The 2012 bug is catching on!

[AE14]

AE what are your spiritual beliefs?

I dont believe I actually have any. I do think that in a sense there is a type of karma out there, but one a scale I do not understand. Outside of that, I believe that these questions are entirely unanswerable, and are laughable (similar to the way The Buddha responded when asked if he was a god)

I watched an interesting show on the History or Discovery channel the other night that made a compelling argument for ancient nuclear wars in India, between rival factions of forces that dominated the skies at the time. It looked like the scientific evidence jibed well with the old texts, and the Bible speaks of such things in antiquity as well.

It's not difficult for me to consider that there may be something to it, because I see no other driving force for the rumors to still persist if it were simply based on primitive fables. There must be some truth in it that could be extracted with careful analysis. I also don't see any imperative (much less means) for the high correspondence of these myths between diverse global cultures and greatly differing religious ideologies. Borrowing old stories to refashion? I just don't see an advantage in such regression, and don't see how it would have endured modernization if there weren't something to it.

I have seen the show you are talking about and I have read the texts. Additionally, I have also seen the cave paintings and ancient sculptures. There is a lot of evidence to support it. On of the coolest things to me are sites like Puma Punku and Tiwanaku. Totally unexplainable imo
I do think there is evidence to support the anceint texts in this regard, however it is funny that the OT is new in comparison to the others

 

[chocolatemilk]

I dont believe I actually have any. I do think that in a sense there is a type of karma out there, but one a scale I do not understand. Outside of that, I believe that these questions are entirely unanswerable, and are laughable (similar to the way The Buddha responded when asked if he was a god)

Well the Buddha thought asking these kinds of questions won't get you anywhere. Questions about life after death, questions about God..... I don't agree with this.

Trying to answer these questions have led to some of mankind's greatest philosophical literature throughout history (which no doubt have influenced some of the greatest minds amongst humanity). Trying to answer these questions have put meaning into my life instead of just "drifting" through it waiting for the unveiling of "the meaning of life" at my death (which I'm not even sure will happen).

I would never describe these questions as laughable, for they have no doubt influenced human society in great ways.

So what exactly do you believe about God? That he may or may not exist but we can never prove it? Is that where you stand?

 

[AE14]

Well the Buddha thought asking these kinds of questions won't get you anywhere. Questions about life after death, questions about God..... I don't agree with this.

Trying to answer these questions have led to some of mankind's greatest philosophical literature throughout history (which no doubt have influenced some of the greatest minds amongst humanity). Trying to answer these questions have put meaning into my life instead of just "drifting" through it waiting for the unveiling of "the meaning of life" at my death (which I'm not even sure will happen).

I would never describe these questions as laughable, for they have no doubt influenced human society in great ways.

So what exactly do you believe about God? That he may or may not exist but we can never prove it? Is that where you stand?

I tend to agree with the Buddha. No doubt that they have influenced history (both good and bad)but they are truly pointless.

I personally believe there is nothing there. I dont believe it has given me any meaning in my life. I have searched, and found nothing. It is no different then any other research that I have done for any other topic in my life.

 

[chocolatemilk]

I tend to agree with the Buddha. No doubt that they have influenced history (both good and bad)but they are truly pointless.

I personally believe there is nothing there. I dont believe it has given me any meaning in my life. I have searched, and found nothing. It is no different then any other research that I have done for any other topic in my life.

If they have influenced history in a good way, how can they be pointless? How can anything good be pointless? Do you believe in being a good man, living life with virtue and respect? Do you try to live your life in this fashion? If yes, why? Do you see value in it?

What do you make of human intelligence then? Our intelligence doesn't shock you at all? You don't wonder how something like this could have possibly developed through evolution? When you look around the planet, and you see monkeys eating ants with sticks, and then you peer into human society and you see me typing on a laptop to you who is far away geographically... you don't see anything weird in the way "we" are? Weird enough to question ... "Hey, something weird is going on within human beings... something I don't see anywhere else in the natural world."

You don't believe something "could" be there simply because of the way we humans are? We are pretty special. When it comes down to it, we will explain everything about the universe, reality, nature, but we will never understand the construct of the human mind.

 

[AE14]

If they have influenced history in a good way, how can they be pointless? How can anything good be pointless? Do you believe in being a good man, living life with virtue and respect? Do you try to live your life in this fashion? If yes, why? Do you see value in it?

In essence, it really comes down to the subjective nature of good. In terms of being a good man, I try to live a very honest life. Why? It was how I was raised and how I raise my daughter.

What do you make of human intelligence then? Our intelligence doesn't shock you at all? You don't wonder how something like this could have possibly developed through evolution? When you look around the planet, and you see monkeys eating ants with sticks, and then you peer into human society and you see me typing on a laptop to you who is far away geographically... you don't see anything weird in the way "we" are? Weird enough to question ... "Hey, something weird is going on within human beings... something I don't see anywhere else in the natural world."

Should the intelligence of the human race shock me? If so, why?

To me, our brains have changed greatly over the many millenia that humans have soured the earth. Some of those changes are for the better and some not. I think there is something to be said for that monkee eating ants on a stick.

You don't believe something "could" be there simply because of the way we humans are? We are pretty special. When it comes down to it, we will explain everything about the universe, reality, nature, but we will never understand the construct of the human mind.

I see your point to an extent. I am not totally in agreement with you that the human race is so special. There was a study done that stated the following:
If all insects disappeared from Earth, human life would go extinct within 50 years. If all human life disappeared from Earth, ALL other life forms would statistically flourish in that same period". Are we really that special?

 

[B5150]

I have searched, and found nothing. It is no different then any other research that I have done for any other topic in my life.

"You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13

As long as you desire to satisfy your desire for evidence that is natural and logical you will very likely never find Him, the supernatural God.

As much as you would like to produce lemonade, you can't make lemonade from oranges.

There was a study done that stated the following:
If all insects disappeared from Earth, human life would go extinct within 50 years. If all human life disappeared from Earth, ALL other life forms would statistically flourish in that same period". Are we really that special?

"The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it." Genesis 2:15

Yeah. I tend to believe we are.

Though we have failed to a great extent in many aspects of our responsibilities, we are instructed to care for the creation (the Earth and all in it). The creation (the Earth and all in it) is not instructed to care for us. Although it may thrive or flourish without us, it is no longer under our care, therefore thriving and flourishing outside of its intended purpose or design.

 

[chocolatemilk]

In essence, it really comes down to the subjective nature of good. In terms of being a good man, I try to live a very honest life. Why? It was how I was raised and how I raise my daughter.

You have chosen to live an honest life. I doubt it's solely because that's how you were raised... but you also feel it's the right way if you're raising your daughter this way. All cultures in the world can recognize a smile.. it is universal. I believe the essence of "good" is likewise universal.

Should the intelligence of the human race shock me? If so, why?

To me, our brains have changed greatly over the many millenia that humans have soured the earth. Some of those changes are for the better and some not. I think there is something to be said for that monkee eating ants on a stick.

It should shock you. The only other place you find intelligence like ours is within the structure of the universe. And that surpasses our knowledge by a long shot.

There is something to be said for the monkey eating ants with a stick... but there is something MORE to be said about the animal sitting on laptop sending wireless language encoded messages through the airwaves. We are just animals. I don't get what miraculous thing happened within us to get us where we are. It's so mysterious and shocking to me it carries a divine aspect.

So then AE... do you believe we are the highest forms of intelligence? Clearly we are intelligent... now are we as far is it gets? Because clearly the universe order surpasses our knowledge. So that right there signifies higher forms of intelligence.

What do you make of the fish developing an air bladder deep in the ocean... millions of years before stepping on land? Who or what was guiding this development? Nature?

I see your point to an extent. I am not totally in agreement with you that the human race is so special. There was a study done that stated the following:
If all insects disappeared from Earth, human life would go extinct within 50 years. If all human life disappeared from Earth, ALL other life forms would statistically flourish in that same period". Are we really that special?

Well... if we went extinct, and ALL other life forms flourished after... regardless of whether that makes us good or bad... it DOES make us special. Look at the impact we had. It is special... it is significant. We are powerful beyond measure. We have the capacity to destroy an ENTIRE planet lol.

 

[SELFofGOD]

We humans are special in the way Cancer is special.
We spread out and consume.
Polluting and killing the earth.
So sure we are special.

But to say we are the most intellegent ...I am not sure about that.

In the end Belief in a God or a higher power will allways come down to A Persons Own Personal Need to make sense of things.

After being presented with historical proof and facts the Believer will allways refer back to " Well I have experienced and felt the presence etc etc "


" You can not make lemonade out of Oranges "
Well now how da hell can I argue with that ??? :bigok:

 

[chocolatemilk]

We humans are special in the way Cancer is special.
We spread out and consume.
Polluting and killing the earth.
So sure we are special.

But to say we are the most intellegent ...I am not sure about that.

In the end Belief in a God or a higher power will allways come down to A Persons Own Personal Need to make sense of things.

After being presented with historical proof and facts the Believer will allways refer back to " Well I have experienced and felt the presence etc etc "


" You can not make lemonade out of Oranges "
Well now how da hell can I argue with that ??? :bigok:

That's very true on all accounts.

To say we are special... I don't mean it in a good or bad way. Just that we are very significant. There is something significant about us.

Because just as we are like a cancer,
we have come to heal cancer in others through medicine.

Just like we have come to put creatures into extinction,
we have developed the capability to create amazing creatures through genetic modifications.

Just as we pollute the earth,
we can develop a sustainable way of life and even improve conditions on this planet.

To denounce our intelligence based on the wrong choices we make does not hold true. Regardless of whether we kill the planet, or rejuvenate it and improve it, we are intelligent beings.

And I can tell you 100% there is life outside of our planet. But I can never tell you there might be intelligent life beyond this planet. We don't understand intelligent life to know how it came to be to say for certain it will exist beyond Earth. We just know of biological life... and we know for a damn fact there is more biological life in our Universe. But intelligent life? Hmmmm... this is a tough one. So in my eyes, we are special.

 

[SELFofGOD]

We as humans IMO are still in our infancy. We have a long long way to go and evolve ( if we make it b4 killing ourselfs ) before we can even get close to understand the reasons behind the universe.

 

[AE14]

That's very true on all accounts.

To say we are special... I don't mean it in a good or bad way. Just that we are very significant. There is something significant about us.

Because just as we are like a cancer,
we have come to heal cancer in others through medicine.

Just like we have come to put creatures into extinction,
we have developed the capability to create amazing creatures through genetic modifications.

Just as we pollute the earth,
we can develop a sustainable way of life and even improve conditions on this planet.

To denounce our intelligence based on the wrong choices we make does not hold true. Regardless of whether we kill the planet, or rejuvenate it and improve it, we are intelligent beings.

And I can tell you 100% there is life outside of our planet. But I can never tell you there might be intelligent life beyond this planet. We don't understand intelligent life to know how it came to be to say for certain it will exist beyond Earth. We just know of biological life... and we know for a damn fact there is more biological life in our Universe. But intelligent life? Hmmmm... this is a tough one. So in my eyes, we are special.

Special and significant are two entirely different ideas. Have we as humans been significant? Of course, and we will continue to be. However, I agree with Self, I do not believe we are the most intelligent.

We as humans IMO are still in our infancy. We have a long long way to go and evolve ( if we make it b4 killing ourselfs ) before we can even get close to understand the reasons behind the universe.

Reps to you sir

 

[Flaw]

We as humans IMO are still in our infancy. We have a long long way to go and evolve ( if we make it b4 killing ourselfs ) before we can even get close to understand the reasons behind the universe.

Imagine if we lived a 1,000 years or more. The wisdom we would inherit. The problem is we die. What we achieve in our lifetime makes no difference if we can't live to see the outcome. In the end I don't ever see us making something out of nothing. The whole foundation of Human science is making something out of something else.

 

[chocolatemilk]

However, I agree with Self, I do not believe we are the most intelligent.

Ok rank organisms that we have discovered in our universe so far by intelligence? Who get's the number one spot?

We have won the tournament of evolution because of our intelligence. You can't denounce us from being the most intelligent organism.

And special and significant, they are not synonyms of each other so you're right. They mean different things. But I meant them in the same way in my mind when saying it.

 

[AE14]

Ok rank organisms that we have discovered in our universe so far by intelligence? Who get's the number one spot?

We have won the tournament of evolution because of our intelligence. You can't denounce us from being the most intelligent organism.

And special and significant, they are not synonyms of each other so you're right. They mean different things. But I meant them in the same way in my mind when saying it.

Lets look at it this way.....are we really that intelligent when we have struggled to live with what allows our surroundings to strive? Not a tree hugger rant, but I think we all know that we as humans have been a plague on this planet.

There is no denying our creativity, our forward thinking, however, I think other creatures are far more adept in their intelligence when it comes to dealing with where they live.

 

[Flaw]

This is a point I made also, that our understanding is subject to preconception. As kids, we literally take EVERYTHING on faith, and we become the product of our parental programming. For the most part, we are neurologically hardwired and psychologically scripted for the rest of our lives by the age of 5-6 years old.

"The moment a little boy is concerned with which is a jay and which is a sparrow, he can no longer see the birds or hear them sing." - Eric Berne

I completely agree. I recently was reading a article in GQ magazine. A interview with sylvester stallone. He talks about how his parents divorced and his mom was not very affectionate. He remembers her kissing him twice.
He says:

"You don't ever, ever get over that. There's no closure for the things that happen during your childhood. You're wet clay, and that's a dent that's been put in the clay. You can't buff or sand it out: it'll always have that fissure. So you've got to be careful, what you say to a kid; it buries itself in the heart like a hatchet and you can't fix the wound."

It would be foolish to say your upbringing does not effect your decisions as a adult.

 

[SELFofGOD]

WHAT are you talking about FLAW ???

Are you saying that becuase parents teach their children religion they grow up to be religious ?

Originally Posted by DR.D
This is a point I made also, that our understanding is subject to preconception. As kids, we literally take EVERYTHING on faith, and we become the product of our parental programming. For the most part, we are neurologically hardwired and psychologically scripted for the rest of our lives by the age of 5-6 years old.

So I guess then everyone here still believes in the toothfairy , santa, and everything else then too since we are hardwired with the lies of our parrents ?

Well as you can guess I do not agree at all with DR. D. Iam sure he will pop in here soon enough and enlightin me on what he meant by that. But reading that qoute in english I still say no not true.

Many people grow up in abusive homes yet when they grow up and have a family of their own they make sure to treat their children correctly.
Same goes for people raised in Religious homes , as children we do not have the right to disagree........but guess what , just as we grow up and find out Santa aint real some of us find out for ourselfs that God is not an absolute either.

 

[Army Guy]

great convo my friends!!!

 

[B5150]

Well as you can guess I do not agree at all with DR. D. Iam sure he will pop in here soon enough and enlightin me on what he meant by that. But reading that qoute in english I still say no not true.

Many people grow up in abusive homes yet when they grow up and have a family of their own they make sure to treat their children correctly.

Simply because someone has raised their kids correctly despite their abuse does in no way mean that they got over their abuse.

 

[SELFofGOD]

Simply because someone has raised their kids correctly despite their abuse does in no way mean that they got over their abuse.

oh ok so were talkn bout scarrd ppl ..........:bigok:

 

[AE14]

Simply because someone has raised their kids correctly despite their abuse does in no way mean that they got over their abuse.

thats true, but I will also say, we are all abused to some extent. We grow up despite our parents, not because of them.

<disclaimer, that does not mean all parents abuse, I am saying that regardless of their best intent, parents will say and do things that scar their children>

 

[DR.D]

WHAT are you talking about FLAW ???

Are you saying that becuase parents teach their children religion they grow up to be religious ?

Originally Posted by DR.D
This is a point I made also, that our understanding is subject to preconception. As kids, we literally take EVERYTHING on faith, and we become the product of our parental programming. For the most part, we are neurologically hardwired and psychologically scripted for the rest of our lives by the age of 5-6 years old.

So I guess then everyone here still believes in the toothfairy , santa, and everything else then too since we are hardwired with the lies of our parrents ?

Well as you can guess I do not agree at all with DR. D. Iam sure he will pop in here soon enough and enlightin me on what he meant by that. But reading that qoute in english I still say no not true.

Many people grow up in abusive homes yet when they grow up and have a family of their own they make sure to treat their children correctly.
Same goes for people raised in Religious homes , as children we do not have the right to disagree........but guess what , just as we grow up and find out Santa aint real some of us find out for ourselfs that God is not an absolute either.

Come on bro, you're smarter than that! You're an athlete who understands cause and effect, and you're telling me that training has no effect on performance? Nigga please.

Now even though we are scripted in childhood, that's not to say we can't reject that script and rise above it. Very few people do though, and if they do it too young it often installs a rebellious counter-script that can be just as problematic.

There is another way to ditch your childhood programming too, but even that is scripted. Some parents program "spellbreakers" into their children's scripts, that free them from their parental injunctions and directives once they accomplish some goal (ie: once you've had 3 kids like me, THEN you can tell me how to parent ...or... Once you start paying your own bills, THEN you can make the rules ...or... when you're finally as old as me, THEN you can do what you want... etc,etc.)

But most people are not even aware that they're living a repetitive predictable script, making the same moves with the same hang-ups in the same games over and over again. They frequently say 'why does this always happen to me?' That's why some are winners and some are losers. Losers are given a tragic script, and repeat the detrimental behaviors throughout life. Often times they are completely unaware that they have the autonomy to stop losing, or they are just too scared of the unknown to finally live their own lives. So they stay in that messed up but familiar delusion they call their comfort zone, because at least they have learned how to manage their denial.

There is also a 3'rd way to cancel all that childhood scripting. I think it's what Jesus meant when he said you must be "reborn", it's the spiritual solution that breaks generational curses. We are practically all slaves to our childhood programming (and 99% of us were poorly trained to some degree), but the knowledge of the truth will set you free from it! If Christ came to "liberate the captives", then he is offering you an easy way to start over with eyes open to the truth. This 3'rd option is obviously the easiest, fastest, and most complete way to achieve personal autonomy, aka: free will.

 

[B5150]

There is also a 3'rd way to cancel all that childhood scripting. I think it's what Jesus meant when he said you must be "reborn", it's the spiritual solution that breaks generational curses. We are practically all slaves to our childhood programming (and 99% of us were poorly trained to some degree), but the knowledge of the truth will set you free from it! If Christ came to "liberate the captives", then he is offering you an easy way to start over with eyes open to the truth. This 3'rd option is obviously the easiest, fastest, and most complete way to achieve personal autonomy, aka: free will.

"Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

Although a rebirth of the Spirit may take place we are still challenged to rescript our mind and behaviors for we are indeed truely still men with shortcomings.

 

[SELFofGOD]

Come on bro, you're smarter than that! You're an athlete who understands cause and effect, and you're telling me that training has no effect on performance? Nigga please.

Now even though we are scripted in childhood, that's not to say we can't reject that script and rise above it. Very few people do though, and if they do it too young it often installs a rebellious counter-script that can be just as problematic.

There is another way to ditch your childhood programming too, but even that is scripted. Some parents program "spellbreakers" into their children's scripts, that free them from their parental injunctions and directives once they accomplish some goal (ie: once you've had 3 kids like me, THEN you can tell me how to parent ...or... Once you start paying your own bills, THEN you can make the rules ...or... when you're finally as old as me, THEN you can do what you want... etc,etc.)

But most people are not even aware that they're living a repetitive predictable script, making the same moves with the same hang-ups in the same games over and over again. They frequently say 'why does this always happen to me?' That's why some are winners and some are losers. Losers are given a tragic script, and repeat the detrimental behaviors throughout life. Often times they are completely unaware that they have the autonomy to stop losing, or they are just too scared of the unknown to finally live their own lives. So they stay in that messed up but familiar delusion they call their comfort zone, because at least they have learned how to manage their denial. There is also a 3'rd way to cancel all that childhood scripting. I think it's what Jesus meant when he said you must be "reborn", it's the spiritual solution that breaks generational curses. We are practically all slaves to our childhood programming (and 99% of us were poorly trained to some degree), but the knowledge of the truth will set you free from it! If Christ came to "liberate the captives", then he is offering you an easy way to start over with eyes open to the truth. This 3'rd option is obviously the easiest, fastest, and most complete way to achieve personal autonomy, aka: free will.

You just contradicted your previous post.

2nd this has nuttn to do with training. Childhood is not training for adulthood.

3rd You can allways just rise above the negative and be a better stronger person becuase you can and have enough will and strength to do so.

4th That lil paragraph I bolded is just a nice way of saying A LOT of ppl are weak. That I do agree with.

One thing , in several of your posts you refer to " THE TRUTH ". What oh what DR D is this TRUTH ? If it is TRUTH what is your PROOF ?

 

[DR.D]

You just contradicted your previous post.

I don't see how. I think you just misread it. I never said you were locked in by your script, just that you were definitely scripted. And no man is more hopelessly enslaved than the one who falsely believes that he is free. You gotta open your eyes to the possibility or else you're probably already lost in it.

2nd this has nuttn to do with training. Childhood is not training for adulthood.

If you honestly believe that, then you're already screwed! Seriously, that's just borderline retarded to say that brah. Where did you think learned behavior comes from, the toothfairy? lol

I bet you don't have kids, huh?

3rd You can allways just rise above the negative and be a better stronger person becuase you can and have enough will and strength to do so.

Yeah right, that's why everybody's doing it I guess. Oh wait, they aren't! There are more and more unsuccessful and unhappy people out there, trapped in their sh!tty lives and tweaking out constantly. I see it in the new everyday.

Coach always said you only play as good as you practice, and if parents don't properly train their kids, then they play like crap and become losers/victims as adults. This is a very common observation if you've ever seen an indifferent parent in the store with some bratty kid, you don't have to understand psychology to see how that sequence of losing results unfolds.

4th That lil paragraph I bolded is just a nice way of saying A LOT of ppl are weak. That I do agree with.

One thing , in several of your posts you refer to " THE TRUTH ". What oh what DR D is this TRUTH ? If it is TRUTH what is your PROOF ?

That's the big question, isn't it? There is a singular truth, but no man can tell you better than you can discover for yourself. Maybe you just don't give a sh!t, and that's cool too. One can make a good argument that it really doesn't matter much anyway, but I still choose to seek it. That's the choice I make.

 

[B5150]

Childhood is not training for adulthood.

If you honestly believe that, then you're already screwed! Seriously, that's just borderline retarded to say that brah. Where did you think learned behavior comes from, the toothfairy? lol

I bet you don't have kids, huh?

I'm going to have to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not entirely ignorant of how childhood behavior development is training for adulthood.

How does a little girl know how to be treated by a man? The way her father treats her mother and more so how her father treats her.

How does a boy learn how to treat a woman? By the way his father treats his mother.

How does a child learn conflict resolution skills? By the way his parents resolve conflict with each other and others.

How does a child learn how to submit to authority, manage anger, manage his sexuality, manage his free time, manage his money....you guessed it!

How does a child learn integrity, character, work ethic, perseverance, honesty, loyalty, discipline...?

Whether you like it (or in your case know it) or not the paternal influence on your developmental years dictates many of your own.

What you live you learn.
What you learn your practice.
What you practice you become.
What you become has consequences.

Now of course there is the absent parental influence that shows you your value and or worth. Then your playground, play mates and play things mold you on top of the influence that is imposed on you from the absence of intentional influence. The absence of intentional, or the unintentional influence, is often a greater influence than the intentional. Silence, or absence, speaks volumes that reverberate a lifetime.

 

[DR.D]

... How does a little girl know how to be treated by a man? The way her father treats her mother and more so how her father treats her.

How does a boy learn how to treat a woman? By the way his father treats his mother. ...

Yes, this is exactly correct, David. Basically, the parent of the opposite sex tells the child what to be in life, and the parent of the same sex provides the role model of how to be it. So boys generally become the kind of men that their mothers tell them to be, while their fathers instructed them on the details how to do it.

Here's an example:

Mom to son:
"Why don't you go see if you can help your father in the garage." (instruction: be helpful, be good with your hands)

Dad to son:
"Hand me that piece of wood, son, and I'll show you how to use a saw." (lesson: now to be a helpful handyman)

And likewise, girls become whatever their fathers instruct them to be, with the role model of their mother's to show them how to accomplish that directive.

You guys here can test this theory. It means that if your script transaction went smoothly, your mannerisms and life script should most resemble your paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather. And for the ladies, your script will mostly come from your fraternal grandmother and maternal grandfather.

When you understand the mechanism of script conveyance, it becomes very easy to understand the important roles of a mother and father in every marriage! And easy to make certain predictions concerning the destiny of offspring.

 

[B5150]

Yes, this is exactly correct, David. Basically, the parent of the opposite sex tells the child what to be in life, and the parent of the same sex provides the role model of how to be it. So boys generally become the kind of men that their mothers tell them to be, while their fathers instructed them on the details how to do it.

Here's an example:

Mom to son:
"Why don't you go see if you can help your father in the garage." (instruction: be helpful, be good with your hands)

Dad to son:
"Hand me that piece of wood, son, and I'll show you how to use a saw." (lesson: now to be a helpful handyman)

And likewise, girls become whatever their fathers instruct them to be, with the role model of their mother's to show them how to accomplish that directive.

You guys here can test this theory. It means that if your script transaction went smoothly, your mannerisms and life script should most resemble your paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather. And for the ladies, your script will mostly come from your fraternal grandmother and maternal grandfather.

When you understand the mechanism of script conveyance, it becomes very easy to understand the important roles of a mother and father in every marriage! And easy to make certain predictions concerning the destiny of offspring.

...and even further - I date my daughter. I affirm her as a young woman in ways that transcend - validate her feelings, admire her intelligence, encourage her dreams and aspirations, bestow upon her the virtue of her purity.

Additionally, I am patient with my little girl in all the ways a husband needs to be with his wife - quick to watch and listen (look Daddy, watch me Daddy, listen Daddy) and slow to speak, a source of unconditional and unwavering comfort and security.

I make sure to demonstrate that toward my wife especially when my daughter is present so she can see it in practical application in my relationship. She (and he) will know the model by my behavior.

Of course they model my many unbecoming traits as well. I fail miserably when I do fail

Bring up your daughter(s) in the way they should be treated and they will expect and accept nothing less than the example that she has lived through her father.

I could go on...

If we can be honest with ourselves a tremendous amount of our character, mannerisms, attitudes, behaviors and disposition is ingrained in us by the model of our parents, most significantly our fathers'. Having three children of my own I see why and where they got to be the young adults they are - good and bad - as do they, because they acknowledge it openly and pride themselves in it - for better or worse. Although I have boys and girls they most strongly resemble their father - just ask their mother

A Father transcends!...but that is for another lesson

 

[SELFofGOD]

Funny how it is the Christian that resorts to insults when someone doesnt agree with your beliefs and you cant provide proof for your so called truth.

Again with the childhood is training for your adulthood. If it was as simple as that then lmao a lot of us wouldnt be doing what we do now as adults.
If our childhood provided the training for adulthood then alot of us would be doing tottaly diff things now.
For example the kid that grows up doing whatever he wants , spoiled , daddy was never around blah blah blah getsin trouble with the law etc.
Then he should pretty much be in Prison or at least a nobody working at Wallmart.
Do you have any idea how many SOLDIERS fit that discreption ? THEY grew up, THEY decide for themselfs what to do for the better, THEY took up an oath and it is THEY who are now FIGHTING and DYING for YOU.
They have become Honorable men after what was a tottal mess of a childhood.

Still waiting for proof of this Truth.

And Dunn ....yep still cant make lemonade, dang oranges. lol

 

[B5150]

Funny how it is the Christian that resorts to insults when someone doesnt agree with your beliefs and you cant provide proof for your so called truth.


And Dunn ....yep still cant make lemonade, dang oranges. lol

You've been an arrogant, rude and abrasive douche-bag from the get go. If you dish it out you sure as **** better learn to take it or STFU! :bigok:

 

[SELFofGOD]

example ? All I have done is back up my beliefs, go ahead and look thru this thread.

So now its you telln me to STFU ???????

Very well then I bow out of this conversation. 4give me for insulting your beliefs.

 

[AE14]

Well since it seems that the conversations tone has changed a bit, lets redirect.

I think at the end of the day we are all searching for something. Many theists feel as though they have "found" what they are looking for. To be honest, I dont think they have. For any of us to find what we are looking for, we need undeniable truth. For me, I am searching for the true history of man, and it is not in the history books, nor is it in the bible. There is much more to it than we know. When I find it, I will let you know

 

[DR.D]

example ? All I have done is back up my beliefs, go ahead and look thru this thread.

So now its you telln me to STFU ???????

Very well then I bow out of this conversation. 4give me for insulting your beliefs.

With that sh!tty attitude, you probably never will learn. You have to cut that playing the victim crap man.

Now you know me. I like you, and even tried to help you with your cycle thread and diet plans, I've even been praying for your safety over there soldier. But Dave just dropped a lot of knowledge on you (and I tried to also) and you don't seem to have absorbed any of it. If you think you know better then enlighten us, don't just criticize. And please stop playing the victim and acting like you got your feelers hurt because somebody else said different.

This is the gamy behavior I was talking about, and gives clues about your script. Think about it, do you find yourself becoming indignant like this a lot? It's a victim role, not uncommon with kids that grew up in an alcoholic household, or with an angry, controlling parent. If some sh!t really is going down in 2012, do you think you'll have the discernment not to be deceived by it, when you don't even know who you are or how you tick? I doubt it, friend.

 

[B5150]

example ? All I have done is back up my beliefs, go ahead and look thru this thread.

So now its you telln me to STFU ???????

Very well then I bow out of this conversation. 4give me for insulting your beliefs.

Here's one example of you and your antagonizing:

Invalid Link Removed

I also have PM's that display your behavior as well but I'll not post them.

Dr.D has nailed you as the victim quite accurately. You send off these innuendos and condescending statements towards others and then whine "poor me, I'm a victim" - "of the Christian" when any post a retort.

This is not at all about my beliefs. You have not inspired an ounce of contemplation and are zero threat to my beliefs. Who and what I place my trust in has remained the same for a couple millennium and your statements are not about to cause an ounce of wavering or reconsideration on my part.

 

[B5150]

Well since it seems that the conversations tone has changed a bit, lets redirect.

I think at the end of the day we are all searching for something. Many theists feel as though they have "found" what they are looking for. To be honest, I dont think they have. For any of us to find what we are looking for, we need undeniable truth. For me, I am searching for the true history of man, and it is not in the history books, nor is it in the bible. There is much more to it than we know. When I find it, I will let you know

I agree we are all searching for something whether we know it or not. I think that primarily the "what", not the "who" IME is what may be the difference between us (not you and I but in the general sense) and in what we find.

For me the infinite questions about the universe can worry about themselves for my greatest longing has always been in my heart and not in my head.

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

 

[AE14]

I agree we are all searching for something whether we know it or not. I think that primarily the "what", not the "who" IME is what may be the difference between us (not you and I but in the general sense) and in what we find.

For me the infinite questions about the universe can worry about themselves for my greatest longing has always been in my heart and not in my head.

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

I understand where you are coming from D. However, for me I am on a search for the truth about civilization. There is so much evidence to support earlier advanced civilizations. Read Ancient Maya text and it talks about it. Think about the Noah/Gilgamesh flood stories, they tie to a logical conclusion which is the thawing of the last ice age.

Damn it....I am going to have to go searching again

 

[Army Guy]

I understand where you are coming from D. However, for me I am on a search for the truth about civilization. There is so much evidence to support earlier advanced civilizations. Read Ancient Maya text and it talks about it. Think about the Noah/Gilgamesh flood stories, they tie to a logical conclusion which is the thawing of the last ice age.

Damn it....I am going to have to go searching again

I love it when AE gets researching again!!!! that usually leads to great conversations!
As for the the search for truth out there, Like DD said, we each are searching for it in our own way. I respect each person's search. However, when one HAS found what they know is truth, I think all in turn respect that.
When Moses actually SAW God, there were those who doubted, and to this day continue to doubt... Does that change the fact that Moses saw the Creator??? No, but it DOES mean that the individual must find out for themselves what that truth is. For Moses, he saw, therefore faith was replaced my knowledge. For Isaiah, he saw, therefore faith is replaced with knowledge.
"Blessed are those who believe and have NOT seen"

 

[AE14]

I love it when AE gets researching again!!!! that usually leads to great conversations!
As for the the search for truth out there, Like DD said, we each are searching for it in our own way. I respect each person's search. However, when one HAS found what they know is truth, I think all in turn respect that.
When Moses actually SAW God, there were those who doubted, and to this day continue to doubt... Does that change the fact that Moses saw the Creator??? No, but it DOES mean that the individual must find out for themselves what that truth is. For Moses, he saw, therefore faith was replaced my knowledge. For Isaiah, he saw, therefore faith is replaced with knowledge.
"Blessed are those who believe and have NOT seen"

Interesting thought about Moses. I think the question is, what did he really see? The entire exodus is a problem for me for a variety of reasons. Onbe, the Syrians had Mises who led an exodus out of Egypt 100 years prior to Moses, and two, (sorry for the run-ons) all the plagues could be explained as a natural occurrence.

Also, the commandments that Moses receives are of interest here as well. The are awfully similar to earlier texts (Oath of Clearance in the Egyptian Book of the Dead) and paint an awful picture of the OT god.

 

[Army Guy]

Interesting thought about Moses. I think the question is, what did he really see? The entire exodus is a problem for me for a variety of reasons. Onbe, the Syrians had Mises who led an exodus out of Egypt 100 years prior to Moses, and two, (sorry for the run-ons) all the plagues could be explained as a natural occurrence.

Also, the commandments that Moses receives are of interest here as well. The are awfully similar to earlier texts (Oath of Clearance in the Egyptian Book of the Dead) and paint an awful picture of the OT god.

oh my goodness what a great set of questions!!!!! AND POINTS!!!!! :bigok:

Totally agree on the plagues being the cause of natural events, which goes back to our discussion of God as scientist earlier (Which I truly believe he is and was) Scientific reasons for all the occurrences??? ABSOLUTELY!!!! but the timing OF those occurrences be coincidence, I think not!

I LOVE studying the Book of the Dead!!! There is soooo much there!!! I will comment thus, and let the comments role:
To those of us that believe, there is no issue whatsoever that there are bits and pieces of "Traditional Christian (or Jewish)" beliefs riddled throughout the writings of OTHER groups of people. In fact for myself it serves to strengthen my testimony of the truthfulness of these teachings. WHY one may ask??? This is the simple answer:
For me, since the days of "Adam" God has had prophets throughout all times and all people who have taught "Truth" to the people as inspired by God. So as the centuries pass, one finds bits and pieces of these truth's riddled throughout the writings of these peoples. Each of these groups have, through their own disobedience, turned from God and many of those teachings have become corrupt. For me, what I see is testimony and teachings lasting millennia strewn throughout the pages of time. This confirms testimony to me, and also excites me to dig further as well :veryhappy:

 

[Flaw]

WHAT are you talking about FLAW ???

Are you saying that becuase parents teach their children religion they grow up to be religious ?

What's with the CAPS, I feel like your yelling at me :/ I actually don't know what your talking about either because in my last post I mentioned nothing of Religion. I mentioned how your upbringing, whether it's teachings of any kind or even events effects your life.

I even agree with your one post where you said "humans are still in our infancy". I hope this wasn't hostile as it came off to be. :/

 

[Flaw]

There is also a 3'rd way to cancel all that childhood scripting. I think it's what Jesus meant when he said you must be "reborn", it's the spiritual solution that breaks generational curses. We are practically all slaves to our childhood programming (and 99% of us were poorly trained to some degree), but the knowledge of the truth will set you free from it! If Christ came to "liberate the captives", then he is offering you an easy way to start over with eyes open to the truth. This 3'rd option is obviously the easiest, fastest, and most complete way to achieve personal autonomy, aka: free will.

"But YOU did not learn the Christ to be so, *provided, indeed, that YOU heard him and were taught by means of him, just as truth is in Jesus, *that YOU should put away the old personality which conforms to YOUR former course of conduct and which is being corrupted according to his deceptive desires; *but that YOU should be made new in the force actuating YOUR mind, *and should put on the new personality which was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty." - Ephesians 4:20-24

"Strip off the old personality with its practices, and clothe yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it." Collosians 3:9-10


"*and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free." -John 8:32


We can make changes though imperfect, For myself learning the truth (christ jesus and the news of god's kingdom" was the only thing that helped me change.

 

[SELFofGOD]

Allright DR D and Dunn,

For one I NEVER spoke to any of you in the childish tone you have displayed.
THE PROOF is in this very thread.

This thread turned into a discussion about GOD and so being I backed up my statements with Historical Ref. and even Quotes right outta the OT and NT.

All the while you kept ignoring them. That is fine. But when you feel your back against the wall and cant explaine yourself or come back at me you choose to go with the insults.

And about my other thread that you decided to shut down DUNN it was clear in my opening post in that thread it was all for entertainment. Meant for Atheists. Of course it did not take long at all for "Believers" to jump in and get offended. The thread was not open longer than 15 mins b4 you decided to post your 2 cents in it and shut it down without warning.
Very allmighty of you Dunn. Good for you.

When I joined in on this discussion I did so with facts and refferences.
What I got in return was childish behavior.

So here again I will have to provide proof of what I am talking about :

My 1st post in this thread replyn to Youngandfree :

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngandfree
Maybe I missed something. Are you stating that because the OT prophecies didn't put the name Jesus on the messiah to come, that Jesus can't be the messiah? Explain who else in the Bible fit all of the prophecies because I don't recall reading of anyone else born of a virgin, was sinless, was crucified and then rose from the dead.

If the name part is your hangup about Jesus, that seems like a pretty weak argument to me.

Yeah failed to mention the all powerfull messiahs name ...my bad. lol
If you do some research and can actually bring yourself to look outside christian beliefs you will find that the " Christ " story is not new and deff. not unique.

Other "Gods" Before Christ had virgin births and various other similarities.

Rght off the batt DR D chimes in :
So what's your point? That you can't decide if it's true or not, or which god is real, so you blow it off automatically by default. That's a pretty chicken sh!t way to see it bro. Be brave man! Pull your panties up, and dare to seek the truth. You can do it. And until them, be smart and keep your mouth shut if you don't know any better. That way folks don't realize how scared you really are for not knowing. You should have already learned that lesson by now soldier.


My response ( still keepn my cool )
Wha ??? What part of my post did you not understand ?
So in your view in order to be brave I have to believe in some supernatural all mighty all knowing god ?
People have allways created Gods to help them in tough times.
Most people look to the sky and ask for strength.
Very few people have no need to look outside , rather they look within and find the courage they need to survive. THAT my friend is BRAVE.

Oh and sorry i 4got to put my panties on 2day bro.

Dr D responds to enlightn me and I respond back with :

So many people want to feel as tho they are special in some way, they wanna think they have a greater purpose in life.
why ?
Are you really not satisfied with just doing watever you naturally do best ?
Not satisfied with having a wife. Having kids and watching them grow ?
Most people FEAR Death they CAN NOT picture the lights going out for good.
Fine , so the brain copes by reaching to the heavns and putting "faith" in some far off fairy tell land.
The problem is that instead of being the best Human Being and taking care of your brothers you get lost in this my god your god afterlife nonsense.
Thus we still have people killing eachother in gods name.
But hey its all good cus they trully believe they have a "assingment" in life right ?



Ya know I have no problem if people wanna believe in WHATEVER , the problem I have is when that Belief is worth killing your brothers and sisters over.

Maybe it is in our nature to be brutal.
I live my life a day at a time. I cherrish every sunrise and sunset. I Love my wife and my child and I try to treat people as humanely as i can.
When I die if I meet God and he punishes me for the way I have lived my life I will not be alone.

I then reply to a post from youngandfree concerning some research :

Since you seem to at least wanna look up some info here are some Christ like people forya to google yourself to death

Virgin births b4 Christ :

HORUS

JASON

RA

JOVE

APIS

OSIRIS

and more.

A quik example on how The Christ story is not new.

Horus of Egypt : Remember this is just one of many preceeding Christ,

Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger, with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old.
Horus was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer," who becomes "John the Baptist."
He had 12 disciples.
He performed miracles and raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.
He walked on water.
Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the Messiah, God's Anointed Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, the Word" etc.
He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish ("Ichthys").
Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."
Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long before the Christians duplicated the story.
In fact, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis

Dr D replies saying its all propaganda and lies...
So what's your point? Jesus wasn't even born in December, looks like he was most likely born on September 11'th actually.

Don't get confused with all the similar stories. It's probably just staged propaganda from an author of confusion. More lies basically, to obscure the Truth. If you wanna criticize religious retards, then you should do more research and be careful not to fall into the same traps set for atheists.

Since Dr D just simply denied all I replied with :

Ok my friend .

Nomatter ur beliefs we are all brothers in this box

I later reply after readn more new posts with :

well conversations like this one allways end up the same way. Fun for a lil while but in the end Blind Faith is just that, Blind.


I do not require a higher powers help to be a moral person in life or to appreciate every second I have to live and love my friends & family.

I might meet your god someday, but untill then I am content being a Human "Being".

cya guys 2morrow its like 1230am afgh time lol

Later a full page and a half goes by and I introduced some humor yet still not offensive :


Well I tried , you can lead a horse to water but...

so I will introduce some Atheist humor ... a black and white pic reading :

Is god willing to prevent evil but not able ?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able but not willing ?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing ?
Then whence come evil ?
Is he neither able nor willing ?
Then why call him god ? Epicurus

From an atheist humor photo.

I then reply with :
In this forum now purely for entertainment.
Next time some one posts another quote from the NT or OT I will post another athiest humor pic.
Can not have a logical discussion if the other party will not even try to look outside his beliefs without constantly thinking " This Must be the Devils work "

Allmost reminds me of The Water Boy lol
" GIRLS ARE THE DEVIL !!! " etc

Now if this gets your blood boling you have issues sorry.

Dunn chimes in later with :
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunn
You seem to be hung up on the Old Testament Covenant between God and man that man continued to disobey and break time and time, again angering God, bringing just and righteous judgment upon man, enemies of Him and His will

So I reply backing myself up by using quotes outta the OT.

Ok lets look at this so called JUST and RIGHTEOUS judgment by the Chrstian god.

God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people :
9 The LORD said to Gad, David's seer, 10 "Go and tell David, 'This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.' " 11 So Gad went to David and said to him, "This is what the LORD says: 'Take your choice: 12 three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the LORD--days of plague in the land, with the angel of the LORD ravaging every part of Israel.' Now then, decide how I should answer the one who sent me." 13 David said to Gad, "I am in deep distress. Let me fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is very great; but do not let me fall into the hands of men." 14 So the LORD sent a plague on Israel, and seventy thousand men of Israel fell dead

God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value
1 Next we turned and went up along the road toward Bashan, and Og king of Bashan with his whole army marched out to meet us in battle at Edrei. 2 The LORD said to me, "Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over to you with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you did to Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon." 3 So the LORD our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. 4 At that time we took all his cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them--the whole region of Argob, Og's kingdom in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages. 6 We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city--men, women and children. 7 But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves

Murder, Rape, and Pillage at Jabesh-gilead
"So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan."



"The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."



"Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes."

So many examples such as the three above. If you wish I will provide more. Just dont wanna lose anyone with A.D.D.

The point is WHY would any Moral man choose to follow a god such as this ?

The New Testament does not erase the old. If you would like proof of this I will be glad to provide it.

Jesus - Yaweh - The holy ghost - the burning bush- Whatever you want to call him he is still the Christian God.

I hate quoting anything out of the OT or NT but since this is your god I will.

Youngandfree replys with well none of that is NT doesnt apply anymore etc etc : So I reply with :

This is a popular scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and crazy laws commanded by their god.
The NT Demands that the old laws be adhered :

Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament

God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell.

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die"

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..."

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." 2 Peter 20-21

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." Matthew 5:17

All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17

This is YOUR god not mine.

You can not call yourself a Christian and IGNORE the OT.
But in any case I gave you some examples.

and next with :


By the way I am not ignoring the book , YOU are my friend.

Same God Same Beliefs Same Laws

 

[SELFofGOD]

Dunn replies with :

Lets do this one at a time. You seem to selectively quote scripture that skews the observer to see it the way you would like. The previous portion of that chapter is very telling:

1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. 2 So David said to Joab and the commanders of the troops, "Go and count the Israelites from Beersheba to Dan. Then report back to me so that I may know how many there are."

3 But Joab replied, "May the LORD multiply his troops a hundred times over. My lord the king, are they not all my lord's subjects? Why does my lord want to do this? Why should he bring guilt on Israel?"

4 The king's word, however, overruled Joab; so Joab left and went throughout Israel and then came back to Jerusalem. 5 Joab reported the number of the fighting men to David: In all Israel there were one million one hundred thousand men who could handle a sword, including four hundred and seventy thousand in Judah.

6 But Joab did not include Levi and Benjamin in the numbering, because the king's command was repulsive to him. 7 This command was also evil in the sight of God; so he punished Israel.

8 Then David said to God, "I have sinned greatly by doing this. Now, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing."

I stand on my statement that He is just and righteous in His judgment of man's disobedience. You seem to think you can judge what is right and wrong in the site of God and then judge what is just in recompense for your disobedience. God does not need your approval

and after quote , " We can pick apart the others later " You never did Dunn.

so I reply :

Nice try but the fact remains YOUR god kills Men Women Children, in my example 70000

And lets get one thing straight I do not need YOUR gods approval, since I would NEVER follow a crazed dictator.

Again I say IF you call yourself a CHRISTIAN you CAN NOT ignore the atrocities commited by your God.

Still cool and calm babyyy : )

Here comes Dr D very very profesional bro :
Really, then who are you following right now? Why are you away from your family, fighting in a foreign land? Fighting people that never did a dam thing to you or yours. And oh yes, you'd rape and kill women. You'd kill babies too if you haven't already, if they told you to do it. And the one's you follow aren't even gods, but you follow them anyway for a paycheck!

I suggest you think real hard about what YOU are putting YOUR faith in, and the hypocrisy of your opinions, soldier boy. Then if you find yourself innocent, you can pick those stones back up and keep throwing them at God and everybody else, from that glass house of yours.

I reply with :

Allright DR.D

Freewill
They say that a being must have freewill to be happy. The omnibenevolent God did not wish to create robots, so he gave humans freewill to enable them to experience love and happiness. But the humans used this freewill to choose evil, and introduced imperfection into God's originally perfect universe. God had no control over this decision, so the blame for our imperfect universe is on the humans, not God....

Well no. Here is why the argument is weak. First, if God is omnipotent, then the assumption that freewill is necessary for happiness is false. If God could make it a rule that only beings with freewill may experience happiness, then he could just as easily have made it a rule that only robots may experience happiness. The latter option is clearly superior, since perfect robots will never make decisions which could render them or their creator unhappy, whereas beings with freewill could. A perfect and omnipotent God who creates beings capable of ruining their own happiness is impossible. To put it in a nice way.


Second, even if we were to allow the necessity of freewill for happiness, God could have created humans with freewill who did not have the ability to choose evil, but to choose between several good options.

Third, God supposedly has freewill, and yet he does not make imperfect decisions. If humans are miniature images of God, our decisions should likewise be perfect. Also, the occupants of heaven, who presumably must have freewill to be happy, will never use that freewill to make imperfect decisions. Why would the originally perfect humans do differently?

This god you say you have a personal relationship with, he is all knowing, all powerfull....omniscient ??? Yes ?
When god created the universe, he saw the sufferings which humans would endure as a result of the sin of those original humans. He heard the screams of the damned. Surely he would have known that it would have been better for those humans to never have been born and surely this all-compassionate deity would have foregone the creation of a universe destined to imperfection in which many of the humans were doomed to eternal suffering. A PERFECTLY COMPASSIONATE being who creates beings which he knows are doomed to suffer is impossible...

and in reply to your rant about me fighting and supporting the mission i said :


I do what I am GOOD AT and a make a pretty penny doing it too.
Have you not figured out by now I have no belief in a supernatural god ?


Later I reply to Dunn :

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunn
I certainly do not ignore them. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

sure

God is perfectly just, and yet he sentences the imperfect humans he created to infinite suffering in hell for finite sins. Clearly, a limited offense does not warrant unlimited punishment. God's sentencing of the imperfect humans to an eternity in hell for a mere mortal lifetime of sin is infinitely more unjust than this punishment. The absurd injustice of this infinite punishment is even greater when we consider that the ultimate source of human imperfection is the God who created them. A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is

Still I am replyn in a profesional manner no weird outbursts.

Army guy jumps in with a cool reply and later I say my goodbyes its off to the gym.
I will let another freethinker jump in and play. For now its gym time

take care guys


Dr D comes back actn tottaly cool and collected with a response and i reply with :


Well since you put it that way...I Luv ya man lol

2 or 3 pages later I joke about CMs rep points :


YOUR REP POINTS !!!! HOLY COW 50017 !!! lol I change my mind on everythn now hehee

Later we get into are we special etc I reply with :

We humans are special in the way Cancer is special.
We spread out and consume.
Polluting and killing the earth.
So sure we are special.

But to say we are the most intellegent ...I am not sure about that.

In the end Belief in a God or a higher power will allways come down to A Persons Own Personal Need to make sense of things.

After being presented with historical proof and facts the Believer will allways refer back to " Well I have experienced and felt the presence etc etc "

I reply to Dunns statement :
" You can not make lemonade out of Oranges "
Well now how da hell can I argue with that ???

and later i say:

We as humans IMO are still in our infancy. We have a long long way to go and evolve ( if we make it b4 killing ourselfs ) before we can even get close to understand the reasons behind the universe.

Flaw joins in with :

Quote:
Originally Posted by DR.D
This is a point I made also, that our understanding is subject to preconception. As kids, we literally take EVERYTHING on faith, and we become the product of our parental programming. For the most part, we are neurologically hardwired and psychologically scripted for the rest of our lives by the age of 5-6 years old.

"The moment a little boy is concerned with which is a jay and which is a sparrow, he can no longer see the birds or hear them sing." - Eric Berne


I completely agree. I recently was reading a article in GQ magazine. A interview with sylvester stallone. He talks about how his parents divorced and his mom was not very affectionate. He remembers her kissing him twice.
He says:

"You don't ever, ever get over that. There's no closure for the things that happen during your childhood. You're wet clay, and that's a dent that's been put in the clay. You can't buff or sand it out: it'll always have that fissure. So you've got to be careful, what you say to a kid; it buries itself in the heart like a hatchet and you can't fix the wound."

It would be foolish to say your upbringing does not effect your decisions as a adult.


I reply with :

WHAT are you talking about FLAW ???

Are you saying that becuase parents teach their children religion they grow up to be religious ?

Originally Posted by DR.D
This is a point I made also, that our understanding is subject to preconception. As kids, we literally take EVERYTHING on faith, and we become the product of our parental programming. For the most part, we are neurologically hardwired and psychologically scripted for the rest of our lives by the age of 5-6 years old.

So I guess then everyone here still believes in the toothfairy , santa, and everything else then too since we are hardwired with the lies of our parrents ?

Well as you can guess I do not agree at all with DR. D. Iam sure he will pop in here soon enough and enlightin me on what he meant by that. But reading that qoute in english I still say no not true.

Many people grow up in abusive homes yet when they grow up and have a family of their own they make sure to treat their children correctly.
Same goes for people raised in Religious homes , as children we do not have the right to disagree........but guess what , just as we grow up and find out Santa aint real some of us find out for ourselfs that God is not an absolute either.

Dunn qoutes me and says :

Simply because someone has raised their kids correctly despite their abuse does in no way mean that they got over their abuse.

I reply with :
oh ok so were talkn bout scarrd ppl

Dr D replys to my earlyer post with :

Come on bro, you're smarter than that! You're an athlete who understands cause and effect, and you're telling me that training has no effect on performance? Nigga please.

Now even though we are scripted in childhood, that's not to say we can't reject that script and rise above it. Very few people do though, and if they do it too young it often installs a rebellious counter-script that can be just as problematic.

There is another way to ditch your childhood programming too, but even that is scripted. Some parents program "spellbreakers" into their children's scripts, that free them from their parental injunctions and directives once they accomplish some goal (ie: once you've had 3 kids like me, THEN you can tell me how to parent ...or... Once you start paying your own bills, THEN you can make the rules ...or... when you're finally as old as me, THEN you can do what you want... etc,etc.)

But most people are not even aware that they're living a repetitive predictable script, making the same moves with the same hang-ups in the same games over and over again. They frequently say 'why does this always happen to me?' That's why some are winners and some are losers. Losers are given a tragic script, and repeat the detrimental behaviors throughout life. Often times they are completely unaware that they have the autonomy to stop losing, or they are just too scared of the unknown to finally live their own lives. So they stay in that messed up but familiar delusion they call their comfort zone, because at least they have learned how to manage their denial.

There is also a 3'rd way to cancel all that childhood scripting. I think it's what Jesus meant when he said you must be "reborn", it's the spiritual solution that breaks generational curses. We are practically all slaves to our childhood programming (and 99% of us were poorly trained to some degree), but the knowledge of the truth will set you free from it! If Christ came to "liberate the captives", then he is offering you an easy way to start over with eyes open to the truth. This 3'rd option is obviously the easiest, fastest, and most complete way to achieve personal autonomy, aka: free will.

So I reply :

You just contradicted your previous post.

2nd this has nuttn to do with training. Childhood is not training for adulthood.

3rd You can allways just rise above the negative and be a better stronger person becuase you can and have enough will and strength to do so.

4th That lil paragraph I bolded is just a nice way of saying A LOT of ppl are weak. That I do agree with.

One thing , in several of your posts you refer to " THE TRUTH ". What oh what DR D is this TRUTH ? If it is TRUTH what is your PROOF ?

DR d :

I don't see how. I think you just misread it. I never said you were locked in by your script, just that you were definitely scripted. And no man is more hopelessly enslaved than the one who falsely believes that he is free. You gotta open your eyes to the possibility or else you're probably already lost in it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SELFofGOD
2nd this has nuttn to do with training. Childhood is not training for adulthood.

If you honestly believe that, then you're already screwed! Seriously, that's just borderline retarded to say that brah. Where did you think learned behavior comes from, the toothfairy? lol

I bet you don't have kids, huh?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SELFofGOD
3rd You can allways just rise above the negative and be a better stronger person becuase you can and have enough will and strength to do so.

Yeah right, that's why everybody's doing it I guess. Oh wait, they aren't! There are more and more unsuccessful and unhappy people out there, trapped in their sh!tty lives and tweaking out constantly. I see it in the new everyday.

Coach always said you only play as good as you practice, and if parents don't properly train their kids, then they play like crap and become losers/victims as adults. This is a very common observation if you've ever seen an indifferent parent in the store with some bratty kid, you don't have to understand psychology to see how that sequence of losing results unfolds.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SELFofGOD
4th That lil paragraph I bolded is just a nice way of saying A LOT of ppl are weak. That I do agree with.

One thing , in several of your posts you refer to " THE TRUTH ". What oh what DR D is this TRUTH ? If it is TRUTH what is your PROOF ?

That's the big question, isn't it? There is a singular truth, but no man can tell you better than you can discover for yourself. Maybe you just don't give a sh!t, and that's cool too. One can make a good argument that it really doesn't matter much anyway, but I still choose to seek it. That's the choice I make.

Again with the Insults from D oh well.

I reply back to DR D and Dunn with :

Funny how it is the Christian that resorts to insults when someone doesnt agree with your beliefs and you cant provide proof for your so called truth.

Again with the childhood is training for your adulthood. If it was as simple as that then lmao a lot of us wouldnt be doing what we do now as adults.
If our childhood provided the training for adulthood then alot of us would be doing tottaly diff things now.
For example the kid that grows up doing whatever he wants , spoiled , daddy was never around blah blah blah getsin trouble with the law etc.
Then he should pretty much be in Prison or at least a nobody working at Wallmart.
Do you have any idea how many SOLDIERS fit that discreption ? THEY grew up, THEY decide for themselfs what to do for the better, THEY took up an oath and it is THEY who are now FIGHTING and DYING for YOU.
They have become Honorable men after what was a tottal mess of a childhood.

Still waiting for proof of this Truth.

And Dunn ....yep still cant make lemonade, dang oranges. lol


and I recieve in return : From Dunn

You've been an arrogant, rude and abrasive douche-bag from the get go. If you dish it out you sure as **** better learn to take it or STFU!

My reply :

example ? All I have done is back up my beliefs, go ahead and look thru this thread.

So now its you telln me to STFU ???????

Very well then I bow out of this conversation. 4give me for insulting your beliefs.

Even after excusing myself and EVEN asking 4givness if I had offended YOU STILL ATTACK ME ??? ARE YOU FOKN KIDDN ME ???? LMAO I wont post your attacks since they are just b4 this post.
But I will say this , I have proven that I was professional in this thread, never did I tell either of you to STFU or imply you are retarded , call you a a murderer or anythn else. I TURNED THE OTHER CHEEK

WHAT weird a$$ world do you live in ? You cant hide from the fact that you are a lil HIPOCRATE that like to act tuff behind your keyboard WOW great job buddie !

I am NOT playing any role just BRINGING TO LIGHT YOUR HIPOCRASYSo with all that said feel free to flame and ignore the above facts.

Love ya guys !!! :rasp:

 

[Flaw]

Still waiting for proof of this Truth.

The proof is in the pudding my friend. You can't say the food (God's word) is good if you don't taste it (Let it in your heart) After you have tasted it for yourself you will know the truth and you will know if it's good or not.

 

[Flaw]

I think at the end of the day we are all searching for something. Many theists feel as though they have "found" what they are looking for. To be honest, I dont think they have. For any of us to find what we are looking for, we need undeniable truth. For me, I am searching for the true history of man, and it is not in the history books, nor is it in the bible. There is much more to it than we know. When I find it, I will let you know

Very honest post. As far as history goes, we've talked about this before, we in no way know all the details and it is far too biased in books. Just like a artists paints his interpretation of something we all can't see the same things he does. A author will also write events to try to make others see it his way. Even in the bible, it does not explain everything. But those who believe in the word feel it's enough in our hearts. If you do find what you believe to be truth don't hesitate to share

 

[AE14]

Very honest post. As far as history goes, we've talked about this before, we in no way know all the details and it is far too biased in books. Just like a artists paints his interpretation of something we all can't see the same things he does. A author will also write events to try to make others see it his way. Even in the bible, it does not explain everything. But those who believe in the word feel it's enough in our hearts. If you do find what you believe to be truth don't hesitate to share

trust me I will. After many years (of my nerdish search) I have come to a few conclusions that seem to have a variety of sources to support them. However, in time I plan to lay out my own history of civilization. I figure that since I have devoted my professional life to history, I might as well put it all down eventually

 

[DR.D]

"But YOU did not learn the Christ to be so, *provided, indeed, that YOU heard him and were taught by means of him, just as truth is in Jesus, *that YOU should put away the old personality which conforms to YOUR former course of conduct and which is being corrupted according to his deceptive desires; *but that YOU should be made new in the force actuating YOUR mind, *and should put on the new personality which was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty." - Ephesians 4:20-24

"Strip off the old personality with its practices, and clothe yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it." Collosians 3:9-10


"*and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free." -John 8:32


We can make changes though imperfect, For myself learning the truth (christ jesus and the news of god's kingdom" was the only thing that helped me change.

Indeed! I leaned the human psychological terms for this before I read the Bible, but those Biblical quotes testify to the accuracy of ancient psychological doctrine in the Bible.

Another point of importance, the Holy Spirit that one receives as a believer is free and effective, but a psychologist will cost you a small fortune and still not fix you as well! lol

 

[Rodja]

Do you guys ever stop arguing in a circle? You can't have an ecumenical conversation and still commit this fallacy over and over and over and over...

 

[DR.D]

Lets do this one at a time. ...

Let's not, it's just too much for my primitive caveman brain to focus on!

Look man, I love ya and all, but you really are acting a little retarded. I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm not willing to compromise the truth to use pretty words for it either! But now I understand that you're just fencing for fun though.
:swordfight:

I usually act kinda retard too when I just wanna fight about something, so now I get what game you were playing. I didn't see what you were up to before though, so please don't get so bend outta shape man. I'm not the smartest cookie in the drawer, so can't you cut me some freakin' slack?! (see how I flipped that victim game on you bro )

 

[DR.D]

Do you guys ever stop arguing in a circle? You can't have an ecumenical conversation and still commit this fallacy over and over and over and over...

Ok tough guy, if you wanna get back on track so bad, then what do you think will happen in 2012?

 

[SELFofGOD]

Let's not, it's just too much for my primitive caveman brain to focus on!

Look man, I love ya and all, but you really are acting a little retarded. I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm not willing to compromise the truth to use pretty words for it either! But now I understand that you're just fencing for fun though.
:swordfight:

I usually act kinda retard too when I just wanna fight about something, so now I get what game you were playing. I didn't see what you were up to before though, so please don't get so bend outta shape man. I'm not the smartest cookie in the drawer, so can't you cut me some freakin' slack?! (see how I flipped that victim game on you bro )

AH CRAP ! I CANT FAK WITH A SPECIAL KID DAM UUU !!!!!! :rasp: