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if you are still eating grains, read this

AntonG42O

AntonG42O

Well-known member
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and if you think that you are a lucky person that can tolerate gluten, give it 10-20 years and that inflammation will build up. this is why we eliminate grains from our diet. paleo is not a diet, its a way to eat to reduce inflammation.
 
hmm, i still like bread and beer too much to give it up lol. very interesting article though, i didnt know that many people were intolerant / allergic to gluten. makes you wonder how many people don't even know they have a gluten intolerance.
 
I think everyone to a certain extent is gluten intolerant. Some obviously more than others, some have full blown celliac disease, others not so much. But I believe everyone is intolerant a little, simply because there is no getting around it the fact is that GLUTEN IS INFLAMMATORY.
 
So even in that opinion article, it doesn't hazard a guess as to what % of people have a gluten allergy, much less show any actual studies with numbers. Why do you think it actually affects any significant % of people?
 
EasyEJL said:
So even in that opinion article, it doesn't hazard a guess as to what % of people have a gluten allergy, much less show any actual studies with numbers. Why do you think it actually affects any significant % of people?
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oh god dont start another "show me the clinical study!" discussion
 
honestly dude i dont want to argue with you again. eat your bread and gluten and whatever you want. obviously there is no financial gain in banishing gluten/grains so there arent many studies being funded that would prove to you that this food is crap. stick to your guns and good luck.
 
No, its just amazing that you'd call something poison that humans have been eating for 10,000 years with no evidence but that you and a small number of other people feel better not eating it. Sure some peoples have allergic reactions to it to varying degrees, that doesn't make it poison, and it certainly doesn't mean any majority of people have negative reactions or allergies to it.

And so long as you eat plenty of antiinflammatory foods getting some amount of proinflammatory in isn't terrible either. Heck if you are trying to entirely avoid inflammatory response why would you exercise even?
 
AntonG42O said:
paleo is not a diet, its a way to eat to reduce inflammation.
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Our paleolithic ancestors did indeed eat grains though. They collected wild barley, oats, wheats, etc. Especially those who hunted the larger animals of the ice age...there were abundant grains growing on the steppes since the harsh winds/weather and permafrost did not permit tree growth.

I can see the argument to reduce consumption of ADDED gluten, since it is in just about every processed food imaginable; however, to go so far as to claim the causality in the entire population that some of the paleo proponents (and I think paleo is a poor title choice) has yet to be scientifically founded.

Br
 
EasyEJL said:
No, its just amazing that you'd call something poison that humans have been eating for 10,000 years with no evidence but that you and a small number of other people feel better not eating it. Sure some peoples have allergic reactions to it to varying degrees, that doesn't make it poison, and it certainly doesn't mean any majority of people have negative reactions or allergies to it.

And so long as you eat plenty of antiinflammatory foods getting some amount of proinflammatory in isn't terrible either. Heck if you are trying to entirely avoid inflammatory response why would you exercise even?
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well, i am very happy that you've been able to achieve the physique and a state of well being that you desired without having to give up the grains.
 
ZiR RED said:
Our paleolithic ancestors did indeed eat grains though. They collected wild barley, oats, wheats, etc. Especially those who hunted the larger animals of the ice age...there were abundant grains growing on the steppes since the harsh winds/weather and permafrost did not permit tree growth.

I can see the argument to reduce consumption of ADDED gluten, since it is in just about every processed food imaginable; however, to go so far as to claim the causality in the entire population that some of the paleo proponents (and I think paleo is a poor title choice) has yet to be scientifically founded.

Br
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history aside, do you consume gluten rich products every day with no restriction? how do you feel?
 
EasyEJL said:
No, its just amazing that you'd call something poison that humans have been eating for 10,000 years with no evidence but that you and a small number of other people feel better not eating it. Sure some peoples have allergic reactions to it to varying degrees, that doesn't make it poison, and it certainly doesn't mean any majority of people have negative reactions or allergies to it.

And so long as you eat plenty of antiinflammatory foods getting some amount of proinflammatory in isn't terrible either. Heck if you are trying to entirely avoid inflammatory response why would you exercise even?
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I will try to find and cite this specifically later, but I believe from an anthropological stand point, the inflammation and symptoms associated were significantly less in our ancestors.
 
AntonG42O said:
history aside, do you consume gluten rich products every day with no restriction? how do you feel?
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I don't restrict gluten, but I also do not go out of my way to eat foods with added gluten.

I eat a variety of whole grains: wheat, rice, oats, quinoa, etc.

And, I feel fine and perform well. But, that's not a very good argument in either direction. N=1 means very little.

I think we need to place emphasis on balancing potentially inflammatory foods with foods that hold anti-inflammatory properties.

For example, peanuts are inflammatory. Jalepeno peppers are quite anti inflammatory.

And the problem with a lot of the gluten research, is that it is conducted in people who are already at high risk for systemic inflammation: the sedentary.

So, I think a lot more research needs to be done before we go demonizing a nutrient (when consumed as part of a whole food, not additive) in the general population.

Br
 
And just to be clear, I do agree that dropping gluten can benefit a decent amount of people most likely people who have the tendency to be a "hardgainer" as malabsorption of nutrients can definitely lead to hard gaining. Theres definitely no harm in dropping gluten, heck if you can substitute in quinoa + quinoa flour for all the other grains you eat you end up way ahead of the game with the ecdysterone content of quinoa.

I just don't see that dropping gluten will make a noticeable impact on the majority of people. Could it be useful for 20-30% of people? Possibly so I can definitely see where its worth trying a decent time span gluten free, but if you don't have enough of a difference in that time to notice it, returning to using grains with gluten shouldn't hurt either. For most non-bodybuilding people clipping sugar intake and vegetable fats would have more benefit than dropping grains.
 
ZiR RED said:
I don't restrict gluten, but I also do not go out of my way to eat foods with added gluten.

I eat a variety of whole grains: wheat, rice, oats, quinoa, etc.

And, I feel fine and perform well. But, that's not a very good argument in either direction. N=1 means very little.

I think we need to place emphasis on balancing potentially inflammatory foods with foods that hold anti-inflammatory properties.

For example, peanuts are inflammatory. Jalepeno peppers are quite anti inflammatory.

And the problem with a lot of the gluten research, is that it is conducted in people who are already at high risk for systemic inflammation: the sedentary.

So, I think a lot more research needs to be done before we go demonizing a nutrient (when consumed as part of a whole food, not additive) in the general population.

Br
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so if there is merit in balancing inflammatory foods with anti-inflammatory foods, does it make sense to drop inflammatory foods all together? arent we shooting for optimal health here?
 
AntonG42O said:
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and if you think that you are a lucky person that can tolerate gluten, give it 10-20 years and that inflammation will build up. this is why we eliminate grains from our diet. paleo is not a diet, its a way to eat to reduce inflammation.
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AntonG420, if you don't mind would you post your daily diet. I'm trying to go Paleo and I'm curious what you eat throughout the day. Thanks!
 
AntonG42O said:
so if there is merit in balancing inflammatory foods with anti-inflammatory foods, does it make sense to drop inflammatory foods all together? arent we shooting for optimal health here?
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I'm not totally sure.

There is a role behind inflammation in the body, and it does result in adaptation (such as muscle growth, for one).

Omega-6 fatty acids are inflammatory; however, eliminating them entirely from the diet will have catastrophic effects as they are need for certain biological processes.

Just as we know there is an optimal balance between omega 3 to 6, I think whats most important is to balance infammation - both in the diet and in the environment.
 
ZiR RED said:
I'm not totally sure.

There is a role behind inflammation in the body, and it does result in adaptation (such as muscle growth, for one).

Omega-6 fatty acids are inflammatory; however, eliminating them entirely from the diet will have catastrophic effects as they are need for certain biological processes.

Just as we know there is an optimal balance between omega 3 to 6, I think whats most important is to balance infammation - both in the diet and in the environment.
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Agreed, just like arachadonic acid is very inflammatory but is also produced naturally in the body. Also if supplemented, ArA can produce great results in bodybuilding. Obviously prolonged supplementation of high levels of ArA isn't optimally healthy but it has its place. So what I'm saying is that while not everybody has an adverse reaction to grains, too much of anything isn't good. Doesn't necessarily mean we can't eat it or have it to cut it out altogether, but rather control intake and in most cases it won't become an issue.
 
Dath said:
AntonG420, if you don't mind would you post your daily diet. I'm trying to go Paleo and I'm curious what you eat throughout the day. Thanks!
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sure:

8am) 4-5 eggs with 1 whole avocado 1 whole tomato

11am) 5-6 hardboiled eggs, 1 cup raw broccoli, 1 cup baby carrots

1pm) 1 can wild alaskan salmon (7.5 oz), 2 servings spinach, 1 cup raw broccoli, 1 cup baby carrots

4pm) 4 hardboiled eggs, fresh fruit salad

preworkout and postworkout ill have a little fruit

workout

9pm) 1 pound ground bison scrambled with 1 whole avocado, 1 whole tomato, 3-4 eggs.

throughout the day i snack on raw almonds
 
AntonG42O said:
sure:

8am) 4-5 eggs with 1 whole avocado 1 whole tomato

11am) 5-6 hardboiled eggs, 1 cup raw broccoli, 1 cup baby carrots

1pm) 1 can wild alaskan salmon (7.5 oz), 2 servings spinach, 1 cup raw broccoli, 1 cup baby carrots

4pm) 4 hardboiled eggs, fresh fruit salad

preworkout and postworkout ill have a little fruit

workout

9pm) 1 pound ground bison scrambled with 1 whole avocado, 1 whole tomato, 3-4 eggs.

throughout the day i snack on raw almonds
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that sounds incredibly delicious. not sure why i never thought to combine avocados and ground bison / beef.
 
laserbluess said:
that sounds incredibly delicious. not sure why i never thought to combine avocados and ground bison / beef.
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Oh yeah, use plum or roma tomatos too (cause they cook nice), and some jalapeno peppers and red onions. Really don't need any other seasonings then.

I need to find another place around me that sells ground bison. Was near a butcher shop at the last house that had it but none of the ones near me now have it.
 
bison steaks are too much. $10 plus change for not even a pound. the ground bison costs me $8.79 for a pound.
 
The only place i've bought bison lately only sells premade 1/4 lb burgers, and its $12 for 4 1/4lb ones. They are good, but crap thats barely 2 meals.
 
How do you guys respond when you eat enriched vs whole grain? I personally tolerate whole grain well. Enriched makes me bloated, gasy, and sometimes constipated. Definetely stomach issues. I can't say that I notice any other effects besides that.
 
Flaw said:
How do you guys respond when you eat enriched vs whole grain? I personally tolerate whole grain well. Enriched makes me bloated, gasy, and sometimes constipated. Definetely stomach issues. I can't say that I notice any other effects besides that.
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look on the label of whole grain products, most likely it still says enriched flour
 
AntonG42O said:
sure:

8am) 4-5 eggs with 1 whole avocado 1 whole tomato

11am) 5-6 hardboiled eggs, 1 cup raw broccoli, 1 cup baby carrots

1pm) 1 can wild alaskan salmon (7.5 oz), 2 servings spinach, 1 cup raw broccoli, 1 cup baby carrots

4pm) 4 hardboiled eggs, fresh fruit salad

preworkout and postworkout ill have a little fruit

workout

9pm) 1 pound ground bison scrambled with 1 whole avocado, 1 whole tomato, 3-4 eggs.

throughout the day i snack on raw almonds
Click to expand...

clean diet, but thats alot of eggs... too many IMO

why not more chicken and fish?

bison looks interesting... expensive but interesting..


im also gluten intolerant... and ive been for a few months

its strange how this happened to me, i used to be able to eat anything... but now, if i eat ANY gluten, im on the toilet for hours with horrible stomach pains/bloat and lethargy.... this all happened DAY 1 of pct after a dzine run

i looked into everything from ibs to chrons and colitis...... i saw specialist after doctor after hospital visit, to come to find out that gluten was causing me to react this way

going from 218 to 200 within a month of going gluten free sucked, but im learning how to get the cals in without the gluten



to me, it is TOXIC and would have probably killed me if i didnt stop eating it

i spent 5 months eating it, shatting my ass off, and hurting myself every day without a clue as to what it can be...

my girlfriend, her mother, her brother and a few friends have all gone gluten free after looking into the benefits of avoiding it.. AND THEY DONT HAVE THIS THING LOL


good to know im not the only one... antong, those almonds are a life saver when it comes to getting extra cals in right?
 
How is that too many eggs? Eggs are natures perfect protein and if your gripe is the cholesterol content, then you need to do some major research regarding serum cholesterol.

I have been one of the larger Paleo/Primal proponents on this board for a long time and most simply are too ingrained (no pun intended) with the "BB'ing norms" regarding nutrition to even give it a chance.
 
EasyEJL said:
So even in that opinion article, it doesn't hazard a guess as to what % of people have a gluten allergy, much less show any actual studies with numbers. Why do you think it actually affects any significant % of people?
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Cross fit and Paleo is cultish....

Believe T-nation believe anyone...

Once nutrition programs becomes my way is the only way, it's time to bail and cover your ears but there is good in almost every dieting philosophy...except the cookie diet, that dude should be drowned...

Proper way to learn nutrition is to learn the basic function of a carbohyrdate, fat, and protein and the ultimate principle of caloric value and move from there...

Don't dring the koolaid....
 
I started eating 8-12 eggs a day maybe 2 months ago and believe I've added some muscle while gaining no extra fat. Eggs Are indeed a wonderful BBing food. I will never go back to egg whites as my only source for egg protein
 
Do NOT assume that people that adhere to Paleo support CrossFit. I, for one, loathe and abhor their whole philosophy. I learned about Paleo via my BJJ coach ~5 years ago before CF really exploded.
 
This is total crap. It's a problem that affects a small but I guess significant proportion of white people, who are a minority among all living humans, and suddenly gluten is labeled bad for everyone. Jokes.
 
Torobestia said:
This is total crap. It's a problem that affects a small but I guess significant proportion of white people, who are a minority among all living humans, and suddenly gluten is labeled bad for everyone. Jokes.
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Is this too above your head?

J Physiol Biochem. 2010 Jun;66(2):153-9. Epub 2010 Jun 1.
Gliadins induce TNFalpha production through cAMP-dependent protein kinase A activation in intestinal cells (Caco-2).

Laparra Llopis JM, Sanz Herranz Y.

Microbial Ecophysiology and Nutrition Group, Instituto de Agroquímica y Tecnología de Alimentos (CSIC), Apartado 73, 46100 Burjassot, Valencia, Spain. [email protected]
Abstract

Celiac disease is an autoimmune enteropathy caused by a permanent intolerance to gliadins. In this study the effects of two gliadin-derived peptides (PA2, PQPQLPYPQPQLP and PA9, QLQPFPQPQLPY) on TNFalpha production by intestinal epithelial cells (Caco-2) and whether these effects were related to protein kinase A (PKA) and/or -C (PKC) activities have been evaluated. Caco-2 cell cultures were challenged with several sets of gliadin peptides solutions (0.25 mg/mL), with/without different activators of PKA or PKC, bradykinin (Brdkn) and pyrrolidine dithiocarbamate (PDTC). The gliadin-derived peptides assayed represent the two major immunodominant epitopes of the peptide 33-mer of alpha-gliadin (56-88) (LQLQPFPQPQLPYPQPQLPYPQPQLPYPQ PQPF). Both peptides induced the TNFalpha production triggering the inflammatory cell responses, the PA2 being more effective. The addition of the peptides in the presence of dibutyril cyclic AMP (cAMP), Brdkn or PDTC, inhibited the TNFalpha production. The PKC-activator phorbol 12-myristate 13-diacetate additionally increased the PA2- and PA9-induced TNFalpha production. These results link the gliadin-derived peptides induced TNFalpha production through cAMP-dependent PKA activation, where ion channels controlling calcium influx into cells could play a protective role, and requires NF-kappaB activation.

PMID: 20514534


Regardless of your feelings, gluten is inherently inflammatory and should be avoided as much as possible.
 
Rodja said:
Do NOT assume that people that adhere to Paleo support CrossFit. I, for one, loathe and abhor their whole philosophy. I learned about Paleo via my BJJ coach ~5 years ago before CF really exploded.
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The Gracies have a similar diet.

Paleo is not ground breaking everyone should be eating fruits, veggies, good protein and eliminating processed food.

If you understand food, you find a food that fits you but we've been programmed to eat like robots starting in kindergarden...

My issue is the blind following and the cult like attitude towards food.

poor kids don't even know what a Cucumber looks like these days....

Everyone and mean everyone should understand the basic concept of food. the scary part is those that are teaching nutrition in gyms and such are quaks.
 
EasyEJL said:
Oh yeah, use plum or roma tomatos too (cause they cook nice), and some jalapeno peppers and red onions. Really don't need any other seasonings then.

I need to find another place around me that sells ground bison. Was near a butcher shop at the last house that had it but none of the ones near me now have it.
Click to expand...

They sell Bison at all the supermarkets here.
 
SuperNew said:
The Gracies have a similar diet.

Paleo is not ground breaking everyone should be eating fruits, veggies, good protein and eliminating processed food.

If you understand food, you find a food that fits you but we've been programmed to eat like robots starting in kindergarden...

My issue is the blind following and the cult like attitude towards food.

poor kids don't even know what a Cucumber looks like these days....

Everyone and mean everyone should understand the basic concept of food. the scary part is those that are teaching nutrition in gyms and such are quaks.
Click to expand...

Contemporary nutrition is awful. Look at how many fat nutritionists there are in the world. That is all you need to know. Part of the problem is the conflict of interest between companies such as Monsanto and the USDA.
 
Torobestia said:
This is total crap. It's a problem that affects a small but I guess significant proportion of white people, who are a minority among all living humans, and suddenly gluten is labeled bad for everyone. Jokes.
Click to expand...

White people are Human? Get out of here...
 
Rodja said:
Contemporary nutrition is awful. Look at how many fat nutritionists there are in the world. That is all you need to know. Part of the problem is the conflict of interest between companies such as Monsanto and the USDA.
Click to expand...

To even call today's diet nutrition is a stretch...its let's feed them to get sick so they can buy our medicine...

The other day I was at the airport and the head of some government department for the education for obesity was a fat chick....:fool2:
 
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