DreamWeaver
Legend
Yah I am at rock bottom calorie wise, it's statting to get very tough as I have encountered a few minor health problems....
AI's Super Swole Stack...GoHard's Quest for Strength Absolute
- Thread starter GoHardOrGoHme
- Start date
Yah I am at rock bottom calorie wise, it's statting to get very tough as I have encountered a few minor health problems....
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
....this isnt good....
DreamWeaver
Legend
Unrelated to the diet mind you but it' makes thing tough while you're trying to prep...
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
Great looking workout Andres.
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
Updates:
Tuesday was Abs
Wednesday Legs:
Squat ATG:
135x10
225x6
225x2
315x1
315x1
225x10
225x8
Partials:
405x8
495x6
585x5
SuperSet: Front Squat/leg press:
135x10/10 platesx10
185x6/12 platesx10
225x1/14 platesx8--->16 platesx6--->225 on back squatx8
Leg Curl SuperSet: MAchine 1 and Machine 2
70x12/70x12
110x10/90x10
150x5---->50x15/50x6
Leg Curl Hold at top for more glutes:
50x10
Donkey Calf raises:
4 platesx12x10x10x6
Seated Calf raises:
2 platesx45x30x30x10x5
Been low carb for almost 2 weeks now. Strength and motivation is slowly climbing back up. Started Fat Smack the other day. In a week or so I may through in STOKED.
Pre-workout will be Maniac once it arrives. I love me some Maniac!
Tuesday was Abs
Wednesday Legs:
Squat ATG:
135x10
225x6
225x2
315x1
315x1
225x10
225x8
Partials:
405x8
495x6
585x5
SuperSet: Front Squat/leg press:
135x10/10 platesx10
185x6/12 platesx10
225x1/14 platesx8--->16 platesx6--->225 on back squatx8
Leg Curl SuperSet: MAchine 1 and Machine 2
70x12/70x12
110x10/90x10
150x5---->50x15/50x6
Leg Curl Hold at top for more glutes:
50x10
Donkey Calf raises:
4 platesx12x10x10x6
Seated Calf raises:
2 platesx45x30x30x10x5
Been low carb for almost 2 weeks now. Strength and motivation is slowly climbing back up. Started Fat Smack the other day. In a week or so I may through in STOKED.
Pre-workout will be Maniac once it arrives. I love me some Maniac!
MrKleen73
Legend
Excellent work, glad to hear the metabolic shift is taking place. I am still cutting up and it is going really well. I am truly enjoying my Intermittent Fasting protocol. I don't think I will go back to eating normally ever. Cutting up building muscle and still getting to eat carbs is pretty awesome!
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
I really gotta take a look at your diet more in depth when I got a minute. The idea really intrigues me.
MrKleen73
Legend
It is pretty amazing the effects of it and the freedom it allows. Many people continue to get stronger while cutting too.
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
I am waiting for the pink lemonade Maniac YUMMY!!!
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
Im so in love with the original flavor I havent even begun to think about the new pink lemonade! Fruit Punch Maniac with a scoop of red raspberry recovepro....now thats gonna be something to look forward to!
So I had to cram in an entire chest workout in 30 minutes...so rest was 30seconds to a minute
Bench:
135x12
225x12
245x6
225x6
225x4
Incline
135x10
185x6
135x8
Back to Bench 135x4
Back to incline 135x5
Bench 135x8
Dumdbell incline 55lbx12
Machine Military press
90x15x15x15
Cable Flies
5x15x10x12
Floor Press
135x8
225x2
Machine Bench Press
110x12
190x10
250x6
90x15
Ran to lab after the last set
So I had to cram in an entire chest workout in 30 minutes...so rest was 30seconds to a minute
Bench:
135x12
225x12
245x6
225x6
225x4
Incline
135x10
185x6
135x8
Back to Bench 135x4
Back to incline 135x5
Bench 135x8
Dumdbell incline 55lbx12
Machine Military press
90x15x15x15
Cable Flies
5x15x10x12
Floor Press
135x8
225x2
Machine Bench Press
110x12
190x10
250x6
90x15
Ran to lab after the last set
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
opworm:
Just popping in Andres, I see you are still killing it and still a beast!!!
Hows school going bud?
HEY JUDO!!! haha im not quite killing it like I would like. But Im taking it slow and easy and I will slowly push the weights higher and higher.
School is kicking my butt. Working 30+ hours a week plus a full graduate course load is intense. The only way im getting through everything is by the grace and will of God...i really dont know how i keep this pace up, I just pray that he gets me through each day and he does.
Im acing biochem and Gross Anatomy is kicking me in the face. Im above the average and im still getting my face kicked in. The average on most tests is an F....im not failing but i gotta keep pushing myself till the end or I will.
How you doing? I see you got a sweet rep deal with the new bad @ss on the block.
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
Hey guys hit a relatively quick back workout (about an hour or so). Small rest intervals and just tried to fry my back and grip
Back day:
The Back Quadrafecta:
Pull Downs, Standing Str8 Arm Pull downs, Seated Row, Assisted Chin Ups
The machines had numbers not weights
9x12 / 5x12 / 8x12 / 10
11x12 / 8x12 / 10x12 / 8
15x12 / 10x12 / 14x12 / 6
Pull Down drop set
20(maxed out machine)x6
16x5
12x6
9x10
5x8
Seated row Drop Set:
18x10
14x8
10x8
8x12
4x6
Str8 Arm Pull Down Drop Set:
14x8
10x10
6x10
4x10
Assisted Pull Down Drop Set: Increased weight pushing me up
4(no assistance)...6...4...6...8...5...3
Bent Over Row:
135x12
185x8
135x10
135x10
BOR Machine:
90x8
150x8
150x8
Lower Back Hyperextensions supersetted with cable rows:
+45lbx12 / 8x12......did 4 sets of this
Good Mornings:
45x10
135x10
135x10
Dumbell shrugs supersetted with Barbell behing the back shrugs:
60x10/135x10
75x10/135x10
75x10/135x10
Reverse grip pulldowns:
6x40
6x20
Called it a day after that. Felt muscularly exhausted now to study some gross anatomy!!
Ill have far more time to update and catch up with everyone once i get this killer semester over with.
Update on supplements:
Thinking about creating my own protein for post workout for True Protein
10% Hydrolyzed Whey Protein High Grade
10% Hydrolyzed Casein
40% Cold Filteration Whey Isolate
40% Micellar Casein
Opinions?
Back day:
The Back Quadrafecta:
Pull Downs, Standing Str8 Arm Pull downs, Seated Row, Assisted Chin Ups
The machines had numbers not weights
9x12 / 5x12 / 8x12 / 10
11x12 / 8x12 / 10x12 / 8
15x12 / 10x12 / 14x12 / 6
Pull Down drop set
20(maxed out machine)x6
16x5
12x6
9x10
5x8
Seated row Drop Set:
18x10
14x8
10x8
8x12
4x6
Str8 Arm Pull Down Drop Set:
14x8
10x10
6x10
4x10
Assisted Pull Down Drop Set: Increased weight pushing me up
4(no assistance)...6...4...6...8...5...3
Bent Over Row:
135x12
185x8
135x10
135x10
BOR Machine:
90x8
150x8
150x8
Lower Back Hyperextensions supersetted with cable rows:
+45lbx12 / 8x12......did 4 sets of this
Good Mornings:
45x10
135x10
135x10
Dumbell shrugs supersetted with Barbell behing the back shrugs:
60x10/135x10
75x10/135x10
75x10/135x10
Reverse grip pulldowns:
6x40
6x20
Called it a day after that. Felt muscularly exhausted now to study some gross anatomy!!
Ill have far more time to update and catch up with everyone once i get this killer semester over with.
Update on supplements:
Thinking about creating my own protein for post workout for True Protein
10% Hydrolyzed Whey Protein High Grade
10% Hydrolyzed Casein
40% Cold Filteration Whey Isolate
40% Micellar Casein
Opinions?
SweetLou321
Well-known member
protein types and what not are useless. Just get some good whey. Or whey/casien hydro. Mixing them would make the benifits of hydro useless. One or the other.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
Andres you know you have always been an inspiration to me, so when I say "You are killing it" than dammit you are killin it!!!
I couldnt imagine juggling 30 hours of work plus a full course load. I work 36 hours and was taking 2 classes and felt like I had 0 time. Bravo to you sir for sticking in it and making it all happen PLUS sparing the time to come on here and hang with us :thumbsup:
Congrats on biochem, I hear anatomy is nothing but memorization. Just hear facts and spit them back out. A professor at my college, for his final in one of his A&P classes he picks a spot on the blood and ask the student to tell them the complete journey and what happens along the way of a blood vessel starting here! :wtf:
Bad a$$ company indeed! When I was asked I was in total disbelief, I never even considered myself rep material and was even a little hesitant to accept. Felt like there would be a little pressure to be at a certain level and afraid of something I would say or do and make myself look like an a$$ and it would reflect on the company. I am so happy I joined though, the team I am with are all wonderful people and I have faith in Eric, especially since he just keeps banging out product after product.
Keep up the good work bro! Now go study!!!! :type:
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
This is where I would disagree. Types have specific benefits based on their properties.
The hydrolyzed has the largest spike in insulin and IGF-1 but die off quickly. Casein has minimal insulin spike but has a more prolonged rate of protein synthesis.
Hydro is there in 10% amounts due to the insulin spiking properties which supercede isolate. The cold filtration isolate retains many of the good properties such as immunoglobulins. This would allow me to not use any dextrose postworkout to increase protein synthesis.
Str8 whey concentrate is good but when trying to maximize natural gains the smallest difference resulting in a 5-10% increase in overal gains is worth it in my opinion.
And considering that protein is readily absorbed in its hydrolyzed form, i can start the anabolic phase of recovery within 15-30 minutes postworkout which can lead to greater recovery.
When it boils down to it, will it give you phenomenal gains like hormonals? heck no..But will it be a slight improvement to a concentrate/casein mixture, empirical data says yes so why not give it a shot.
50-60% of lifting is maximizing the biochemistry of nutrition to allow optimal output and recovery.
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
Andres you know you have always been an inspiration to me, so when I say "You are killing it" than dammit you are killin it!!!
I couldnt imagine juggling 30 hours of work plus a full course load. I work 36 hours and was taking 2 classes and felt like I had 0 time. Bravo to you sir for sticking in it and making it all happen PLUS sparing the time to come on here and hang with us :thumbsup:
Congrats on biochem, I hear anatomy is nothing but memorization. Just hear facts and spit them back out. A professor at my college, for his final in one of his A&P classes he picks a spot on the blood and ask the student to tell them the complete journey and what happens along the way of a blood vessel starting here! :wtf:
Bad a$$ company indeed! When I was asked I was in total disbelief, I never even considered myself rep material and was even a little hesitant to accept. Felt like there would be a little pressure to be at a certain level and afraid of something I would say or do and make myself look like an a$$ and it would reflect on the company. I am so happy I joined though, the team I am with are all wonderful people and I have faith in Eric, especially since he just keeps banging out product after product.
Keep up the good work bro! Now go study!!!! :type:
You have no idea how much your posts encourage me to keep pushing strong. I am always humbled by your encouragement.
And I wish i would be asked a question like that, easy compared to what im going through now. I gotta know everything....absolutely everything. Its overwhelming the amount that i need to memorize.
Thank you. And you are very well deserving of your rep position!
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
I like your thinking!!!
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
I feel you my man. Just gotta keep doing what you do and you can sleep when it is over!
DreamWeaver
Legend
Yah I will use a form of hydrolysate the last few weeks of prep....
MrKleen73
Legend
Not to beat a dead horse but how exactly would mixing whey and casein hydrosylate render the hydro useless? It would not slow down the rate it is absorbed one bit by them being mixed so where exactly would there be a loss of benefit from the Hydrosylate?
Some studies have disproved the myth that adding in slower digesting substrates does anything to slow down the rate of the easily digested substrates. UNLESS the meal in and of itself is so large that it signals the body to digest more slowly so as to not disrupt any of the other body functions since digestion in and of itself is an energy hog. Kind of like how a big batch job needs to be run in the background taking up much less processing power than it would say if noone was on the network. Okay guess who works in IT... Think of them as a quick win in a project, the whole meal is the project, the quick wins are the steps within that project, the easier steps are still completed first the stomach multitasks in that it begins digesting all at once the easily digestible stuff ends up in the intestines first in this situation the hydrolyzed protein, and or if there were peptides they would still end up there before the hydrolyzed protein, and if aminos were taken at the same time the aminos would still enter the bloodstream faster than the peptides, and the hydrolized proteins which would still be i the blood stream before slower digested substrates that were all swallowed at the same time. Same thing with fat, it does not lower the release of insulin in a meal as once believed.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
Someone posted that idea in a thread I was in and I disagreed..
From one of Scivations books..
Tom Ventuo book
Chuck Rudolph
Fat itself doesn't effect insulin but when combined with a meal I believe it does have an effect on it. At least from what I have read unless you have something that says otherwise? I havent really seen much on it but I dont really look since I have no reason to limit my fat intake.
John Smeton
Legend
Keep up the good work Andres
yep maniac and red rasp sound like something worth trying
yep maniac and red rasp sound like something worth trying
John Smeton
Legend
all good points. The only time you want to riase insulin is postworkout and you could first meal since glycogen stores are low ..I prefer low fats in my first meal. I also usually take bcaa's with or 30 minutes before my first meal
DreamWeaver
Legend
Right now I am taking BCAA's as soon as a get up then after my morning Cardio. I have a BCAA/EAA mix I use I'm using 24 grams and 12 grams of the mix. I had it done specifically for fast situations I think it was 50% BCAA's, 25% EAA's 15% L-glutmanine and 10% Taurine if memory serves...
Yah I can't wait to get my hands on some raspberry recoverpro....
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
I am also looking forward to the raspberry.
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
Hey guys I'll add to the convo a little later when I got a minute but just a quick update on workouts:
I was going either at parrallel or slightlty above, very wide stance.
Heavy Squat Day:
135x5
225x5
315x5
405x2
495x1
585x0 failed...but almost! Gonna work up to this and be shooting for this by the end of summer.
405x20...New PR
MOre about protein and BCAA!! Im lovin this discussion!
I was going either at parrallel or slightlty above, very wide stance.
Heavy Squat Day:
135x5
225x5
315x5
405x2
495x1
585x0 failed...but almost! Gonna work up to this and be shooting for this by the end of summer.
405x20...New PR
MOre about protein and BCAA!! Im lovin this discussion!
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
Nice job on the PR
DreamWeaver
Legend
Yah significant poundage for 20 reps...
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
Quick Update:
Chest Heavy:
Bench
barx50
135x5
225x5
315x1
335x1
365x1
385x1(dad helped a bit at sticking point)
Partials:
435x4(from top)
435x3(from a dead weight start)
Incline:
135x5
225x5
275x2...shoulder starting feeling off
225x5
225x5
Post workout:
2 scoops whey in 8 ounces milk and 7 oz of boneless, skinless chicken breast...really hungry post lift for some reason.
Chest Heavy:
Bench
barx50
135x5
225x5
315x1
335x1
365x1
385x1(dad helped a bit at sticking point)
Partials:
435x4(from top)
435x3(from a dead weight start)
Incline:
135x5
225x5
275x2...shoulder starting feeling off
225x5
225x5
Post workout:
2 scoops whey in 8 ounces milk and 7 oz of boneless, skinless chicken breast...really hungry post lift for some reason.
cousineerie
Member
That's some sick chest work, brah!
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
Good job Andres.
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
Thank you. Still working on my form. My but lifts off the bench so I gotta work on my arch and keep my butt on the bench.
Thank you Good sir
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
QUOTE=DreamWeaver;2833856]Right now I am taking BCAA's as soon as a get up then after my morning Cardio. I have a BCAA/EAA mix I use I'm using 24 grams and 12 grams of the mix. I had it done specifically for fast situations I think it was 50% BCAA's, 25% EAA's 15% L-glutmanine and 10% Taurine if memory serves...
Yah I can't wait to get my hands on some raspberry recoverpro....[/QUOTE]
Thats a good mix. Instantized?
Yah I can't wait to get my hands on some raspberry recoverpro....[/QUOTE]
Thats a good mix. Instantized?
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
I would disagree with this on the bases that insulin is the ultimate anabolic hormone. You want to spike insulin anytime you want increased muscle protein synthesis while always minimizing the amount able to be stored as adipose.
Raising insulin in the morning may be a great way to get your body out of the catabolic state you enter while you asleep.
Now if your cutting...this changes. You want to be in a catabolic state but specifically adipose catabolism which is why protein and amino acids become so important. They allow you to prevent muscle feeding.
BCAA's during this time isnt enough being that the main gluconeogenic amino acids are alanine and glutamine. Therefore EAA's + BCAAs + Glutamine throughout the day will theoretically prevent muscle catabolism. That or Hydrolyzed Casein and Hydrolyzed Whey mix.
SweetLou321
Well-known member
hey do some reading on leangains dot com. May change the way you view some of the points being discussed here. Its another way to look at things anyways.
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
Kleen is hitting up a lean gains diet so Im definitely looking into hitting that up in a while once ive been dieting for awhile and wanna switch it up and continue to drop fat.
MrKleen73
Legend
Invalid Link Removed
Effect of added fat on plasma glucose and insulin response to ingested potato in individuals with NIDDM.
Gannon MC, Ercan N, Westphal SA, Nuttall FQ.
Metabolic Research Laboratory, Minneapolis Veterans Affairs Medical Center, MN 55417.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: In normal subjects, ingestion of butter with potato resulted in considerably lower blood glucose levels but similar or higher insulin concentrations compared with those observed in the same subjects after potato ingestion alone. We determined whether butter ingested with potato would result in a greater stimulation in insulin secretion than ingestion of potato alone in subjects with NIDDM.
RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: Seven male subjects with untreated NIDDM ingested 50 g CHO alone or 50 g CHO with 5, 15, 30, or 50 g fat as a breakfast meal. Fat was ingested in the form of butter, and CHO was given in the form of potato. Subjects received 50 g glucose on two separate occasions for comparative purposes. The subjects also were given only water and were studied over the same time period (water control). Plasma glucose, glucagon, alpha-amino nitrogen, nonesterified fatty acids, serum insulin, C-peptide, and triglyceride concentrations were determined over 5 h. The integrated area responses were quantified over the 5-h period using the water control as a baseline.
RESULTS: The mean plasma glucose area response after ingestion of potato with or without the various amounts of butter were all similar and were 82% of that observed after ingestion of 50 g glucose. The mean insulin area response to potato alone was 532 pmol.h.L-1. The mean insulin area responses to potato plus 5,15,30, and 50 g of fat meals were 660,774,750, and 756 pmol.h.L-1, respectively. Thus, the mean insulin areas were all greater than for ingestion of potato alone, and a maximal response was observed with addition of 15 g fat (1.4-fold). The C-peptide data did not confirm an increase in insulin secretion. Overall the area responses after ingestion of meals containing fat were not different from the response to potato ingestion alone, although the responses were erratic. The glucagon area response was positive after ingestion of all fat containing meals except for that containing only 5 g fat, and there was a dose-response relationship. The plasma alpha-amino nitrogen and nonesterified fatty acid area responses were negative after potato ingestion and were not significantly different when fat was added. The serum triglyceride concentration increase was greater after the ingestion of butter with the potato as expected.
CONCLUSIONS: In contrast to the results in normal subjects after ingestion of butter with potato, the glucose response was not smaller in subjects with NIDDM. The insulin response was greater. The insulin area response data indicated the presence of a dose-response relationship. Whether similar responses will be observed with other dietary fat and CHO sources remains to be determined.
Now regarding some of the quotes, from the things I have read, it is the sheer size of a meal not simply caloric or fat content that makes the bolus entry smaller slowing digestion and not simply the addition of fats to the meal.
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
hmmm interesting article...there is an original article using normal subjects. Lets see if I can find that one and post it up
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
BacK Update:
Lifted after open lab today. I did deadlifts...but one of the workers there told me to stop at 500 b/c of a no slamming the weight policy(deans office is supposedly right below the gym). I said...im not slamming...im putting down it down as softly as i can...but its 500lbs. Eh to make a long story short I had to lighten the weight and finished earlier then i would have liked b/c i wasnt about to be a douche about it.
Deadlift:
135x8
135x5
225x5
315x3
315x3
405x1
405x1
455x1
500x1
405x3...so controlled that not a sound was made when it hit the floor each time>315x8 with the same amount of control
Hit some dumbell shrugs and neck.
After the workout I walked up to the lady who told me stop and I apologized if I came off the slightest bit combative(which I was very angry when she told me to stop deadlifting...but I held it all back but realized that i might have subconciously come off confrontational) and that I know she is just doing her job. She said it's ok and not to worry b/c I was actually not confrontational in the least(phew) when she told me to stop. We spoke for a bit and she said that I can talk to the head guy and deadlift outside so I dont bother anyone or break any rules.
All in all wish I could have gone a couple more sets at 500 or more but it is what it is.
This week is light and intense.
Lifted after open lab today. I did deadlifts...but one of the workers there told me to stop at 500 b/c of a no slamming the weight policy(deans office is supposedly right below the gym). I said...im not slamming...im putting down it down as softly as i can...but its 500lbs. Eh to make a long story short I had to lighten the weight and finished earlier then i would have liked b/c i wasnt about to be a douche about it.
Deadlift:
135x8
135x5
225x5
315x3
315x3
405x1
405x1
455x1
500x1
405x3...so controlled that not a sound was made when it hit the floor each time>315x8 with the same amount of control
Hit some dumbell shrugs and neck.
After the workout I walked up to the lady who told me stop and I apologized if I came off the slightest bit combative(which I was very angry when she told me to stop deadlifting...but I held it all back but realized that i might have subconciously come off confrontational) and that I know she is just doing her job. She said it's ok and not to worry b/c I was actually not confrontational in the least(phew) when she told me to stop. We spoke for a bit and she said that I can talk to the head guy and deadlift outside so I dont bother anyone or break any rules.
All in all wish I could have gone a couple more sets at 500 or more but it is what it is.
This week is light and intense.
John Smeton
Legend
very good Andres them slow, controlled deadlifts recruit more muscle and will make you much more sore and less injury prone then putting a lot of weight and bouncing it(which I have done in the past)
MrKleen73
Legend
Yeah that sounds great would be very interested in seeing it.
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
Here is the original study on normal men:
Invalid Link Removed
Effect of added fat on the plasma glucose and insulin response to ingested potato given in various combinations as two meals in normal individuals.
Ercan N, Gannon MC, Nuttall FQ.
Metabolic Research Laboratory, Minneapolis Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Minnesota 55417.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: In normal subjects, ingestion of fat with potato in a morning meal resulted in a decrease in the glucose response. Therefore, we wished to determine whether a fat-induced decrease in blood glucose also would be observed after a second identical meal. In addition, we were interested in determining if fat ingestion with a morning meal would have an effect on the blood glucose and insulin responses to a second meal not containing fat.
RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: Nine healthy male subjects ingested two meals consisting of an amount of potato containing 50 g carbohydrate, either alone or with 50 g fat as butter. The meals were served in four combinations as follows: 1) potato for the first meal, potato for the second meal; 2) potato for the first meal, potato with fat for the second meal; 3) potato with fat for the first meal, potato for the second meal; and 4) potato with fat for the first meal, potato with fat for the second meal. Meals were ingested at 8:00 A.M. and noon. Plasma glucose and C-peptide, serum insulin, triglyceride, and free fatty acid (FFA) concentrations were determined over an 8-h period. The integrated area responses to the meals were quantified over the subsequent 4-h period using the fasting value or the noon value as baseline for the first and second meals, respectively.
RESULTS: When the first meal contained potato only, the glucose area response to the second meal was significantly less when the second meal contained fat. However, fat ingestion had no effect on the glucose area response to the second meal when fat was present in the first meal. The insulin area responses to the first and second meals were similar after ingestion of potato or potato with fat. However, the insulin response to the second meal always was less than that to the first meal. The C-peptide area responses after ingestion of the second meal also were all higher than those after the first meal. The triglyceride area responses were slightly negative after ingestion of potato alone in the first meal. When fat was ingested, they were positive. When the first meal contained fat but the second meal did not, there was a rise in triglyceride concentration after the second meal as well as after the first meal. That is, a rise occurred without ingestion of fat with the second meal. If fat was present in the second meal the rise was even greater. The FFA area responses were similar to the triglyceride area responses.
CONCLUSIONS: When fat was ingested with carbohydrate in either the first or second meal, the glucose area response was decreased. However, when both meals contained fat, a decrease in the glucose area response did not occur with the second meal. The glucose area responses all were greater after the second meal compared with those after the first meal, i.e., the opposite of a Staub-Traugott effect was observed. The insulin area responses to the first and second meals were similar whether fat was ingested or not.
Invalid Link Removed
Effect of added fat on the plasma glucose and insulin response to ingested potato given in various combinations as two meals in normal individuals.
Ercan N, Gannon MC, Nuttall FQ.
Metabolic Research Laboratory, Minneapolis Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Minnesota 55417.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: In normal subjects, ingestion of fat with potato in a morning meal resulted in a decrease in the glucose response. Therefore, we wished to determine whether a fat-induced decrease in blood glucose also would be observed after a second identical meal. In addition, we were interested in determining if fat ingestion with a morning meal would have an effect on the blood glucose and insulin responses to a second meal not containing fat.
RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: Nine healthy male subjects ingested two meals consisting of an amount of potato containing 50 g carbohydrate, either alone or with 50 g fat as butter. The meals were served in four combinations as follows: 1) potato for the first meal, potato for the second meal; 2) potato for the first meal, potato with fat for the second meal; 3) potato with fat for the first meal, potato for the second meal; and 4) potato with fat for the first meal, potato with fat for the second meal. Meals were ingested at 8:00 A.M. and noon. Plasma glucose and C-peptide, serum insulin, triglyceride, and free fatty acid (FFA) concentrations were determined over an 8-h period. The integrated area responses to the meals were quantified over the subsequent 4-h period using the fasting value or the noon value as baseline for the first and second meals, respectively.
RESULTS: When the first meal contained potato only, the glucose area response to the second meal was significantly less when the second meal contained fat. However, fat ingestion had no effect on the glucose area response to the second meal when fat was present in the first meal. The insulin area responses to the first and second meals were similar after ingestion of potato or potato with fat. However, the insulin response to the second meal always was less than that to the first meal. The C-peptide area responses after ingestion of the second meal also were all higher than those after the first meal. The triglyceride area responses were slightly negative after ingestion of potato alone in the first meal. When fat was ingested, they were positive. When the first meal contained fat but the second meal did not, there was a rise in triglyceride concentration after the second meal as well as after the first meal. That is, a rise occurred without ingestion of fat with the second meal. If fat was present in the second meal the rise was even greater. The FFA area responses were similar to the triglyceride area responses.
CONCLUSIONS: When fat was ingested with carbohydrate in either the first or second meal, the glucose area response was decreased. However, when both meals contained fat, a decrease in the glucose area response did not occur with the second meal. The glucose area responses all were greater after the second meal compared with those after the first meal, i.e., the opposite of a Staub-Traugott effect was observed. The insulin area responses to the first and second meals were similar whether fat was ingested or not.
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
The effect of fat and carbohydrate on plasma glucose, insulin, C-peptide, and triglycerides in normal male subjects.
Gannon MC, Nuttall FQ, Westphal SA, Seaquist ER.
Metabolic Research Laboratory (111G), VA Medical Center, Minneapolis, MN 55417.
Abstract
Ten normal subjects were given 50 g starch, or 50 g starch + 50 g fat as a breakfast meal. The starch was given in the form of potato; the fat was given in the form of butter. The meals were ingested at 8 a.m. Plasma glucose, insulin, C-peptide, and triglyceride concentrations were measured at various time points for 4 hours after each meal. The net 4-hour postprandial area responses to the ingested meals were determined using the trapezoid rule, with the fasting glucose concentration, measured at the same time points for 4 hours as a baseline. The glucose area response was 2.2 mmol hour/l following the potato meal. This was significantly reduced following ingestion of the meal containing fat (1.3 mmol hour/l) (p < 0.01). The insulin area response was slightly greater following the meal containing fat (459 pmol hour/l) compared to potato alone (423 pmol hour/l) (p < 0.01). The C-peptide area response following the meal containing fat was 0.80 pmol hour/ml, clearly greater than following potato alone (0.58 pmol hour/ml) (p < 0.01). The triglyceride area response also was much greater following the meal containing fat compared to potato alone (0.74 and 0.08 mmol hour/l, respectively). The mechanism of the attenuated glucose response to carbohydrate ingestion with a fat-containing meal is unknown. It may be due to the release of an enteric hormone that increases glucose disposal, either directly or indirectly, through insulin.
Gannon MC, Nuttall FQ, Westphal SA, Seaquist ER.
Metabolic Research Laboratory (111G), VA Medical Center, Minneapolis, MN 55417.
Abstract
Ten normal subjects were given 50 g starch, or 50 g starch + 50 g fat as a breakfast meal. The starch was given in the form of potato; the fat was given in the form of butter. The meals were ingested at 8 a.m. Plasma glucose, insulin, C-peptide, and triglyceride concentrations were measured at various time points for 4 hours after each meal. The net 4-hour postprandial area responses to the ingested meals were determined using the trapezoid rule, with the fasting glucose concentration, measured at the same time points for 4 hours as a baseline. The glucose area response was 2.2 mmol hour/l following the potato meal. This was significantly reduced following ingestion of the meal containing fat (1.3 mmol hour/l) (p < 0.01). The insulin area response was slightly greater following the meal containing fat (459 pmol hour/l) compared to potato alone (423 pmol hour/l) (p < 0.01). The C-peptide area response following the meal containing fat was 0.80 pmol hour/ml, clearly greater than following potato alone (0.58 pmol hour/ml) (p < 0.01). The triglyceride area response also was much greater following the meal containing fat compared to potato alone (0.74 and 0.08 mmol hour/l, respectively). The mechanism of the attenuated glucose response to carbohydrate ingestion with a fat-containing meal is unknown. It may be due to the release of an enteric hormone that increases glucose disposal, either directly or indirectly, through insulin.
EasyEJL
Never enough
On the partial presses, i've started doing some interesting partials. Just for flys, and just on the fly machine. What i'm doing is fully stretched through first half of ROM (more or less) for a low but requiring effort weight, and then separately after doing my working sets of that resetting the arms to start at halfway through the rom, and doing from there to center with a heavier weight. Main reasoning is that you really can't at full stretch and over the start of the ROM work with a weight as heavy as you can for that center part.
GoHardOrGoHme
Board Sponsor
This sounds like its focusing more on the pump and overall shape of the chest. Do you change the placement of your hands to incorporate different areas of the chest?
This sounds interesting...i may add these on my light chest days
MrKleen73
Legend
So as said before the insulin reaction is the same or greater in both situations, IE the fat content does not blunt the insulin response and as you can see if actually increases it slightly. Not the glucose response but the insulin response. Obviously glucose and insulin reactions are not completely dependent on each other. Either way the increase in insulin is there and that means storage capacity is increased, shuttling protein and whatever other nutrients into the muscle post workout whether fat is involved in the equation or not. As already known the body does not typically store fat post workout so no need to obsess over a bit of fat being in the post workout window. Many people who do carb ups actually prefer to do them in the presence of fat perhaps do to the bolus getting smaller slowing digestion of the carbs while not lowering the insulin response keeping the anabolic event longer giving the muscle time to gradually take up the glycogen as it is released into the bloodstream. Now that is just my thought process on the matter anyone for discussion here?
EasyEJL
Never enough
no change in hand position as i'm using the machine where your elbows are on the pads. The main reason was I shifted to using that machine was I was getting up to doing 80lbs on cable flys, but it was causing too much elbow pain. I'm old with crappy joints
The other reason was that i'm trying to build the inner edge of the pecs more as I have a fair gap there, so I figure the heavier tension thru the central part of the ROM is more likely to help
MrKleen73
Legend
no change in hand position as i'm using the machine where your elbows are on the pads. The main reason was I shifted to using that machine was I was getting up to doing 80lbs on cable flys, but it was causing too much elbow pain. I'm old with crappy joints
This is why I prefer using some Hammer Strength for my chest training. The range of motion is greater for the pecs than a BB, or other machines.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
AWESOME articles Andres!! Big thanks for posting them. I was just about to respond to the study Chris posted and say "but hey those are diabetics" but then say yours..
I am still tryna get a grasp on everything, my understanding on how fat intake effects the insulin response was based upon the writings of some pretty well known people in the industry, I guess it was my fault for not questioning it an looking further into it, I just kind of took it as fact considering the people stating it in my readings.
The bold portion interest me the most here. I have been trying to wrap my head around the relation of blood sugar and the insulin response. I recently got me a blood glucose meter and was going to do some test with various nutrient partioners ( ALA, NA-R-ALA, Barberine, etc) and was wondering the relation of the two. So far my understanding is insulin is released when a certain level of blood sugar is present in the body in order to decrease the blood sugar level. I was going to test myself after meals and after ingestion of whatever supplement I am taking just to see their effect and try and have a better understanding. For example one test I want to do is compare NA-R-ALA and ALA and their ability to induce hypoglycemia prior to bed. I would like to see what my blood sugar level is at after I take whatever supplement and then again after I eat x amount of carbs. See if anyone of them make the blood sugar more stable.
If you have any input on any of this Chris or anyone I would love to hear..
Now as for Insulin, I honestly think it is overrated in the bodybuilding realm. I try and keep my blood sugar balanced throughout the day and avoid insulin spikes. Insulin spikes from carbs are NOT needed to shuttle nutrients. I think what people tend to get confused over is that the "anabolic hormone" isnt really insulin but Insulin-like growth factor-1. IGF-1 has a more prolonged effect in muscle protein synthesis and in order for IGF-1 to be released, there needs to be a little bit of growth hormone release as well to trigger it, which can happen during the next 20+ hours after a very intense workout. IGF-1 is the hormone you want released for growth and it requires a little spurt of growth hormone to happen and the growth hormone can be completely blocked by dietary carb immediately after the workout, even if consumed in only tiny amounts.
Disclaimer:
Again I am no expert in ANY of this and in fact I am very new to really getting into how things work and LOVE just learning about it all and this convo has been great so far. My above statements are all based upon information I have read and I hope in no way I am coming off as a "know it all" or challenging any of you guys
I am still tryna get a grasp on everything, my understanding on how fat intake effects the insulin response was based upon the writings of some pretty well known people in the industry, I guess it was my fault for not questioning it an looking further into it, I just kind of took it as fact considering the people stating it in my readings.
The bold portion interest me the most here. I have been trying to wrap my head around the relation of blood sugar and the insulin response. I recently got me a blood glucose meter and was going to do some test with various nutrient partioners ( ALA, NA-R-ALA, Barberine, etc) and was wondering the relation of the two. So far my understanding is insulin is released when a certain level of blood sugar is present in the body in order to decrease the blood sugar level. I was going to test myself after meals and after ingestion of whatever supplement I am taking just to see their effect and try and have a better understanding. For example one test I want to do is compare NA-R-ALA and ALA and their ability to induce hypoglycemia prior to bed. I would like to see what my blood sugar level is at after I take whatever supplement and then again after I eat x amount of carbs. See if anyone of them make the blood sugar more stable.
If you have any input on any of this Chris or anyone I would love to hear..
Now as for Insulin, I honestly think it is overrated in the bodybuilding realm. I try and keep my blood sugar balanced throughout the day and avoid insulin spikes. Insulin spikes from carbs are NOT needed to shuttle nutrients. I think what people tend to get confused over is that the "anabolic hormone" isnt really insulin but Insulin-like growth factor-1. IGF-1 has a more prolonged effect in muscle protein synthesis and in order for IGF-1 to be released, there needs to be a little bit of growth hormone release as well to trigger it, which can happen during the next 20+ hours after a very intense workout. IGF-1 is the hormone you want released for growth and it requires a little spurt of growth hormone to happen and the growth hormone can be completely blocked by dietary carb immediately after the workout, even if consumed in only tiny amounts.
Disclaimer:
Again I am no expert in ANY of this and in fact I am very new to really getting into how things work and LOVE just learning about it all and this convo has been great so far. My above statements are all based upon information I have read and I hope in no way I am coming off as a "know it all" or challenging any of you guys