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1 last Superdrone run?!!!

tim1985

tim1985

Well-known member
You guys need to do one more Superdrone run! I only bought 1 bottle and I need more dammit! I know this would sell like hot cakes! :bigok:
 
I don't see any reason not to - I actually was convinced to buy liver juice by the logs posted by guys using PP's Superdrone (They tend to stack it).

I'm also told that PP used the alpha isomer of superdrol only, as opposed to some other companies basically taking whatever they get - Thus the "bunk" SD clones many users have experienced. Personally, if I am going to do a superdrol cycle, I'm going to go to WAR. I'd love to see PP run Superdrone again, there is no way it wouldn't sell out.
 
OnTheRoadTo said:
I don't see any reason not to - I actually was convinced to buy liver juice by the logs posted by guys using PP's Superdrone (They tend to stack it).

I'm also told that PP used the alpha isomer of superdrol only, as opposed to some other companies basically taking whatever they get - Thus the "bunk" SD clones many users have experienced. Personally, if I am going to do a superdrol cycle, I'm going to go to WAR. I'd love to see PP run Superdrone again, there is no way it wouldn't sell out.
Click to expand...

Your right, PP would make a quality superdrol clone! And with an enhanced delivery system :D..

I would buy ;)
 
Im in for a few bottles myself.. My original stash that i bought when it was an invite only sale at midnight etc.. is almost all gone :(
 
i wish bold wasnt banned:(. LV Bold would = Awesome.
 
OnTheRoadTo said:
I don't see any reason not to - I actually was convinced to buy liver juice by the logs posted by guys using PP's Superdrone (They tend to stack it).

I'm also told that PP used the alpha isomer of superdrol only, as opposed to some other companies basically taking whatever they get - Thus the "bunk" SD clones many users have experienced. Personally, if I am going to do a superdrol cycle, I'm going to go to WAR. I'd love to see PP run Superdrone again, there is no way it wouldn't sell out.
Click to expand...

THERE ONLY IS ALPHA ISOMER SUPERDROL...


5b or not 5b? That is the question.
by
henryv
For a few years now, broscientists have been reading some of the commonly distributed information about steroidal nomenclature, including the following:

etioallocholan = 5a-androst = 'a skeleton' or 'a isomer'
etiocholan = 5b-androst = 'b skeleton' or 'b isomer'

and comparing it to the nomenclature listed on some superdrol clones, and the bro-mathematicians among them have been adding two and two and making five.

The etiocholan/etioallocholan info is accurate. Although to be fair, most people don't know what this means. Many will be aware that some steroids are substrates of (can be affected by) the 5-alpha reductase enzyme, which removes the delta-4 double bond (turning testosterone into DHT, for example). Few people are aware that there is also a 5b reductase enzyme, which exists in the liver in greater quantities than 5a-reductase. In fact, testosterone reduces in the liver via 5b-R and 5a-R in the ratio 87:13 in favour of the 5b isomer [1].

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Some bright-sparks noticed that certain brands of superdrol clones list the active ingredient as 2a,17a-dimethyl-etiocholan-3-one-17b-ol, believing this to indicate that the steroid inside is 5-b reduced, or a "b-isomer" of superdrol. Many even go so far as to use this as an explanation for cycles with these drugs that do not meet the expectations of the user, citing the "weaker b-isomer" as the excuse for the poor results.

Unfortunately this misconception has persisted for years, and shows no sign of dying.
The purpose of this article is to clearly and concisely demonstrate that there is no 5b-isomer of superdrol, and never has been.
The Science

Lets take a look at what happens when a steroid is 5a and 5b reduced.



These are structural diagrams. On the left is a "top-down" and a side view of 5a-androstane, on the right the same for 5b-androstane. Do you notice how the A-ring (left hand ring) of the 5a-reduced steroid is quite flat, in line with the rest of the rings, whereas the 5b-isomer is bent significantly? Lets take a look at what that means for androgen receptor binding, and therefore what effect it will have on the steroid's effectiveness.

The steroids that are best at binding with the androgen receptor are those that are flattest. Taking methyltrenbolone for example, the conjugated double bonds on the steroid's backbone make it extremely flat, and an excellent fit for the AR [2]. This is reflected in the anabolic and androgenic potency of the drug - it's one of the strongest ever created.

The conformational change involved in 5b-reduction makes the steroid anything but flat, and an extremely poor fit for the receptor. By way of an example, 5a-DHT has 173 times stronger binding affinity than 5b-DHT [3]. 5b-reduced steroids are effectively inactive.

If any superdrol clone was using a 5b-isomer of the methasteron molecule, it wouldn't be "weaker", it quite simply wouldn't work.

So what do 5b steroids do?

If the definition quoted above about "etiocholan = 5b isomer" is so prevalent, being part of a "sticky" thread on nearly every bodybuilding forum with a prohormone/steroid section, it must have some significance, right? There must be some 5b-steroids around. Well, there are, but they aren't anabolic steroids.

D4–3-ketosteroid 5ß-reductase, to give 5b-reductase it's proper title, serves two purposes. One is to effectively deactivate delta-4 sex steroids like testosterone as an intermediate step to excretion, and the other is in the conversion of cholesterol to bile acids.



Your body does an amazing number of things with cholesterol. It's the starting point for everything from the steroid hormones (including testosterone), to bile acids and Vitamins A, D, E and K, as well as shuttling it around the body to maintain cell membrane permeability and fluidity.
The only 5b-skeleton steroids you will encounter are the bile acids. When you eat, these acids are secreted into the intestine to help process dietary fats, and act as a sort of "natural pesticide", killing off some of the microorganisms that live inside us all to maintain a healthy gut flora.

The Rebuttal

One company in particular sells a lot of their superdrol clone, which is labeled "2a,17a di methyl etiocholan 3-one, 17b-ol". This company has a very good reputation in general, and tests every batch of every product pre- and post-capping with an independent third-party lab.

In response to the public questioning about their product (I presume), they asked the testing facility for a confirmation that the steroid tested was the 5a-isomer, and not the 5b-isomer. Here is the result:



^ 99% a-isomer. No b-isomer detected.

Don't believe me?

So how about some celebrity endorsement?

Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
to make the 5beta isomer would take an entirely different starting material that would be expensive and scarcely avaialable. I am not even sure if the reactions would go the same way if you started with the 5beta-androstane starting material (which would be something like etiocholanolone)

I would guarantee my nutsack that there has never been a 5beta-androstane version of superdrol on the market. All this issue ever was was confusion in nomenclature
[4]

Quote Originally Posted by Sldge
I think its more likely that this company doesnt know how to write the name correctly. I dont think anyone is making the 5b of superdrol, especially since superdrol raw material is easy to come by.
[5]

Quote Originally Posted by Serious Nutrition Solutions
We were the first company to label it as a 5b to the best of my knowledge. We were told that was the correct 'technical' way to state the compound on the label.

Ours was exactly the same as Superdrol. Testing confirmed it. However, it seems that at the time we were told to label it by the name we chose and that seems to be an error in which many other companies followed suit.
[5]

References
 
sanchezgreg18 said:
THERE ONLY IS ALPHA ISOMER SUPERDROL...


5b or not 5b? That is the question.
by
henryv
For a few years now, broscientists have been reading some of the commonly distributed information about steroidal nomenclature, including the following:

etioallocholan = 5a-androst = 'a skeleton' or 'a isomer'
etiocholan = 5b-androst = 'b skeleton' or 'b isomer'

and comparing it to the nomenclature listed on some superdrol clones, and the bro-mathematicians among them have been adding two and two and making five.

The etiocholan/etioallocholan info is accurate. Although to be fair, most people don't know what this means. Many will be aware that some steroids are substrates of (can be affected by) the 5-alpha reductase enzyme, which removes the delta-4 double bond (turning testosterone into DHT, for example). Few people are aware that there is also a 5b reductase enzyme, which exists in the liver in greater quantities than 5a-reductase. In fact, testosterone reduces in the liver via 5b-R and 5a-R in the ratio 87:13 in favour of the 5b isomer [1].

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Some bright-sparks noticed that certain brands of superdrol clones list the active ingredient as 2a,17a-dimethyl-etiocholan-3-one-17b-ol, believing this to indicate that the steroid inside is 5-b reduced, or a "b-isomer" of superdrol. Many even go so far as to use this as an explanation for cycles with these drugs that do not meet the expectations of the user, citing the "weaker b-isomer" as the excuse for the poor results.

Unfortunately this misconception has persisted for years, and shows no sign of dying.
The purpose of this article is to clearly and concisely demonstrate that there is no 5b-isomer of superdrol, and never has been.
The Science

Lets take a look at what happens when a steroid is 5a and 5b reduced.



These are structural diagrams. On the left is a "top-down" and a side view of 5a-androstane, on the right the same for 5b-androstane. Do you notice how the A-ring (left hand ring) of the 5a-reduced steroid is quite flat, in line with the rest of the rings, whereas the 5b-isomer is bent significantly? Lets take a look at what that means for androgen receptor binding, and therefore what effect it will have on the steroid's effectiveness.

The steroids that are best at binding with the androgen receptor are those that are flattest. Taking methyltrenbolone for example, the conjugated double bonds on the steroid's backbone make it extremely flat, and an excellent fit for the AR [2]. This is reflected in the anabolic and androgenic potency of the drug - it's one of the strongest ever created.

The conformational change involved in 5b-reduction makes the steroid anything but flat, and an extremely poor fit for the receptor. By way of an example, 5a-DHT has 173 times stronger binding affinity than 5b-DHT [3]. 5b-reduced steroids are effectively inactive.

If any superdrol clone was using a 5b-isomer of the methasteron molecule, it wouldn't be "weaker", it quite simply wouldn't work.

So what do 5b steroids do?

If the definition quoted above about "etiocholan = 5b isomer" is so prevalent, being part of a "sticky" thread on nearly every bodybuilding forum with a prohormone/steroid section, it must have some significance, right? There must be some 5b-steroids around. Well, there are, but they aren't anabolic steroids.

D4–3-ketosteroid 5ß-reductase, to give 5b-reductase it's proper title, serves two purposes. One is to effectively deactivate delta-4 sex steroids like testosterone as an intermediate step to excretion, and the other is in the conversion of cholesterol to bile acids.



Your body does an amazing number of things with cholesterol. It's the starting point for everything from the steroid hormones (including testosterone), to bile acids and Vitamins A, D, E and K, as well as shuttling it around the body to maintain cell membrane permeability and fluidity.
The only 5b-skeleton steroids you will encounter are the bile acids. When you eat, these acids are secreted into the intestine to help process dietary fats, and act as a sort of "natural pesticide", killing off some of the microorganisms that live inside us all to maintain a healthy gut flora.

The Rebuttal

One company in particular sells a lot of their superdrol clone, which is labeled "2a,17a di methyl etiocholan 3-one, 17b-ol". This company has a very good reputation in general, and tests every batch of every product pre- and post-capping with an independent third-party lab.

In response to the public questioning about their product (I presume), they asked the testing facility for a confirmation that the steroid tested was the 5a-isomer, and not the 5b-isomer. Here is the result:



^ 99% a-isomer. No b-isomer detected.

Don't believe me?

So how about some celebrity endorsement?

Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
to make the 5beta isomer would take an entirely different starting material that would be expensive and scarcely avaialable. I am not even sure if the reactions would go the same way if you started with the 5beta-androstane starting material (which would be something like etiocholanolone)

I would guarantee my nutsack that there has never been a 5beta-androstane version of superdrol on the market. All this issue ever was was confusion in nomenclature
[4]

Quote Originally Posted by Sldge
I think its more likely that this company doesnt know how to write the name correctly. I dont think anyone is making the 5b of superdrol, especially since superdrol raw material is easy to come by.
[5]

Quote Originally Posted by Serious Nutrition Solutions
We were the first company to label it as a 5b to the best of my knowledge. We were told that was the correct 'technical' way to state the compound on the label.

Ours was exactly the same as Superdrol. Testing confirmed it. However, it seems that at the time we were told to label it by the name we chose and that seems to be an error in which many other companies followed suit.
[5]

References
Click to expand...

that's what i'm talkin about sanchez............
"CLASS IN NOW IN SESSION"
take em' to school, my dude!

Seriously though, thanks for the enlightment and breakdown.:thumbsup:
 
Im about 2 sit down to a meal and dose 2.5mg SD with it, dam it is nice to be able to dose this low with Superdrol. You guys need to do this one last run!!!!
 
If PP decides to run some, they better run a small personal batch of 1-T Tren for me, or there will be big trouble for everyone.
 
I have 1 1/2 bottles of Superdrone. I can't wait to run some with Androhard at the end of this year. I also have a bottle of Tren-LV. So, I feel pretty much set till next summer. As long as PP keeps selling Androhard. Love that stuff.
 
one thing i've learned over the years is,

YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH SUPERDROL

so you guys should make some more
 
Im with unreal here. I have 3 different brands of clones and a couple bottles of the original that have been in my freezer for man years. My stock is dwindling. Please make more while its still legal!
 
UnrealMachine said:
one thing i've learned over the years is,

YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH SUPERDROL

so you guys should make some more
Click to expand...

ok this is one of the best ideas I have heard in many moons. A great supp by one of the most trusted names out there???? :32:
 
I want about 5-50 bottles. Somewhere in between ;)

I'll log it for ya! ;)
 
HereToStudy said:
Just grab 50, and use it as TRT. I swear, nothing bad could happen. :ntome:
Click to expand...

As your first executive decision repping for Primordial Performance, you should get the ball rolling on one last run, and sending me a bottle to run a sponsored log. Yes, I think that will boost you rather high in the company lol :deal:
 
SouthernCharm said:
As your first executive decision repping for Primordial Performance, you should get the ball rolling on one last run, and sending me a bottle to run a sponsored log. Yes, I think that will boost you rather high in the company lol :deal:
Click to expand...

Hey if I had the power to start production, I would be more worried about getting storage space for hoarding them :D
 
HereToStudy said:
Hey if I had the power to start production, I would be more worried about getting storage space for hoarding them :D
Click to expand...

Well fack! Who you gotta pay off around here to get some Superdrone LV???

Anyone willing to part with some send me a PM please ;)
 
please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please make another run,
I missed the first run, didn't feel ready to run something that potent, but now I'd LOVE to give some superdrol a try!
 
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