospital and attended one of the grand round conferences lead by some of the top cardiologists on the east coast and they were discussing this. They stated many reasons why elevated cholesterol above the normal range is bad and should be lowered, but also were providing evidence that high cholesterol above the norm didn't increase the risk of cvd. I didn't really pay attention all to well though, it was right after one of my contest preps ended, so I just went for the free food and because I got paid to sit there haha.. looking back now, I should have taken notes!
Regardless, elevated ldl or decreased hdl outside of the recommended range is never a good thing, and should be managed via diet and exercise first, then supplements, than pharmacologically.
Mike
charley
Member
Warbirds.............
Benefits of The Anabolic Diet. The Anabolic Diet is a high protein, high fat diet which involves carbs cycling. Some things you can expect:
How The Anabolic Diet Works. The Anabolic Diet works whatever your gender or age. And like any diet, it works best coupled with Invalid Link Removed. Here's how your week looks like when you eat the Anabolic Diet way:
Benefits of The Anabolic Diet. The Anabolic Diet is a high protein, high fat diet which involves carbs cycling. Some things you can expect:
How The Anabolic Diet Works. The Anabolic Diet works whatever your gender or age. And like any diet, it works best coupled with Invalid Link Removed. Here's how your week looks like when you eat the Anabolic Diet way:
Benefits of The Anabolic Diet. The Anabolic Diet is a high protein, high fat diet which involves carbs cycling. Some things you can expect:
How The Anabolic Diet Works. The Anabolic Diet works whatever your gender or age. And like any diet, it works best coupled with Invalid Link Removed. Here's how your week looks like when you eat the Anabolic Diet way:
Benefits of The Anabolic Diet. The Anabolic Diet is a high protein, high fat diet which involves carbs cycling. Some things you can expect:
- Fat Loss. You force your body to use fat for energy by avoiding carbs for 5 days. Your body stores less fat because you eat lots of fats. You'll get rid of stubborn fat like love handles. 10% body fat year through is easy.
- Muscle Gains. Key to the Anabolic Diet is fatty read meat. This is rich in Invalid Link Removed and saturated fats which increase your testosterone levels. Testosterone is the muscle building hormone.
- Improved Health. Lower cholesterol & tryglyceride levels, less plaque build up, controlled insulin levels, less food allergies, less acne, ... Do a blood test before starting the Anabolic Diet and compare months later.
- More Energy. Controlling your carb intake will make you wake up full of energy. You'll never have blood sugar crashes or heaviness after eating again. Also less irritability & less mood swings.
- No Hunger. Fat satiates and makes you feel full longer. Invalid Link Removed on the Anabolic Diet. You'll have to remind yourself to eat even though you'll be eating more than before.
How The Anabolic Diet Works. The Anabolic Diet works whatever your gender or age. And like any diet, it works best coupled with Invalid Link Removed. Here's how your week looks like when you eat the Anabolic Diet way:
- Weekdays. Proteins, fats & veggies. Eat fatty red meat, fatty fish, whole eggs, full fat cheese, olive oil, spinach, broccoli, cabbage, ...
- Weekends. Eat lots of carbs. Pasta, rice, bread, potatoes, oats, fruit, ... Lower your protein & fat intake.
Benefits of The Anabolic Diet. The Anabolic Diet is a high protein, high fat diet which involves carbs cycling. Some things you can expect:
- Fat Loss. You force your body to use fat for energy by avoiding carbs for 5 days. Your body stores less fat because you eat lots of fats. You'll get rid of stubborn fat like love handles. 10% body fat year through is easy.
- Muscle Gains. Key to the Anabolic Diet is fatty read meat. This is rich in Invalid Link Removed and saturated fats which increase your testosterone levels. Testosterone is the muscle building hormone.
- Improved Health. Lower cholesterol & tryglyceride levels, less plaque build up, controlled insulin levels, less food allergies, less acne, ... Do a blood test before starting the Anabolic Diet and compare months later.
- More Energy. Controlling your carb intake will make you wake up full of energy. You'll never have blood sugar crashes or heaviness after eating again. Also less irritability & less mood swings.
- No Hunger. Fat satiates and makes you feel full longer. Invalid Link Removed on the Anabolic Diet. You'll have to remind yourself to eat even though you'll be eating more than before.
How The Anabolic Diet Works. The Anabolic Diet works whatever your gender or age. And like any diet, it works best coupled with Invalid Link Removed. Here's how your week looks like when you eat the Anabolic Diet way:
- Weekdays. Proteins, fats & veggies. Eat fatty red meat, fatty fish, whole eggs, full fat cheese, olive oil, spinach, broccoli, cabbage, ...
- Weekends. Eat lots of carbs. Pasta, rice, bread, potatoes, oats, fruit, ... Lower your protein & fat intake.
Benefits of The Anabolic Diet. The Anabolic Diet is a high protein, high fat diet which involves carbs cycling. Some things you can expect:
- Fat Loss. You force your body to use fat for energy by avoiding carbs for 5 days. Your body stores less fat because you eat lots of fats. You'll get rid of stubborn fat like love handles. 10% body fat year through is easy.
- Muscle Gains. Key to the Anabolic Diet is fatty read meat. This is rich in Invalid Link Removed and saturated fats which increase your testosterone levels. Testosterone is the muscle building hormone.
- Improved Health. Lower cholesterol & tryglyceride levels, less plaque build up, controlled insulin levels, less food allergies, less acne, ... Do a blood test before starting the Anabolic Diet and compare months later.
- More Energy. Controlling your carb intake will make you wake up full of energy. You'll never have blood sugar crashes or heaviness after eating again. Also less irritability & less mood swings.
- No Hunger. Fat satiates and makes you feel full longer. Invalid Link Removed on the Anabolic Diet. You'll have to remind yourself to eat even though you'll be eating more than before.
How The Anabolic Diet Works. The Anabolic Diet works whatever your gender or age. And like any diet, it works best coupled with Invalid Link Removed. Here's how your week looks like when you eat the Anabolic Diet way:
- Weekdays. Proteins, fats & veggies. Eat fatty red meat, fatty fish, whole eggs, full fat cheese, olive oil, spinach, broccoli, cabbage, ...
- Weekends. Eat lots of carbs. Pasta, rice, bread, potatoes, oats, fruit, ... Lower your protein & fat intake.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
Yep that is the diet I was talking about charley......I have the book, its a smaller book.....might not call it a real book, but I used that diet many times. It works well for fat loss thats for certain, just that I always felt flat during the week with no carbs. I can run on fats no problem, but my muscles just looked flat. If fat loss is your primary goal and your not that into the cosmetic appearance stuff....Its a good diet. Lots of protein as well for muscle building in addition to the fat burning. I can eat me some eggs and sausage and bacon and meats thats for sure...........
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
Two other diet books I have here that are almost exactly like the anabolic diet are "Bodyopus" by Dan duchaine and of course the Atkins diet. The duchaine diet is REALLY strict on the weekend recomp with carbs....its not as fun as the other diets where you eat any and all carbs....you need to eat specific foods or specific carb shakes etc on the weekend. In his bodyopus book he has that atkins like diet along with an isocaloric option as well as a more conventional diet. its 3 different diets in one book
wait what?
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
High LDL results arent necessarily a bad thing. When you get blood work done your LDL is usually estimated and not an actual measurement. Ask your doctor for a VAP test for a lipoprotein analysis and see what type of LDL is making up your LDL count. Typically people with high HDL combined with low trig usually also have more of the larger LDL and less of the smaller dense LDL. If your VAP test confirms this then your high LDL will not be a concern for you. However, if your results do come back showing sdLDL dominates your LDL count than I would suggest intermittent fasting. Recent research (Invalid Link Removed) has shown IF results in an improvement of LDL health. Also lower overall carb intake and eliminate trans fat and refined, processed foods as these all contribute towards inflammation
criticalbench
Legend
Good info on a VAP test; a much better indicator.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
Yes, C-reactive protein and homocysteine are inflammatory processes. Cholesterol is the response to these processes. First, not all inflammation isnt necessarily a bad thing either. It is our bodies natural defense system. CRP will go up to anything that causes inflammation. It is our bodies response to stress, injury, illness, pain etc. The inflammation that raises your CVD risk is chronic systemic inflammation. Think it is important to differentiate between the two. CRP only tells us that inflammation is occurring, it does not tell us why and taking a drug that can reduce the livers production of CRP does not help us much really as the root cause of the problem has not been addressed.
Now on statins and CRP, I assume you are referring to the jupiter study (Invalid Link Removed) ? There are a couple issues with the creditability to the study, one being it was funded by the owners of crestor (a popular statin) and two it was carried out by the man who holds that patent on the CRP test. To add to this, the group of people chosen for the trial were either above 50 years old (for men) and above 60 years old (for women) and had normal LDL and elevated CRP (which is pretty unusual). This study says nothing about those who are under those ages. Furthermore, even taking the above out of the equation, the total reduction for CVD risk was only around 0.9%! Overall what this really does show us is that giving statins to people with elevated CRP really doesnt do much to improve their health. Dr. Eades does a pretty good job breaking down the study here - Invalid Link Removed.
Lastly, this idea that people with normal cholesterol levels should all go on statins is ridiculous and their "evidence" supports the ridiculousness of it. Overall, if people have a constant elevated CRP without the presence of illness, they should try to find out what exactly is causing their inflammation and NOT try to cover it up with a statin. A proper diet, consistent exercise, stress reduction and smart supplementation (such as fish oil) should be ones focus, NOT going on a statin. Taking a statin will not solve anything and only open doors up to new problems (yes statins come with a host of problems themselves) so why do it?
Any diet that cuts your carb intake will do this
flightposite
Board Sponsor
JudoJosh said:
Josh is on point with this 100% agreement. I'm sure this new iforce product is great though and will benefit many who take steroids or any prohormone cycle. I might pick some up. Also would be a better alternative to statins IMO.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
Reduced HDL is a common side effect of androgen use and having low HDL while taking a androgen does not necessarily mean you are at a greater risk as research has shown us the protective activity (HTGL) of HDL is still present even though the number of HDL particles has decreased.
No there are differences
Atkins, mcdonalds keto diet, dan duchanies body opus, dipasquale anabolic diet, etc all have their differences.
WARBIRDWS6
Banned
I said earlier there ARE slight differences in all of them......but facetiously said in that response they are all the same since essentially they share the same basic premise.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
I sort of lump all cardiovascular events such as cardiac and stroke incidents under CVD
I wouldnt day it is necessairly new information. These studies have been around for a while now, the medical community just refuses to let go of their flawed beliefs despite the lack of evidence to support them.
I work at a magnet hospital as well (which magnet status doesnt mean squat IMO). I have never attended any kind of cardiovascular conference but from my experience working with cardiologist, they mostly still hold on to the idea that dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol are somehow connected, so I dont know how much weigt I would place on their opinions on cholesterol levels.
Decreased HDL should be a concern as the protective mechanism of HDL against CVD is pretty well understood. HDL levels and risk of CVD are connected IMO, LDL levels are not. And I agree, addressing diet and exercise should be the first step and not spending money on expensive unnecessary statin drugs.
Niacin is effective because it mimics the effects of fasting and low carb diets but excessive niacin supplementation leads to other problems such as insulin resistance, high uric acid, liver issues, gout etc. Switching your diet will be just as effective without all the negative risk
Fish oil is an excellent suggestion! And I have been a fan of taurine for a long time now.