AI's Super Swole Stack...GoHard's Quest for Strength Absolute

[MrKleen73]

AWESOME articles Andres!! Big thanks for posting them. I was just about to respond to the study Chris posted and say "but hey those are diabetics" but then say yours..

I am still tryna get a grasp on everything, my understanding on how fat intake effects the insulin response was based upon the writings of some pretty well known people in the industry, I guess it was my fault for not questioning it an looking further into it, I just kind of took it as fact considering the people stating it in my readings.



The bold portion interest me the most here. I have been trying to wrap my head around the relation of blood sugar and the insulin response. I recently got me a blood glucose meter and was going to do some test with various nutrient partioners ( ALA, NA-R-ALA, Barberine, etc) and was wondering the relation of the two. So far my understanding is insulin is released when a certain level of blood sugar is present in the body in order to decrease the blood sugar level. I was going to test myself after meals and after ingestion of whatever supplement I am taking just to see their effect and try and have a better understanding. For example one test I want to do is compare NA-R-ALA and ALA and their ability to induce hypoglycemia prior to bed. I would like to see what my blood sugar level is at after I take whatever supplement and then again after I eat x amount of carbs. See if anyone of them make the blood sugar more stable.

If you have any input on any of this Chris or anyone I would love to hear..

Now as for Insulin, I honestly think it is overrated in the bodybuilding realm. I try and keep my blood sugar balanced throughout the day and avoid insulin spikes. Insulin spikes from carbs are NOT needed to shuttle nutrients. I think what people tend to get confused over is that the "anabolic hormone" isnt really insulin but Insulin-like growth factor-1. IGF-1 has a more prolonged effect in muscle protein synthesis and in order for IGF-1 to be released, there needs to be a little bit of growth hormone release as well to trigger it, which can happen during the next 20+ hours after a very intense workout. IGF-1 is the hormone you want released for growth and it requires a little spurt of growth hormone to happen and the growth hormone can be completely blocked by dietary carb immediately after the workout, even if consumed in only tiny amounts.

Disclaimer:
Again I am no expert in ANY of this and in fact I am very new to really getting into how things work and LOVE just learning about it all and this convo has been great so far. My above statements are all based upon information I have read and I hope in no way I am coming off as a "know it all" or challenging any of you guys

One more interesting thing I have found out recently, do you know what blunts GH release even more than Carbs? Fats, Lipids i the bloodstream already in the form that can be used as energy. Interestingly enough once GH begins causing lypolosis it immdiately blunts itself by the very lipids that are released. I learned this fact by researching on a GH specific site ran by DatBTrue, look his name up he is basically the Peptide Guru and seems overly knowledgeable in all things GH. The only food source that does not blunt GH is protein. Crazy....

I will come back to this but for now I have to clock out and go home.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

So as said before the insulin reaction is the same or greater in both situations, IE the fat content does not blunt the insulin response and as you can see if actually increases it slightly. Not the glucose response but the insulin response. Obviously glucose and insulin reactions are not completely dependent on each other. Either way the increase in insulin is there and that means storage capacity is increased, shuttling protein and whatever other nutrients into the muscle post workout whether fat is involved in the equation or not. As already known the body does not typically store fat post workout so no need to obsess over a bit of fat being in the post workout window. Many people who do carb ups actually prefer to do them in the presence of fat perhaps do to the bolus getting smaller slowing digestion of the carbs while not lowering the insulin response keeping the anabolic event longer giving the muscle time to gradually take up the glycogen as it is released into the bloodstream. Now that is just my thought process on the matter anyone for discussion here?

Hmmm...i do not think the presence of fat prolonges the insulin response. BEfore i discuss this further allow me to do a little research so I dont post ignorantly.


Now my $.02 on insulin:

Judo...insulin is not overrated and I will tell you why. Biochemically...it is the strongest and most important anabolic messenger related to dietary intake. Insulin is what takes you out of a catabolic state and allows fro protein synthesis (along with glycogenesis and triglyceride storage).

When you master insulin...you have effectively mastered one of the most anabolic hormones in your body.

Insulin spikes ae good and bad. Bad in a diabetic...crucial to an athlete looking to illicit muscle protein synthesis. A good insulin spike brought about by luecine or carbs or both can pull your body out of a catabolic state and into an anabolic state in 10-15 minutes. Maybe quicker maybe longer depending on the individual and the means of spiking insuling.

Dont get me wrong, IGF-1, GH, test, etc etc are also very anabolic hormones that illicit amazing gains. But to underplay the importance of insulin is underplaying the biochemistry of diet to a certain degree.

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm back to trying to play with the Layne Norton 5g of leucine all at once per hour trick for forced anabolic activity

 

[MrKleen73]

Hmmm...i do not think the presence of fat prolonges the insulin response. BEfore i discuss this further allow me to do a little research so I dont post ignorantly.


Now my $.02 on insulin:

Judo...insulin is not overrated and I will tell you why. Biochemically...it is the strongest and most important anabolic messenger related to dietary intake. Insulin is what takes you out of a catabolic state and allows fro protein synthesis (along with glycogenesis and triglyceride storage).

When you master insulin...you have effectively mastered one of the most anabolic hormones in your body.

Insulin spikes ae good and bad. Bad in a diabetic...crucial to an athlete looking to illicit muscle protein synthesis. A good insulin spike brought about by luecine or carbs or both can pull your body out of a catabolic state and into an anabolic state in 10-15 minutes. Maybe quicker maybe longer depending on the individual and the means of spiking insuling.

Dont get me wrong, IGF-1, GH, test, etc etc are also very anabolic hormones that illicit amazing gains. But to underplay the importance of insulin is underplaying the biochemistry of diet to a certain degree.

If you find something to the contrary I would love to see it Andres. That would make some of the dietary and timing choices much easier. I am admittedly regurgitating someone else's knowledge. Although I think I saw some of the quotes from the studies which is why I jumped on the band wagon. I agree insulin is a hormone to be harnessed and is actually involved in about everything you eat. Protein causes a release, carbs cause a release, and fats not so sure about a release there.

I'm back to trying to play with the Layne Norton 5g of leucine all at once per hour trick for forced anabolic activity

Interesting, I bet this works. During my fasting period I take in 8-10 grams of of mixed aminos and protein peptides every 2 hours so similar to what you are talking about in total quantity anyway.

 

[DreamWeaver]

If you find something to the contrary I would love to see it Andres. That would make some of the dietary and timing choices much easier. I am admittedly regurgitating someone else's knowledge. Although I think I saw some of the quotes from the studies which is why I jumped on the band wagon.


Interesting, I bet this works. During my fasting period I take in 8-10 grams of of mixed aminos and protein peptides every 2 hours so similar to what you are talking about in total quantity anyway.

How's that mix break down...?

 

[MrKleen73]

No a clinical study but this is taken from Melatoninhq.com it is a GH peptide website that focuses on Growth Hormone releasing peptides.

Should food be consumed before or after the injection of Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) and/or Growth Hormone Releasing Peptides (GHRP)?
Studies have shown that administration should ideally be done on either an empty stomach or with only protein in the stomach. Fats and carbohydrates blunt growth hormone release. After administering the peptides wait about 20 minutes (no more than 30 but no less than 15 minutes) to eat. At that point the growth hormone pulse has reached its peak and you can eat what you want.

Unfortunately I am not great on the searches in PubMed. I am sure there are a good string of words to find some of the studies.

 

[MrKleen73]

Invalid Link Removed

Acute effects of high fat and high glucose meals on the growth hormone response to exercise.
Cappon JP, Ipp E, Brasel JA, Cooper DM.

Department of Pediatrics, Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Torrance 90509.
Abstract
The health promoting, anabolic effects of physical activity may be mediated, in part, by an exercise-associated increase in GH. However, little is known about the acute effects of diet on exercise-induced GH release. We hypothesized that a single meal could attenuate the GH response to exercise by modulating substances like somatostatin, insulin, or glucose. Eleven healthy young adults performed 10 min of high intensity, standardized cycle ergometry in the morning following an overnight fast. On separate days they ingested a noncaloric placebo liquid meal or an isovolemic, isocaloric liquid meal high in either fat or glucose. Venous blood samples were obtained before and for 90 min after exercise began, whereas gas exchange data were measured breath by breath. Peak mean oxygen consumption (VO2) was, on average, 9-fold greater than preexercise levels in all groups. Although there was no difference in preexercise GH levels, mean peak, postexercise GH was 54% lower after the high-fat meal compared with placebo (P < 0.01). Modest decreases in GH response to exercise after the high-glucose meal were not statistically significant. Mean serum somatostatin was significantly higher after the high-fat meal compared with both high glucose and placebo meals. This study demonstrates that exercise-induced GH release can be significantly attenuated by the contents of a single preexercise meal. The high fat meal increased circulating somatostatin and was associated with an inhibition of the GH secretion. The data provide a possible specific mechanism to explain how diet can acutely modulate the anabolic effects of exercise.

 

[MrKleen73]

How's that mix break down...?

If I remember correctly it ends up being 2 grams Glutamine Peptides, .5 Creatine Mono, .5 Citruline Malate, 1 grams instantized BCAA, 2.5 grams instantized luecine, and 2 grams whey peptides per scoop.

 

[DreamWeaver]

If I remember correctly it ends up being 2 grams Glutamine Peptides, .5 Creatine Mono, .5 Citruline Malate, 1 grams instantized BCAA, 2.5 grams instantized luecine, and 2 grams whey peptides per scoop.

Did you have that custom made or is it a particular product... I was still thinking about the 50% bcaa 25% EAA, 15% L-glutamine and 10% Taurine mix... I'm using quite a bit of that in the AM now...

 

[MrKleen73]

Did you have that custom made or is it a particular product... I was still thinking about the 50% bcaa 25% EAA, 15% L-glutamine and 10% Taurine mix... I'm using quite a bit of that in the AM now...

It is a mix I made at true protein. I think if I were you and this is just me but I would choose Whey peptides over EAA if taking to get more complete protein profile. EAA are ridiculously bitter and make it hard to add flavor successfully. This mix is easy to add flavor too. I have found 2 gallons worth of sugar free lemondae mix goes really well in a couple lbs of the stuff. I remember adding a crap load of stuff to things with EAA's in them and still never pleasant.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Great reads on the articals.

 

[DreamWeaver]

It is a mix I made at true protein. I think if I were you and this is just me but I would choose Whey peptides over EAA if taking to get more complete protein profile. EAA are ridiculously bitter and make it hard to add flavor successfully. This mix is easy to add flavor too. I have found 2 gallons worth of sugar free lemondae mix goes really well in a couple lbs of the stuff. I remember adding a crap load of stuff to things with EAA's in them and still never pleasant.

Yah that's where I got my mix made. You're right it's not the tastiest...

 

[MrKleen73]

Great reads on the articals.

And the information will come in handy when telling people what not to eat around the dosing considering up until recently I think most of us assumed that carbs were the worst culprit in blunting GH release.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

And the information will come in handy when telling people what not to eat around the dosing considering up until recently I think most of us assumed that carbs were the worst culprit in blunting GH release.

Yeah pretty much. THe safest best for postworkout nutrition in my current opinion is a nice well balanced protein intake to maximize everything from insulin spike to GH release. This is why i have really been playing with the whole hydrolyzed protein and peptopro idea to maximize insulin while stimulating GH release( proper amino acid uptake can help induce GH)

In the end i think im gonna try and go with 1 scoop Wheyology and 1 scoop Micellar Casein(both from tru nutrition). Its a little more affordable then true protein even though if I am ever able to afford it I will definitely hit up true protein. Right now I am still saving up to buy staples. I got some Dymatize Elit Xt for cheap from a local supp shop but even that set me back financially(yeah when $30 is a huge purchase in your life you know ur strapped haha).

 

[DreamWeaver]

Yeah pretty much. THe safest best for postworkout nutrition in my current opinion is a nice well balanced protein intake to maximize everything from insulin spike to GH release. This is why i have really been playing with the whole hydrolyzed protein and peptopro idea to maximize insulin while stimulating GH release( proper amino acid uptake can help induce GH)

In the end i think im gonna try and go with 1 scoop Wheyology and 1 scoop Micellar Casein(both from tru nutrition). Its a little more affordable then true protein even though if I am ever able to afford it I will definitely hit up true protein. Right now I am still saving up to buy staples. I got some Dymatize Elit Xt for cheap from a local supp shop but even that set me back financially(yeah when $30 is a huge purchase in your life you know ur strapped haha).

Well during prep we often revert to using high end proteins like Hydrolysate and Peptopro, I have to pick up some hydrolysate very soon as a matter of fact...less likely to bloat you I guess as these proteins are very pure. I used to get the hospital grade hydrolysate, now that was some expensive nasty tasting shyte...

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Well during prep we often revert to using high end proteins like Hydrolysate and Peptopro, I have to pick up some hydrolysate very soon as a matter of fact...less likely to bloat you I guess as these proteins are very pure. I used to get the hospital grade hydrolysate, now that was some expensive nasty tasting shyte...

Iv heard it has an extremely bitter taste...almost like non-flavored BCAA's...but worse.

I would def be make a mix of Hydrosylate and PeptoPro given I have the resources. Maybe add 2 more kinds of protein for a more sustained release over alonger peroid of time.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Iv heard it has an extremely bitter taste...almost like non-flavored BCAA's...but worse.

I would def be make a mix of Hydrosylate and PeptoPro given I have the resources. Maybe add 2 more kinds of protein for a more sustained release over alonger peroid of time.

You are bang on about the taste.:grumpy:

Yah that would be a mix best used as you are 8% body fat and below to attain the lean hard look. I can't really comment on using it in any other situation... It's pretty pricey..

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

You are bang on about the taste.:grumpy:

Yah that would be a mix best used as you are 8% body fat and below to attain the lean hard look. I can't really comment on using it in any other situation... It's pretty pricey..

for strength concentrate has been shown to be a little more effective. But if one where to have a good mix...theoretically you can have the fat burning of hydrosylate with the increased strength gains of concentrate.

Either way its something to try.

On a side note...im starting to get slightly annoyed with mindset "all whey is the same". Or whole food is always better postworkout then a shake. Dont get me wrong...whole food is paramount, but immediately afterwork it is not the most effective. And its no one in this log...or on this forum...or on AM...im speaking about other sites if you catch my drift.

 

[DreamWeaver]

for strength concentrate has been shown to be a little more effective. But if one where to have a good mix...theoretically you can have the fat burning of hydrosylate with the increased strength gains of concentrate.

Either way its something to try.

On a side note...im starting to get slightly annoyed with mindset "all whey is the same". Or whole food is always better postworkout then a shake. Dont get me wrong...whole food is paramount, but immediately afterwork it is not the most effective. And its no one in this log...or on this forum...or on AM...im speaking about other sites if you catch my drift.

Agreed... I use concentrate off season cuz it gets the job done for a good price, no need to get fancy whey digests quickly enough.

Post workout it's protein powder and BCAA's for me. It digests quickly and gets the body the nutrients when you need them, and becasue it digests quickly you can take in another meal about an hour later which makes it easier for timing meals as well.

During carb ups powder is a good way to get protein in when your stomach doesn't have room for whole food protein sources....

Yah you need your whole foods but powder has it's place. You're going to get a lot more out of using both.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Agreed... I use concentrate off season cuz it gets the job done for a good price, no need to get fancy whey digests quickly enough.

Post workout it's protein powder and BCAA's for me. It digests quickly and gets the body the nutrients when you need them, and becasue it digests quickly you can take in another meal about an hour later which makes it easier for timing meals as well.

During carb ups powder is a good way to get protein in when your stomach doesn't have room for whole food protein sources....

Yah you need your whole foods but powder has it's place. You're going to get a lot more out of using both.

Agreed on this.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Update time:

So yesterday I really didnt feel like training. I was tired and unmoivated...then i took two scoops of Maniac and got to work haha.

Legs:

ATG squats( butt was maybe 6 inches off the ground):

barx12
135x10
225x8
275x3
275x4
225x12
225x11

Leg Press:
8 platesx10
12 platesx25
12 platesx15
8 plates:35
8 platesx15

Box Squats:
135x10
225x8
225x6
225x3
135x10

One Legged Seated leg press: 3 sets no rest
135x10x10x10 each leg

Glute Ham raises:
3 no assistance+3 with assistance
4 no assistance+6 with assistance
2 no assistance+6 with assistance

Plate Loaded Leg Extensions:
1 platex15
2 platesx12
3 platesx12
3 platesx10

Leg Extension Cybex:
90lbx15(with holding) did this for 3 sets

Leg Curl:
90x15x15x15

Calvesx11 sets over well over 200(close to 300) reps 3 machines

Box Jumps with weights(15lbs each hand and in boots) and without weights(no weights)

Stair Master 10 minutes of intervals

Called it a leg day lol.

Later Today is chest. Once i get more time in the summer im gonna change up routine to 3-4days lifting and 2 days cardio/stretching(2 hours).

ALso i think i may have found a gym catered to powerlifting and serious lifters. Im gonna check the place out when during summer to see if it's worth joining. I would love to find a place where there is a bunch of serious powerlifitng monsters...thats when my lifting will truly begin to flourish.

 

[DAdams91982]

Update time:

So yesterday I really didnt feel like training. I was tired and unmoivated...then i took two scoops of Maniac and got to work haha.

Speaking of your supplementation... any updates to the regiment?

 

[EasyEJL]

the one legged leg press are the best. My ass is always sore after

 

[DAdams91982]

the one legged leg press are the best. My ass is always sore after

He said 1 legged presses... not third legged presses!

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Speaking of your supplementation... any updates to the regiment?

Right now Im really low on supplements.

Fat Smack
Elite Dymatize XT
Maniac
Recoverpro+Axcell

Nothing fancy at the moment since Im saving up to get a real nice cutting stack. I dont know when Ill be able to afford it but Im shooting for this:

Dexaprine(1 upone waking at 4-5 am)+AT2(1-2 later PM or Before bed)
Shred Matrix or OEP...something to take later in the day(1 serving maybe round 2pm)
SNS TTA
SNS RK-125
Adipose Annihilation(AA)+Glycobol
Prime+Ecdy
Maniac+Carnage+Creatine Nitrate
Wheyology+MIcellar Casein
Trutein

Would look like this:

5am: 1 dexaprine+TTA+RK125+AA+GLycobol
5:30am: 2 scoops Trutein+1 cup high fiber Bran+MCT, Ecdy+Prime
8:30am: Meal 1
11:30am: Meal 2+ TTA +RK125+AA+Prime+Ecdy
2:00pm: Shred Matrix
2:30pm: Meal 3
5:30pm: Meal 4 TTA +RK125+AA+Prime+Ecdy
8:30pm Meal 5
Pre-bed: AT2+TTA+RK125

Workout Days:
Pre-Workout: 2 Scoops Maniac+Creatine Nitrate+RecoverPro+Carnage
Post Workout: 1 scoop Wheyology+1 scoop Micellar Casein+Prime+Ecdy

Routine:
Monday: Legs+calves
Tuesday: Cardio+Stretching and maybe abs
Wednesday: Chest+Triceps
Thursday: Cardio+stretching
Friday: Back+Biceps
Saturday: Shoulders+Calves
Sunday Rest

Same as now 1 week light and long, 1 week heavy and short.

Regardless of supplementation I will adopt the routine after finals.

Then After 8 weeks of the above cutting Regimen I will adopt a Lean gains diet and hit up:

Testopro+Perform
HGHpro
Erase
Adamantium+something else with DAA(6 grams lift days 3 grams off days)

I may even run natadrol for 4-5 weeks then run the above stack after. We will see how things play out. Literally the only way I can run the above stacks is if God will's it b/c of how finances are at the moment. I have a lot of ideas but not much resources.

Diet is cycling fat, high protein, high fiber(low carbs).

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

the one legged leg press are the best. My ass is always sore after

Box Squats or GHR is what really gets my gluteus maximus. One legged press is more of a quad and ham isolation exercise for me.

He said 1 legged presses... not third legged presses!

LMAO....dam...there were some girls in the gym that i wouldnt mind spotting me with some 3rd leg presses

 

[JudoJosh]

wow I feel behind in this discussion in here..

I am going to go back and try to catch up.

I got a quick question for you guys though in regards to BCAAs during fasted periods...

I posted this statement in another thread in in response to someone asking if BCAAs would hinder their progress on a IF type diet

From what I have read BCAAs shouldn't have any impact on your IF diet, as it isn't really truely fasting but under-eating.

The goal is to activate cAMP through the undereating or fasting phase and BCAAs aren't going to inhibit this.

In regards to the calorie content of BCAAs, yes they do contain calories but it isn't in the same sense as food, re 50kcals from whey isn't the same as 50kcals from aminos. Remember a calorie is a unit of energy and not necessarily a measurement of food.

So while BCAAs do hold an energy value (calories) which is similar to protein (4kcal/g) they are metabolized within muscles. This is different then if aminos are being produced by the liver which would make the energy available to the whole body. When you are taking BCAAs they go straight to your muscles and then if your body needs energy it will go through the steps of either getting it from your muscle or from you stored body fat.

By fasting you are activating cAMP which will in turn activate enzymes that are responsible for protein synthesis and energy production, this results in the break down of glycogen reserves in the liver and induces lipolysis in fat cells

So BCAAs will go straight to your muscles when consumed and then your body will have a choice of muscle or fat for energy but through fasting you activated cAMP which activated lipolysis for its energy production so most likely the BCAAs will stay in your muscle and your energy will come from the fat stores IMO

Lastly leucine has been shown to boost protein synthesis and is the main regulator of protein metabolism.

I would suggest you experiment with and without aminos and see how you progress. I would start off with the aminos and only switch to without them if my weight loss slowed down or stopped. I dont see any reason why BCAAs shouldn't be taken during your under-eating/fasting period

Now this is what I believe in regards to BCAAs but would the same be true from EAAs?

I have been debating to switching my amino intake throughout my fasted period from BCAAs to EAAs and was wondering if I should just stick with BCAAs instead?

 

[MrKleen73]

wow I feel behind in this discussion in here..

I am going to go back and try to catch up.

I got a quick question for you guys though in regards to BCAAs during fasted periods...

I posted this statement in another thread in in response to someone asking if BCAAs would hinder their progress on a IF type diet



Now this is what I believe in regards to BCAAs but would the same be true from EAAs?

I have been debating to switching my amino intake throughout my fasted period from BCAAs to EAAs and was wondering if I should just stick with BCAAs instead?

BCAA's and L-Glutamine would be better in my opinion. Unless some other specific reasoning the bcaa's can handle increasing protein sythesis, glutmamine helps fight catabolism increases GH out put, boslters the immune system, and is the first amino the body goes after when catabolism starts. Keeping at a decent level has many benefits.

 

[EasyEJL]

I think if anything, supplementing with straight leucine would make the most sense and be least likely to "throw off" the benefits of IF. Leucine shows the highest anabolic response, and it is non glucogenic.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Box Squats or GHR is what really gets my gluteus maximus. One legged press is more of a quad and ham isolation exercise for me.



LMAO....dam...there were some girls in the gym that i wouldnt mind spotting me with some 3rd leg presses

LMFAO!!!

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Update: Chest

So today im not lifting...and im not lifting tomorrow either being that it's Easter.

Thursday I got in a really nice chest workout but Friday I slept all day...Im guessing my body finally gave up. Was good though b/c im back to 100% today...minus the soreness lol.

Chest Workout:

Bench(no arch, flat back):
barx10
135x10
225x16
225x12
225x7
225x7
Next set was extremely slow and strict. As slow as I could on the way down, paused at the bottom on my chest holding tension, then back up. Strip set.
275x1>225x1>135x8

Dumbells:
90x7
90x7
90x7

Incline:
135x10
185x5
185x6
135x10

Dumbell Incline:
55x15 squeezing at top
55x10 same as above
55x10 same as above

Dumbell/Barbell Incline SuperSet till failure:
135x>55x5>135x3>55x3>135x1
135x5>55x5>135x1>55x1

Floor Press:
135x8
225x6
135x12

And when the workout is over...you hit one more set.

135x6...held the 8th rep at top till it fell and my dad had to catch it.

Now the workout was over.

Friday I didnt lift. Today Im on a fast. Sunday Im breaking fast, but doing so in a strict manner. Monday or Tuesday Ill try to get a good back workout in. Next week Is the week before finals so the workouts will be accessory groups after back. Shoulders, biceps, triceps, cardio, abs....just stuff to keep me active but not take away from my studying.

 

[John Smeton]

different style of training and switching it up is a good thing in my opinion. I know you are much capable of going much heavier Andres

If you will check out my log I could use more support in it; although right now I am deloading and sprained my ankle, and getting ART therapy, I Hope to be better then ever this summer

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

different style of training and switching it up is a good thing in my opinion. I know you are much capable of going much heavier Andres

If you will check out my log I could use more support in it; although right now I am deloading and sprained my ankle, and getting ART therapy, I Hope to be better then ever this summer

You are correct. I am intentionally going light one chest day and going heavy the next.

And I'l get in there ASAP!

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Here is a Little FYI about morning wood:

Though commonly attributed to increased testosterone production, this is a misnomer. The morning wood is actually caused by the venus plexus surrounding the prostate being compressed by a full bladder. This does not allow the blood in the penis to drain as it normally would causing the penis to become engorged(an erection). The minute you pee, it goes down b/c venous circulation is being restored.

Now if are waking up literally horny with the desire to have sex this can be another story all together. But simple normal wood is not correlated to sex drive.

An interesting little fact I learned in anatomy....but it applies on a lot of peoples reviews of testboosters.

 

[John Smeton]

You are correct. I am intentionally going light one chest day and going heavy the next.

And I'l get in there ASAP!

your aLREADY there in strength my friend , now if only I can convert you to training bodybuilding for six months out of the year and doing powerlifting for 6 months I think you would do really well on stage.

Here is a Little FYI about morning wood:

Though commonly attributed to increased testosterone production, this is a misnomer. The morning wood is actually caused by the venus plexus surrounding the prostate being compressed by a full bladder. This does not allow the blood in the penis to drain as it normally would causing the penis to become engorged(an erection). The minute you pee, it goes down b/c venous circulation is being restored.

Now if are waking up literally horny with the desire to have sex this can be another story all together. But simple normal wood is not correlated to sex drive.

An interesting little fact I learned in anatomy....but it applies on a lot of peoples reviews of testboosters.

interesting

 

[MrKleen73]

Here is a Little FYI about morning wood:

Though commonly attributed to increased testosterone production, this is a misnomer. The morning wood is actually caused by the venus plexus surrounding the prostate being compressed by a full bladder. This does not allow the blood in the penis to drain as it normally would causing the penis to become engorged(an erection). The minute you pee, it goes down b/c venous circulation is being restored.

Now if are waking up literally horny with the desire to have sex this can be another story all together. But simple normal wood is not correlated to sex drive.

An interesting little fact I learned in anatomy....but it applies on a lot of peoples reviews of testboosters.

Now if you take the bigger picture into account then it can still be attributed to an increase in testosterone or more specifically androgens being increased. The prostate responds to excess androgens by growing, swelling, such growth or swelling could easily attribute to the increase in morning wood. A larger prostate causes more increased pressure causing an increase in morning wood occurring.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Now if you take the bigger picture into account then it can still be attributed to an increase in testosterone or more specifically androgens being increased. The prostate responds to excess androgens by growing, swelling, such growth or swelling could easily attribute to the increase in morning wood. A larger prostate causes more increased pressure causing an increase in morning wood occurring.

Now I know prostate swelling is more of a problem/issue with individuals that are older but as far as someone in the 20's, im not sure it would swell with a minor increase attributed to a testbooster. I am not well versed on the effects of endogenous testoserone increase and the prostates response to this so you may be very much right on this.

Ill have to do a little research to verify but at this point in the game Im tempted just to believe your word lol(knowing you have already done the research haha)

 

[DreamWeaver]

Now I know prostate swelling is more of a problem/issue with individuals that are older but as far as someone in the 20's, im not sure it would swell with a minor increase attributed to a testbooster. I am not well versed on the effects of endogenous testoserone increase and the prostates response to this so you may be very much right on this.

Ill have to do a little research to verify but at this point in the game Im tempted just to believe your word lol(knowing you have already done the research haha)

Yah herbals can give me these sides coupled with the age factor... cycle support clears it right up... incidently it has been renamed to Health Support...

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Yah herbals can give me these sides coupled with the age factor... cycle support clears it right up... incidently it has been renamed to Health Support...

Well with the name cycle support people may only assume is useful during and after cycles when it's really a great basic support supp good for general health.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

I was considering using Dexaprine...but I really cant get around the fact that I do not like the scientific data behind 3'5 and possible thyroid shutdown. Now granted there has been ample contrary analysis that 3'5 within moderation is not suppressive, but correct me if Im wrong but its the higher doses that get the best results.

Any input from my peers? I got awhile till I'll be making a purchase so Im no no rush.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Well with the name cycle support people may only assume is useful during and after cycles when it's really a great basic support supp good for general health.

Yah I started pointing this out last year when I started using it with herbs...

 

[EasyEJL]

I was considering using Dexaprine...but I really cant get around the fact that I do not like the scientific data behind 3'5 and possible thyroid shutdown. Now granted there has been ample contrary analysis that 3'5 within moderation is not suppressive, but correct me if Im wrong but its the higher doses that get the best results.

Any input from my peers? I got awhile till I'll be making a purchase so Im no no rush.

well, the thing is that the thyroid also does show the best bounceback even if suppressed out of the varied organs so perhaps a little less dangerous. who knows for sure tho

 

[MrKleen73]

Interesting. I have been avoiding the 3.5 for that reason as well but I was not aware that the thyroid was so resilient. I hear of so many people with thyroid issues I assumed it moderately frail regarding resilience.

Andres, I am not sure regarding the younger guys and test boosters but I know when I am on them I notice a difference. I also don't know that it would take much extra pressure to increase morning wood. Now my statement said think about I think, because that was me spit balling on the things I know for sure and how they could tie into the equation. I have never seen a study regarding this fact. Although I am curious if it has to do with free test levels more so than overall test levels. If free test levels being higher and possibly the things freeing them up not specifically taking the place of androgens in the prostate as we know there are definitely different SBHG affinity in different areas of the body. As to where nettle root acts almost directly on the tissues of the prostate, reducing the binding, although I don't "think" the high extracts in test boosters share the same ability as lower percentage extracts with other parts of the plant included. In the same aspect that saw palmetto has a more direct effect on the fatty and breast tissue. Which is why it is also used in high doses in things like Grow_Bust and what not to increase the size of breasts. :-0 So I wander if the different SBHG freeing agent is also a consideration here.

Although like you I tend to think more on the effects of the throughout the day random wood than I do a morning wood. Now, when I get morning wood that wants to stick around for a little bit after I have already relieved myself then I attribute that to libido because normally at that point I am so ready, I would stick it in a warm apple pie if someone left one on the table.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Well with the name cycle support people may only assume is useful during and after cycles when it's really a great basic support supp good for general health.

I hear that. More and more people are using it just a a everyday general health supp.

 

[SweetLou321]

different style of training and switching it up is a good thing in my opinion. I know you are much capable of going much heavier Andres

If you will check out my log I could use more support in it; although right now I am deloading and sprained my ankle, and getting ART therapy, I Hope to be better then ever this summer

link and ill join in

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Quick Update: Upper Back Light

1 glycobol+2 scoops maniac 30 minutes pre-workout

Pull Ups:
10,10,9,5,6

5 minute rest

Pull Downs: 1 minute rest between sets
120x12x12x12x8

5 minute rest

Close Grip Reverse Pull Downs: 1 minute rest between sets
120x10x10x10x6

5 minute rest

Seatd Row V-grip: 1 minute rest between sets
120x12x12x12x10
100x10

5 minute rest

Dumbell Pull Overs: 1 minute rest between sets
65x10x10x10x9

Thats all she wrote. I would like to hit lower back and biceps later this week. As well as 1 day for shoulders ad 1 day for triceps (short workouts).

Breaking out some of my stash and running it for a month. Might as well use it.

Current Stack:
Prime
TNA
Stoked
Glycobol
Maniac+RecoverPro
Fat Smack

Running the TNA and Prime for a month. Stoked I'll run for 8 weeks.

Diet today:
Meal 1: 1 cup bran cereal with 4 oz milk (~30 grams of fiber)
Meal 2: 6 ounces lean ground beef with 1/2 cup cheddar cheese
Meal 3,4 and 6 :23 ounces chicken breast(total) + 2-3 cups broccoli(total) and no dressing...just str8 raw broccoli
Meal 5(postworkout): 2 scoops dymatize XT

Note: High fiber in the morning. 1 high fat meal 1-2 hours after high fiber meal. Rest of day is very low fat, high protein and veggies. Will try this out for a bit see if it yeilds some gains (drop fat and gain strength). Card refeed this weekend will be EXTREMELY high fiber and filled with great low GI carbs. I'll probably have only 1 High GI meal of ramen noodles(100-200g of carbs in a sitting) or something to that nature.

Tomorrow is tilapia, YUM!

 

[SweetLou321]

Your dieting is very restricted for someone training for power. But good job regardless.

 

[John Smeton]

Yes Andres, your diet looks like your are losing body fat fast. (and I am not comparing my diet, I am calculating for your weight)

Why so low calories? are you do a "mini-cut" to control body fat and hormones? (which i think is a brilliant idea btw for controlling body fat)

btw are you doing a deload?

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Your dieting is very restricted for someone training for power. But good job regardless.

Restricted b/c I want to lose body fat. Im providing my body with the nutrients necessary to maintain LBM while maximizing its capacity to burn stored fat for energy. If my calculations serve me right, I have enough protein in my diet spread out sufficiently to prevent any catabolism. Any extra protein will be used for energy. Calories are low enough to prevent any storage.



Also Note that I am not going heavy every week for a reason. Im finding it easier to make gains strength wise when on caloric restriction when im not going heavy every week but take 1 week to going light and 1 week going heavy. Up until now it has served me well. We will see how this progresses when I implement more cardio.

Yes Andres, your diet looks like your are losing body fat fast. (and I am not comparing my diet, I am calculating for your weight)

Why so low calories? are you do a "mini-cut" to control body fat and hormones? (which i think is a brilliant idea btw for controlling body fat)

btw are you doing a deload?

Well I really cant call it a deload but in a sense yes. Im changing from pure powerlifting 1 week, to a more well rounded approach for overall muscle development the next week. The muscle development has lighter weights higher reps to allow for better form, more muscle activation, and overall strengthening the muscle as a whole to allow for greater strength gains in the long rung.

This switching back and forth in theory is going to allow me to get stronger and add more quality strength. The progression will be a bit slower but as long as im losing fat and getting stronger Im doing something right.

As far as diet I am experimenting with the above style diet to see if it going to speed up my fat loss process so I can reach my ideal competing weight sooner then later. This cut will last until I hit that weight range.

 

[MrKleen73]

Restricted b/c I want to lose body fat. Im providing my body with the nutrients necessary to maintain LBM while maximizing its capacity to burn stored fat for energy. If my calculations serve me right, I have enough protein in my diet spread out sufficiently to prevent any catabolism. Any extra protein will be used for energy. Calories are low enough to prevent any storage.



Also Note that I am not going heavy every week for a reason. Im finding it easier to make gains strength wise when on caloric restriction when im not going heavy every week but take 1 week to going light and 1 week going heavy. Up until now it has served me well. We will see how this progresses when I implement more cardio.



Well I really cant call it a deload but in a sense yes. Im changing from pure powerlifting 1 week, to a more well rounded approach for overall muscle development the next week. The muscle development has lighter weights higher reps to allow for better form, more muscle activation, and overall strengthening the muscle as a whole to allow for greater strength gains in the long rung.

This switching back and forth in theory is going to allow me to get stronger and add more quality strength. The progression will be a bit slower but as long as im losing fat and getting stronger Im doing something right.

As far as diet I am experimenting with the above style diet to see if it going to speed up my fat loss process so I can reach my ideal competing weight sooner then later. This cut will last until I hit that weight range.

Now who is the teacher?

We have to remember that training for strength is not calorie dependant. Far to many people think of lifting heavy means you must eat high calories. That just isn't so. Will eating a caloric surplus aid you in increasing strength absolutely but in a cut phase if you do not want to lose hard earned gains you still have to lift for power. He is allowing for more recovery by going to a pump / volume based workout every other week which also serves as a deload for the CNS and the joints considering he is not taxing it for long periods at a time. Just alternating one week that is heavy on the CNS and one not so hard on the joints or CNS.

If he wanted to take it one step farther he could do all machines the week of higher volume which is truly easy on the CNS, then all it has to do is either push or pull, no balancing or coordinating all of the support muscles, just moving weight through a fixed plane of motion.

Now when he goes to start really working hard on the increases again he can add in some calories slowly and only as needed because unless a super heavyweight he needs to be able to lift very heavy weight at the lowest body weight possible which is the goal of power lifting, to lift the most in your weight class the lower the class and higher the weights the better success. Many people have walked up to meets at 8% and kicked much ass. Imagine Dave Tate now that he is 6% going to about 8% and competing a 2 weight classes below where he already did very well for himself. Now we are talking about the goal.