Guest viewing is limited

THE SUPPLEMENT GAME

drewbolic

New member
Found this blog and thought this was very interesting.Cause if your like me,it gets a little confusing with all the supps out there claiming to do this or that.

The Supplement Game ( An Article By Anthony Roberts )
Posted on May 1, 2009
Filed Under Anabolic Steroids, Buy Steroids
When I read the blog below I thought about a few things, first off it was pretty ballsy for AR to throw himself under the boat to prove the dysfunction of the supplement game. I also know of maybe 3 supplements all time that have been comparable to steroids ( mostly because they converted to ), but almost every supplement tries to make the same claim.
I also was informed of many responses , by the people that were pointed out. I have a lot of respect for the few that stood up and said yes I did that, but I am older , smarter, and don’t practice such things anymore. And then there is the many who deny, deny, and deny some more. We aren’t buying it.
Inside the nutritional supplement industry
Inside the nutritional supplement industry
Categories: Featured Articles, Other, Steroid News…, Steroid News…, Uncategorized | no responses

The nutritional supplement industry is lying to you every day. I’m going to expose how they do it - by telling you everything that goes on behind the scenes. Then I’m going to take you through step-by-step and expose all of the frauds, con-men, criminals, and liars…and when I’m done, there won’t be too many people left standing. If you’re wondering how I got into the nutritional industry, I’ll be frank and say that it’s because I was involved in the steroid world first. I built up a name by writing books and articles about anabolic steroids, and like a dozen (or more) people before me, I went into the supplement industry - most of the nutritional supplement industry is populated by people who crossed over from the steroid industry (or still swim in both pools)…from Bill Phillips to Bruce Kneller, we all got our start writing about steroids before we went into the nutritional industry.
First, I’ll let you in on some secrets about my own products (remember, I had four separate nutritional supplements on the market at one time, each with my name on the bottle).
In my own case, I was able to introduce a totally new herb to the nutritional market (Fadogia Agrestis a/k/a MyoGenX), without doing any safety trials or clinical research. All I had to do was read a study that said it boosted testosterone, and a bit of googling later I found out that it had been used for decades in Nigeria as a folk remedy to treat erectile dysfunction, and I was off and running. Hell, it’s been used for years in Nigeria - it probably won’t kill anybody. But the kicker is that the FDA would have had to prove that it was unsafe to have it pulled off the market - not the other way around. I didn’t have to prove it was safe at all.
Nice, huh? But those are the laws, and I followed them.
Now, let’s take a look at the advertising that we used for the product. First and foremost, the primary admin of EliteFitness.com (BigRickRock, a/k/a Rick Velez) was receiving 50% of my royalties to advertise the product. If you noticed him pimping it on the site, it’s because he was directly paid by Protein Factory (at my request) to do so. He receives other royalties and has other side deals worked out with different advertisers, but just keep in mind that money goes into his pocket to say something is good or advertise it on the forum.
Writing the advertising copy (the “ad-copy”) was another kettle of fish altogether. While I was writing it, I said:
1. Fadogia Agrestis has been shown in a medical study to increase testosterone
2. MyoGenX has Fadogia Agrestis in it
3. Testosterone has benefits A, B, C, etc….
However, because the laws are what they are, I can’t actually say MyoGenX has benefits A, B, C, etc…even though the advertisement was meant to lead you to (correctly) believe that MyoGenX will impart effects A, B, and C. In the end, people loved the product, it became Protein Factory’s #1 best seller on Bodybuilding.com, and I got some good feedback (and bloodwork) showing that it did increase testosterone. But I couldn’t say that in the ad-copy, even though that’s exactly what it did. And I didn’t have to make sure i was safe (which it was).That’s how the laws work.

But let’s just say I wanted to advertise it and say “Anthony Roberts says ‘MyoGenX feels like Sustanon’ ” - that would be legal, because it’s my opinion. Once again, the laws are retarded (although I never said it feels like Sustanon - but Biotest infamously said exactly thatabout one of their products, and Bill Phillips said one of his - HMB - felt like Deca). And of course, if I wanted to bottle up some steroids (depending on which ones I used, that haven’t been banned), and sell them as nutritional supplements, I could have done that too (which I did, a bit later on in my career - totally legally).
Of course, my story ended happily; I managed to hit a homerun with my first supplement idea ever. It didn’t make anyone die, people got great results, and copycats (including MuscleTech) soon used my idea. But MuscleTech hid their Fadogia amounts (which I presume to be ineffectively small) in a proprietary blend. A proprietary blend is a blend of compounds that the manufacturer doesn’t need to break down into exact amounts for labeling purposes. The law allowing this to be put into place was meant to protect intellectual property. Instead it allows manufacturers to “pixie dust” their products with ineffective doses, and still get to claim they have the ingredient on the label. Nearly every company in the nutritional field is guilty of this.
Labeling laws also allow people to make up names for their blends (often in an effort to make them sound like steroids), or to use obscure and outdated terms for ingredients, to fool the average consumer into thinking they’re getting something that they’re not. SARM-X by MHP’s label uses a term for DHEA that hasn’t been in use since the ’60s. It’s interesting to note that not only does this product do nothing, and still sell very well, but it can’t possibly work at all because the ingredients cancel each other out.
Now, let’s take a look at an even less honest way to do things.
When William Llewellynreleased his Arachidonic Acid product (called X-Factor), everyone was pretty excited about it - probably nobody more than the fine people over at Gaspari Nutrition, who licensed it from Mr. Llewellyn immediately, and became the first company to carry it in a product other than the manufacturer’s own. So what did Billy Llewellyn do? He quickly licensed it to Gaspari’s direct competitors also (it can be found in IDS Mass Tabs and Universal Animal Test) and even had a hand in helping to design at least one of these psuedo-clones of the (new) Gaspari Halodrol. Nice way to treat the people who helped you out, right? [Note: This is why half of the supplement industry does not care for Mr. Llewellyn]
Naturally, it gets worse, because a study came outwhich showed that Arachidonic Acid was no better than placebo (i.e. produced the same results as a sugar pill with no active ingredients). So, in effect, Mr. Llewellyn has been selling (licensing) a product that DOES NOTHING, and collecting royalties from three competing products for that product. Hilarious, right? Maybe not so funny if you’re one of those companies who have been paying him a fee for a worthless product, or even worse, wasting your own money on it.
But the funniest part is how he is directly misleading the consumer by picking and choosing which parts of the research he uses for his ad-copy. The actual study, when you look it up in the medical journal it was published in says:
CONCLUSION: AA supplementation during resistance-training may enhance anaerobic capacity and lessen the inflammatory response to training. However, AA supplementation did not promote statistically greater gains in strength, muscle mass, or influence markers of muscle hypertrophy.
Of course, the real conclusion (*the one I just showed you) is nowhere to be found in the ad-copy, or on the pages of Llewellyn’s site, where he talks about all of the researchdone on Arachidonic Acid. I would have thought the conclusion is kind of an important thing to include when you are bragging about all the research done on your product, right? Instead, through carefully plucking certain lines from the study, and omitting others, William Llewellyn has composed advertisements and made claims about his product that purposely lead the reader into thinking that the actual conclusion of the studies conducted on his product are quite different than they actually are. This is why the real conclusion is never used, or even hinted at, in any of his advertisements or articles.
Is he purposely deceiving his prospective customers by leaving out the part of the study that says his product does nothing more than a placebo? You tell me.
And then there’s Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals. They put real Xanax in their Benzanax bars, and advertised them as an “herbal alternative” - then they tried to blackmail a United States District Attorney and plotted to kill an FDA agent. Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Benzanax advertisements are still running in one of the best selling bodybuilding magazine in the world. And before I forget, one of the prosecutors in that case bullied the wife of one of the accused so viciously that she eventually collapsed and killed herself. This is what government officials are doing in your name - pressuring 27 year old women into killing themselves (oh…and then taking a higher paying job as a defense attorney).
And how about MuscleTech? Their first advertisements featured Greg Kovacs, advertised as the strongest man in the world. Check out some of his recent interviews, because he is very candid about telling us that 100% of the claims they made about him were outrageously false. Remember the timethey used a pregnant fitness model for their (pregnant) before and (non-pregnant) after photos? Remember that? Or how about the time Muscletech had their “research” studies doctored (*by Muscular Development authors, actually).
Even published medical studies are suspect when the nutritional industry pays for them. Ever notice how you see many of the same names, institutions, and universities on supplement studies? That’s because certain groups have a reputation for being “easy to work with” - meaning you’ll get the outcome you ask for. An inside source who has spoken to me on the condition of anonymity has revealed that he was in the room when Dr. Carlton Colker asked a representitive from Twinlab “What do you want the result of the study to be?” referring to an ongoing study on one of their nutritional products…and clearly indicating that he was going to skew the results in favor of the product being tested.
Oh…and before I forget, I should remind you that nearly every author for Muscular Development, is on at least some nutritional company’s payroll (or owns one) that advertises within the magazine itself. That’s the kind of bias and bullsh*t that dominates the bodybuilding magazine industry, and allows nutritional companies to lie to you on a constant basis. They control the flow of information, so they control what you do and do not see. It’s all biased and bogus - and Muscular Development is far from the only magazine doing this. One magazine even had their science editor caught taking bribes to write positive articles about Victor Conte’s nutritional (ZMA) product…and yes, this guy still writes for the magazine in question. This goes on every day - people are paid or bribed to lie to you about nutritional products.
When my 2perdrol supplement came out, I was thrilled because I combined an androgen (*a not-yet banned prohormone/anabolic/designer-steroid) with LCLT (L-Carnitine L-Tartrate), which increases androgen receptor activity - I had read about LCLT in a peer-reviewed medical journal article. I was less thrilled when I found out that the company who funded the study also manufactured LCLT. I can name a half dozen companies off the top of my head who tweak common ingredients just enough to patent them, run a study on the stuff, and then go around trying to sell it as a “new” product (what they don’t tell you is that it’s no better than the unpatentable ingredient left unchanged).
Then I came out with Nicolean - a topical (rub on your skin) nicotine/yohimbe/caffeine blend. It was sold as a cosmetic, which put it out of reach of any real government regulation. There’s loopholes inside loopholes - and people who learn to exploit them pretty easily (like me).
And then there’s Patrick Arnold - the man who did more good for the supplement industry than anyone else…and then followed it up by being the single most destructive force it’s ever seen. When Congress was gearing up to ban prohormones, Patrick Arnold was part of a lobbying group to “save” them, called the USFA. In reality, they had written legislation that if adopted would make virtually everything but 4-AD and 1-AD illegal, therby giving him a huge market advantage. He also stole Billy Llewellyn’s idea for 1-adione (patented it even though Bill discovered it first)…but that’s neither here nor there.
While Patrick was lobbying to save prohormones (his own), guess what happened? He turned out to be a steroid dealer. Oops. I wonder how that looked to Congress? That the head of this group trying to save prohormones was also a steroid dealer….it was a huge black eye to the entire industry.The rest is history.
Patrick’s detrimental effect is now reaching legendary proportions - he has a hisory of producing tainted supplements, some of which have caused athletes to lose millions of dollars when they tested positive. He’s even been raided by the DEA, and is managing to drag the companies who he licenses 6-OXO to (Gaspari Nutrition, etc…), as well as the companies who sell it (GNC, etc…) into lawsuits and Department of Justice actions. Naturally, none of this matters, because as many times as he produces a tainted supplement, he’s allowed to keep running a nutritional company. Hilariously, Patrick’s 6-OXO product was University tested, and found to produce no increases in muscle.
Need I remind everyone that there were widespread rumors about a Patrick Arnold GHB-and-booze-induced collapse at the MetRx symposium in 2000 (was it 2001?)…
Honestly, although Patrick Arnold has likely done more damage to the nutritional industry than anyone, he’s not the worst person in the industry. I’d have to reserve that honor for Ron Kramer- this is the BALCO snitch, who later moved on to the nutritional industry (he owns Thermolife), and has been caught trying to run a blackmail scam on nutritional companies.
Do you know where the best place to find tainted and spiked supplements (i.e. stuff that contains ingredients it shouldn’t)? Expos and trade shows (the Arnold Classic, etc…) where supplement companies give out free samples. It’s a perfect place for them to give out stuff that’s overdosed, or contains illegal ingredients (stimulants, banned steroids, etc…)- people get a sample, think it’s the best thing ever, then go buy a bottle of the regular stuff when they get home- and the FDA never, ever, tests samples given out at Expos and trade shows.
Are you getting the point yet? I’m hoping you see what this industry is really like, but if not, keep reading, because I’ve saved the kinds companies I hate the most for last.
SDI-Labs is a company that sells standard (and subpar) nutritional products named like anabolic steroids. As you can see from the picture on the right, they sell Winni-V, which is meant to sound like Winstrol-V (a veterinary version - hence the “V” - of Winstrol, an anabolic steroid). They’ve even gone so far as to photoshop a real box of Winstrol with their product name onto it, and place it next to a bottle of their sound-a-like garbage.
These guys are simply preying on stupid kids who want steroids but don’t know where to get them.
In 2007 they filed suitagainst Brian Clapp and his RoidStore.com (a/k/a BuySteroids.com, SteroidBuy.com, DiscountSteroids.com, etc..), company for ripping their scam-idea off. I worked on that case (was paid $1k for my research on the case), which was ultimately won by Roidstore (which is the company I did the work for). But the truth is that RoidStore was a direct attempt to rip off SDI-Labs idea…an internal document from RoidStore even says so. That same document also admits that the purpose of the site is to trick their customers. An FBI agent from Houston, speaking on the condition of anonymity, has told me that even though they have a solid case against Brian Clapp and RoidStore (Fraud, Mail Fraud, etc…), Federal District Attorneys in Houston may not take it, because they prefer prosecuting stuff that builds their career, and gets them promotions - ripping off wanna-be-steroid-buyers isn’t high on that list.
I wonder if upholding the law, and doing their jobs is high on their list? Better yet, I wonder if getting embarrassed publicly by my new book is high on their list? I hope so. Brian Clapp, has already managed to embarrass everyone fromDon Hooton, to his employees, and even his own family. So I guess the federal prosecutors and District Attorneys in Houston won’t mind being embarrassed also.
If you’ve made it this far, thanks a ton. Feel free to republish this anywhere you’d like, link to me, whatever…
If you want more, you’re SOL until Generation S comes out on October 15th. I’ve got 350 pages of absolute venom in store for every facet of the steroid industry - from UG labs, to nutritional companies, to bodybuilding rags, to the Government, to District Attorneys, to so-called-gurus…and when I’m done with these people, they’re going to have to check dental records on the bodies, because I’m not leaving anything behind.
I know some feel that AR throws people unnecessarily under the bus, but when these people are purposely duping the lifting community, then it is our duty to throw such people under the bus. There is way too much loyalty to scumbags in our community, I will ( to my last day) go after anyone who takes money to fool people and persuade them to use ****ty products. Why is it such a hard concept that any Guru or MOD or Admin’s loyalty should be to the community not a few scattered dirt bags. Those of us that write , have a responsibility to our readers to tell the truth and protect them to our best ability. So remember that we are not above the readers, we are merely servants of the community. So whoever has an issue with unmasking scammers and con artist , is no better then the scammers themselves.
I also read how Bill Roberts stepped up to the plate and admitted his own statements, that takes a lot of balls and self-respect, and for that I salute you.
If you have any comments or questions, please feel free to contact me at [email protected]. Also, we are still taking offers for advertising, anyone interested, please send your information to the e-mail address above.
 
I do recall feeling incredibly wierd after trying a variety of samples at the arnold classic... I couldn't even get a workout in afterwards... This is very interesting and will make me think twice before purchasing any supplement... I'll make sure to review studies myself, and look at who's publishing the the studies ;)
 
Hey Drewbolic thanks for posting this blog I found it very interesting and very informative
and I kind of knew some of this stuff was going on in the supplement industry even before reading this blog. If the author of this blog has a book out about what he discusses in the blog I would love to read it. Thanks again for good reading material.
 
CliffsNotes: There's a lot of lying and misrepresentation in the supplement industry, do plenty of research before you buy something.
 
This was a very good read, thanks! I have never heard of the author, but from this excerpt I can tell you he's right on as far as the shady stuff that goes down (I say this without regard to any specific company; those are his claims). The pixie dusted sample thing happens all the time; I know some specific companies who have admitted committing the act and some who still do, openly! Well, confidentially-openly, if that exists. Bah, politics.

Stick with lower key companies when you buy your supps, and most of all don't believe the hype.
 
Its simple. Not FDA approved, could be spiked, take your chance, shut up and deal with the outcome. Its called taking responsibility. ALRI spiked stuff and got caught. Some idiot "ODed" on Havoc and sued, it happens all the time.
I take every sup usually only after a long period of time it is out. Gives time to see if others react negative, it gets banned/pulled or any other situation.
I do apply for logs but i often only apply if i can research the ingredients first.

The goverment would make a ton of money off the supplement industry if they'd get on board. Hire more people for the FDA since its one of if not the most undersized unit in goverment based on amount of work they need to do. We may appreciate it some then.

Then we get into, well Alli was pulled for kidney failure issues i think, then there is endless commercials where it fixes your crooked eye but will cause a PLETHORA of negative sides.

I havent spoke out alot in awhile and this subject hit a spot with me.
rant over.:bryce:
 
The movie , "Bigger Stronger Faster" talks about proprietary blends being able to mask whats in the products... i dont take anything any more, i probly wasted $1,000+ when i was younger trying to get bigger. I dont even know what creatine to trust any more, i just hope the whey protein i take works. (EAS)
 
Its simple. Not FDA approved, could be spiked, take your chance, shut up and deal with the outcome. Its called taking responsibility. ALRI spiked stuff and got caught. Some idiot "ODed" on Havoc and sued, it happens all the time.
I take every sup usually only after a long period of time it is out. Gives time to see if others react negative, it gets banned/pulled or any other situation.
I do apply for logs but i often only apply if i can research the ingredients first.

The goverment would make a ton of money off the supplement industry if they'd get on board. Hire more people for the FDA since its one of if not the most undersized unit in goverment based on amount of work they need to do. We may appreciate it some then.

Then we get into, well Alli was pulled for kidney failure issues i think, then there is endless commercials where it fixes your crooked eye but will cause a PLETHORA of negative sides.

I havent spoke out alot in awhile and this subject hit a spot with me.
rant over.:bryce:

Im tired of people targeting the supplement industry, honestly.

You said it right, its about personal responsibility.

IMO, cigs and alcohol are far more dangerous and if there is any litigation towards ANYTHING it should be towards that stuff.
 
I loved "Bigger, Stronger, Faster". I am partial to the situation at hand though. I'm not a fan of Prohormones(I dont respond well to orals), but I have many friends who use them and enjoy the FDA loop holes on getting these products to the consumers. At the same time I think negatively on these some loop holes because of "pixie dusting". Should these people who scam us of our money be brought to justice? Yes and no. It is our duty personally to research products before we consume them. Do you go to the food store and buy spoiled milk, then take them to court because you forgot to check the date and got sick? Some people do, but in reality it's your own responsibility. If you cant read a few facts and logs, then what makes you think you are mature enough to buy a product and use it. In fact, what makes you think you even know what you're doing in the gym if you cant even do some research on what you're doing to the body? The power is in the hands of the people. If you dont agree with a product, then don't buy it.
 
I do recall feeling incredibly wierd after trying a variety of samples at the arnold classic... I couldn't even get a workout in afterwards... This is very interesting and will make me think twice before purchasing any supplement... I'll make sure to review studies myself, and look at who's publishing the the studies ;)

Interesting- but that is not indicative of ALL sports supplement cos. (and def. not indicative of how our company runs things); Oddly enough- I think he is actually right on some points, and there is factual basis to a good bit of what he says.

As far as spiking samples- that is pretty illegal...

We just take our samples out of normal production batches- and we have never had any issues....
 
big oil company's donate 100's of millions of dollars to university's doing research on alternative energy methods, tell me that's not corruption? in every field there is corruption- forums are our best hope, find you some friends you trust and compare notes on what products are good/effective and which ones are either not worth the price or are just plain bunk. to be honest i have tried 100's of different supps and most of them have been at least a little beneficial, and some are really good/exceptional.
 
big oil company's donate 100's of millions of dollars to university's doing research on alternative energy methods, tell me that's not corruption? in every field there is corruption- forums are our best hope, find you some friends you trust and compare notes on what products are good/effective and which ones are either not worth the price or are just plain bunk. to be honest i have tried 100's of different supps and most of them have been at least a little beneficial, and some are really good/exceptional.

How is every supplement you have tried been beneficial????
 
The only supplement i thought worked was BSN Cellmass, but that was such along time ago i probly didnt even know what i was doing and i probly didnt eat as much as i do now. I sometimes think of taking creatine, but i just dont have the money to waste if the product doesnt work.
 
Well, the thing is, if you think it works and you see changes and you have the money to spend, why not?

Placebo effect? Maybe. But if it helps, it helps. Even if it's motivation and psychological help to keep pushing you. If you don't think it works or if someone is not satisfied, well, just stop buying them.

Right? Everyone would be happy like that. I know I spend way too much in Supps, but I like them and I've seen changes from before I used and after, so why not, I'll work the extra hours to allow myself that privilege.
 
I agree completely on its the consumers responsibiltys to research and do some work to figure out whats in the products and whats out there that works. We people as a whole are lazy and expect everything to be handed to us (myself included alot of times) but I can tell you ill take time out of my day to figure out what im taking/spending my hard earned money on and whats in the product thats proven than the latter of "hey, iv got money to spend this said manufactor claims 34 pounds of muscle in 2 weeks, iv gotta have it!"

Im not opening up the "SX" arguement again but that was my same view, you take what you do on your own behalf. If you "take more" and get sick or od then that was your own fault for knowledgeably knowing your taking something that the fda doesnt have to look at and upping the dosage.

-my .02 cents
 
How is every supplement you have tried been beneficial????

geez, even in pre-school i was taught the difference between 'MOST' and 'ALL'. either it was mood/libido/energy/strength/motivation/leaner/fuller/aggression, but ALMOST every supp i have used provided a benefit of some kind. did they live up to expectations, well my expectations have dropped and are more realistic. don't expect miracles from supplements- they are after all just a way to 'supplement' a good diet and workout routine. it is up to you to do the work and not to expect miracles in a bottle.
 
geez, even in pre-school i was taught the difference between 'MOST' and 'ALL'. either it was mood/libido/energy/strength/motivation/leaner/fuller/aggression, but ALMOST every supp i have used provided a benefit of some kind. did they live up to expectations, well my expectations have dropped and are more realistic. don't expect miracles from supplements- they are after all just a way to 'supplement' a good diet and workout routine. it is up to you to do the work and not to expect miracles in a bottle.

I didnt ask for you to be a smart ass. It's a proven fact that many supplements are under dosed to the point where they wont affect you, some are proven that their ingredients have no affect on the body, or that they're just bogus. Sure it's not just placebo??
 
I didnt ask for you to be a smart ass. It's a proven fact that many supplements are under dosed to the point where they wont affect you, some are proven that their ingredients have no affect on the body, or that they're just bogus. Sure it's not just placebo??

True bro, but that is why one should make their own stacks(bulk base), knowledge is power. Yes, I agree there are PROVEN non effective raws which are ones to sway from. There are proven, I will say this anything that builds muscle, is usually not healthy. Most supps are designated for performance and not muscle building. Muscle building is mainly from foods(protein syntehesis/nitrogen retention/glycogen) and exogenous hormones. That should be common knowledge but unfortunately its not.....
 
Take like x-tren for example. It's an amazing supplement. I responded to it, almost everyone will, but I responded negatively. Nothing beneficial about a negative side. Now that's not the only product that's ever had some fault to it. Im just trying to prove a point. There is no possible way for one person to have benefits from almost every product they have tried. Hell, half the reason people dont feel anything is because they are not training correctly, lack of correct diet, or not dosing properly. I have been at fault a few times. It's just there is no way that someone can do everything perfectly everytime they take a new supplement and receive beneficial sides.
 
I didnt ask for you to be a smart ass. It's a proven fact that many supplements are under dosed to the point where they wont affect you, some are proven that their ingredients have no affect on the body, or that they're just bogus. Sure it's not just placebo??

e-form/6oxo/hdrol/primal male/blue print/testopro/no shotgun/powerful/ragnarok/methyl mass/cel's topical form and suppress-c/hemodraulix/redline/jet fuel/white flood/xtren/pmag/mmv2and t911-original versions/blue up stim formula/somnidren/cordygen5/citruvol/beta alanine/cit mal/diesel products/controlled labs have all been good/so has mst/stimx/vyper/clomidex/slingshot/smash fl. and on and on all worked for me.
i did not respond to jacked or any other geranium product or anabolic pump. also i don't get much from epi products. got some effect from act extreme but was disappointed, was also disappointed in formex-td is much better, imo!
so yeah, i would say i got something from MOST products i have used.
 
to be honest i have tried 100's of different supps and most of them have been at least a little beneficial, and some are really good/exceptional.

You make it out to seem as though you have tried almost every product. Chill out.
 
Like Smeton said, consider the source, HOWEVER, while I take what this guy says with a grain of salt (the article, not Smeton, LOL) you can't rule alot of it out. While I didn't read the whole thing, alot of his experience was based on him trying to get into a business. He was within the rules, well, because frankly there are grey areas and people take advantage of grey areas.

I will say, we never gave Jose Canseco any due when he came out shouting about baseball and steroids. Now look whats happened. I'm sure there is some certain relevancy, the question is how much. I'm sure it's more than people think and it'll be a cruel reality for some.

Lastly, alot of the supplements I take are proven. I have my staples, whey, creatine, bcaa's. I don't venture out of this circle too often. I only actually started to venture out when I joined this site. However, I try and base my next 'tryout' supplement with your folks' experience. We're all the lab rats unfortunately. Without regulation, it'll continue to be that way and it is our choice. While I don't condone steroid use, the 'dark side' consisted of formulas you knew what you getting into and how to prevent the sides. We have that in the supplement industry too but we dont know if the actual ingredients are going to do what they were intended for! Legality aside, sometimes I think it may be a better option.

I love this game; it all boils down to the gym and your inner circle. I've always enjoyed feeling good, pride, and all the comraderie. While supplements/drugs help, they aren't the tell all and if both just totally dissappeared you'd still find me in the power rack. I can't say that for some. What are YOU in it for?!?

God bless yall, just my 2cent rant!
 
You make it out to seem as though you have tried almost every product. Chill out.

1st you ask me to prove a negative. then you misquote me. then you call me a smartass. then you tell me to chill. geez, man if you don't like supps THEN DON'T BUY THEM!
btw-i have tried many, more products than that and will probably try many, more.
 
1st you ask me to prove a negative. then you misquote me. then you call me a smartass. then you tell me to chill. geez, man if you don't like supps THEN DON'T BUY THEM!
btw-i have tried many, more products than that and will probably try many, more.

BigT, that testopro got you moody bro! LOL j/k

Or- maybe it was Coach Caldwell!?
 
When did I ever say I didn't enjoy supplements? When did I ever ask for you to prove a negative? You were in fact being a smartass and you do need to chill out. Who is doing the "misquoting"? You have had benefits from "most" and you have tried "100's" of supplements. I wanted to know how that was possible. But hey, you must be the exception to every negative side effect.
 
When did I ever say I didn't enjoy supplements? When did I ever ask for you to prove a negative? You were in fact being a smartass and you do need to chill out. Who is doing the "misquoting"? You have had benefits from "most" and you have tried "100's" of supplements. I wanted to know how that was possible. But hey, you must be the exception to every negative side effect.

have a nice day.:outtahere:
 
It is risk vs. reward and I'll take my chances.

I'll do what little I can (inconsequential though it may be) to keep the government out of the supplement industry. Word of mouth on boards like this has been very effective at weeding out bunk products and spawning entrepreneurship from honest folks who want to make good products. We do not need the FDA involved in this.
 
You make it out to seem as though you have tried almost every product. Chill out.

Sounds like your the one that needs to chill out bro, hes entitled to say what he feels and your trying to knock him for not saying what you wont him to say. You said that you didnt respond well to x-tren and there are a thousand that will say they did. Stop trying to pick a fight son.
 
Sounds like your the one that needs to chill out bro, hes entitled to say what he feels and your trying to knock him for not saying what you wont him to say. You said that you didnt respond well to x-tren and there are a thousand that will say they did. Stop trying to pick a fight son.

Omg dude atleast quote me right. I wanted to know how its possible to respond so positively to almost every supplement he has tried. It's nearly impossible.

As far as my comment about X-tren I said, "Take like x-tren for example. It's an amazing supplement. I responded to it, almost everyone will, but I responded negatively. Nothing beneficial about a negative side. Now that's not the only product that's ever had some fault to it. Im just trying to prove a point."

Almost everyone will respond to it because it is a potent compound. I never once said that there are a "thousand who will say they did". I was trying to differ wether or not he meant he responded to most but didnt always get positive sides, or if he was in fact, stating that he always gets positive sides.

No I was not intentionaly looking for a fight with, TheBigT. I was trying to understand what he was making his statement about. Did the arguement get heated? Yes. Did I have a part in that? Yes.

So no, I'm not looking for a fight but if someone wants to chime in then they might want to get their facts right.
 
If someone can tell me why A. Roberts doesn't have the best reputation I'd appreciate it. I've always got good info from him. I'm just looking for more info from the other side of the fence, so to speak.
 
Its funny because by "Supplements" all i think about are the different creatine's and NO's, different stuff like Gakic and all that! I dont think of steroids!!! I think of what i can go into GNC and buy... And its sad how the industry takes people that are on steroids and put them on the bottles of Leukic and Gakic and Cellmass and all those products that try to make people think thats all they need to get as massive as them!!!
 
It does seem like people are jumping more on steroids rather then the legal stuff that is sold falsely advertised by people on Steroids that companys make millions and millions on while pixie dusting!!!!!!!!!!
 
X-tren is not a supplement. Wtf is wrong with you people.

Are you kidding me? How is it not a supplement? Testosterone Cypionate is a ****ing supplement.

sup·ple·ment (spl-mnt)

Something added to complete a thing, make up for a deficiency, or extend or strengthen the whole
 
Are you kidding me? How is it not a supplement? Testosterone Cypionate is a ****ing supplement.

sup·ple·ment (spl-mnt)

Something added to complete a thing, make up for a deficiency, or extend or strengthen the whole

Thank you for responding to that. After I facepalmed I was gonna get irritated and respond back.
 
I think what T is trying to say and I agree whole heartedly that if you choose what supplements you use very carefully and do some research, use trusted companies etc... then a large portion of the supps you use will be somehow beneficial. There were no surprises for me in that article, it's all the "usual suspects".

In the early days I wasted a lot of money on supps and almost nothing I tried worked. When I got more selective and found the right place (AM) to do my research, that changed dramatically.
 
I think what T is trying to say and I agree whole heartedly that if you choose what supplements you use very carefully and do some research, use trusted companies etc... then a large portion of the supps you use will be somehow beneficial. There were no surprises for me in that article, it's all the "usual suspects".

In the early days I wasted a lot of money on supps and almost nothing I tried worked. When I got more selective and found the right place (AM) to do my research, that changed dramatically.

thanks, you are right- a lot depends on being selective, and choosing reputable company's. if you look carefully at my list of supplements they all are tried and true.
on another note, i never said i got the benefits claimed by the manufacturer, only that i got some noticeable benefit from them.
 
What it comes down to is us. Obviously everyones body is different and will respond differently to different blends however,at the end of the day companies will push a product if it works or not. Do your research, read logs(plural), and look up ingredients. Someone said earlier, this is why we are all here, for feedback and unbiased reviews.
 
Back
Top