Keepin' it Unreal: Sust, Mast, SD-1 Pseudo-Log

I have heard of alot of people lowering their estrogen too much and stopping gains in strength and mass.
 
hman85 said:
I have heard of alot of people lowering their estrogen too much and stopping gains in strength and mass.
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Yeah I've heard that before and I've been using a ton of letro so it is something I've considered. But my summer cycle for instance, also used letro the whole cycle, and made sick sick gains.

This cycle I've had to use more than usual, as the nipple puffyness and sensitivity just wouldn't go away. I've been rocking 1.25mg ED for about 2 weeks now. Based on anecdotal evidence, this should destroy my estrogen levels, destroy my gains, destroy my joints, and destroy my libido. But while on SD the gains were still awesome, and my libido is still very elevated, and my joints are fine. Estrogen has been very slow to lower, I am just now losing the nipple tenderness that I've had for about the entire cycle. As soon as it is completely gone, I am going to lower the dose everyday until i hit the minimum point again.

I have no reason why I needed so much letro just to stop nipple tenderness. The way I am responding to it isn't normal... My friend used the letro from the same bottle and I know it worked well for him, he used much less and it worked instantly to stop his puffy nips.

Idk what to say. I don't seem to respond normally to the compounds.

EDIT: after thinking about this for a long, long time, and reading old posts of mine, etc. I have decided that I have a tendency to completely overanalyze everything. I also have a tendency to jump to conclusions. I concluded that I should stop overthinking everything and just focus on diet and training because in the end that's everything.
 
UnrealMachine said:
Yeah I've heard that before and I've been using a ton of letro so it is something I've considered. But my summer cycle for instance, also used letro the whole cycle, and made sick sick gains.

This cycle I've had to use more than usual, as the nipple puffyness and sensitivity just wouldn't go away. I've been rocking 1.25mg ED for about 2 weeks now. Based on anecdotal evidence, this should destroy my estrogen levels, destroy my gains, destroy my joints, and destroy my libido. But while on SD the gains were still awesome, and my libido is still very elevated, and my joints are fine. Estrogen has been very slow to lower, I am just now losing the nipple tenderness that I've had for about the entire cycle. As soon as it is completely gone, I am going to lower the dose everyday until i hit the minimum point again.

I have no reason why I needed so much letro just to stop nipple tenderness. The way I am responding to it isn't normal... My friend used the letro from the same bottle and I know it worked well for him, he used much less and it worked instantly to stop his puffy nips.

Idk what to say. I don't seem to respond normally to the compounds.
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You cannot judge superdrol to test at all. They are 2 completely different beasts . I know it's not the same but look up what most farmers use to bulk up there cows, estradiol! So estrogen has it's place in mass gains and strength. Puffy nips are gonna happen on test anyways unless you kill all the estrogen. So you have to find the happy medium. Just cause they are puffy doesn't mean you are gonna get gyno.I understand what your trying to do just keep that in mind.Your bloat will subside after the cycle and the mast will keep you less bloated anyways. just my 2 cents
 
well i've been taking the letro because the nips aren't just puffy but sensitive to the touch and painful when pressure is applied. I have active gyno lumps under both nipples now and I can tell when it's active vs. being dormant. With estrogen in check i don't think they should be painfully sensitive hence letro until that level of sensitivity subsides. When that goes away, the puffiness goes away.

It is time for me to start dropping the leto dose though, and I will. But I don't think this is what's stopping my gains. I was taking letro most of the time i was on SD, with 1.25mg ed during the last week of SD, and gains were good.

I think if my estrogen levels were truly low enough to cause decreased gains, they would also be low enough to give me joint problems and libido problems. In fact, I think those problems usually occur first with low estrogen, and it takes having ~0 estrogen to destroy your gains.
 
Could it have anything to do with your low carb diet?
 
My diet is fine, i made natural gains on this diet before the cycle started. Adding carbs is only going to add fat. I've made more gains on less carbs before (over summer).

Really there's no need for rampant speculation. I ran test before at a high dose and barely made gains so I'm not very surprised. That's why this cycle originally called for insane doses. I'm probably going to bump them up next week even though I just said I would keep them here.
 
refeed days i aim for 600g carbs starting right after depletion workout, usually ends up closer to 500. protein from lean meat and protein powder, fats as low as possible. Protein usually ends up in the 200-250g range. After 6pm switch to complex carbs

keto days, no carbs. 6 meals. Lots of meat, always chicken and steak. Peanuts + protein powder are my "shakes." 350p/<50c/~175f
 
UnrealMachine said:
refeed days i aim for 600g carbs starting right after depletion workout, usually ends up closer to 500. protein from lean meat and protein powder, fats as low as possible. Protein usually ends up in the 200-250g range. After 6pm switch to complex carbs

keto days, no carbs. 6 meals. Lots of meat, always chicken and steak. Peanuts + protein powder are my "shakes." 350p/<50c/~175f
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im having a hard time on refeed days getting away from fats :(
 
Day 38, 225 lbs (+7)

Today I bumped the sust up to 1.4mL per inject, it's 350mg MWF = 1050mg ew

So currently on 1050mg Sustanon EW + 600mg Mast EW. 1.6g of roids, coool.

Trained BACK

My workout was weird. My vascularity was good, my pump was great. But my recovery felt pretty average, and my strength was down from last week. Definitely reminiscent of my last time on test, it seems like expecting gains far beyond natural gains is expecting too much.

But that's why the cycle is going to go into some "fun" doses. Maybe 1g+ is too much for others but my response to steroids has generally been quite atypical. This reminds me again of Epistane, which kicked in instantly giving me good pumps and vascularity, 24/7 muscle hardness, could tell it was working, but didn't get any gains off of it. I think my receptors are weird or something. Anyway I'm going to see if i can counter this with obscene doses.


I did feel better after the workout when I did some flexing in the mirror, i'm not looking bigger or leaner really but I am looking big and most definitely SOLID.
 
UnrealMachine said:
refeed days i aim for 600g carbs starting right after depletion workout, usually ends up closer to 500. protein from lean meat and protein powder, fats as low as possible. Protein usually ends up in the 200-250g range. After 6pm switch to complex carbs

keto days, no carbs. 6 meals. Lots of meat, always chicken and steak. Peanuts + protein powder are my "shakes." 350p/<50c/~175f
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Are you trying to gain weight or not?
 
hman85 said:
Are you trying to gain weight or not?
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I'd like to get stronger while slowly losing bodyfat. I'd rather get stronger than bigger, my size is good, i'm trying to improve density. I figured a long test/mast cycle would be a good way to go about it.
 
I am really enjoying the frequent updates to your psuedo log. LOL

Hopefully the added doses treat you right and I guess you just don't respond like most. At least you will always have super (hope you stocked up).
 
Day 43, 228 lbs (+10)

Got through the holidays, some extra calories, some extra lifting, was fun

Not much has changed. I have maintained about 90% of the gains I got from SD which is pretty cool because it's usually harder to keep them. The last 2 weeks without SD have really just been maintenance of SD gains, basically lost about a rep on my major lifts but still much stronger than pre-cycle. I'm onto week 7 now and hoping to get some strength gains but it's still slow going.

I'm at 1050mg sustanon ew, 600mg masteron ew, and 50mcg of T3 ed

the effects I'm noticing are moderate increase in muscle hardness and pump, slightly better vascularity, some cramping has occurred when dehydrated, & strong libido + more oily skin on my face (but frequent washing has cleared up any acne problems). After dosing lots of letro my nipples are feeling more normal and I am now dosing letro at 2 drops everyday just to keep estrogen low enough.

My weight isn't moving and neither is strength. I imagine it's enough just to maintain the SD gains, at least I am rather big and strong at this point, but in the next few weeks I'd like to get back to gaining. With my doses I should be able to, but as with my last time on test, i think the gains will be minimal, and very slow.

Eventually i will come to focus more on leaning out and achieving that solid look I wanted.
 
crazyfool405 said:
Changes in diet will vary. Updated pics are necessary but I got a few things up my sleeve for him
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Cool, I'm curious to see how low the carbs will be. Since he will still be on cycle, I would think the refeeds could decrease and still not have to worry about catabolism. ??
 
The refeeds aren't to prevent catabolism. That's the great thing about ketones...

Refeed is to ensure optimal hormone levels for fat burning as well as to refill glycogen stores

Depending on what he wants there may be little to kno change for recomp. And some fun yet suckish stuff for cutting
 
crazyfool405 said:
The refeeds aren't to prevent catabolism. That's the great thing about ketones...

Refeed is to ensure optimal hormone levels for fat burning as well as to refill glycogen stores

Depending on what he wants there may be little to kno change for recomp. And some fun yet suckish stuff for cutting
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Cool, I'm interested to see the cutting diet.

In your opinion would there be a difference in a recomp diet while on cycle compared to a recomp diet off cycle?

This may need to go to PM's. I dont want to clog UM's thread.
 
Smiley said:
Remember that the 50mcg of T3 will also slow any gains.
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true. I should still be able to make some kind of strength increases with 1.6g of gear ew but I have the curse of not responding very well, this is probably how normal people feel on 400test/300 mast, some modest hardness and vascularity and enough anabolic power to maintain gains made off the jumpstart but not enough power to add much more.

just being able to keep the gains from SD is something substantial enough, as I'm used to bulking w/ SD then seeing the strength evaporate like ethanol on a hot day. Repping 3 plates on bench and 4 plates on squats is a strength level i'm pretty happy with, I always want more of course but strength has been harder for me to develop than mass so for me i'm pretty strong now.

When it comes to focusing a bit more on leaning out, that's where I drop the sust dose a little, jack up the masteron dose a bit, and beyond that what's more imperative than a change in diet (which is already pretty clean and modest w/ carbs) is doing a lot of extra cardio. I call myself endo/mesomorph, I can't "lean out" on any combination of diet/roids/lifting without adding in a lot of cardio. Finding a way to do more cardio without sacrificing lifting sessions will be the biggest obstacle.
 
Do you lift in the AM or PM?

You could try fast HIIT in the AM, then weights in the PM (followed by low-intensity cardio if required) however Im not sure whether your diet is taylored to this.
 
jakellpet said:
Do you lift in the AM or PM?

You could try fast HIIT in the AM, then weights in the PM (followed by low-intensity cardio if required) however Im not sure whether your diet is taylored to this.
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AM

ideally i would go to the gym twice a day as I could make some rapid progress if i started to do a cardio session every evening (as I usually have no carbs starting in the afternoon, i'd be burning fat pretty well).

But going to the gym twice a day means going through 14 sets of workout clothes a week, it means 2 showers everyday, it means a lot more time and travel time, and to be honest when the evenings roll around and it's 6pm and it's cold and dark, i don't have the energy or motivation to go through all that.

And even if i did, i rarely have the time... I could go to the gym twice a day over the summer, that was fun, but these days it's not gonna happen
 
Unreal, how many weeks do you have left, around 3?

Those SD are very solid, just based on the PR's, not to mention the weight gained seems to look like lean muscle and no bloat, as far as I can see.

Standing where you are now, things may definitely slow down, but I'm confident you can put on even just a few more lbs of lean mass, and make gradual kicks in strength. Though this is all gradual, aside from the shutdown factor, PCT should be relatively smooth as these gradual, lean gains don't seem to be something that will fade easy. I think the final product will not only be very rewarding, but permanent. Keep it up.
 
Day 46, 229 lbs (+11)

Well into week 7 now. How many weeks do I have left? A lot more than 3, lol, the original outline calls for 14 weeks. At the rate I'm using gear I have a while left yet, quite a while.

It's just getting started really. I wasn't getting much off 750 test. Since bumping to 1050mg sust ew I've been feeling it more, better pumps, better hardness, and libido has increased. 750 sust was definitely weaker than the 700mg of test prop ew I had done before, must be all the ester weight on the decanoate. Now up at 1050 it's stronger and I'm feeling very solid.

Still haven't made any gains exactly, my strength on my main lifts (bench, squats) is still down about a rep since getting off the SD, the strength on all my 2ndary lifts is as high as it can be without making any PRs, so basically I'm about as strong as I've ever been on every exercise

TRAINING
did ARMS today. Strength wasn't up but I did some new exercises and tied old PR's for instance 60*6 then 55*8 on db concentration curls w/ clean form. Triceps, the strength wasn't up, but i noticed better recovery.
More importantly than the recovery though, is that I noticed a HUGE pump. Even off cycle i get a huge pump on arm day but this was a pump that I can only compare to methyl orals, it was sick, and after my workout I did my flex sess and looked very filled out.

man 1g of test is where the fun begins.

i'll see about doing more, depends on if i start getting my strength gains or not
 
I would guess that glycogen weight would be lower from test/mast vs. superdrol at pretty much any dose too.
 
Looking great man. And it's obvious that you have a high tolerance to AAS so good call on the sust. Keep the gains coming brother! Hopefully on 1g+ test you will smash those PR's yet
 
jakellpet said:
unreal, in hindsite, so you think it was a good strategy to ramp up to 1g test?
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could have started here, but I like to feel out the dose/gain curve for myself, for future reference.

I am glad I didn't waste time with less than 750... I'm feeling a lot more in week 7 than week 5 and 6.
 
Looks like things are starting to take off...right on. It can only get better from here.
 
UnrealMachine said:
could have started here, but I like to feel out the dose/gain curve for myself, for future reference.

I am glad I didn't waste time with less than 750... I'm feeling a lot more in week 7 than week 5 and 6.
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word up. im glad your feeling it alittle better. hey, lets just go 1.5g sust! haha. im sure if i ever run test again....i WONT start at 500. so 750 and up. good call on the dosages broham
 
You guys have to remember these aren't doses every one should abide by.

Unreal is well. Unreal. 750 is a nice dose with test. 500 is plenty for some. My sweetspot is 700 from my experience.

Everyone should start at the low end and work up if need be. But just because u don't feel it doesn't mean its not working. That on cycle feeling is different for everyone
 
You guys have to remember these aren't doses every one should abide by.

Unreal is well. Unreal. 750 is a nice dose with test. 500 is plenty for some. My sweetspot is 700 from my experience.

Everyone should start at the low end and work up if need be. But just because u don't feel it doesn't mean its not working. That on cycle feeling is different for everyone
 
You guys have to remember these aren't doses every one should abide by.

Unreal is well. Unreal. 750 is a nice dose with test. 500 is plenty for some. My sweetspot is 700 from my experience.

Everyone should start at the low end and work up if need be. But just because u don't feel it doesn't mean its not working. That on cycle feeling is different for everyone
 
unreal,

i know youll agree the usual post-lift bowl is always great but i'm about to let you know what the outcome will be @ the gym with a pre-workout stack of universal shock therapy and pot...haha, this will be an awful mistake

felt it was worth posting for a laugh
 
i understand some people are non or low responders.. it also depends on body weight etc. although i do know some BB's who say there is distinct difference between 1g and 500 mg of test when it comes to the feeling or results
 
yeah honestly i definitely think i'm way far away from normal with response, i made 0 gains on epi, hdrol/prostanozol, and trenadrol when using PH's, only SD/PP and Tren have seemed strong enough to actually impart gains. So my testosterone dose is way past normal for the response i'm getting.

I don't know the cause exactly but i can say I gained extremely well when i started lifting weights and most supplements and stimulants seem to not work or just seem too weak (most stims)
 
17amethyl said:
unreal,

i know youll agree the usual post-lift bowl is always great but i'm about to let you know what the outcome will be @ the gym with a pre-workout stack of universal shock therapy and pot...haha, this will be an awful mistake

felt it was worth posting for a laugh
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i haven't had as much success with that one but good luck. Def. increases mind muscle connection but lowers my intensity.
 
i really dont know my exact measurements, it's awkward to measure on my own, don't have the proper tape, i've tried the string thing but the standard deviation between measurements is too high for me to take them seriously.

When I've done the string measurements in the past it was like 26.something on my quads, 17. something on my calves, 14.something high on my forearms... my chest was almost 46 and my arms have been anywhere from 17.5 to 18.3 depending on my BF level

Haven't measured in a while so i dunno really. Probably not too far off from those numbers though.

My workout today was nice, i'm not exactly gaining but I think with the test at 1g and the t3 at 50mcg I am starting to get exactly what I wanted w/ this cycle, a very slow recomp. I can say that I am looking very solid. Going to get pictures up when my workout partner doesn't flake out on me
 
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